math (was Re: more on college)
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/03 8:53:33 AM, diamondair@... writes:
<< BTW, I didn't have 4 years of math when I started in the CIS
(computer science) program in college. In fact, I didn't have a high
school diploma either (I left high school early because it was such a
waste of time). I had to take many of the math classes concurrently
with the CIS classes, and there were many times when I registered for
a class without having had the math pre-reqs, and just figured it out
as I went along, borrowing textbooks and such. A couple of times, it
caught me and I had to do some real scrambling to catch up, but all
in all when you want/need to know something, you can find a way to do
it. >>
Without even knowing about this thread, the other morning Keith told me a
story about him I had never heard. That happens pretty rarely, with two
talkative people after 25 years.
He said when he first went to college, they had him take math placement
tests. The first set was four pages, one page each of easy arithmetic,
business math, geometry and algebra, I think.
He whipped through it in about 20 minutes. The proctor looked, and sent him
over to another room. There they gave him a similar set, with calculus,
trigononmetry, and something he didn't understand at all--had never seen the
symbols ever.
He said they told him he could start at the junior level of calculus,
skipping the first two years. He didn't want to, not just on the basis of a
few sample questions. So he took calculus, and ended up taking theoretical
stuff for fun, and no math he ever had in college was hard for him.
That's because no math he ever had in high school was hard for him.
That's because no math anyone ever talked to haster Mind, pattern and
deduction stuff.
Keith said he always thought in patterns, and saw patterns in all kinds of
things.
So nobody "taught him math." That's kind of his native brain-language.
People did show him cool tricks and teach him formal notation, though.
Sandra
<< BTW, I didn't have 4 years of math when I started in the CIS
(computer science) program in college. In fact, I didn't have a high
school diploma either (I left high school early because it was such a
waste of time). I had to take many of the math classes concurrently
with the CIS classes, and there were many times when I registered for
a class without having had the math pre-reqs, and just figured it out
as I went along, borrowing textbooks and such. A couple of times, it
caught me and I had to do some real scrambling to catch up, but all
in all when you want/need to know something, you can find a way to do
it. >>
Without even knowing about this thread, the other morning Keith told me a
story about him I had never heard. That happens pretty rarely, with two
talkative people after 25 years.
He said when he first went to college, they had him take math placement
tests. The first set was four pages, one page each of easy arithmetic,
business math, geometry and algebra, I think.
He whipped through it in about 20 minutes. The proctor looked, and sent him
over to another room. There they gave him a similar set, with calculus,
trigononmetry, and something he didn't understand at all--had never seen the
symbols ever.
He said they told him he could start at the junior level of calculus,
skipping the first two years. He didn't want to, not just on the basis of a
few sample questions. So he took calculus, and ended up taking theoretical
stuff for fun, and no math he ever had in college was hard for him.
That's because no math he ever had in high school was hard for him.
That's because no math anyone ever talked to haster Mind, pattern and
deduction stuff.
Keith said he always thought in patterns, and saw patterns in all kinds of
things.
So nobody "taught him math." That's kind of his native brain-language.
People did show him cool tricks and teach him formal notation, though.
Sandra
the_clevengers <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
That's really interesting! Has he read/seen "A Beautiful Mind" yet?
Your post made me think of that book/movie since the main character
thinks in patterns. I thought it was pretty cool how they showed it
graphically in the movie.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
> Keith said he always thought in patterns, and saw patterns in allkinds of
> things.language.
>
> So nobody "taught him math." That's kind of his native brain-
>though.
> People did show him cool tricks and teach him formal notation,
That's really interesting! Has he read/seen "A Beautiful Mind" yet?
Your post made me think of that book/movie since the main character
thinks in patterns. I thought it was pretty cool how they showed it
graphically in the movie.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/30/03 5:46:25 PM, diamondair@... writes:
<< Has he read/seen "A Beautiful Mind" yet?
Your post made me think of that book/movie since the main character
thinks in patterns. >>
He hasn't. If it doesn't involve the end of the world or a nuclear bomb or
cowboys, he doesn't have the attention span to pay attention. He must be ADD.
(hee hee heee....)
Sandra
<< Has he read/seen "A Beautiful Mind" yet?
Your post made me think of that book/movie since the main character
thinks in patterns. >>
He hasn't. If it doesn't involve the end of the world or a nuclear bomb or
cowboys, he doesn't have the attention span to pay attention. He must be ADD.
(hee hee heee....)
Sandra
Kelli Traaseth
SandraDodd@... wrote:
**He hasn't. If it doesn't involve the end of the world or a nuclear bomb or
cowboys, he doesn't have the attention span to pay attention**
This kind-of goes into something we've been facing in our household lately,
We've discussed on this list and others some good unschooling movies, but what if your child won't watch anything you suggest? I'm dealing with this with my son, he's 9 almost 10. If its not shoot em up, action, action, action, forget it. And he's really having a hard time even trying something when I ask if he'd like to watch it with the rest of us.
We watched Searching for Bobby Fischer, he did enjoy that, because of chess.
Started Finding Forester but he got bored with it, rest of us loved it, he went off to watch Jurassic Park 2 for the 100th time. All by himself. Which also makes me sad, I guess if he doesn't mind being alone its OK?.
Do I keep getting these movies and just watch them with who will watch, leaving him out? Hoping he'll come and join.
I'll try El Cid and maybe A Knights Tale, his favorite right now is The Matrix and of course we've seen Two Towers twice.
I ask him to give these movies a try and alot of times he asks "do I have to?" What would a correct or noncoersive/unschooling response be?
I guess I worry because I have older brothers that are similiar to Alec and they say they felt like they were always on their own, I don't want Alec to feel that way.
Kelli
In a message dated 1/30/03 5:46:25 PM, diamondair@... writes:
<< Has he read/seen "A Beautiful Mind" yet?
Your post made me think of that book/movie since the main character
thinks in patterns. >>
He hasn't. If it doesn't involve the end of the world or a nuclear bomb or
cowboys, he doesn't have the attention span to pay attention. He must be ADD.
(hee hee heee....)
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
**He hasn't. If it doesn't involve the end of the world or a nuclear bomb or
cowboys, he doesn't have the attention span to pay attention**
This kind-of goes into something we've been facing in our household lately,
We've discussed on this list and others some good unschooling movies, but what if your child won't watch anything you suggest? I'm dealing with this with my son, he's 9 almost 10. If its not shoot em up, action, action, action, forget it. And he's really having a hard time even trying something when I ask if he'd like to watch it with the rest of us.
We watched Searching for Bobby Fischer, he did enjoy that, because of chess.
Started Finding Forester but he got bored with it, rest of us loved it, he went off to watch Jurassic Park 2 for the 100th time. All by himself. Which also makes me sad, I guess if he doesn't mind being alone its OK?.
Do I keep getting these movies and just watch them with who will watch, leaving him out? Hoping he'll come and join.
I'll try El Cid and maybe A Knights Tale, his favorite right now is The Matrix and of course we've seen Two Towers twice.
I ask him to give these movies a try and alot of times he asks "do I have to?" What would a correct or noncoersive/unschooling response be?
I guess I worry because I have older brothers that are similiar to Alec and they say they felt like they were always on their own, I don't want Alec to feel that way.
Kelli
In a message dated 1/30/03 5:46:25 PM, diamondair@... writes:
<< Has he read/seen "A Beautiful Mind" yet?
Your post made me think of that book/movie since the main character
thinks in patterns. >>
He hasn't. If it doesn't involve the end of the world or a nuclear bomb or
cowboys, he doesn't have the attention span to pay attention. He must be ADD.
(hee hee heee....)
Sandra
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/31/2003 9:49:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
As for the movies. Get what YOU like and watch and laugh and cry all by your
lonesome for a while. If you're having a great time, eventualy, he'll
probably join you.
Here are some of the movies I rented when Cameron and I began our journey:
Ferris Bueller's Day Off
A Clockwork Orange
1984
Amadeus
The Scarlet Letter (old version)
Life is Beautiful
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
All were good jumping off points for discussion. And all (except Scarlet
Letter) are MY favorites. That was the first few weeks---per Sandra's
suggestion: First step when deschooling, rent movies. Pop popcorn. Eat out at
ethnic restaurants. We did all that.
I realize that Cameron's a little more "compliant" than most. But as he
watched the movies (he got to say at what time we'd watch---late afternoon),
he found that my choices weren't so horrible, and he eventually got to
respect my choices. He would also pick out a few, and I'd watch with him (BUT
I STILL HATE SCARY MOVIES!!!)
If you agree to watch what HE picks out---ask that he agree to watch what YOU
pick out. (Just don't pick out a bunch of "chick flicks"---get something
that'll hold his attention.)
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kellitraas@... writes:
> I ask him to give these movies a try and alot of times he asks "do I haveMy pat answer is, "Of course not. And neither do I."
> to?" What would a correct or noncoersive/unschooling response be?
As for the movies. Get what YOU like and watch and laugh and cry all by your
lonesome for a while. If you're having a great time, eventualy, he'll
probably join you.
Here are some of the movies I rented when Cameron and I began our journey:
Ferris Bueller's Day Off
A Clockwork Orange
1984
Amadeus
The Scarlet Letter (old version)
Life is Beautiful
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
All were good jumping off points for discussion. And all (except Scarlet
Letter) are MY favorites. That was the first few weeks---per Sandra's
suggestion: First step when deschooling, rent movies. Pop popcorn. Eat out at
ethnic restaurants. We did all that.
I realize that Cameron's a little more "compliant" than most. But as he
watched the movies (he got to say at what time we'd watch---late afternoon),
he found that my choices weren't so horrible, and he eventually got to
respect my choices. He would also pick out a few, and I'd watch with him (BUT
I STILL HATE SCARY MOVIES!!!)
If you agree to watch what HE picks out---ask that he agree to watch what YOU
pick out. (Just don't pick out a bunch of "chick flicks"---get something
that'll hold his attention.)
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Thanks Kelly,
I'm kind-of wondering if I like watching movies more than he does, I'll ask him. I am going to try Ferris Bueller, that's one of my dh's and my favs!
Kelli
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:In a message dated 1/31/2003 9:49:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
As for the movies. Get what YOU like and watch and laugh and cry all by your
lonesome for a while. If you're having a great time, eventualy, he'll
probably join you.
Here are some of the movies I rented when Cameron and I began our journey:
Ferris Bueller's Day Off
A Clockwork Orange
1984
Amadeus
The Scarlet Letter (old version)
Life is Beautiful
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
All were good jumping off points for discussion. And all (except Scarlet
Letter) are MY favorites. That was the first few weeks---per Sandra's
suggestion: First step when deschooling, rent movies. Pop popcorn. Eat out at
ethnic restaurants. We did all that.
I realize that Cameron's a little more "compliant" than most. But as he
watched the movies (he got to say at what time we'd watch---late afternoon),
he found that my choices weren't so horrible, and he eventually got to
respect my choices. He would also pick out a few, and I'd watch with him (BUT
I STILL HATE SCARY MOVIES!!!)
If you agree to watch what HE picks out---ask that he agree to watch what YOU
pick out. (Just don't pick out a bunch of "chick flicks"---get something
that'll hold his attention.)
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm kind-of wondering if I like watching movies more than he does, I'll ask him. I am going to try Ferris Bueller, that's one of my dh's and my favs!
Kelli
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:In a message dated 1/31/2003 9:49:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
> I ask him to give these movies a try and alot of times he asks "do I haveMy pat answer is, "Of course not. And neither do I."
> to?" What would a correct or noncoersive/unschooling response be?
As for the movies. Get what YOU like and watch and laugh and cry all by your
lonesome for a while. If you're having a great time, eventualy, he'll
probably join you.
Here are some of the movies I rented when Cameron and I began our journey:
Ferris Bueller's Day Off
A Clockwork Orange
1984
Amadeus
The Scarlet Letter (old version)
Life is Beautiful
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
All were good jumping off points for discussion. And all (except Scarlet
Letter) are MY favorites. That was the first few weeks---per Sandra's
suggestion: First step when deschooling, rent movies. Pop popcorn. Eat out at
ethnic restaurants. We did all that.
I realize that Cameron's a little more "compliant" than most. But as he
watched the movies (he got to say at what time we'd watch---late afternoon),
he found that my choices weren't so horrible, and he eventually got to
respect my choices. He would also pick out a few, and I'd watch with him (BUT
I STILL HATE SCARY MOVIES!!!)
If you agree to watch what HE picks out---ask that he agree to watch what YOU
pick out. (Just don't pick out a bunch of "chick flicks"---get something
that'll hold his attention.)
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/31/03 7:49:45 AM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< Started Finding Forester but he got bored with it, rest of us loved it,
he went off to watch Jurassic Park 2 for the 100th time. All by himself.
Which also makes me sad, I guess if he doesn't mind being alone its OK?. >>
He needed Jurassic Park. Finding Forrester probably touched on NOTHING in
his real life or interests. I liked it, but I write for fun, and I like Sean
Connery.
Even if he DID mind being alone it's okay. He had the free choice to stay or
go. So wherever he was it was because he wanted to be with you.
If he HAS to watch movies with you, you'll lost the joy of knowing that he
WANTED to watch with you.
-=-I'll try El Cid and maybe A Knights Tale, his favorite right now is The
Matrix and of course we've seen Two Towers twice.-=-
El Cid isn't fun for kids unless they're really interested in the Middle
Ages. Some of the plot is hard to follow, so it's just good for the
pageantry and sets and horses and battles the first few viewings. And it's
long. I think it had an intermission. Go with that. <g>
<<I ask him to give these movies a try and alot of times he asks "do I have
to?" What would a correct or noncoersive/unschooling response be?>>
Yikes.
I wouldn't ask him to give them a try. I would just turn it on and be busy
in the room, and see if he comes in. If you're watching it without him, you
could call him in to show him something he might just be interested in.
In El Cid, that would be the single combat to determine which king gets a
city. Or the lifting of the siege of Valencia. And then he can stay or go
when it's over. And if that's all of the movie he ever sees, fine!
If you watch the whole movie and believe he would really like it, you could
state your case and leave it available. If it's time to return it and he
hasn't watched it, don't whine or feel sad. It will still exist in a month
or ten years if he wants to see it.
Sandra
Sandra
<< Started Finding Forester but he got bored with it, rest of us loved it,
he went off to watch Jurassic Park 2 for the 100th time. All by himself.
Which also makes me sad, I guess if he doesn't mind being alone its OK?. >>
He needed Jurassic Park. Finding Forrester probably touched on NOTHING in
his real life or interests. I liked it, but I write for fun, and I like Sean
Connery.
Even if he DID mind being alone it's okay. He had the free choice to stay or
go. So wherever he was it was because he wanted to be with you.
If he HAS to watch movies with you, you'll lost the joy of knowing that he
WANTED to watch with you.
-=-I'll try El Cid and maybe A Knights Tale, his favorite right now is The
Matrix and of course we've seen Two Towers twice.-=-
El Cid isn't fun for kids unless they're really interested in the Middle
Ages. Some of the plot is hard to follow, so it's just good for the
pageantry and sets and horses and battles the first few viewings. And it's
long. I think it had an intermission. Go with that. <g>
<<I ask him to give these movies a try and alot of times he asks "do I have
to?" What would a correct or noncoersive/unschooling response be?>>
Yikes.
I wouldn't ask him to give them a try. I would just turn it on and be busy
in the room, and see if he comes in. If you're watching it without him, you
could call him in to show him something he might just be interested in.
In El Cid, that would be the single combat to determine which king gets a
city. Or the lifting of the siege of Valencia. And then he can stay or go
when it's over. And if that's all of the movie he ever sees, fine!
If you watch the whole movie and believe he would really like it, you could
state your case and leave it available. If it's time to return it and he
hasn't watched it, don't whine or feel sad. It will still exist in a month
or ten years if he wants to see it.
Sandra
Sandra
Kelli Traaseth
Thanks Sandra,
He does love battle scenes and games like Age of Empires, loves strategy, so this is why I thought he might like A Knights Tale or possibly Braveheart, Wallace is in Age of Empires. Although he has a hard time when a main character dies, so don't know about Braveheart, thinking on that one.
Its so difficult because I see these things that I think he would really enjoy and then it turns into my agenda and about me. Even tho' I think I'm doing it for him. So there is a fine line between being some sort of a facilitator/showing him what is out there to being controlling. Finding that line and staying to the side that will allow him to follow his passions is what I am really attempting to do right now.
I also need to accept that he might not enjoy the same things that I enjoy.
I guess sometimes I sit and think about all the hurdles I still have to conquer and its hard to see that I have made some progress toward our unschooling goals. (Trying to stay positive!)<g>
Kelli
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
He does love battle scenes and games like Age of Empires, loves strategy, so this is why I thought he might like A Knights Tale or possibly Braveheart, Wallace is in Age of Empires. Although he has a hard time when a main character dies, so don't know about Braveheart, thinking on that one.
Its so difficult because I see these things that I think he would really enjoy and then it turns into my agenda and about me. Even tho' I think I'm doing it for him. So there is a fine line between being some sort of a facilitator/showing him what is out there to being controlling. Finding that line and staying to the side that will allow him to follow his passions is what I am really attempting to do right now.
I also need to accept that he might not enjoy the same things that I enjoy.
I guess sometimes I sit and think about all the hurdles I still have to conquer and its hard to see that I have made some progress toward our unschooling goals. (Trying to stay positive!)<g>
Kelli
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