Introduction and question
dblebach5 <[email protected]>
Hi!!
I wanted to introduce myself and ask a question. My name is Leslie
Bachner. I have been married for 14 1/2 years and have 3 children.
The oldest is 16 almost 17, middle is 13, and the youngest is 1. My
children have always been homeschooled. My daughter (oldest) is a
book worm. I taught her how to read using the Spalding phonograms
and she took off and never looked back. She has been a breeze to
homeschool. The only rule I have had is that for every fictional
book that she checked out from the library she had to check out 3 non-
fiction and a biography. My son, on the other hand, struggled to
learn how to read. He hit the magical "time to learn how to read
age" and so off we went.... right into a brick wall. By the time he
would put one phonogram together he had forgotten what the previous
one was. So, we quit. He didn't read his first real "book" until
about 1 1/2 years ago. He started with the Lord of the Rings
trilogy. He loves reptiles and I have encouraged that (and the study
of anything else he wanted). It took me a long time to "come out of
the closet", the unschooling closet that is. I struggled with
feeling bound to all those books, guilty that I couldn't accomplish
it. All I wanted to do was hang out with my kids. So, here comes my
question. Because my son hasn't been the reader that my daughter is
he is sorely lacking in spelling and grammar skills. Trying to get
Math done ( I can't figure out how to unschool that) is like pulling
teeth. I am beginning to feel like I am failing at homeschooling him
and feel that I could use some advice and encouragement. Well, sorry
this was so long........I look forward to participating with the
group.
Leslie
I wanted to introduce myself and ask a question. My name is Leslie
Bachner. I have been married for 14 1/2 years and have 3 children.
The oldest is 16 almost 17, middle is 13, and the youngest is 1. My
children have always been homeschooled. My daughter (oldest) is a
book worm. I taught her how to read using the Spalding phonograms
and she took off and never looked back. She has been a breeze to
homeschool. The only rule I have had is that for every fictional
book that she checked out from the library she had to check out 3 non-
fiction and a biography. My son, on the other hand, struggled to
learn how to read. He hit the magical "time to learn how to read
age" and so off we went.... right into a brick wall. By the time he
would put one phonogram together he had forgotten what the previous
one was. So, we quit. He didn't read his first real "book" until
about 1 1/2 years ago. He started with the Lord of the Rings
trilogy. He loves reptiles and I have encouraged that (and the study
of anything else he wanted). It took me a long time to "come out of
the closet", the unschooling closet that is. I struggled with
feeling bound to all those books, guilty that I couldn't accomplish
it. All I wanted to do was hang out with my kids. So, here comes my
question. Because my son hasn't been the reader that my daughter is
he is sorely lacking in spelling and grammar skills. Trying to get
Math done ( I can't figure out how to unschool that) is like pulling
teeth. I am beginning to feel like I am failing at homeschooling him
and feel that I could use some advice and encouragement. Well, sorry
this was so long........I look forward to participating with the
group.
Leslie
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
Hi Leslie,
Welcome to the list!
I just realized that I may have been a little rough in my reply to you, but
you're making some assumptions about what you're doing that,
well... Please. I want to encourage you, but I really feel the need to
point some stuff out.
affect how you think, and ask, did you really *teach* her to read, or was
she just ready to learn it?
a ratio for the kind of books I was 'allowed' to check out. Why do you
want to make this rule for her?
age'? Is there only one of those ages?
comics. My 16 year old likes teen-confession and poetry books. We listen
to Lord of the Rings on CD during long car trips. Even *I* don't like to
read LoR in paper. Snooooooooze. Good for him for liking it so much.
You still read out loud to him, right? To all your kids, right?
maybe? You're demanding your daughter read certain types of books and
(later in the message) you can't seem to find the math in your life. You
aren't trusting that your son will someday find it important to improve his
grammar/spelling. It's great that you're started on the pathway to
unschooling, and I want to encourage you to continue to plow on through
until you reach it, but I'm hoping you're open to seeing that, well, it's a
work in progress? (like many of us.)
that you're one of those folks! (grin) Hey, without a sense of humor,
we'd all be fried by now, eh?
Have you tried untying yourself?
up to THEM. You're just there to throw interesting things in their
pathways, play taxi and talk with them.
hang out with your kids! Go to movies! Go to the library and pick out
WHATEVER they want! Hang upside down from the monkey bars! Eat Ice Cream
with Lots of Toppings! Learn from them. Fer'gosh'sake. Follow your
instincts, not that 'we-should-be-learning-x-y-z' rubbish.
it became important to him. he worked at it and what do you know, within a
day, he was fully potty 'trained'. No mistakes, no rushing here and there,
just, done. When your son thinks spelling is important, he'll start paying
attention and spell correctly. If I thought it was important for YOU to
learn Lithuanian, but you didn't think it was important, how much effort
would you put into learning Lithuanian? Probably not a lot. Until, of
course, *you decided* you wanted to go to Lithuania. See what I
mean? (note the emphasis on *you decided* as opposed to it being imposed
on you.)
to the size of the attached root, whether they're incisors, molars... okay,
okay. I'm sorry, kinda, but not a whole lot. It's one of my pet peeves.
How can you NOT see the math in everyday life? Don't your kids have to buy
things? Figure out how many of a something will fit into another
something? Cook? Tally their money? Know if they have enough money for a
movie AND popcorn? Figure how many seconds you've been on the phone while
they've been waiting? and what's that in nano-seconds? There's math
EVERYWHERE. Maybe you could stop trying to figure out how to unschool it,
and try to figure out how it's *already* being unschooled?
you're sending your kids mixed messages. You're not really
unschooling. Not really. not yet.
Have you read unschooling.com and sandradodd.com? Go and read 'em. Think
of it as your homework (grin) Lay off the kids completely for a while (as
if they were 'decompressing' from public school) do whatever it is they
might be interested in doing and (you) spend some time talking about this
and that with folks on the unschooling boards and this list. Don't try to
do ANYTHING schoolish, and that includes math or that library thing you
make your daughter do.
When you have read at least a thousand posts (maybe more) and have gotten
completely mad at three different people over how we don't know what the
heck we're talking about, then finish being mad 'cause you see what we
might have meant, THEN go back to the kids. You'll probably still be
sending them mixed messages, but maybe they'll be a little less mixed and
you'll feel a little less 'failured'.
haven't scared you off entirely.
Not everyone's as cranky as I am right now. (smile)
HeidiWD
Welcome to the list!
I just realized that I may have been a little rough in my reply to you, but
you're making some assumptions about what you're doing that,
well... Please. I want to encourage you, but I really feel the need to
point some stuff out.
>book worm. I taught her how to read using the Spalding phonogramsI'm going to mess with your linguistics a little because they really do
>and she took off and never looked back.
affect how you think, and ask, did you really *teach* her to read, or was
she just ready to learn it?
>She has been a breeze toWow, what a bummer. I'd hate it if someone tried to tell me I had to have
>homeschool. The only rule I have had is that for every fictional
>book that she checked out from the library she had to check out 3 non-
>fiction and a biography.
a ratio for the kind of books I was 'allowed' to check out. Why do you
want to make this rule for her?
>My son, on the other hand, struggled toHow did he show you that it was the 'magical time to learn how to read
>learn how to read. He hit the magical "time to learn how to read
>age" and so off we went....
age'? Is there only one of those ages?
>right into a brick wall. By the time heThat's quite a 'book' to start with. My 13 year old likes Garfield
>would put one phonogram together he had forgotten what the previous
>one was. So, we quit. He didn't read his first real "book" until
>about 1 1/2 years ago. He started with the Lord of the Rings
>trilogy.
comics. My 16 year old likes teen-confession and poetry books. We listen
to Lord of the Rings on CD during long car trips. Even *I* don't like to
read LoR in paper. Snooooooooze. Good for him for liking it so much.
You still read out loud to him, right? To all your kids, right?
>He loves reptiles and I have encouraged that (and the studyMight you still be working your way out of that durned closet,
>of anything else he wanted). It took me a long time to "come out of
>the closet", the unschooling closet that is.
maybe? You're demanding your daughter read certain types of books and
(later in the message) you can't seem to find the math in your life. You
aren't trusting that your son will someday find it important to improve his
grammar/spelling. It's great that you're started on the pathway to
unschooling, and I want to encourage you to continue to plow on through
until you reach it, but I'm hoping you're open to seeing that, well, it's a
work in progress? (like many of us.)
>I struggled withYeah, some folks just aren't into bondage... Good for you for recognizing
>feeling bound to all those books
that you're one of those folks! (grin) Hey, without a sense of humor,
we'd all be fried by now, eh?
Have you tried untying yourself?
>, guilty that I couldn't accomplishWell, of course not!! Their learning isn't up to you! Their learning is
>it.
up to THEM. You're just there to throw interesting things in their
pathways, play taxi and talk with them.
>All I wanted to do was hang out with my kids.Then do it. Shut off the "but, but, but, but..." tape in your head and
hang out with your kids! Go to movies! Go to the library and pick out
WHATEVER they want! Hang upside down from the monkey bars! Eat Ice Cream
with Lots of Toppings! Learn from them. Fer'gosh'sake. Follow your
instincts, not that 'we-should-be-learning-x-y-z' rubbish.
>So, here comes myI know a child who *still* wasn't 'potty trained' at 4 years old. One day,
>question. Because my son hasn't been the reader that my daughter is
>he is sorely lacking in spelling and grammar skills.
it became important to him. he worked at it and what do you know, within a
day, he was fully potty 'trained'. No mistakes, no rushing here and there,
just, done. When your son thinks spelling is important, he'll start paying
attention and spell correctly. If I thought it was important for YOU to
learn Lithuanian, but you didn't think it was important, how much effort
would you put into learning Lithuanian? Probably not a lot. Until, of
course, *you decided* you wanted to go to Lithuania. See what I
mean? (note the emphasis on *you decided* as opposed to it being imposed
on you.)
>Trying to getWell, once you get those teeth out, I'm sure you could graph them according
>Math done ( I can't figure out how to unschool that) is like pulling
>teeth.
to the size of the attached root, whether they're incisors, molars... okay,
okay. I'm sorry, kinda, but not a whole lot. It's one of my pet peeves.
How can you NOT see the math in everyday life? Don't your kids have to buy
things? Figure out how many of a something will fit into another
something? Cook? Tally their money? Know if they have enough money for a
movie AND popcorn? Figure how many seconds you've been on the phone while
they've been waiting? and what's that in nano-seconds? There's math
EVERYWHERE. Maybe you could stop trying to figure out how to unschool it,
and try to figure out how it's *already* being unschooled?
>I am beginning to feel like I am failing at homeschooling himFirst of all, you've taken a step in the right direction. Second of all,
>and feel that I could use some advice and encouragement.
you're sending your kids mixed messages. You're not really
unschooling. Not really. not yet.
Have you read unschooling.com and sandradodd.com? Go and read 'em. Think
of it as your homework (grin) Lay off the kids completely for a while (as
if they were 'decompressing' from public school) do whatever it is they
might be interested in doing and (you) spend some time talking about this
and that with folks on the unschooling boards and this list. Don't try to
do ANYTHING schoolish, and that includes math or that library thing you
make your daughter do.
When you have read at least a thousand posts (maybe more) and have gotten
completely mad at three different people over how we don't know what the
heck we're talking about, then finish being mad 'cause you see what we
might have meant, THEN go back to the kids. You'll probably still be
sending them mixed messages, but maybe they'll be a little less mixed and
you'll feel a little less 'failured'.
>Well, sorryActually, I thought it was a really interesting post. I only hope I
>this was so long.....
haven't scared you off entirely.
Not everyone's as cranky as I am right now. (smile)
HeidiWD
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
Excellent distinction. You're right.
Thanks!
HeidiWD
Thanks!
HeidiWD
>And really, you don't unschool *subjects*, you unschool *kids*. Actually
>you unschool the parent so the child can learn what he needs to know without
>the parent interfering. <g>
>Tia
[email protected]
Leslie,
I am certainly a newbie at the home schooling, but I do love math! There are
many ways to implement math without the typical worksheets, which provide no
real life application. You can cook and increase or decrease a recipe by a
fraction, doubling, etc. You can take a shopping trip looking at items of
interest to your son and let him determine what the discount would be. At
the grocery store, he can make an estimate of his favorite fruits and
vegetables that you purchase and then weigh them checking his estimate. He
could set up a budget by researching some of the careers he is interested in
and working off of a budget from what he would earn. He would also be able
to research the educational requirements for the job that he desires. He can
continue by searching for a house that would be within his budget. He could
play a stock market simulation-there are books out there or several Internet
sites that would be of assistance. It is just an unending journey of fun!
He could even use athletics when learning geometrical concepts. There are
many games that provide ways to increase logic skills and higher order
thinking skills, such as, Othello, SET (a card game), mancala, and much more.
I hope this helps and as far as unschooling, I am not sure if this
qualifies-I know too little about the topic.
I have come to realize that my daughter has worked hard her whole life,
struggled in school, and has had her talents stifled! She is an avid
reader-up to 8 hours at a crack, writes her own chapter books, but is
receiving a D in English! It just doesn't make sense. I am doing research
regarding the unschooling and hope to have a program in place for next year.
I am a single parent raising 3 children, working full time and am trying to
determine how to do this to make this successful and give my daughter the
opportunity to feel success! She is truly talented, but I feel that she is
being held back from reaching success. My daughter is just about 14. Any
suggestions? I would love to hear them! I am from the Tacoma area and if
there are any groups that meet (at night) I would love to experience it!
The best to your son!
Dawn Schoenenberger
I am certainly a newbie at the home schooling, but I do love math! There are
many ways to implement math without the typical worksheets, which provide no
real life application. You can cook and increase or decrease a recipe by a
fraction, doubling, etc. You can take a shopping trip looking at items of
interest to your son and let him determine what the discount would be. At
the grocery store, he can make an estimate of his favorite fruits and
vegetables that you purchase and then weigh them checking his estimate. He
could set up a budget by researching some of the careers he is interested in
and working off of a budget from what he would earn. He would also be able
to research the educational requirements for the job that he desires. He can
continue by searching for a house that would be within his budget. He could
play a stock market simulation-there are books out there or several Internet
sites that would be of assistance. It is just an unending journey of fun!
He could even use athletics when learning geometrical concepts. There are
many games that provide ways to increase logic skills and higher order
thinking skills, such as, Othello, SET (a card game), mancala, and much more.
I hope this helps and as far as unschooling, I am not sure if this
qualifies-I know too little about the topic.
I have come to realize that my daughter has worked hard her whole life,
struggled in school, and has had her talents stifled! She is an avid
reader-up to 8 hours at a crack, writes her own chapter books, but is
receiving a D in English! It just doesn't make sense. I am doing research
regarding the unschooling and hope to have a program in place for next year.
I am a single parent raising 3 children, working full time and am trying to
determine how to do this to make this successful and give my daughter the
opportunity to feel success! She is truly talented, but I feel that she is
being held back from reaching success. My daughter is just about 14. Any
suggestions? I would love to hear them! I am from the Tacoma area and if
there are any groups that meet (at night) I would love to experience it!
The best to your son!
Dawn Schoenenberger
Tia Leschke
There's math
you unschool the parent so the child can learn what he needs to know without
the parent interfering. <g>
Tia
> EVERYWHERE. Maybe you could stop trying to figure out how to unschool it,And really, you don't unschool *subjects*, you unschool *kids*. Actually
> and try to figure out how it's *already* being unschooled?
you unschool the parent so the child can learn what he needs to know without
the parent interfering. <g>
Tia
Mary Bianco
>From: dschoe3414@...<<I am certainly a newbie at the home schooling, but I do love math! There
are many ways to implement math without the typical worksheets, which
provide no real life application. You can cook and increase or decrease a
recipe by a fraction, doubling, etc. You can take a shopping trip looking at
items of interest to your son and let him determine what the discount would
be. At the grocery store, he can make an estimate of his favorite fruits and
vegetables that you purchase and then weigh them checking his estimate. He
could set up a budget by researching some of the careers he is interested in
and working off of a budget from what he would earn. He would also be able
to research the educational requirements for the job that he desires. He can
continue by searching for a house that would be within his budget. He could
play a stock market simulation-there are books out there or several Internet
sites that would be of assistance. It is just an unending journey of fun! He
could even use athletics when learning geometrical concepts. There are many
games that provide ways to increase logic skills and higher order thinking
skills, such as, Othello, SET (a card game), mancala, and much more. I hope
this helps and as far as unschooling, I am not sure if this qualifies-I know
too little about the topic.>>
Well all this stuff is wonderful if the child is really interested in doing
everything you gave examples for. If he could care less about a budget or
Othello, than I certainly wouldn't use those as math examples to "teach"
them.
I have a friend who says she is an unschooler. She thinks her kids have to
pick something to learn. That they can't just learn without announcing a
subject. Just because she doesn't make them choose one doesn't mean she's
unschooling. She also gives her kids busy work. While redoing her kitchen,
she gave the kids all the particulars about the floor and asked them to
figure out how many tiles or whatever they would need to finish the job. Now
that's great that they could do it, but I'm wondering if they really gave a
rat's ass about finishing the floor and how many tiles it would take. It
wasn't their idea to do it.
My son is great in math. He's 8 and has for a long time gotten the idea of
numbers and how they work. It amazes me how good he is. My daughter could
care less about the number stuff he likes doing. We don't "do" math. Joseph
liked worksheets about 2 years ago and then decided it was useless on paper
and does it all in his head now. <bg> Sierra never has done any math on
paper. I've never really heard her add numbers either. They both tell time
and figure out how long a program is and what time it will be over. They
like measuring stuff with the tape measure. Sierra loves to bake. Joseph
just loves to add numbers and see how high he can go until I have to check
it on paper or with a calculator. They like Sorry and Yahtzee and Monopoly.
They have their own money and always know how their account is fairing. They
love Legos and marbles. They dish out food among the three of them. Nothing
anywhere near what my in laws would consider math. I tend to think they're
wrong.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
[email protected]
Holly was having a math fest tonight. She said she would show me a trick and
she folded a perfectly good blank 3x5 card of mine (I only had one in here at
the time) in half and tore it in two.
I said, "HEY, that was mine! I have lots more if you need them. But now you
made two... (and I hesitated, because I'm slow) ... 3x2 and a half cards."
She laughed and folded and tore them too.
"HEY, now you made two-and-a- half-by-one-and-a-halfs."
She said "Just wait."
So she wrote the numerals one through four, one on each, told me to draw two
and multipy them.
I drew 1 and 4. She said "What's the answer?"
"4"
"YOU WIN!"
"Why?"
"It's even."
She said it was a Shari Lewis trick, an apparent game of chance to use with
little kids who fell that they never win games. She wrote out all the
combinations in order on a piece of paper and showed me that only 1x3 comes
out odd and the rest are even.
Only thing is she was using a minus sigh between the numbers. I told her she
needed an x for times. She said "I'm going to use a star."
"Like a calculator? Okay. But Kurt Vonnegut used that mark as a butthole."
"What!?"
"Kurt Vonnegut said everyone has a butthole and drew one, like this."
"Who's he?"
"He wrote crazy novels. With pictures."
"Obviously!"
So I was looking over her shoulder and said very seriously, "So 3 butthole 4
is even too."
Then she wrote a 1 on the back of each of those four. She gave me all four
and was saying "Make 3,214" and I would rearrange them as quickly as I could.
"Make 1,432."
Then she said "Make 24."
I tried adding and stacking some, but couldn't do it.
She put them in order, and multiplied each one in.
1x2
2x3
6x4
24!
OH!
So she turned them over to where they were all 1's.
"Make 24 out of those."
"I can't make 24 out of those."
"I CAN!" she said, and proceded to touch them in turn and count
1, 2, 3, 4,
and started at the beginning of the row
5, 6, 7, 8,
9, 10, 11, 12... to 24. Really fast.
She thinks in patterns.
Sandra
she folded a perfectly good blank 3x5 card of mine (I only had one in here at
the time) in half and tore it in two.
I said, "HEY, that was mine! I have lots more if you need them. But now you
made two... (and I hesitated, because I'm slow) ... 3x2 and a half cards."
She laughed and folded and tore them too.
"HEY, now you made two-and-a- half-by-one-and-a-halfs."
She said "Just wait."
So she wrote the numerals one through four, one on each, told me to draw two
and multipy them.
I drew 1 and 4. She said "What's the answer?"
"4"
"YOU WIN!"
"Why?"
"It's even."
She said it was a Shari Lewis trick, an apparent game of chance to use with
little kids who fell that they never win games. She wrote out all the
combinations in order on a piece of paper and showed me that only 1x3 comes
out odd and the rest are even.
Only thing is she was using a minus sigh between the numbers. I told her she
needed an x for times. She said "I'm going to use a star."
"Like a calculator? Okay. But Kurt Vonnegut used that mark as a butthole."
"What!?"
"Kurt Vonnegut said everyone has a butthole and drew one, like this."
"Who's he?"
"He wrote crazy novels. With pictures."
"Obviously!"
So I was looking over her shoulder and said very seriously, "So 3 butthole 4
is even too."
Then she wrote a 1 on the back of each of those four. She gave me all four
and was saying "Make 3,214" and I would rearrange them as quickly as I could.
"Make 1,432."
Then she said "Make 24."
I tried adding and stacking some, but couldn't do it.
She put them in order, and multiplied each one in.
1x2
2x3
6x4
24!
OH!
So she turned them over to where they were all 1's.
"Make 24 out of those."
"I can't make 24 out of those."
"I CAN!" she said, and proceded to touch them in turn and count
1, 2, 3, 4,
and started at the beginning of the row
5, 6, 7, 8,
9, 10, 11, 12... to 24. Really fast.
She thinks in patterns.
Sandra
[email protected]
>>Well all this stuff is wonderful if the child is really interested in doingeverything you gave examples for. If he could care less about a budget or
Othello, than I certainly wouldn't use those as math examples to "teach"
them.
I have a friend who says she is an unschooler. She thinks her kids have to
pick something to learn. That they can't just learn without announcing a
subject. Just because she doesn't make them choose one doesn't mean she's
unschooling. She also gives her kids busy work. While redoing her kitchen,
she gave the kids all the particulars about the floor and asked them to
figure out how many tiles or whatever they would need to finish the job. Now
that's great that they could do it, but I'm wondering if they really gave a
rat's ass about finishing the floor and how many tiles it would take. It
wasn't their idea to do it.
My son is great in math. He's 8 and has for a long time gotten the idea of
numbers and how they work. It amazes me how good he is. My daughter could
care less about the number stuff he likes doing. We don't "do" math. Joseph
liked worksheets about 2 years ago and then decided it was useless on paper
and does it all in his head now. <bg> Sierra never has done any math on
paper. I've never really heard her add numbers either. They both tell time
and figure out how long a program is and what time it will be over. They
like measuring stuff with the tape measure. Sierra loves to bake. Joseph
just loves to add numbers and see how high he can go until I have to check
it on paper or with a calculator. They like Sorry and Yahtzee and Monopoly.
They have their own money and always know how their account is fairing. They
love Legos and marbles. They dish out food among the three of them. Nothing
anywhere near what my in laws would consider math. I tend to think they're
wrong.
Mary B
Sometimes an interest is just that simple, being introduced to something.
Try it, you may find you like it!
As for the language, I'm not impressed!
Mary Bianco
From: dschoe3414@a...
Date: Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:57 am
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Introduction and question
<<Sometimes an interest is just that simple, being introduced to something.
Try it, you may find you like it!
As for the language, I'm not impressed!>>
You missed my point and took it personally. I'll chalk it up to you being
new at all this. The sarcasm we could do without.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Date: Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:57 am
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Introduction and question
<<Sometimes an interest is just that simple, being introduced to something.
Try it, you may find you like it!
As for the language, I'm not impressed!>>
You missed my point and took it personally. I'll chalk it up to you being
new at all this. The sarcasm we could do without.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
rebecca delong
<<<Mary Bianco <mummyone24@...> wrote:
From: dschoe3414@a...
Date: Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:57 am
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Introduction and question
<<Sometimes an interest is just that simple, being introduced to something.
Try it, you may find you like it!
As for the language, I'm not impressed!>>
You missed my point and took it personally. I'll chalk it up to you being
new at all this. The sarcasm we could do without.
Mary B>>>
I'm confused. Mary, did you say something bad? ;-)
Rebecca
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: dschoe3414@a...
Date: Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:57 am
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Introduction and question
<<Sometimes an interest is just that simple, being introduced to something.
Try it, you may find you like it!
As for the language, I'm not impressed!>>
You missed my point and took it personally. I'll chalk it up to you being
new at all this. The sarcasm we could do without.
Mary B>>>
I'm confused. Mary, did you say something bad? ;-)
Rebecca
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: rebecca delong <elfmama92104@...><<I'm confused. Mary, did you say something bad? ;-)>>
Obviously. LOL!!! I was responding to someones suggestion about math being
all around and the various ways for children to learn it. I suggested that
it was great unless the parents were choosing these ways and the child
really wasn't interested. Just throwing out ideas and I took the response as
defensive and snappish. I think my bad language was rats ass!!!!
Mary B
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In a message dated 2/26/03 5:17:03 PM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< I think my bad language was rats ass!!!! >>
I'm thinking anyone who can't handle considering whether or not someone gives
a rat's ass about something is going to have a hard time unschooling. Maybe
not. But probably so.
In my own life, I was thinking of a statement of faith situation for the
future at some point. I don't even want to hang around with people who can
see no value in The Simpsons. Anyone who will say they don't want their kids
wasting time playing on the computer, or that video games are good for
eye-hand coordination (as though catching flies weren't a lot cheaper than a
Playstation II), I don't want them around my children at all. If I'm going
to go to all the trouble and loss of income to homeschooling my children
until I'm too old to get a job (I'm 49. I guess I thought I'd have kids at
33, raise them, to back to work when I was done, when I was a little older,
maybe 37...).... I don't want to have invested all that into my children
only to have their faith shaken and their integrity questioned by people who
think there's no value in parody and humor.
So I need some kind of Swami-Beyondananda sort of Statement of Faith. Maybe
make people sign it to visit, or to take my kids anywhere without me.
I'll work on that later. I have to leave midday tomorrow and won't be back
until late Sunday night, and maybe not here until Monday. (So anyone who
wants a chance to sway the whole list away from whatever it is you think I
believe, start at noon Thursday and go for it.)
Sandra
Sandra
<< I think my bad language was rats ass!!!! >>
I'm thinking anyone who can't handle considering whether or not someone gives
a rat's ass about something is going to have a hard time unschooling. Maybe
not. But probably so.
In my own life, I was thinking of a statement of faith situation for the
future at some point. I don't even want to hang around with people who can
see no value in The Simpsons. Anyone who will say they don't want their kids
wasting time playing on the computer, or that video games are good for
eye-hand coordination (as though catching flies weren't a lot cheaper than a
Playstation II), I don't want them around my children at all. If I'm going
to go to all the trouble and loss of income to homeschooling my children
until I'm too old to get a job (I'm 49. I guess I thought I'd have kids at
33, raise them, to back to work when I was done, when I was a little older,
maybe 37...).... I don't want to have invested all that into my children
only to have their faith shaken and their integrity questioned by people who
think there's no value in parody and humor.
So I need some kind of Swami-Beyondananda sort of Statement of Faith. Maybe
make people sign it to visit, or to take my kids anywhere without me.
I'll work on that later. I have to leave midday tomorrow and won't be back
until late Sunday night, and maybe not here until Monday. (So anyone who
wants a chance to sway the whole list away from whatever it is you think I
believe, start at noon Thursday and go for it.)
Sandra
Sandra
Barb Eaton
Sandra,
You are just too funny! ROTFLMAO! Have a great time. ;-)
Barb E
The best preparation for the future is a happy today :-)
-Sandra Dodd
on 2/26/03 7:24 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
(So anyone who
You are just too funny! ROTFLMAO! Have a great time. ;-)
Barb E
The best preparation for the future is a happy today :-)
-Sandra Dodd
on 2/26/03 7:24 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
(So anyone who
> wants a chance to sway the whole list away from whatever it is you think I
> believe, start at noon Thursday and go for it.)
>
> Sandra
>
Bill and Diane
If you have math in your real world, your kids will be exposed to
it--voila! Unschooling math! If there's no math in the real world, why
on earth would you worry about it?!
:-) Diane
dblebach5 wrote:
it--voila! Unschooling math! If there's no math in the real world, why
on earth would you worry about it?!
:-) Diane
dblebach5 wrote:
>Trying to get
>Math done ( I can't figure out how to unschool that) is like pulling
>teeth.
>
Mary Bianco
Thanks for the laugh Sandra. I love the signing of the faith thing before
people visit!!! Let me know when you have it all figured out. Can't wait to
hear from you again.
Mary B
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people visit!!! Let me know when you have it all figured out. Can't wait to
hear from you again.
Mary B
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In a message dated 2/27/03 12:19:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
cen46624@... writes:
Like unschooling math or unschooling science. It is just life and when my
children learn what they need to know for their here and now it involves
everything. You can't separate life into nice neat little categories.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cen46624@... writes:
> If you have math in your real world, your kids will be exposed toI guess in my mind I have stopped looking at life in different subjects.
> it--voila! Unschooling math! If there's no math in the real world, why
> on earth would you worry about it?!
>
>
Like unschooling math or unschooling science. It is just life and when my
children learn what they need to know for their here and now it involves
everything. You can't separate life into nice neat little categories.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/27/2003 11:11:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
genant2@... writes:
terrifying to think about my children not being exposed to enough math before
they head off to college.
Does anyone have any experience with this they can share?
I completely understand the concept of only learning math that you need in
real life, I so agree with that, having struggled to excel with formulas and
such that I rarely have used in the "real world". But I DID have to know it
to be successful in college, so that is nagging at me too.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
genant2@... writes:
> If you have math in your real world, your kids will be exposed toI've been trying to NOT worry about this, but must admit on some levels it is
> >it--voila! Unschooling math! If there's no math in the real world, why
> >on earth would you worry about it?!
>
terrifying to think about my children not being exposed to enough math before
they head off to college.
Does anyone have any experience with this they can share?
I completely understand the concept of only learning math that you need in
real life, I so agree with that, having struggled to excel with formulas and
such that I rarely have used in the "real world". But I DID have to know it
to be successful in college, so that is nagging at me too.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
----- snip----- > I've been trying to NOT worry about this, but must admit
on some levels it is
does want to go to college, unschooling will prepare him to know how to find
information he needs and it will give him the confidence in himself that he
can learn what he wants and needs to learn.
Unschooling means accepting that your child WILL learn what they need to
know. Your child may not ever need math beyond consumer mathematics. Or,
your child may love all things math and can't get enough of it, but couldn't
care less about history or literature. Or something in between.
If your unschooled child needs certain math knowledge for college, he will
be able to get it. There are plenty of ways for people to learn math -
correspondence courses, community college, private tutor, homeschool
curriculum companies such as key to or Saxon, software programs, real life
experiences such as building, etc..
Mary Ellen
on some levels it is
> terrifying to think about my children not being exposed to enough mathbefore
> they head off to college.Unschooling is not about preparing your child for college. If your child
does want to go to college, unschooling will prepare him to know how to find
information he needs and it will give him the confidence in himself that he
can learn what he wants and needs to learn.
Unschooling means accepting that your child WILL learn what they need to
know. Your child may not ever need math beyond consumer mathematics. Or,
your child may love all things math and can't get enough of it, but couldn't
care less about history or literature. Or something in between.
If your unschooled child needs certain math knowledge for college, he will
be able to get it. There are plenty of ways for people to learn math -
correspondence courses, community college, private tutor, homeschool
curriculum companies such as key to or Saxon, software programs, real life
experiences such as building, etc..
Mary Ellen
rebecca delong
Mary Bianco <mummyone24@...> wrote:
<<<Obviously. LOL!!! I was responding to someones suggestion about math being
all around and the various ways for children to learn it. I suggested that
it was great unless the parents were choosing these ways and the child
really wasn't interested. Just throwing out ideas and I took the response as
defensive and snappish. I think my bad language was rats ass!!!!>>>
LOL, I've only been here for about 6-8 months, but I know that I've heard things more "offensive" ;-) than rats ass, maybe she doesn't like rats?
I do agree with you about the difference between throwing out specific ideas and expecting the kids to start learning and trusting that your child will come to the ideas on their own. I think that you have to have lots of things avalible to them so that they can discover and learn in their own way. I think it means more to them when it's their idea, their creation, their whatever...you know just theirs instead of something that a parent has handed them. And I think that no matter how much you pad it in 'unschooloing lingo' if the parent is handing it to the child, it's the parents, not the childs.
Does this make sense? I'm only on my second cup of coffee and my brain is still on auto pilot. <g>
Rebecca
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>From: rebecca delong <elfmama92104@...><<I'm confused. Mary, did you say something bad? ;-)>>
<<<Obviously. LOL!!! I was responding to someones suggestion about math being
all around and the various ways for children to learn it. I suggested that
it was great unless the parents were choosing these ways and the child
really wasn't interested. Just throwing out ideas and I took the response as
defensive and snappish. I think my bad language was rats ass!!!!>>>
LOL, I've only been here for about 6-8 months, but I know that I've heard things more "offensive" ;-) than rats ass, maybe she doesn't like rats?
I do agree with you about the difference between throwing out specific ideas and expecting the kids to start learning and trusting that your child will come to the ideas on their own. I think that you have to have lots of things avalible to them so that they can discover and learn in their own way. I think it means more to them when it's their idea, their creation, their whatever...you know just theirs instead of something that a parent has handed them. And I think that no matter how much you pad it in 'unschooloing lingo' if the parent is handing it to the child, it's the parents, not the childs.
Does this make sense? I'm only on my second cup of coffee and my brain is still on auto pilot. <g>
Rebecca
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorcha
>>I've been trying to NOT worry about this, but must admit on somelevels it is
terrifying to think about my children not being exposed to enough math
before
they head off to college.
Does anyone have any experience with this they can share?
I completely understand the concept of only learning math that you need
in
real life, I so agree with that, having struggled to excel with formulas
and
such that I rarely have used in the "real world". But I DID have to know
it
to be successful in college, so that is nagging at me too.<<
What did you major in? I was good at high school but I didn't
understand the higher levels of math at all. I opted to take embryology
and genetics instead of physics and I didn't take calculus. I graduated
third in my class, which would *not* have happened if I'd taken physics
and calculus. When I got to college I thought of getting a Bachelor of
Science degree and I'd need higher math. I took college level algebra
and barely scraped by with a C+ (my lowest grade in my life). I
enrolled in calculus and quickly dropped it because I realized I would
definitely fail the class. To this day I don't understand higher math.
But I switched my major to one of the many Bachelor of Arts degrees,
which didn't require any more math. I dabbled around in psychology,
English, and political science before finally majoring in
telecommunications (video production). I have never needed any higher
math. My eyes cross and I get a headache when I try to do "hard" math.
But I've never considered myself unsuccessful or even unintelligent
because of it. It's just not my area, and there's really no reason it
has to be everyone's area. There are relatively few careers that
actually require calculus, and the people drawn to those careers are the
people who naturally understand the subject matter and are drawn to it.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rebecca delong
SandraDodd@... wrote:
I do get tired of defending or tv viewing decisions.
Rebecca
ps. I hope your trip goes/went well :-)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>I don't want to have invested all that into my children only to have their faith shaken and their integrity questioned by people who think there's no value in parody and humor.>>>I so understand, most of the parents I have met (homeschooling and schooling) heavily restrict time and content in the t.v. they allow their kids to watch. I can't even tell you how many times a mom has just stared shocked at me and then shaken her head when they find out that Jaiden and Avery have a tv/vcr combo with cable in their room. They can watch tv all day if they want to, sometimes they do, but thats usually when kids that cant watch at home come over and make a huge deal over the fact that the tv is on in the kids room and they have control over it (the only thing we ask is that they keep the volume to a reasonable level, our neighbors just had a baby and they share a bedroom wall with the kids).
I do get tired of defending or tv viewing decisions.
Rebecca
ps. I hope your trip goes/went well :-)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
Schools probably are more disastrous for math learning than for
anything else. They are really completely failing in that area - by
their own standards, much less by the standards that we unschoolers
would impose (kids learning for the love of it, gaining deep
understanding of concepts that interest them, joyfully gaining
competencies and finding personal satisfaction in achieving a greater
understanding of how the world works, building tools to use in pursuing
their passionate interests, etc.).
I worry about math among unschoolers only because the parents have
almost all been "schooled" and therefore so often have some pretty
major negative math issues. If parents have anxiety or phobias about
math - resulting in negative attitudes, avoidance, etc., then I really
think that a bit of very conscious thinking about unschooling and math
is in order.
Unschooling parents are SO helpful to their kids, so supportive, so "in
tune" with their possible interests and needs -- and the parents
themselves are interesting and interested in so many things -- that is
what really makes unschooling so great. But, if a parent has a mental
block in one area - if a parent has spent years building up their OWN
avoidance mechanisms - if a parent feels anxious or negative about
something - I think the parents need to make a conscious and specific
effort to get over it and to be the great
facilitators/supporters/encouragers that they are in other areas,
especially in mathematics, because it is SO everywhere and so likely
that their kids will be interested in something that involves math.
Math is everywhere. It isn't necessary to separate math and "unschool
everything but math." But if parents are uncomfortable with it, then
they might not "engage" their kids like they do with other things. And,
they might have spent so many years getting comfortable with their own
desire to avoid it, that they might automatically be avoiding it and,
for unschooling parents, that can mean that they are NOT noticing a
kids' developing interest - not noticing those moments when some
interesting math could be examined and NOT noticing the math learning
that is going on and that they could support.
It is NOT important for kids to learn school type math. It does seem
important, to me, for kids to be, as they follow their interests with
the support and attention and encouragement and input of their loving
parents, gaining an underlying understanding of a variety of really
important mathematical concepts. This will happen automatically, just
like other learning, in a stimulating, learning-supporting,
curiosity-encouraged thinking, examining, investigating, wondering
unschooling home. But, it won't necessarily happen if parents
themselves are math anxious and do nothing about it to help themselves
get over it.
A lot of parents know this, intuitively, and, not knowing what else to
do about it - wanting to make sure their kids "get math," they
"unschool everything but math."
Mostly that just means they end up passing along their own math anxiety
to their kids.
The underlying concepts that are important - and the few math skills
that are important - CAN be picked up (WILL be picked up) in a
math-healthy unschooling family. But I just have my doubts that there
are that many parents out there who are all that math-healthy unless
they put some specific directed effort into overcoming their schooling
and all its negative consequences.
(I don't mean parents have to get over it themselves so much as they
have to be aware of it and consciously not pass it on to their kids.)
-pam
On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 09:14 AM, rubyprincesstsg@...
wrote:
anything else. They are really completely failing in that area - by
their own standards, much less by the standards that we unschoolers
would impose (kids learning for the love of it, gaining deep
understanding of concepts that interest them, joyfully gaining
competencies and finding personal satisfaction in achieving a greater
understanding of how the world works, building tools to use in pursuing
their passionate interests, etc.).
I worry about math among unschoolers only because the parents have
almost all been "schooled" and therefore so often have some pretty
major negative math issues. If parents have anxiety or phobias about
math - resulting in negative attitudes, avoidance, etc., then I really
think that a bit of very conscious thinking about unschooling and math
is in order.
Unschooling parents are SO helpful to their kids, so supportive, so "in
tune" with their possible interests and needs -- and the parents
themselves are interesting and interested in so many things -- that is
what really makes unschooling so great. But, if a parent has a mental
block in one area - if a parent has spent years building up their OWN
avoidance mechanisms - if a parent feels anxious or negative about
something - I think the parents need to make a conscious and specific
effort to get over it and to be the great
facilitators/supporters/encouragers that they are in other areas,
especially in mathematics, because it is SO everywhere and so likely
that their kids will be interested in something that involves math.
Math is everywhere. It isn't necessary to separate math and "unschool
everything but math." But if parents are uncomfortable with it, then
they might not "engage" their kids like they do with other things. And,
they might have spent so many years getting comfortable with their own
desire to avoid it, that they might automatically be avoiding it and,
for unschooling parents, that can mean that they are NOT noticing a
kids' developing interest - not noticing those moments when some
interesting math could be examined and NOT noticing the math learning
that is going on and that they could support.
It is NOT important for kids to learn school type math. It does seem
important, to me, for kids to be, as they follow their interests with
the support and attention and encouragement and input of their loving
parents, gaining an underlying understanding of a variety of really
important mathematical concepts. This will happen automatically, just
like other learning, in a stimulating, learning-supporting,
curiosity-encouraged thinking, examining, investigating, wondering
unschooling home. But, it won't necessarily happen if parents
themselves are math anxious and do nothing about it to help themselves
get over it.
A lot of parents know this, intuitively, and, not knowing what else to
do about it - wanting to make sure their kids "get math," they
"unschool everything but math."
Mostly that just means they end up passing along their own math anxiety
to their kids.
The underlying concepts that are important - and the few math skills
that are important - CAN be picked up (WILL be picked up) in a
math-healthy unschooling family. But I just have my doubts that there
are that many parents out there who are all that math-healthy unless
they put some specific directed effort into overcoming their schooling
and all its negative consequences.
(I don't mean parents have to get over it themselves so much as they
have to be aware of it and consciously not pass it on to their kids.)
-pam
On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 09:14 AM, rubyprincesstsg@...
wrote:
> I've been trying to NOT worry about this, but must admit on some
> levels it is
> terrifying to think about my children not being exposed to enough math
> before
> they head off to college.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with this they can share?
>
> I completely understand the concept of only learning math that you
> need in
> real life, I so agree with that, having struggled to excel with
> formulas and
> such that I rarely have used in the "real world". But I DID have to
> know it
> to be successful in college, so that is nagging at me too.
Pamela Sorooshian
On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 09:50 AM, rebecca delong wrote:
ready for - only THEY can tell if they've got the background or
framework in place into which to fit some new piece of learning. We
cannot tell that. As much as we think we "know" our own children - and
we're a lot "closer" than a classroom teacher - but we aren't SO close
that we know what is in their brain so well that we can tell exactly
what they should learn next. We can guess. And we can offer stuff based
on our guesses. But the kids have to decide.
-pam
> I think it means more to them when it's their idea, their creation,It is more than that, even, it is that ONLY they can tell what they are
> their whatever...you know just theirs instead of something that a
> parent has handed them
ready for - only THEY can tell if they've got the background or
framework in place into which to fit some new piece of learning. We
cannot tell that. As much as we think we "know" our own children - and
we're a lot "closer" than a classroom teacher - but we aren't SO close
that we know what is in their brain so well that we can tell exactly
what they should learn next. We can guess. And we can offer stuff based
on our guesses. But the kids have to decide.
-pam
Shyrley
rebecca delong wrote:
I still don't 'get' why someone would want to restrict something a child enjoys. It will be interesting (and possibly distressing) to watch what happens when child grows bigger than parent and can't be bullied any longer.
I haven't got any statistics for this, but I'd expect just on personal observation that the more restricted a child is, the wilder they go when 'released' or the more rebellious they are as a teen.
Shyrley
>I find that some people stop coming over for that reason. My kids can turn on the TV, playstation and computer whenever they want. Some people have that hour a day rule and I think they get uncomfortable when their kids ask how come Shyrley's children don't have rules like that. So they don't come round. It's easier than answering their own children honestly or having to get into discussions about it. They also stop inviting us round cos 'liitle Freddy' may have used up his hour allocation for that day but one of mine may ask to look at a new game on the computer. This makes 'little Freddy' whine and say 'pleeeeeeeaaaaase mum' and use the fact that my kids are there to try and wheedle some extra time.
> I so understand, most of the parents I have met (homeschooling and schooling) heavily restrict time and content in the t.v. they allow their kids to watch. I can't even tell you how many times a mom has just stared shocked at me and then shaken her head when they find out that Jaiden and Avery have a tv/vcr combo with cable in their room. They can watch tv all day if they want to, sometimes they do, but thats usually when kids that cant watch at home come over and make a huge deal over the fact that the tv is on in the kids room and they have control over it (the only thing we ask is that they keep the volume to a reasonable level, our neighbors just had a baby and they share a bedroom wall with the kids).
>
> I do get tired of defending or tv viewing decisions.
>
> Rebecca
>
I still don't 'get' why someone would want to restrict something a child enjoys. It will be interesting (and possibly distressing) to watch what happens when child grows bigger than parent and can't be bullied any longer.
I haven't got any statistics for this, but I'd expect just on personal observation that the more restricted a child is, the wilder they go when 'released' or the more rebellious they are as a teen.
Shyrley
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/27/03 11:01:20 AM, sorcha-aisling@... writes:
<< I completely understand the concept of only learning math that you need
in
real life, >>
No, the point is IF all math exists in the real world, then it can be learned
where it is by those who need it.
When people think math doesn't exist in the real world, others tell them
(sometimes sarcastically) that if it's not in the real world there's no
reason to learn it. It IS in the real world; most people have only seen in
textbooks.
Sandra
<< I completely understand the concept of only learning math that you need
in
real life, >>
No, the point is IF all math exists in the real world, then it can be learned
where it is by those who need it.
When people think math doesn't exist in the real world, others tell them
(sometimes sarcastically) that if it's not in the real world there's no
reason to learn it. It IS in the real world; most people have only seen in
textbooks.
Sandra
Pamela Sorooshian
On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 09:57 AM, Sorcha wrote:
calculus and MANY people who aren't naturally drawn to it have to "get
through it" because it is required. Business degrees - including
management and marketing - require calculus. All science degrees.
Nearly all social science degrees. There are lots and lots of people
who want to get those degrees because they want to work in those fields
- who are not at all "drawn" to mathematics. Most have been tortured by
school math and the calculus class is very very often what keeps them
FROM pursuing the degree they are really interested in. MANY people
avoid going into careers because they are math phobic. I've seen a
number of surveys in which elementary school teachers admit that they
chose that career in place of what REALLY interested them, because they
were afraid of the math requirements. (Great - that explains a lot-
math-phobic people gravitate toward teaching elementary school!!!!)
Calculus concepts are interesting and fun to play with - for almost all
kids. Formal calculus, forced on people who have already suffered
through torturous algebra, geometry, and trigonometry classes -- is
very very confusing and painful.
-pam
> There are relatively few careers thatThere are MANY careers, more and more all the time, that require
> actually require calculus, and the people drawn to those careers are
> the
> people who naturally understand the subject matter and are drawn to it.
calculus and MANY people who aren't naturally drawn to it have to "get
through it" because it is required. Business degrees - including
management and marketing - require calculus. All science degrees.
Nearly all social science degrees. There are lots and lots of people
who want to get those degrees because they want to work in those fields
- who are not at all "drawn" to mathematics. Most have been tortured by
school math and the calculus class is very very often what keeps them
FROM pursuing the degree they are really interested in. MANY people
avoid going into careers because they are math phobic. I've seen a
number of surveys in which elementary school teachers admit that they
chose that career in place of what REALLY interested them, because they
were afraid of the math requirements. (Great - that explains a lot-
math-phobic people gravitate toward teaching elementary school!!!!)
Calculus concepts are interesting and fun to play with - for almost all
kids. Formal calculus, forced on people who have already suffered
through torturous algebra, geometry, and trigonometry classes -- is
very very confusing and painful.
-pam
Sorcha
I guess we just have different viewpoints because we're looking at life
from different places. The people in my life are mostly writers,
artists, librarians, English professors, actors, dancers, musicians,
bookstore owners . none of us has ever had any use for any of the things
I was "learning" in calculus (atomic half-life, etc). I do have a
friend who's a civil engineer and she's always loved math. Calculus
comes naturally to her and she finds it exciting and easy. She loves to
swim laps and ponder calculus. My father is a mural artist and I
believe he uses some algebra when he measures a wall and calculates how
much paint to buy. But calculus? I just don't buy the idea that
everyone has to suffer through it if they aren't so inclined.
through it" because it is required.<<
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
from different places. The people in my life are mostly writers,
artists, librarians, English professors, actors, dancers, musicians,
bookstore owners . none of us has ever had any use for any of the things
I was "learning" in calculus (atomic half-life, etc). I do have a
friend who's a civil engineer and she's always loved math. Calculus
comes naturally to her and she finds it exciting and easy. She loves to
swim laps and ponder calculus. My father is a mural artist and I
believe he uses some algebra when he measures a wall and calculates how
much paint to buy. But calculus? I just don't buy the idea that
everyone has to suffer through it if they aren't so inclined.
>>There are MANY careers, more and more all the time, that requirecalculus and MANY people who aren't naturally drawn to it have to "get
through it" because it is required.<<
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rebecca delong
Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 09:50 AM, rebecca delong wrote:
> I think it means more to them when it's their idea, their creation,
> their whatever...you know just theirs instead of something that a
> parent has handed them
>>>>It is more than that, even, it is that ONLY they can tell what they are
ready for - only THEY can tell if they've got the background or
framework in place into which to fit some new piece of learning. We
cannot tell that. As much as we think we "know" our own children - and
we're a lot "closer" than a classroom teacher - but we aren't SO close
that we know what is in their brain so well that we can tell exactly
what they should learn next. We can guess. And we can offer stuff based
on our guesses. But the kids have to decide.>>>>
I understand. My mom decided that for xmas she was going to get Jaiden a bunch of preschool workbooks, she finds it wrong that we haven't forced him to learn how to write letters and numders yet (he's 4). So, those books have sat on Jaidens shelf, he's fliped through them a few times and done a couple pages with his uncle (whose 9) when they play school. But he's been in no rush to learn to write. The other day we where walking home from the zoo and JAiden started adding and subtracting ones from all the address signs he saw, hell I didn't even know he "knew" the numbers yet, he had so much fun with it. Yesterday he was drawing superhero pictures and telling me the story as he was drawing, when he was done he showed it to me, it wes covered in letters. He had decided to write the story down.
I'm so glad that I didn't make him do those workbooks. He enjoyed himself so much by doing it his own way, in his own time. And I love that I get to be with him and watch him grow into his own person.
Rebecca
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Fetteroll
Who's Pamela Sorooshian?
Reminds me of when my sister-in-law was in the hospital after giving birth
and we called up asking to connect us with Cindy Fetteroll and they wanted
to connect us to Cynthia Fetteroll. Cynthia?
Great post by the way. A lot like Pam Sorooshian's.
Joyce
Reminds me of when my sister-in-law was in the hospital after giving birth
and we called up asking to connect us with Cindy Fetteroll and they wanted
to connect us to Cynthia Fetteroll. Cynthia?
Great post by the way. A lot like Pam Sorooshian's.
Joyce
rebecca delong
Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...> wrote:
I haven't got any statistics for this, but I'd expect just on personal observation that the more restricted a child is, the wilder they go when 'released' or the more rebellious they are as a teen.
Shyrley>>>>
I've had people stop coming over too, they say it's because when their kids are over they watch to much tv and it's because my kids watch it all the time. Now I'll admit that the tv is almost always on, but Jaiden and Avery are almost always doing something eles. The only times they really sit and just watch is when the kidos that have come over are sitting there transfixed and mine are sure they are missing something great or when a fave show has a new eppisode or its a new movie that we just got. I've metioned to other parents that kids will do something other than watch tv, but they don't belive me. Mostly because they only see what happens when their here and their kids are making a much bigger deal about the tv, so my kids do to.
Did this make any sense? I had to stop about 12 times while trying to write this. :-)
Rebecca
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>>>>I find that some people stop coming over for that reason. My kids can turn on the TV, playstation and computer whenever they want. Some people have that hour a day rule and I think they get uncomfortable when their kids ask how come Shyrley's children don't have rules like that. So they don't come round. It's easier than answering their own children honestly or having to get into discussions about it. They also stop inviting us round cos 'liitle Freddy' may have used up his hour allocation for that day but one of mine may ask to look at a new game on the computer. This makes 'little Freddy' whine and say 'pleeeeeeeaaaaase mum' and use the fact that my kids are there to try and wheedle some extra time.I still don't 'get' why someone would want to restrict something a child enjoys. It will be interesting (and possibly distressing) to watch what happens when child grows bigger than parent and can't be bullied any longer.
I haven't got any statistics for this, but I'd expect just on personal observation that the more restricted a child is, the wilder they go when 'released' or the more rebellious they are as a teen.
Shyrley>>>>
I've had people stop coming over too, they say it's because when their kids are over they watch to much tv and it's because my kids watch it all the time. Now I'll admit that the tv is almost always on, but Jaiden and Avery are almost always doing something eles. The only times they really sit and just watch is when the kidos that have come over are sitting there transfixed and mine are sure they are missing something great or when a fave show has a new eppisode or its a new movie that we just got. I've metioned to other parents that kids will do something other than watch tv, but they don't belive me. Mostly because they only see what happens when their here and their kids are making a much bigger deal about the tv, so my kids do to.
Did this make any sense? I had to stop about 12 times while trying to write this. :-)
Rebecca
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If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
~*~ what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail? ~*~
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more
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