But do you really need college for that?
Julie Stauffer
<<He does if he wants to do computers>>
But does he really? My brother is 42 and a chemist in a nuclear power
plant. He travels all over the world, giving lectures and explaining his
plant's processes. I think he went to college for about 3 semesters. He
made decent but not exciting grades in school. After he flunked out of
college, he worked at a rice dryer and grain elevator.
What he did do was apply to the nuclear plant, got whatever job they would
give him, and worked and learned. That was it.
Julie
But does he really? My brother is 42 and a chemist in a nuclear power
plant. He travels all over the world, giving lectures and explaining his
plant's processes. I think he went to college for about 3 semesters. He
made decent but not exciting grades in school. After he flunked out of
college, he worked at a rice dryer and grain elevator.
What he did do was apply to the nuclear plant, got whatever job they would
give him, and worked and learned. That was it.
Julie
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/2003 1:57:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jnjstau@... writes:
do that much more easily than a 20 something can now. MANY more people are
college graduate, with advanced degrees even. MOST companies when they
advertise for jobs almost always indicate that a degree is necessary, even if
we KNOW people who are doing that job wonderfully without one right now.
Look in the Washington Post and see all the numerous jobs that want so much
experience AND a degree. Sometimes you wouldn't have had to to get that
degree AND have all that experience they want unless you were forty something
I think! (and many of them are at entry level pay)
I agree that there are many ways to get into a field you are interested in
but in todays market a college degree is way more important than it was
twenty years ago. Some how it seems to get you in the door to show them what
you can do or what you know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jnjstau@... writes:
> But does he really? My brother is 42 and a chemist in a nuclear powerHerein lies a cold fact, people who are of that 40 something generation COULD
> plant. He travels all over the world, giving lectures and explaining his
> plant's processes. I think he went to college for about 3 semesters. He
> made decent but not exciting grades in school. After he flunked out of
> college, he worked at a rice dryer and grain elevator.
>
> What he did do was apply to the nuclear plant, got whatever job they would
> give him, and worked and learned. That was it.
>
>
do that much more easily than a 20 something can now. MANY more people are
college graduate, with advanced degrees even. MOST companies when they
advertise for jobs almost always indicate that a degree is necessary, even if
we KNOW people who are doing that job wonderfully without one right now.
Look in the Washington Post and see all the numerous jobs that want so much
experience AND a degree. Sometimes you wouldn't have had to to get that
degree AND have all that experience they want unless you were forty something
I think! (and many of them are at entry level pay)
I agree that there are many ways to get into a field you are interested in
but in todays market a college degree is way more important than it was
twenty years ago. Some how it seems to get you in the door to show them what
you can do or what you know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
I agree that there are many ways to get into a field you are interested in
but in todays market a college degree is way more important than it was
twenty years ago. Some how it seems to get you in the door to show them what
you can do or what you know.<<
That is true, however if you know someone...that can work very well too.
And I think the trend toward requiring degrees is going to swing the other direction soon. I think businesses are going to start looking for those who are willing to LEARN, even if its on the job.
And I think Homeschoolers and Unschoolers are going to be the ones setting the pace. We are just now becoming known for how we perform (geography bees, spelling bees, etc). Colleges are beginning to take notice of that. Business owners won't be far behind.
This may be a few years off, but we are no longer in the age of information. We are in the age of networking. I'd guess that in about 10 more years, a college degree isn't going to mean nearly as much as it does now to business owners.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
but in todays market a college degree is way more important than it was
twenty years ago. Some how it seems to get you in the door to show them what
you can do or what you know.<<
That is true, however if you know someone...that can work very well too.
And I think the trend toward requiring degrees is going to swing the other direction soon. I think businesses are going to start looking for those who are willing to LEARN, even if its on the job.
And I think Homeschoolers and Unschoolers are going to be the ones setting the pace. We are just now becoming known for how we perform (geography bees, spelling bees, etc). Colleges are beginning to take notice of that. Business owners won't be far behind.
This may be a few years off, but we are no longer in the age of information. We are in the age of networking. I'd guess that in about 10 more years, a college degree isn't going to mean nearly as much as it does now to business owners.
Kristen
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/03 2:32:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
or less? We can't conjecture the future.. and even if we could correctly..
we are really asking questions about the present.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> I'd guess that in about 10 more years, a college degree isn't going to meanThat may be.. but what about kid who will be "college age" in a year or two,
> nearly as much as it does now to business owners
or less? We can't conjecture the future.. and even if we could correctly..
we are really asking questions about the present.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...> wrote: And I think the trend toward requiring degrees is going to swing the other direction soon.
The number of people being homeschooled is growing too so this will have a huge impact on the work population. And the different industries will see the benefits of hiring these homeschoolers!
Kelli is a fortune teller (OK, so that wasn't one from the Googlisms, but I couldn't resist)
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William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The number of people being homeschooled is growing too so this will have a huge impact on the work population. And the different industries will see the benefits of hiring these homeschoolers!
Kelli is a fortune teller (OK, so that wasn't one from the Googlisms, but I couldn't resist)
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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William Wordsworth
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/03 12:03:16 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
<< Look in the Washington Post and see all the numerous jobs that want so
much
experience AND a degree. >>
That's what they're asking of strangers. It might not be what they end up
getting.
<<Herein lies a cold fact, people who are of that 40 something generation
COULD
do that much more easily than a 20 something can now.>>
If you're thinking of computer engineering, probably so.
But if you think of jobs which don't really quite EXIST yet, no college in
the country can prepare anyone for them, and they WILL go to the kids who are
doing that thing, whatever it is, which has hardly been named.
That's how the 60's computer guys who are systems analysists now got their
jobs without degrees. There WERE no computer science degrees then. The
guys who cared about computers as hobbies regardless of whether they could
make money at it or not were in the position to end up making money.
<<MANY more people are
college graduate, with advanced degrees even. >>
Maybe. But there are many more people, and the degrees are pretty widely
considered to be worth less than they used to be, in terms of respect
(despite what they cost in interest on stuent loans).
<<I agree that there are many ways to get into a field you are interested in
but in todays market a college degree is way more important than it was
twenty years ago. Some how it seems to get you in the door to show them what
you can do or what you know.>>
Not in any field I can think of except engineering and computers.
Sandra
<< Look in the Washington Post and see all the numerous jobs that want so
much
experience AND a degree. >>
That's what they're asking of strangers. It might not be what they end up
getting.
<<Herein lies a cold fact, people who are of that 40 something generation
COULD
do that much more easily than a 20 something can now.>>
If you're thinking of computer engineering, probably so.
But if you think of jobs which don't really quite EXIST yet, no college in
the country can prepare anyone for them, and they WILL go to the kids who are
doing that thing, whatever it is, which has hardly been named.
That's how the 60's computer guys who are systems analysists now got their
jobs without degrees. There WERE no computer science degrees then. The
guys who cared about computers as hobbies regardless of whether they could
make money at it or not were in the position to end up making money.
<<MANY more people are
college graduate, with advanced degrees even. >>
Maybe. But there are many more people, and the degrees are pretty widely
considered to be worth less than they used to be, in terms of respect
(despite what they cost in interest on stuent loans).
<<I agree that there are many ways to get into a field you are interested in
but in todays market a college degree is way more important than it was
twenty years ago. Some how it seems to get you in the door to show them what
you can do or what you know.>>
Not in any field I can think of except engineering and computers.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/03 4:49:50 PM, grlynbl@... writes:
<< That may be.. but what about kid who will be "college age" in a year or
two,
or less? We can't conjecture the future.. and even if we could correctly..
we are really asking questions about the present. >>
Two years from not is still the future. And four years after he graduates?
Future.
Sandra
<< That may be.. but what about kid who will be "college age" in a year or
two,
or less? We can't conjecture the future.. and even if we could correctly..
we are really asking questions about the present. >>
Two years from not is still the future. And four years after he graduates?
Future.
Sandra
the_clevengers <[email protected]>
Just for kicks, I put a poll in the Polls area about how people have
used their college degrees, if at all. It might be fun to see how
many of us have actually used that piece of paper...
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
used their college degrees, if at all. It might be fun to see how
many of us have actually used that piece of paper...
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/30/2003 7:55:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
diamondair@... writes:
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diamondair@... writes:
> Just for kicks, I put a poll in the Polls area about how people haveWhatcha want to do with those of us who have no degree? The drop-outs? <G>
> used their college degrees, if at all. It might be fun to see how
> many of us have actually used that piece of paper...
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the_clevengers <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:
those of us who actually paid for that piece of paper, how has it
been used (if at all). I'm of the mind that college can be great -
can be really fun, a place to find new interests and be exposed to
new people, etc. But as for it's utility in pursuing your life's
passion, it's probably a mixed bag. Just wanted to test out my
hypothesis...
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
> Whatcha want to do with those of us who have no degree? The drop-outs? <G>
>I added an answer for no degree. Mostly I just wanted to see, out of
> ~Kelly
those of us who actually paid for that piece of paper, how has it
been used (if at all). I'm of the mind that college can be great -
can be really fun, a place to find new interests and be exposed to
new people, etc. But as for it's utility in pursuing your life's
passion, it's probably a mixed bag. Just wanted to test out my
hypothesis...
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/30/03 6:17:19 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< > Just for kicks, I put a poll in the Polls area about how people have
I taught school which I couldn't have done without the degree.
But I don't like the question. If it is JUST "used that piece of paper,"
someone used a piece of paper on me the other day to try to win an argument
in an online forum. (It didn't work, but they "used" it, or at least the
report of having the piece of paper.)
Do I use what I learned in college?
Every single day.
Last week I got a call from someone I met in college. A month ago I got a
long chatty e-mail with an important question from someone I met in college.
Does that count?
I studied anthropology. I had NO idea what it was before I went to college.
I loved it. All my thoughts about culture and mothering and the role of
children as children or as "humans" (members of the society) come through
that filter of what I learned in cultural anthropology.
What I learned in Shakespeare classes (I eventually took four of those) is
that even the greatest professors are sometimes guessing. And sometimes
guesses are later proven to have been lame or plainly wrong. (That message
was reinforced as I learned more about dictionaries and the history of words
and about religion and the source materials involved with that, but it was in
a Shakespeare class that the light came on and examples flooded in from
everywhere.)
Monday I was playing Renaissance music with three friends. I had a music
teacher teach me recorder (I could play recorder, but he taught me to play it
as it was played in the baroque, as a serious solo instrument) and he treated
me like I had just as much potential to do that as anyone ever had.
I was assigned to read John Holt there.
In applied psychology classes I learned lots of things about how learning
works. And in volunteering to be the subject in lots of psychology
experiments about learning and patterns and such, I learned about how those
tests work and what's valid about them and what's totally goofy about them
sometimes. How flawed a correspondence type of "proof" can really be. "We
have a correlation." Not always an impressive claim.
I can throw pottery. Haven't for a long time, but liked it lots when I was.
Some of those things I might have come to anyway. Had I not been there, I
might have found the things elsewhere.
I've worked some jobs that needed no college degree, after I had one.
Employers always seemed nervous, like I would bolt on them any second for
being "over qualified." But what I had learned in college wasn't helping me
do what they were paying me to do. I learned that stuff where I was.
College, if a kid wants to go there, provides lots more than the degree. If
we believe in learning over paper, we should be the first in line to say
happy, voluntary college attendance can change a life even if the kid "fails"
at completion of a degree.
If we say "You want to take a class? Great! have fun!"
or... "Do you want to go there full time for a while? Go for it!"
we can help enable winners.
If we do the same traditional mean stuff and say that FIRST they need to know
what degree they want and THEN they need to buckle down and not socialize,
and not take fun artsy classes, and THEN press them to finish quickly...
and tell them and all our relatives for decades that they screwed up and
didn't finish, if they don't have a degree, then what will we have learned
from unschooling?
Dabbling is a glory. Should someone want to commit to eat a whole bowl of
frosting or whipped cream just to stick a finger onto the edge of the bowl
and taste it?
Sandra
<< > Just for kicks, I put a poll in the Polls area about how people have
> used their college degrees, if at all. It might be fun to see how"Used" the degree?
> many of us have actually used that piece of paper... >>
I taught school which I couldn't have done without the degree.
But I don't like the question. If it is JUST "used that piece of paper,"
someone used a piece of paper on me the other day to try to win an argument
in an online forum. (It didn't work, but they "used" it, or at least the
report of having the piece of paper.)
Do I use what I learned in college?
Every single day.
Last week I got a call from someone I met in college. A month ago I got a
long chatty e-mail with an important question from someone I met in college.
Does that count?
I studied anthropology. I had NO idea what it was before I went to college.
I loved it. All my thoughts about culture and mothering and the role of
children as children or as "humans" (members of the society) come through
that filter of what I learned in cultural anthropology.
What I learned in Shakespeare classes (I eventually took four of those) is
that even the greatest professors are sometimes guessing. And sometimes
guesses are later proven to have been lame or plainly wrong. (That message
was reinforced as I learned more about dictionaries and the history of words
and about religion and the source materials involved with that, but it was in
a Shakespeare class that the light came on and examples flooded in from
everywhere.)
Monday I was playing Renaissance music with three friends. I had a music
teacher teach me recorder (I could play recorder, but he taught me to play it
as it was played in the baroque, as a serious solo instrument) and he treated
me like I had just as much potential to do that as anyone ever had.
I was assigned to read John Holt there.
In applied psychology classes I learned lots of things about how learning
works. And in volunteering to be the subject in lots of psychology
experiments about learning and patterns and such, I learned about how those
tests work and what's valid about them and what's totally goofy about them
sometimes. How flawed a correspondence type of "proof" can really be. "We
have a correlation." Not always an impressive claim.
I can throw pottery. Haven't for a long time, but liked it lots when I was.
Some of those things I might have come to anyway. Had I not been there, I
might have found the things elsewhere.
I've worked some jobs that needed no college degree, after I had one.
Employers always seemed nervous, like I would bolt on them any second for
being "over qualified." But what I had learned in college wasn't helping me
do what they were paying me to do. I learned that stuff where I was.
College, if a kid wants to go there, provides lots more than the degree. If
we believe in learning over paper, we should be the first in line to say
happy, voluntary college attendance can change a life even if the kid "fails"
at completion of a degree.
If we say "You want to take a class? Great! have fun!"
or... "Do you want to go there full time for a while? Go for it!"
we can help enable winners.
If we do the same traditional mean stuff and say that FIRST they need to know
what degree they want and THEN they need to buckle down and not socialize,
and not take fun artsy classes, and THEN press them to finish quickly...
and tell them and all our relatives for decades that they screwed up and
didn't finish, if they don't have a degree, then what will we have learned
from unschooling?
Dabbling is a glory. Should someone want to commit to eat a whole bowl of
frosting or whipped cream just to stick a finger onto the edge of the bowl
and taste it?
Sandra
the_clevengers <[email protected]>
OOPS. When I changed the poll, I wiped out all previous votes.
SOrry! If you voted before, you'll need to do so again.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
--- In [email protected], "the_clevengers
<diamondair@e...>" <diamondair@e...> wrote:
SOrry! If you voted before, you'll need to do so again.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
--- In [email protected], "the_clevengers
<diamondair@e...>" <diamondair@e...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:of
> > Whatcha want to do with those of us who have no degree? The drop-
> outs? <G>
> >
> > ~Kelly
>
> I added an answer for no degree. Mostly I just wanted to see, out
> those of us who actually paid for that piece of paper, how has it
> been used (if at all). I'm of the mind that college can be great -
> can be really fun, a place to find new interests and be exposed to
> new people, etc. But as for it's utility in pursuing your life's
> passion, it's probably a mixed bag. Just wanted to test out my
> hypothesis...
>
> Blue Skies,
> -Robin-
the_clevengers <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
friends I met in the dorms to that cool English lit teacher who
sparked an interest in poetry, to my awesome swimming coach who
changed my whole life.
But that doesn't change my hypothesis that having the piece of paper
is no guarantee of a job in the specific field that the piece of
paper says you're qualified in. I think lots people are often hung
up on the idea of acquiring that paper (or having their kids acquire
it), not based on the idea that you can learn lots of really cool
stuff in college, but based on the idea that the paper saying you're
qualified in Field X is necessary to get a job in Field X. For me,
while I loved college and would whole-heartedly recommend it to
anyone, my kids included, just for the experiences you gain there, I
also don't see the pursuit of that piece of paper as absolutely
necessary for gainful employment in the field of one's passion. Many
folks I know were never actually employed in the field that they
chose to get a degree in (myself included). Many people with a
passion in a particular field would be better served learning that
field in another way, whether or not they also go to college (myself
probably included). Many people find their life's passion many years
after acquiring the piece of paper. That doesn't mean college isn't
cool, fun, or a great place to learn about a variety of things, or
even necessary for some pursuits.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
> But I don't like the question. If it is JUST "used that piece ofpaper,"
> someone used a piece of paper on me the other day to try to win anargument
> in an online forum. (It didn't work, but they "used" it, or atleast the
> report of having the piece of paper.)Point well taken. I also feel like I got a lot out of college, from
>
> Do I use what I learned in college?
>
> Every single day.
friends I met in the dorms to that cool English lit teacher who
sparked an interest in poetry, to my awesome swimming coach who
changed my whole life.
But that doesn't change my hypothesis that having the piece of paper
is no guarantee of a job in the specific field that the piece of
paper says you're qualified in. I think lots people are often hung
up on the idea of acquiring that paper (or having their kids acquire
it), not based on the idea that you can learn lots of really cool
stuff in college, but based on the idea that the paper saying you're
qualified in Field X is necessary to get a job in Field X. For me,
while I loved college and would whole-heartedly recommend it to
anyone, my kids included, just for the experiences you gain there, I
also don't see the pursuit of that piece of paper as absolutely
necessary for gainful employment in the field of one's passion. Many
folks I know were never actually employed in the field that they
chose to get a degree in (myself included). Many people with a
passion in a particular field would be better served learning that
field in another way, whether or not they also go to college (myself
probably included). Many people find their life's passion many years
after acquiring the piece of paper. That doesn't mean college isn't
cool, fun, or a great place to learn about a variety of things, or
even necessary for some pursuits.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/30/03 7:56:12 PM, diamondair@... writes:
<< I
also don't see the pursuit of that piece of paper as absolutely
necessary for gainful employment in the field of one's passion. Many
folks I know were never actually employed in the field that they
chose to get a degree in (myself included). >>
I agree.
I feel greatly for people who ALMOST get a degree. Just a class or test or
essay (that story about the spelling was scary) or dissertation away after
all that time and money.
It's a problem; it's not clear and easy.
Sandra
<< I
also don't see the pursuit of that piece of paper as absolutely
necessary for gainful employment in the field of one's passion. Many
folks I know were never actually employed in the field that they
chose to get a degree in (myself included). >>
I agree.
I feel greatly for people who ALMOST get a degree. Just a class or test or
essay (that story about the spelling was scary) or dissertation away after
all that time and money.
It's a problem; it's not clear and easy.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/30/03 9:01:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
the rest of the saying is "master of none" I dont like that part.. LOL. I
like to think I am a "master" of quiet a few.. particularly the ones I enjoy
:-) I think I've turned "dabbling" into an art..
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Dabbling is a glory. Should someone want to commit to eat a whole bowl ofSandra, I LOVE this statement. It's like "Jack of all trades" of course,
> frosting or whipped cream just to stick a finger onto the edge of the bowl
> and taste it?
>
the rest of the saying is "master of none" I dont like that part.. LOL. I
like to think I am a "master" of quiet a few.. particularly the ones I enjoy
:-) I think I've turned "dabbling" into an art..
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]