Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] OH!.. THATS the answer.. silly me
zenmomma *
>>I will definitely stopthrowing temper tantrums around here.. Gosh, I'veI don't know, I'm pretty sure all of us have modelled some behavior we wish
>>broken 5 sewing machines, 3
>microwaves, and 3 mixers in just the past 6 months..>>
we could take back. I know I have. I certainly don't tantrum to the extreme
like my Casey can (she's a pro ;-)), but I've been known to yell or pout or
sulk off when I can't take it anymore. I don't do it often, but I do notice
that they pay such close attention when I'm reacting under stress. I've also
had to work really hard since having kids to NOT model my extreme
perfectionism for them. I'm 43 and still working on these things.
I don't think anyone's being singled out here. Just some food for thought.
Life is good.
~Mary
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In a message dated 2/13/03 8:01:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
As far was what youve said Re our own "wish we could take back" behaviours..
Of course I have those days.. Just like yesterday when I took the N64 away
for a couple of hours. But, also just like you said of yourself, I dont
throw tantrums like my children. And for all the geneticsmy husband and I
have passed along to our children, these behaviours were not in them. If
they had been, maybe it would be easier for me to identify with thier speical
needs .
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
> I don't know, I'm pretty sure all of us have modelled some behavior we wishYes, Mary, Sandra does take every opportunity to single me out.
> we could take back. I know I have. I certainly don't tantrum to the extreme
>
> like my Casey can (she's a pro ;-)), but I've been known to yell or pout or
>
> sulk off when I can't take it anymore. I don't do it often, but I do notice
>
> that they pay such close attention when I'm reacting under stress. I've
> also
> had to work really hard since having kids to NOT model my extreme
> perfectionism for them. I'm 43 and still working on these things.
>
> I don't think anyone's being singled out here. Just some food for thought.
>
> Life is good.
> ~Mary
>
As far was what youve said Re our own "wish we could take back" behaviours..
Of course I have those days.. Just like yesterday when I took the N64 away
for a couple of hours. But, also just like you said of yourself, I dont
throw tantrums like my children. And for all the geneticsmy husband and I
have passed along to our children, these behaviours were not in them. If
they had been, maybe it would be easier for me to identify with thier speical
needs .
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma *
>>You know, Mary and Anne( and many others) have special needs children..I did. :o)
>>Gosh, I dont see anyone suggesting that thier kids learned (or even
>>inherited) their behaviors from them. >>
It's always a balance for me in trying to understand what is seemingly out
of my child's control because of their out-of-sync issues and what is, for
them, a learned response to those same issues. I have had to work hard to
change many of *my* responses to how they are acting once I had a better
understanding of what their body and mind was telling them. We have all had
to work hard to be mindful of our first reaction to any situation.
And for us, it is most definitely genetic. Just ask my mom. ;-)
Life is good.
~Mary
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zenmomma *
>>Yes, Mary, Sandra does take every opportunity to single me out.>>Well, I have not yet seen an example of this, but as I'm newly back to these
discussions, I can only comment on what I've seen so far.
>>As far was what youve said Re our own "wish we could take back"I was trying though to also gently point out that tantrums take many forms.
>>behaviours.. Of course I have those days.. Just like yesterday when I took
>>the N64 away for a couple of hours. But, also just like you said of
>>yourself, I dont throw tantrums like my children.>>
Our wonderful out of sync children are so sensitive. They see when we are
letting outside circumstances frustrate and get to us. They can feel when
we're taking our own frustations and turning them inward. Every time we
don't use a difficult or frustrating situation as a place to learn and grow
from, we're modelling a reaction, a mindset for them.
Now of course we're older, we may not have the same sensory issues, we're
different people than our kids, so we hold and act out that tension
differently. That doesn't mean we are actively modelling for them how to
just let the tension go. How to not take a frustration (a difficult video
game, a challenging comment) and internalize it.
Life is good.
~Mary
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In a message dated 2/14/03 6:10:48 AM, zenmomma@... writes:
<< It's always a balance for me in trying to understand what is seemingly out
of my child's control because of their out-of-sync issues and what is, for
them, a learned response to those same issues. I have had to work hard to
change many of *my* responses to how they are acting once I had a better
understanding of what their body and mind was telling them. We have all had
to work hard to be mindful of our first reaction to any situation. >>
Me too. Same here.
Kirby would not have done well in school, which is why we didn't send him.
He is biochemically a lot like me, which is why I already had tricks right at
hand to share with him about how to handle his feelings. Luckily for us, we
were on this when he was little, before we knew we were going to be involved
in homeschooling. We had helped him develop workable self-calming routines
when he was a toddler, and we had learned ourselves (Keith and I) tricks for
helping him center quickly when he was about to spin out. It was another
whole deal when Marty became a factor in Kirby's life.
Had we used the same methods and ideas our parents had, Kirby would likely be
a hostile, defensive mess now, and we might be the kind of parents who would
say we didn't much like him, and we would probably be grounding him and other
non-productive parent vs. kid behaviors.
We worked hard at helping him be the best we and he together could figure out
for him to be.
Because of running a homeschooling playgroup for many, many years we have met
other families ("met" is too light a word for families you see weekly, whose
kids stay over, whose moms share intimate home-stories, etc.) with boys who
were eight, ten, fourteen and who came to homeschooling because the boys were
NOT peaceable, self-controlled, likeable guys.
When someone decides the path they're on is not leading where they want to
go, some of them decide to homeschool. And at that point they make lots of
decisions. Will they continue as they were? What factors in that child's
life are making the situation worse? What could be done to re-direct energy,
to rebuild self-esteem, to back up (because it DOES involve some backing up
and being still) and choose a new direction and a new pace and a new idea
about the destination?
Of all the boys (I'm thinking of five of them specifically) whose parents
went from structure to unschooling, only one maintained his bristliness, and
even in that case he wasn't in trouble for it as he had been in school,
nobody was attacking him for it, he wasn't in tears over trying to explain
his side of situations at home, at school. He was able to get time and
privacy to read and be by himself and calm down, luxuries he hadn't had when
he was in school and his parents were just desperately trying to get him to
"be good."
So he still has his irritating traits, but he also has real friends. And
because I know his parents and his sister and have met an aunt and a
grandmother, I know that he's like his dad. And his dad (though sometimes
irritating! <bwg>) is a good guy, artistic, hard-working, funny, inflexible,
controlling, reactionary, and he has learned over the years how to deal with
his quirks, so he can help his son do it too.
Sandra
<< It's always a balance for me in trying to understand what is seemingly out
of my child's control because of their out-of-sync issues and what is, for
them, a learned response to those same issues. I have had to work hard to
change many of *my* responses to how they are acting once I had a better
understanding of what their body and mind was telling them. We have all had
to work hard to be mindful of our first reaction to any situation. >>
Me too. Same here.
Kirby would not have done well in school, which is why we didn't send him.
He is biochemically a lot like me, which is why I already had tricks right at
hand to share with him about how to handle his feelings. Luckily for us, we
were on this when he was little, before we knew we were going to be involved
in homeschooling. We had helped him develop workable self-calming routines
when he was a toddler, and we had learned ourselves (Keith and I) tricks for
helping him center quickly when he was about to spin out. It was another
whole deal when Marty became a factor in Kirby's life.
Had we used the same methods and ideas our parents had, Kirby would likely be
a hostile, defensive mess now, and we might be the kind of parents who would
say we didn't much like him, and we would probably be grounding him and other
non-productive parent vs. kid behaviors.
We worked hard at helping him be the best we and he together could figure out
for him to be.
Because of running a homeschooling playgroup for many, many years we have met
other families ("met" is too light a word for families you see weekly, whose
kids stay over, whose moms share intimate home-stories, etc.) with boys who
were eight, ten, fourteen and who came to homeschooling because the boys were
NOT peaceable, self-controlled, likeable guys.
When someone decides the path they're on is not leading where they want to
go, some of them decide to homeschool. And at that point they make lots of
decisions. Will they continue as they were? What factors in that child's
life are making the situation worse? What could be done to re-direct energy,
to rebuild self-esteem, to back up (because it DOES involve some backing up
and being still) and choose a new direction and a new pace and a new idea
about the destination?
Of all the boys (I'm thinking of five of them specifically) whose parents
went from structure to unschooling, only one maintained his bristliness, and
even in that case he wasn't in trouble for it as he had been in school,
nobody was attacking him for it, he wasn't in tears over trying to explain
his side of situations at home, at school. He was able to get time and
privacy to read and be by himself and calm down, luxuries he hadn't had when
he was in school and his parents were just desperately trying to get him to
"be good."
So he still has his irritating traits, but he also has real friends. And
because I know his parents and his sister and have met an aunt and a
grandmother, I know that he's like his dad. And his dad (though sometimes
irritating! <bwg>) is a good guy, artistic, hard-working, funny, inflexible,
controlling, reactionary, and he has learned over the years how to deal with
his quirks, so he can help his son do it too.
Sandra
zenmomma *
>>One thing maybe people also need to remember is that many of us DO haveThis was pretty much the topic of the article I wrote that Sandra just put
>>kids like that, but we don't call them "special needs" kids. They're just
>>our kids.>>
up. It's entitled "Special Needs or Just Special." I never use that term
special needs except here in these forums. I do it here because I think
there are parents who need to hear what I have to say. What I have to say is
that you really can toss those alphabet soup labels out the window once your
kids are not in school.
My kids are bright and intense and focused and spirited and sensitive and
moody and wonderful and special.
Life is good.
~Mary
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zenmomma *
>>... love him enough to swallow your own frustration and focus on hisBeautiful, Debbie.
>>frustration, instead.>>
Life is good.
~Mary
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In a message dated 2/14/03 6:02:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
goal to strive for
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
> >>... love him enough to swallow your own frustration and focus on hisYES>.. now that is some good advice. easier said than done. but a wondeful
> >>frustration, instead.>>
>
goal to strive for
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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In a message dated 2/14/2003 4:29:11 PM Central Standard Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
to use it to describe my child so someone who doesn't know him, can
understand him. Such as a doctor, dentist, beautician etc.
You are right they are special indeed, as all our kids are!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
> >>One thing maybe people also need to remember is that many of us DO haveSpecial needs, don't like the word, but sometimes I have to use it in order
> >>kids like that, but we don't call them "special needs" kids. They're just
>
> >>our kids.>>
to use it to describe my child so someone who doesn't know him, can
understand him. Such as a doctor, dentist, beautician etc.
You are right they are special indeed, as all our kids are!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]