Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] music, again
Alan & Brenda Leonard
2/9/03 10:01:
to answer the question the two ways I think it might be possible that you're
asking, and if they're both unhelpful, you'll have to try asking again! <g>
Attempt #1:
If you're playing a score of music, there are multiple lines (parts), and a
transposing instrument might be only one of them. So you could have a
number of "C" parts (strings, flutes, oboe?), a couple of "B flat" parts
(clarintes) and four "F" parts (french horns) in an orchestra. Obviously it
would make sense to the the bflat clarinetist play only clarinet parts.
Attempt #2:
I think it works to play the part just as though it were written for you,
although an odd note here or there might be wrong. I seem to remember doing
this with recorder music long, long ago. Some helpful person wrote all the
parts to read with "c" fingerings, rather than actual pitch. I just
remember being terribly confused.
But then you can only play alone. How fun is that?
brenda
> On the other hand, isn't it true that the transpositions for one instrumentThis one is a tad confusing. I'm not sure what you're asking, so I'm going
> would be the same? In other words, no matter what score of music you are
> playing the "c" would sound as a b flat? So, as long as you are playing that
> single instrument, the notations in the music will have a consistant meaning,
> even if its not the same meaning as another instrument?
to answer the question the two ways I think it might be possible that you're
asking, and if they're both unhelpful, you'll have to try asking again! <g>
Attempt #1:
If you're playing a score of music, there are multiple lines (parts), and a
transposing instrument might be only one of them. So you could have a
number of "C" parts (strings, flutes, oboe?), a couple of "B flat" parts
(clarintes) and four "F" parts (french horns) in an orchestra. Obviously it
would make sense to the the bflat clarinetist play only clarinet parts.
Attempt #2:
I think it works to play the part just as though it were written for you,
although an odd note here or there might be wrong. I seem to remember doing
this with recorder music long, long ago. Some helpful person wrote all the
parts to read with "c" fingerings, rather than actual pitch. I just
remember being terribly confused.
But then you can only play alone. How fun is that?
brenda
Have a Nice Day!
I think your second attempt explained it, though I'm not really sure LOL.
I guess what I meant was, if a score is written with an orchestra in mind, and there is a player of a transposing instrument, the musical notation will either be adjusted for them, or they will just adjust it in their heads as they go, since they are used to playing that particular instrument and are accustomed to the transposition problem.
Kristen
I guess what I meant was, if a score is written with an orchestra in mind, and there is a player of a transposing instrument, the musical notation will either be adjusted for them, or they will just adjust it in their heads as they go, since they are used to playing that particular instrument and are accustomed to the transposition problem.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan & Brenda Leonard
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] music, again
2/9/03 10:01:
> On the other hand, isn't it true that the transpositions for one instrument
> would be the same? In other words, no matter what score of music you are
> playing the "c" would sound as a b flat? So, as long as you are playing that
> single instrument, the notations in the music will have a consistant meaning,
> even if its not the same meaning as another instrument?
This one is a tad confusing. I'm not sure what you're asking, so I'm going
to answer the question the two ways I think it might be possible that you're
asking, and if they're both unhelpful, you'll have to try asking again! <g>
Attempt #1:
If you're playing a score of music, there are multiple lines (parts), and a
transposing instrument might be only one of them. So you could have a
number of "C" parts (strings, flutes, oboe?), a couple of "B flat" parts
(clarintes) and four "F" parts (french horns) in an orchestra. Obviously it
would make sense to the the bflat clarinetist play only clarinet parts.
Attempt #2:
I think it works to play the part just as though it were written for you,
although an odd note here or there might be wrong. I seem to remember doing
this with recorder music long, long ago. Some helpful person wrote all the
parts to read with "c" fingerings, rather than actual pitch. I just
remember being terribly confused.
But then you can only play alone. How fun is that?
brenda
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alan & Brenda Leonard
2/9/03 23:19:
Orchestra parts are usually written as the player needs them. So if the
clarinetist needs a b flat part, that's what he/she'll get. Conductor, too.
So the conductor has to transpose easily. A good player should be able to
transpose in their head from a "c" part, but in reality, not everybody is
necessarily good at that.
brenda
> I guess what I meant was, if a score is written with an orchestra in mind, andOH! I get your question now. (gee, that should help, huh?!)
> there is a player of a transposing instrument, the musical notation will
> either be adjusted for them, or they will just adjust it in their heads as
> they go, since they are used to playing that particular instrument and are
> accustomed to the transposition problem.
Orchestra parts are usually written as the player needs them. So if the
clarinetist needs a b flat part, that's what he/she'll get. Conductor, too.
So the conductor has to transpose easily. A good player should be able to
transpose in their head from a "c" part, but in reality, not everybody is
necessarily good at that.
brenda
marji
At 00:54 2/10/03 +0100, Brenda wrote:
written in some screwy key or the piece has double sharps or double flats
in them! ;-)
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Orchestra parts are usually written as the player needs them. So if the...or wants to work that hard all the time, especially if the piece is
>clarinetist needs a b flat part, that's what he/she'll get. Conductor, too.
>So the conductor has to transpose easily. A good player should be able to
>transpose in their head from a "c" part, but in reality, not everybody is
>necessarily good at that.
written in some screwy key or the piece has double sharps or double flats
in them! ;-)
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/9/03 12:03:37 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< I guess what I meant was, if a score is written with an orchestra in mind,
and there is a player of a transposing instrument, the musical notation will
either be adjusted for them, or they will just adjust it in their heads as
they go, since they are used to playing that particular instrument and are
accustomed to the transposition problem. >>
They don't do the transposing. They just get their B-flat clarinet music and
play it straight across. ALL music written for clarinets is written that way.
What I don't know is what jazz musicians who never read music do. If anyone
knows any non-music-reading clarinet or sax players, I'd be interested in
whether they just go with the key the pianist is in!
Sandra
<< I guess what I meant was, if a score is written with an orchestra in mind,
and there is a player of a transposing instrument, the musical notation will
either be adjusted for them, or they will just adjust it in their heads as
they go, since they are used to playing that particular instrument and are
accustomed to the transposition problem. >>
They don't do the transposing. They just get their B-flat clarinet music and
play it straight across. ALL music written for clarinets is written that way.
What I don't know is what jazz musicians who never read music do. If anyone
knows any non-music-reading clarinet or sax players, I'd be interested in
whether they just go with the key the pianist is in!
Sandra
marji
At 20:52 2/9/03 -0500, Sandra wrote:
Coming from a sort of jazz background, I have to tell you I really don't
know ANY nonreading jazz players! Even the old joke, "How do you get a
guitar player to turn his amp down?" (put a lead sheet in front of him),
doesn't really apply. The jazz players I know (lots here in the NYC and
surrounding area) have heavy theory backgrounds and are great readers. A
good friend of mine who played the tenor sax was from the old school (a
player from the 50s). He played well into his 90s. He never went to
college or anything like that, but he could read, too. Although you can
find fake books for E-flat and B-flat instruments, most of the time you'd
always see the sax player looking over the guitar player's or piano
player's or bass player's shoulder at a fake book that was written for C
instruments, and you just know that guy is transposing not only the melody
of the tune but then when it comes to soloing, he's transposing the cords
and transposing the harmony and modes. Yikes! It's hard for me to imagine
doing, but these folks do it all the time and it's just second nature.
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>What I don't know is what jazz musicians who never read music do. If anyoneHi Sandra.
>knows any non-music-reading clarinet or sax players, I'd be interested in
>whether they just go with the key the pianist is in!
>
>Sandra
Coming from a sort of jazz background, I have to tell you I really don't
know ANY nonreading jazz players! Even the old joke, "How do you get a
guitar player to turn his amp down?" (put a lead sheet in front of him),
doesn't really apply. The jazz players I know (lots here in the NYC and
surrounding area) have heavy theory backgrounds and are great readers. A
good friend of mine who played the tenor sax was from the old school (a
player from the 50s). He played well into his 90s. He never went to
college or anything like that, but he could read, too. Although you can
find fake books for E-flat and B-flat instruments, most of the time you'd
always see the sax player looking over the guitar player's or piano
player's or bass player's shoulder at a fake book that was written for C
instruments, and you just know that guy is transposing not only the melody
of the tune but then when it comes to soloing, he's transposing the cords
and transposing the harmony and modes. Yikes! It's hard for me to imagine
doing, but these folks do it all the time and it's just second nature.
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> Orchestra parts are usually written as the player needs them. So if thetoo.
> clarinetist needs a b flat part, that's what he/she'll get. Conductor,
> So the conductor has to transpose easily. A good player should be able toExcept the horns. We get parts in F, which is what we normally read. And
> transpose in their head from a "c" part, but in reality, not everybody is
> necessarily good at that.
we get parts in almost every other key as well. You learn to do it at
sight. A piece we played last night and today had 4 movements, each in a
different key. I finally wrote out the transpositions for that one. I had
enough to worry about with the rest of the concert that I didn't need that
extra difficulty.
Tia
Tia Leschke
>mind,
> << I guess what I meant was, if a score is written with an orchestra in
> and there is a player of a transposing instrument, the musical notationwill
> either be adjusted for them, or they will just adjust it in their heads asand
> they go, since they are used to playing that particular instrument and are
> accustomed to the transposition problem. >>
>
> They don't do the transposing. They just get their B-flat clarinet music
> play it straight across. ALL music written for clarinets is written thatway.
Except that symphony musicians generally have both a Bb and an A clarinet.
(I think the other one is A, might be C but I don't think so.) When they
get music in the other key, they switch their mouthpiece onto that clarinet.
>anyone
> What I don't know is what jazz musicians who never read music do. If
> knows any non-music-reading clarinet or sax players, I'd be interested inI'm not sure, but I think they just know that if the music is in C (not
> whether they just go with the key the pianist is in!
likely but it's an easier example), the Eb alto sax player is going to have
to play in the key of Ab. The Bb tenor sax player will have to play in D,
and so will the clarinet and trumpet.
Tia