Re: Unschooling every child (was something else)
Pam Hartley
----------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 3042
Date: Sat, Feb 15, 2003, 9:17 AM
we
are not stepford families after all and unschooling MIGHT not work for every
single child, no matter how hard someone wants it to.
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I disagree. I have yet to meet a child for whom unschooling would not work.
I have met many families and parents who I think are incapable (or, maybe
more accurately, just unwilling) to assist their children in successful
unschooling, but I think "learning through true interest and/or need" is a
good definition of "human". I think unschooling will "work" (and here
perhaps we need to establish a definition for what we mean by "unschooling
is working for this child") for every single child, if they are given the
real chance.
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 3042
Date: Sat, Feb 15, 2003, 9:17 AM
> But are you wanting to suggest that unschooling won't work for them?We have to always keep in mind that not EVERYTHING will work for EVERYONE,
>
we
are not stepford families after all and unschooling MIGHT not work for every
single child, no matter how hard someone wants it to.
----------
I disagree. I have yet to meet a child for whom unschooling would not work.
I have met many families and parents who I think are incapable (or, maybe
more accurately, just unwilling) to assist their children in successful
unschooling, but I think "learning through true interest and/or need" is a
good definition of "human". I think unschooling will "work" (and here
perhaps we need to establish a definition for what we mean by "unschooling
is working for this child") for every single child, if they are given the
real chance.
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela
OK, so along the lines of this, Do you feel that a grade school child is
better off being schooled at home with a curriculum if the parent isn't
willing or able to be an unschooling facilitator for their child? If the
parent is too busy to read to the kids much, to take them to the library, to
sit and play games with them, to seek out books they think the kid might
like, to take time to answer their questions or find answers to their
questions, etc. are they better off with a curriculum?
Do you feel the forced curriculum would do more harm than the kid being left
to his own devices?
I have thought this through some and I can't really decided which would be
better in those circumstances. In my mind, I try to put myself in other
people's shoes to figure out what I would do under those circumstances, but
I am not sure.
I can see the one pro for leaving them to their own devices would be not
killing their love of learning but on the other hand, at least with a
curriculum they get some one on one with their parent that they might not
get otherwise.
Angela in Maine-unschooling@...
http://userpages.prexar.com/rickshaw/
"What you are shouts so loudly in my ears I cannot hear what you say."
Emerson
I have yet to meet a child for whom unschooling would not work.
I have met many families and parents who I think are incapable (or, maybe
more accurately, just unwilling) to assist their children in successful
unschooling, but I think "learning through true interest and/or need" is a
good definition of "human". I think unschooling will "work" (and here
perhaps we need to establish a definition for what we mean by "unschooling
is working for this child") for every single child, if they are given the
real chance.
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
better off being schooled at home with a curriculum if the parent isn't
willing or able to be an unschooling facilitator for their child? If the
parent is too busy to read to the kids much, to take them to the library, to
sit and play games with them, to seek out books they think the kid might
like, to take time to answer their questions or find answers to their
questions, etc. are they better off with a curriculum?
Do you feel the forced curriculum would do more harm than the kid being left
to his own devices?
I have thought this through some and I can't really decided which would be
better in those circumstances. In my mind, I try to put myself in other
people's shoes to figure out what I would do under those circumstances, but
I am not sure.
I can see the one pro for leaving them to their own devices would be not
killing their love of learning but on the other hand, at least with a
curriculum they get some one on one with their parent that they might not
get otherwise.
Angela in Maine-unschooling@...
http://userpages.prexar.com/rickshaw/
"What you are shouts so loudly in my ears I cannot hear what you say."
Emerson
I have yet to meet a child for whom unschooling would not work.
I have met many families and parents who I think are incapable (or, maybe
more accurately, just unwilling) to assist their children in successful
unschooling, but I think "learning through true interest and/or need" is a
good definition of "human". I think unschooling will "work" (and here
perhaps we need to establish a definition for what we mean by "unschooling
is working for this child") for every single child, if they are given the
real chance.
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
> OK, so along the lines of this, Do you feel that a grade school child isI'm really bad at "choice between two bad choices" in my own real life and I
> better off being schooled at home with a curriculum if the parent isn't
> willing or able to be an unschooling facilitator for their child? If the
> parent is too busy to read to the kids much, to take them to the library, to
> sit and play games with them, to seek out books they think the kid might
> like, to take time to answer their questions or find answers to their
> questions, etc. are they better off with a curriculum?
>
> Do you feel the forced curriculum would do more harm than the kid being left
> to his own devices?
>
> I have thought this through some and I can't really decided which would be
> better in those circumstances. In my mind, I try to put myself in other
> people's shoes to figure out what I would do under those circumstances, but
> I am not sure.
>
> I can see the one pro for leaving them to their own devices would be not
> killing their love of learning but on the other hand, at least with a
> curriculum they get some one on one with their parent that they might not
> get otherwise.
expect I'm no better at it for a hypothetical family. :)
It would depend (yes, I know that's not a terribly useful answer <g>) on the
child's temperament, on the parent's, on the child's wish to be away from
school or at school, on the quality of/relationship with a given teacher in
a given year vs. the relationship the parent has with the child, etc.
If the child hates curriculum, for example, is it better for him to hate it
administered by the hands of strangers or by his own parent? Is it better
for him to live with his parent actually forcing him, or to live with the
knowledge that his parent is willingly helping someone else to force him?
Or, if the child doesn't hate curriculum and pretty much goes along with the
program, is it better for him to learn to pretty much go along with the
program at home (which for me depends on where HE wants to be and the
quality of the relationship with the parent playing teacher) or to learn
that at school (which for me depends on where HE wants to be and the quality
of the relationship with his teacher(s) at said school).
All of this means: I dunno. <g>
Pam
Fetteroll
on 2/15/03 2:44 PM, Angela at unschooling@... wrote:
It depends. If there isn't a good relationship at home then the child is
better off at school. If the child has problems with standard school work,
bringing school home doesn't allow the child to escape home from it.
I think the question to ask is where will that particular child be happier.
Joyce
> Do you feel that a grade school child isDo you mean schooled at home instead of going to school?
> better off being schooled at home with a curriculum if the parent isn't
> willing or able to be an unschooling facilitator for their child?
It depends. If there isn't a good relationship at home then the child is
better off at school. If the child has problems with standard school work,
bringing school home doesn't allow the child to escape home from it.
I think the question to ask is where will that particular child be happier.
Joyce
Angela
I guess I was too vague, but I hesitate to give all the details on a public
list. I did mean schooled at home. The family of which I am speaking
schools-at-home. They know about unschooling (not radical unschooling) and
thinks it can certainly work and that it works for my family, but don't feel
like it can work for them because the mom feels like the end of the day
always comes and she hasn't interacted with her kids much in a way that they
might learn something because she is too busy with the littler ones. She
has a pretty good relationship with her kids and it isn't too much of a
battle to get them to do the school work, but they already think of it as
(eye roll from the kids) *yuck! school work!* I guess the answer is really
what works for their family.
(sigh) I wish I could help other people to see that they *could* unschool if
they wanted to.
Angela in Maine
http://userpages.prexar.com/rickshaw/
"What you are shouts so loudly in my ears I cannot hear what you say."
Emerson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
list. I did mean schooled at home. The family of which I am speaking
schools-at-home. They know about unschooling (not radical unschooling) and
thinks it can certainly work and that it works for my family, but don't feel
like it can work for them because the mom feels like the end of the day
always comes and she hasn't interacted with her kids much in a way that they
might learn something because she is too busy with the littler ones. She
has a pretty good relationship with her kids and it isn't too much of a
battle to get them to do the school work, but they already think of it as
(eye roll from the kids) *yuck! school work!* I guess the answer is really
what works for their family.
(sigh) I wish I could help other people to see that they *could* unschool if
they wanted to.
Angela in Maine
http://userpages.prexar.com/rickshaw/
"What you are shouts so loudly in my ears I cannot hear what you say."
Emerson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/15/03 12:46:16 PM, unschooling@... writes:
<< Do you feel that a grade school child is
better off being schooled at home with a curriculum if the parent isn't
willing or able to be an unschooling facilitator for their child? >>
Depends why the kid's not in school.
If the child has something about him or her that makes school dangerous or
out of the question, then a curriculum might beat being in school, even if
the child is left to try to figure out the curriculum on his or her own. I
could have done that when I was a kid. If I had a physical disfigurement (to
use a fictitious example) and going to school would mean nothing but people
staring at me and tormenting me, I might be better off at home.
If a parent is unable to be attentive and imaginative and patient, but school
isn't a better option... I would have other questions.
<<If the
parent is too busy to read to the kids much, to take them to the library, to
sit and play games with them, to seek out books they think the kid might
like, to take time to answer their questions or find answers to their
questions, etc. are they better off with a curriculum?>>
Why is that parent thinking she has time to do school-at-home, without time
to unschool?
There are still sitting and library and answers issues with or without a
curriculum.
<<Do you feel the forced curriculum would do more harm than the kid being left
to his own devices?>>
Depends on the kid.
A really active, imaginative kid left to her own devices could devise a lot!
A wounded, scared, irritated kid might be better off with a curriculum,
because IF this child has a parent home unable or unwilling to help, but
unwilling to send him to school, that kid is living with some kind of serious
problem, and might want to have the means to get the knowledge and options he
needs to get out of there as soon as possible, which might could be early
graduation from some correspondence high school or some such.
"It depends" is my best answer. <g>
Sandra
<< Do you feel that a grade school child is
better off being schooled at home with a curriculum if the parent isn't
willing or able to be an unschooling facilitator for their child? >>
Depends why the kid's not in school.
If the child has something about him or her that makes school dangerous or
out of the question, then a curriculum might beat being in school, even if
the child is left to try to figure out the curriculum on his or her own. I
could have done that when I was a kid. If I had a physical disfigurement (to
use a fictitious example) and going to school would mean nothing but people
staring at me and tormenting me, I might be better off at home.
If a parent is unable to be attentive and imaginative and patient, but school
isn't a better option... I would have other questions.
<<If the
parent is too busy to read to the kids much, to take them to the library, to
sit and play games with them, to seek out books they think the kid might
like, to take time to answer their questions or find answers to their
questions, etc. are they better off with a curriculum?>>
Why is that parent thinking she has time to do school-at-home, without time
to unschool?
There are still sitting and library and answers issues with or without a
curriculum.
<<Do you feel the forced curriculum would do more harm than the kid being left
to his own devices?>>
Depends on the kid.
A really active, imaginative kid left to her own devices could devise a lot!
A wounded, scared, irritated kid might be better off with a curriculum,
because IF this child has a parent home unable or unwilling to help, but
unwilling to send him to school, that kid is living with some kind of serious
problem, and might want to have the means to get the knowledge and options he
needs to get out of there as soon as possible, which might could be early
graduation from some correspondence high school or some such.
"It depends" is my best answer. <g>
Sandra
Pam Sorooshian
On Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 03:33 PM, Angela wrote:
own family's circumstances. I know two famlies just like you described.
They're friends and one family unschools and the other does school at
home. The unschooling mom has the other kids at her house occasionally
and she does something very very nice, imo. She takes the time to
actually write up what the kids do at her house - putting it in
"learrning" terms - so that the other mom can appreciate it. Over time,
the other mom is more likely to be able to envision how she could also
do it.
Pam Sorooshian
The National Home Education Network
~The World is Our Classroom~
www.NHEN.org
> (sigh) I wish I could help other people to see that they *could*They just might not be able to envision how they'd do it within their
> unschool if
> they wanted to.
own family's circumstances. I know two famlies just like you described.
They're friends and one family unschools and the other does school at
home. The unschooling mom has the other kids at her house occasionally
and she does something very very nice, imo. She takes the time to
actually write up what the kids do at her house - putting it in
"learrning" terms - so that the other mom can appreciate it. Over time,
the other mom is more likely to be able to envision how she could also
do it.
Pam Sorooshian
The National Home Education Network
~The World is Our Classroom~
www.NHEN.org
zenmomma *
>>She takes the time to actually write up what the kids do at her house -I did this recently for a friend whose dh was questioning the unschooling.
>>putting it in "learrning" terms - so that the other mom can appreciate it.
>>Over time, the other mom is more likely to be able to envision how she
>>could also do it.>>
Still is, she may be going to school. :-( BUT, he was impressed with
everything that went on in a day. I took Casey and this girl to see Peter
Pan. I wrote about it. If anyone wants to see it, just let me know.
Life is good.
~Mary
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Angela
I think this is a great idea....just not so sure it'll work in my situation.
I'll just keep talking about the things I do with my own kids and if what
she is doing isn't working maybe she will eventually look into unschooling
more. Thanks everyone!
Angela in Maine-unschooling@...
http://userpages.prexar.com/rickshaw/
"What you are shouts so loudly in my ears I cannot hear what you say."
Emerson
-----
I'll just keep talking about the things I do with my own kids and if what
she is doing isn't working maybe she will eventually look into unschooling
more. Thanks everyone!
Angela in Maine-unschooling@...
http://userpages.prexar.com/rickshaw/
"What you are shouts so loudly in my ears I cannot hear what you say."
Emerson
-----
>>She takes the time to actually write up what the kids do at her house -[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>putting it in "learrning" terms - so that the other mom can appreciate it.
>>Over time, the other mom is more likely to be able to envision how she
>>could also do it.>>
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/16/2003 2:04:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
Amy Kagey
E-mail me for a list of used
homeschooling books for sale!
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Shop: Usborne Books!</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
>I would please!
> I did this recently for a friend whose dh was questioning the unschooling.
> Still is, she may be going to school. :-( BUT, he was impressed with
> everything that went on in a day. I took Casey and this girl to see Peter
> Pan. I wrote about it. If anyone wants to see it, just let me know.
>
Amy Kagey
E-mail me for a list of used
homeschooling books for sale!
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Shop: Usborne Books!</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma *
>> I took Casey and this girl to see PeterI'll send it to your private addy. :o)
> > Pan. I wrote about it. If anyone wants to see it, just let me know.
> >
>
>I would please!
>Amy Kagey
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
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Deborah Lewis
***I took Casey and this girl to see Peter
Pan. I wrote about it. If anyone wants to see it, just let me know.***
I'd like to see it Mary, please.
Deb L
Pan. I wrote about it. If anyone wants to see it, just let me know.***
I'd like to see it Mary, please.
Deb L