Mary Bianco

First of all let me send my sympathy and also prayers to those who need them
now from losing someone so dear.

I didn't intend on responding to this but my dads birthday is in 2 weeks and
missing him just as much now as I did when he passed 18 years ago made me
want to put it in writing.

My dad was the most incredible man I have ever known. Anyone who knew him
thought the same. He was the best as a father. Never a harsh word to me of
any kind. Very giving and kind. Honest, hard working and loved by literally
everyone who knew him. My friends adored my dad. Our whole town did. When he
passed, there was a line around the block of people who came to pay their
respects. It was quite a show of how much he meant to so many. Now that I
look at this, these words just don't do enough. His passing has changed my
life. I've lost many close friends and relatives since his passing and none
really seem to have any impact on me.

The saddest thing is that my father never got to know my husband and even
worse, see any of this grandchildren. He would have loved grandkids and
well, I was his only hope for that. My kids have missed out on a great guy.
My husbands father passed before any of our children were born also. Three
of my 4 children have never known a grandpa.

Celebrate your dads. No matter how hard the times, celebrate them.

Mary B




_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

zenmomma *

>>Celebrate your dads. No matter how hard the times, celebrate them.>>

I'm flying down to Florida on Thursday to see BOTH my mom and dad. :o)

Life IS good.
~Mary


_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Mary Bianco

>From: "zenmomma *" <zenmomma@...>

<<I'm flying down to Florida on Thursday to see BOTH my mom and dad. :o>>


Ooooh, Mary, wanna come visit me too??

Mary B




_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[email protected]

I have a question about dads, I am not sure even how to frame it. I myself
have always been very into this lifestyle of learning, I am always eager to
learn and talk, I especially love the opportunity to hash out ideas and learn
more. My DH has been great but he does not share my passion. I mentioned the
unschooling conference to him and he can't figure out why we need to go since we
have already been hsing for so many years. Do your husbands share your passion?
Sure glad to have these lists to think out loud.
Laura in Ohio


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<My DH has been great but he does not share my passion. I mentioned the
unschooling conference to him and he can't figure out why we need to go
since we
have already been hsing for so many years. Do your husbands share your
passion?
Sure glad to have these lists to think out loud.>>



Boy my husband sure does! Sometimes even more so than I am; on some
particular issues, such as what could broadly be called "Jayn's health" he
wants to be a bit more controlling and coercive (nb health issues in this
case does NOT include food which he is completely free about). However, it
actually took the last conference for me to really understand and believe
that my darling sweetheart really does get it, and believe in unschooling
and freedom with his whole soul. He is much better than me at dealing with
other people who don't understand how we are living. Last summer Jayn had
been doing a lot of screaming, which bugged our neighbor. Having her telling
Jayn not to scream, while playing, only made Jayn laugh and scream louder.
She later complained that Jayn shouldn't be allowed to scream ever, and
James just calmly told her that "this is where she is right now". (I should
add that we discourage it when Jayn is outside since it does echo around the
building. The apartments are soundproofed so inside it doesn't carry from
inside our place - plus she seems to have outgrown the need.) It's the old
pot calling the kettle black btw - you should hear her screaming for her
dogs to come in! Doesn't bother me, except in the raised eyebrow of irony
that she complains about other people's noises.

Robyn L. Coburn



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dawn Adams

Laura writes:
>I have a question about dads, I am not sure even how to frame it. I myself
>have always been very into this lifestyle of learning, I am always eager to
>learn and talk, I especially love the opportunity to hash out ideas and learn
>more. My DH has been great but he does not share my passion. I mentioned the
>unschooling conference to him and he can't figure out why we need to go since we
>have already been hsing for so many years. Do your husbands share your passion?
>Sure glad to have these lists to think out loud.

How about you've been HSing so long you'd like some new ideas in case you're getting stale? Conferences are rarely for people new to things though they can be a great intro. Conferences and conventions seem to me to be mostly places where people who've been involved in a certain thing for years go to get inspired and trade knowledge. If I was a brain surgeon I certainly wouldn't be staying home from brain surgery conferences. I'd go to keep informed and in the loop. It's also a chance to socialize and party with a bunch of people who share a particular interest, just plain fun.

dawn (in NS)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I'll eat my words, we talked some more about the conference and he said go
ahead and book it. Whale watch and talent show here we come!
Laura, thrilled to death in Ohio, LOL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marjorie Kirk

Are you bringing DH and kids, or just you?

Marjorie

-----Original Message-----
From: BonKnit@... [mailto:BonKnit@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Dads

I'll eat my words, we talked some more about the conference and he said go
ahead and book it. Whale watch and talent show here we come!
Laura, thrilled to death in Ohio, LOL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com



Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/11/2004 6:55:10 PM Central Standard Time,
mkirk@... writes:


> Are you bringing DH and kids, or just you?
>

We are all going, we plan to extend the trip into a mini vacation. There are
a number of places I would like to see while we are there!
Laura


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jane Van Benthusen

My hubby totally gets unschooling and loves our lifestyle but he has no
need to go to support group meeting, conferences or to chat and email like I
do. In fact if I really get to talking about unschooling with him he will
even suggest that I call or email someone. LOL! Does anyone else have that
going on? Just curious, Jane

P.S. Glad to hear your hubby decided to go along with you.


----- Original Message -----
From: <BonKnit@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:46 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Dads


> I have a question about dads, I am not sure even how to frame it. I
myself
> have always been very into this lifestyle of learning, I am always eager
to
> learn and talk, I especially love the opportunity to hash out ideas and
learn
> more. My DH has been great but he does not share my passion. I mentioned
the
> unschooling conference to him and he can't figure out why we need to go
since we
> have already been hsing for so many years. Do your husbands share your
passion?
> Sure glad to have these lists to think out loud.
> Laura in Ohio
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Elizabeth Roberts

No, but Paul has no problem with us going.

MamaBeth

BonKnit@... wrote:
I have a question about dads, I am not sure even how to frame it. I myself
have always been very into this lifestyle of learning, I am always eager to
learn and talk, I especially love the opportunity to hash out ideas and learn
more. My DH has been great but he does not share my passion. I mentioned the
unschooling conference to him and he can't figure out why we need to go since we
have already been hsing for so many years. Do your husbands share your passion?
Sure glad to have these lists to think out loud.
Laura in Ohio


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com


Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



Why not?!

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/11/04 4:47:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, BonKnit@...
writes:

> Do your husbands share your passion?
>

My husband Jackson and I have always been on the same page about parenting
and unschooling. I feel very fortunate. Tell your husband that the unschooling
conference is not about homeschooling and is so different from homeschooling
conferences. Jackson is coming to the conference again this year. We all
enjoy it.
Pam G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

gehrkes

>
> BonKnit@a... wrote:
> I have a question about dads, I am not sure even how to frame it.
I myself
> have always been very into this lifestyle of learning, I am always
eager to
> learn and talk, I especially love the opportunity to hash out
ideas and learn
> more. My DH has been great but he does not share my passion. I
mentioned the
> unschooling conference to him and he can't figure out why we need
to go since we
> have already been hsing for so many years. Do your husbands share
your passion?
> Sure glad to have these lists to think out loud.
> Laura in Ohio
>
>
> Laura,
I am struggling to just get my hubby to understand unschooling. We
try to have a date once a week. Dinner and a visit. We talk about
the stuff the kids are doing and he seems to get it. And then he can
just turn around the next instant and be so authoritarian and
insensitive to them . It is really a struggle, because he does not
get it. I am stepping into a life that is much more repectful and
the kids are saying what is going on with them and saying no when
they need too. He does not understand and yesterday just about broke
my nine year olds heart by yelling at him.
How do we live with two sets of principles..I am unsure how to put
it all together.
I am sure that others have had a similar struggle.. HELP
Kathleen
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stepheny

We are dealing with this sort of thing too. Dh is just not getting it. Sometimes it seems like he understands it, but now he wants the kids to just sit down and "do" some school. And he aggravated ds 9 last night by making him ask for something over and over because he didn't like his "tone". Ds just ended up walking away and was very frustrated and I was frustrated too. Doesn't he see that he is pushing them away by doing this? I ordered some dumb books from half.com. Comprehensive curr. so we can just hurry up and fill them in to satisfy his "do". It won't last long but it sucks. I wish he had the time to make them sit and "do" school. One thing it has shown me is the advances they have made in their reading and other stuff all on thier own with no one forcing them to do it. I am pointing it out to them the sucess they have made on their own. Other than that it is just drudgery. I find that I resent having to do it as much as they do. I'm trying not to show it. Dh is usually so good interacting with them in his own way, I just don't understand what has crawled up his *** lately.Some of it I think is he thinks we are just having fun and he has to work, although I have offered several times to go to work to help him. And he turns down the offer everytime. (better stop asking him LOL)... Stepheny


>
> BonKnit@a... wrote:
> I have a question about dads, I am not sure even how to frame it.
I myself
> have always been very into this lifestyle of learning, I am always
eager to
> learn and talk, I especially love the opportunity to hash out
ideas and learn
> more. My DH has been great but he does not share my passion. I
mentioned the
> unschooling conference to him and he can't figure out why we need
to go since we
> have already been hsing for so many years. Do your husbands share
your passion?
> Sure glad to have these lists to think out loud.
> Laura in Ohio
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pam sorooshian

On Jan 12, 2004, at 7:04 AM, gehrkes wrote:

> He does not understand and yesterday just about broke
> my nine year olds heart by yelling at him.
> How do we live with two sets of principles..I am unsure how to put
> it all together.
> I am sure that others have had a similar struggle.. HELP

Its hard. I don't have answers other than persevere. Treat him as
gently as you can, too.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/12/04 8:45:20 AM, stephc62@... writes:

<< Dh is just not getting it. Sometimes it seems like he understands it,
but now he wants the kids to just sit down and "do" some school. And he
aggravated ds 9 last night by making him ask for something over and over because he
didn't like his "tone". Ds just ended up walking away and was very frustrated
and I was frustrated too. Doesn't he see that he is pushing them away by doing
this? >>

Can you try to tell your husband that if he treats them like he treats people
he likes, they will more quickly BECOME people he likes? And if he treats
them like stupid kids, does that mean he believes they are stupid kids? Put
the pressure on him to consider what he's doing and to THINK about what he does.

Ask him, maybe, how many different responses he considers before he speaks to
them. He might realize he considers none at all. If he can try to consider
two and then choose the better one, he can come incrementally closer to
choosing from three, and never having those rejected-worse choices in his "menu"
again.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/12/04 8:45:20 AM, stephc62@... writes:

<< I ordered some dumb books from half.com. Comprehensive curr. so we can
just hurry up and fill them in to satisfy his "do". It won't last long but it
sucks. >>

Can you all do the stuff together? Instead of separate kids with separate
workbooks, can you all sit and do one page together, brainstorming, and put down
more than one answer if there's more than one good one? And while you're
there, together, laughing, tie those things in with other things they've seen or
done or would like to see or do.

If you're explaining to them why workbook questions are worded as they are,
or arranged as they are, they're learning about how formal education works, and
about the subject at hand, and of your belief that those books are not
necessary for learning, they're just to make dad feel better until he can see
learning a different way.

Sandra

gehrkes

--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
>
> On Jan 12, 2004, at 7:04 AM, gehrkes wrote:
>
> > He does not understand and yesterday just about broke
> > my nine year olds heart by yelling at him.
> > How do we live with two sets of principles..I am unsure how to
put
> > it all together.
> > I am sure that others have had a similar struggle.. HELP
>
> Its hard. I don't have answers other than persevere. Treat him as
> gently as you can, too.
>
> -pam
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.
Thanks Pam.. I just reread my post and realized I did not even use a
question mark.. Perhaps I was venting.. I realize this is big and I
know he wants to get it too..
Kathleen

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/12/2004 10:11:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gehrkes@... writes:
<<I am struggling to just get my hubby to understand unschooling. We
try to have a date once a week. Dinner and a visit. We talk about
the stuff the kids are doing and he seems to get it. And then he can
just turn around the next instant and be so authoritarian and
insensitive to them . It is really a struggle, because he does not
get it. I am stepping into a life that is much more repectful and
the kids are saying what is going on with them and saying no when
they need too. He does not understand and yesterday just about broke
my nine year olds heart by yelling at him.>>


I'm wondering if maybe he does get it but is just falling back on old habits.
I find myself doing that but less and less frequently as time goes on. Once
I really realized and saw in my own life how disrespectful I was being to my
children, I had to change. My advice would be to keep talking about what you
feel and what you see, and keep modelling respectful parenting.

--Jacqueline


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lyle W.

<<I am struggling to just get my hubby to understand unschooling. We
try to have a date once a week. Dinner and a visit. We talk about
the stuff the kids are doing and he seems to get it. And then he can
just turn around the next instant and be so authoritarian and
insensitive to them . It is really a struggle, because he does not
get it. I am stepping into a life that is much more repectful and
the kids are saying what is going on with them and saying no when
they need too. He does not understand and yesterday just about broke
my nine year olds heart by yelling at him.>>
----- Original Message -----
From: ivorygrace7@...
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:06:57 EST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Dads

> In a message dated 1/12/2004 10:11:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> gehrkes@... writes:
> <<I am struggling to just get my hubby to understand unschooling. We
> try to have a date once a week. Dinner and a visit. We talk about
> the stuff the kids are doing and he seems to get it. And then he can
> just turn around the next instant and be so authoritarian and
> insensitive to them . It is really a struggle, because he does not
> get it. I am stepping into a life that is much more repectful and
> the kids are saying what is going on with them and saying no when
> they need too. He does not understand and yesterday just about broke
> my nine year olds heart by yelling at him.>>
>

I wonder if in his mind he's still separating their learning from their living. He might understand when you tell them what they're learning, but still can't understand that it's all part of a much bigger picture than simply "education".

Ask him to treat the children the same way he treats you, or his parents, or whoever he respects and trusts. If he wouldn't say "it" to you, then don't say it to them.

It's hard for some people to give up control. It takes a lot of conscious effort, and a constant self-policing of their thoughts and actions for a while. It can be tough.

(I haven't had time to read any of the other responses, so if I'm repeating....sorry.)

:)

Lyle
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



***Always remember, Lead By Example***

--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

Deborah Lewis

***He does not understand and yesterday just about broke
my nine year olds heart by yelling at him.
How do we live with two sets of principles..I am unsure how to put
it all together.***

David knew what he wanted for Dylan before Dylan was even born. He knew,
but when he's living in each moment sometimes the only things in the
parenting center of his brain are the various prerecorded obnoxious
messages in his father's loud voice.

I think the parent who gets the most time with a kid also gets a lot of
time to reflect on the relationship and what might make it better. I
think the parent who has only a little time at home with the kids only
takes time to react.

Sandra suggested you ask him if he thought of different responses before
he spoke. This really helps my husband. He has that ever present voice
of his dad banging around in his head. But he's found he doesn't have to
let it out and he can choose to be David Lewis instead of Ron Lewis. <g>


I wonder how many partners get left in the dust of the parent zooming
toward unschooling? Or toward respectful parenting? We have to share
the ground we're gaining if we want them standing beside us when we look
up.<g> When you find posts you think would speak to the concerns of your
family see if he'll read them too.

Is he easy to talk to? Can you just say you want to be nicer to the kids
because it'll mean they'll be nicer people and nicer to their own kids?
If he doesn't want to talk much about the whole philosophy can you just
slide that little bit in?

Deb L

Kelli Traaseth

----- Original Message -----
From: Deborah Lewis

**When you find posts you think would speak to the concerns of your
family see if he'll read them too. **
***************************************

Yes! I printed those posts out for my dh. Any that really spoke truths to me, I would hit *print*. He could then read little bursts of info. We had Joyce's posts in the bif, Sandra's posts in the car, Mary G.'s posts in another room. <g>

It is hard for the spouse that isn't at home and isn't doing the researching. They aren't living it, they aren't seeing it at work, like us.

Also it was nice that these words were coming from other people's mouths. Not mine. So that he wouldn't take it personal or I wouldn't get emotional or something like that. One big point that really struck home with my hubby was, "would you speak that way to a friend of yours?" The whole respect thing was something that he never considered, yet it really made so much sense when I pointed it out. (I think it was one of Joyce's posts that really hit home for him. Thanks, Joyce!)

He read about not requiring chores, dealing with others questions, how great these unschooled kids were turning out, all sorts of stories.

He is now a wonderful unschooling advocate! But it did take some time and effort on both of our parts.


For those of you whose spouses are having a hard time with understanding it all, the conference would be an awesome way to get to that advocacy level. <g> Really. If you can get to the Live and Learn Conference, do it!

Kelli~




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/12/2004 5:44:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tktraas@... writes:

>
> For those of you whose spouses are having a hard time with understanding it
> all, the conference would be an awesome way to get to that advocacy level. <
> g> Really. If you can get to the Live and Learn Conference, do it!
>

I've written before about the profound effect the conference had on our lives
last year. My husband (who is step-dad to my kids) has been supportive of
our homeschooling lifestyle since we met 7 years ago and the children were 3 and
7. He happily went to the conference with us last year and although I had
talked about unschooling some I think he still expected a "homeschool
conference" where I have actually sprinted out of speeches where someone was talking
about how to train up their children. It was the beginning of our unschooling
journey and he came away from the conference as the children and I did.
We felt like we had found a home.....a place where we belonged.

These past few months have been so exciting and freeing for all of us. I
could never have explained it all to him if he had not been there. It wasn't so
much the speakers (although they were superb) but the little moments on the
elevators with wide-eyed giggling children, teenagers with their skateboards who
took the time to talk to us and the acceptance that I felt in every
conversation I had with total strangers who by the end of the weekend felt like
friends. I know my husband is glad he went and we'll all be there again this year.

Gail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/12/2004 9:11:41 AM Central Standard Time,
gehrkes@... writes:


> How do we live with two sets of principles..I am unsure how to put
> it all together.
>

Model it for him. That's what worked for us. Sometimes Mark still falls
back on old behavior, I just heard him raise his voice with the kids downstairs.
But I told him that my only resolution this year was to raise my voice and
yell less. And he agreed that was a great one. Better than all those lose
weight, exercise things we always talk about. I have every confidence we will
get there together.

I have found that he really can't be told what I object to in terms of how he
interacts with the kids. Some Dads might welcome hints now and then, mine
doesn't. But he will watch and repeat my behavior at a later date. He rarely
uses the sing-songy voice with the kids anymore, for example. And he tries to
get their sides of the story and work through disagreements.

It's not easy, but remember that he's not as focused as you on this path, so
he'll hit more bumpy spots.

Elizabeth in IL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stepheny

Ok alot of thinking about this. He is not as willing to listen to me make so many suggestions at once, so I have to go slow. A little bit at a time. He swallows it easier.

However I just talked to the kids, Alyssa esp., it is bothering her the most. I told her I let the list know what was being required of us, and also the things you suggested about doing while we did the worksheets, sit back and relax, that we are still unschoolers. She thought we wouldn't be unschoolers anymore, and would not be allowed to any more conferences LOL. Well I have a better perspective about it, and it seems he is happy if we only sit and do it once or twice a week. Great suggestions. I was just thinking drudgery drudgery just when I was starting to feel so free. Stepheny
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...



In a message dated 1/12/04 8:45:20 AM, stephc62@... writes:

<< I ordered some dumb books from half.com. Comprehensive curr. so we can
just hurry up and fill them in to satisfy his "do". It won't last long but it
sucks. >>

Can you all do the stuff together? Instead of separate kids with separate
workbooks, can you all sit and do one page together, brainstorming, and put down
more than one answer if there's more than one good one? And while you're
there, together, laughing, tie those things in with other things they've seen or
done or would like to see or do.

If you're explaining to them why workbook questions are worded as they are,
or arranged as they are, they're learning about how formal education works, and
about the subject at hand, and of your belief that those books are not
necessary for learning, they're just to make dad feel better until he can see
learning a different way.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]