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In a message dated 2/16/03 3:23:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, sheran@...
writes:

> I know you were just using this as an example, but I had a thought.
> Do you stay up with them and actively participate in their activities
> with them late at night? My husband has the exact same sleeping
> schedule. In bed between 9 and 10, and up at 5 for work. I've
> noticed that when the kids are playing by themselves and I'm doing my
> own thing, they're much more likely to be loud and wake up dh. When
> I'm actively playing with them, they are much more likely to be quiet
> enough. My presence tends to keep things more quiet and them less
> likely to fight loudly with each other.
>
> Sheila
>

Yes, I have tried that. There are a few "logistical" challanges though.. For
one thing, I also have to get up fairly early... 7am, to take Landon to
school. So, when it gets on past midnight, I just cant stay awake. Also,
Dh is not too keen on "not" having me in bed with him...we get very little
time alone.. Not just for sex, just for "being together". The other(
bigger) problem is that the kids bedroom is adjacent to ours. Thier TV and
game systems are in there.. THATS what they want to do. The TV downstairs
is broken ( Ethan broke the on/off switch), so theres really nothing for
them to do downstairs ( that they want to do) I've suggested me reading
to them, playing cards or board games, etc.. No, they want to either watch TV
or more often, play games. That would be OK.. but even my presence and
interaction does not keep them quiet enough for Dh to sleep . I suggested
moving thier TV'/system downstairs, but they would much rather have it in
thier rooms... Taking it back and forth every night is too much trouble..

Some folks suggested that since the kids are not respecting thier dads need
to sleep, then go ahead and have then turn the stuff off at 10. Thats what
we've been doing. They can play, but when they start getting loud, its has
to go off.. Then they lie in bed and fuss and argue and expend the rest of
their high energy for another hour or so. JP usually bed hops several times
before he gets settled. See, the thing is.. before we started
homeschooling, I got them up at 7am. Then with thier long, busy ( stressful)
days of school, they were ready to go to sleep by 10. Actually, we never
had a bedtime rule before when they went to school. Thier being asleep by
10 was a natural occurence because of thier schedules. Well, they stopped
going to school, I dont get them up in the mornings, they sleep sometimes til
11 am.. so, of course, they are not sleepy by 10 pm at night. The few days
that we have had early activities, it was HELL getting them up ( the boys
that is).. These were fun things they wanted to do, but they were just so
tired. And an occasional early morning have to get up disruption in thier
sleep pattern has not helped alter it back to earlier to bed, earlier to
rise. I will say, they ARE getting better.. But, I think its because they
now know that if they start getting too loud, the stuff goes off. I know
that is not unschooling, but it's been the only solution that has "semi"
worked.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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In a message dated 2/16/03 12:37:13 PM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< But, I think its because they
now know that if they start getting too loud, the stuff goes off. I know
that is not unschooling, but it's been the only solution that has "semi"
worked. >>

You're saying "I know that is not unschooling," but others have said more
than once that it's not unschooling to just leave them up without the basis
for it.

Wake them up at 7:00 if it's important that they're sleepy by ten. Since you
have considerations that make bedtime flexibility impractical, stick with
bedtimes. You have a real reason for it, it's not just abitrary control stuff.

During the depression, people made their kids eat lima beans for good reason.
Now if someone forced kids to eat lima beans, it would just be sadistic. <g>
(Apologies to anyone who chooses lima beans as one of their first choices!)

If people have the luxury and flexibility to give their kids more freedoms,
that can be really helpful to unschooling. If not, fine.

Sandra

zenmomma *

>>Some folks suggested that since the kids are not respecting thier dads
>>need to sleep, then go ahead and have then turn the stuff off at 10.
>>Thats what we've been doing. They can play, but when they start getting
>>loud, its has to go off..>>

This is our arrangement with Conor (13). His dad is a very light sleeper and
the sole bread winner. His needs come first on this issue. But we don't
imply that Conor is not respecting his dads sneeds. We just tell him he's
being louder than dad can sleep through. We try not to blame. It's just a
fact. After a few months we no longer had to remind him. He has a good
understanding of what "quiet enough for dad" means.

>>Then they lie in bed and fuss and argue and expend the rest of their high
>>energy for another hour or so.>>

Do they have any regular physical release for all that energy? A karate
class, a trampoline, swimming, gymnastics, etc.?

>>I will say, they ARE getting better.. But, I think its because they now
>>know that if they start getting too loud, the stuff goes off. I know
that is not unschooling, but it's been the only solution that has "semi"
worked.>>

I don't see this as an unschooling issue. You sound like you want to
unschool and also be a less coercive parent. Two different parts of
parenting.

Life is good.
~Mary


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kayb85 <[email protected]>

> I don't see this as an unschooling issue. You sound like you want
to
> unschool and also be a less coercive parent. Two different parts of
> parenting.
>
> Life is good.
> ~Mary

For me, I had to grasp the non-coercive parenting part before I could
become a better unschooler. I see them as going hand in hand.

I've been concentrating on keeping things peaceful, happy, and
healthy (physically and emotionally). I figure that those things
need to be present in order for my kids to function and learn at
their best. When those things are present, their minds are clearer
and unschooling is much more effective.

Sheila