Joyce/Acceptable for Group?
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/2003 3:49:34 PM Central Standard Time,
deb@... writes:
I need to verification that this is acceptable here.
Linda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
deb@... writes:
> In a message dated 1/27/03 10:19:36 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:I cannot believe this is on unschooling. com.
>
> <<I'm sure there are others I'm not registering right now. Anyone care to
> add? >>
>
> prick
> cock
> schmuck
>
> Jesus or any forms of names of God/Christ casually used ("in vain")
>
> You can say those things behind people's backs in private ("I wish that
> dumbass prick would shut the fuck up") to vent, but you can't say any part
> of
> it in front of strangers or to the person's face. Unless they're friends
> of
> yours.
>
> Sandra
>
> Joyce, is this acceptable?
I need to verification that this is acceptable here.
Linda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/2003 5:23:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
encadia@... writes:
weren't directed at one individual (or many individuals). It's a discussion
about words.They're WORDS. They harm no one.
Joyce?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
encadia@... writes:
> Joyce, is this acceptable?NOTJoyce, But I would think any language would be acceptable as long as it
> I cannot believe this is on unschooling. com.
> I need to verification that this is acceptable here.
>
> Linda
weren't directed at one individual (or many individuals). It's a discussion
about words.They're WORDS. They harm no one.
Joyce?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/03 3:35:25 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< It's a discussion
about words.They're WORDS. They harm no one. >>
Apparently at least two people were grievously harmed.
They both quoted my post and nobody else's, so I assume they believe I was
the one who harmed them.
Actually Shyrley did.
Shyrley, now that you're in America, don't even ask questions about language,
okay?
We as a nation can bomb the heck out of women and children, but we can
neither hear, read, speak or write "fuck."
Sandra
<< It's a discussion
about words.They're WORDS. They harm no one. >>
Apparently at least two people were grievously harmed.
They both quoted my post and nobody else's, so I assume they believe I was
the one who harmed them.
Actually Shyrley did.
Shyrley, now that you're in America, don't even ask questions about language,
okay?
We as a nation can bomb the heck out of women and children, but we can
neither hear, read, speak or write "fuck."
Sandra
Shyrley
SandraDodd@... wrote:
We can write f***. Now I don't know about you, but when I read f*** my mind says the word....
Shyrley who will stop and go away now and be shamed and isn't fit for middle class America
> In a message dated 1/27/03 3:35:25 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:Hey, I'm waiting to be jailed for bad words, without an attorney and indefinately too. Thats acceptable here I noticed.
>
> << It's a discussion
> about words.They're WORDS. They harm no one. >>
>
> Apparently at least two people were grievously harmed.
>
> They both quoted my post and nobody else's, so I assume they believe I was
> the one who harmed them.
>
> Actually Shyrley did.
> Shyrley, now that you're in America, don't even ask questions about language,
> okay?
>
> We as a nation can bomb the heck out of women and children, but we can
> neither hear, read, speak or write "fuck."
>
> Sandra
>
We can write f***. Now I don't know about you, but when I read f*** my mind says the word....
Shyrley who will stop and go away now and be shamed and isn't fit for middle class America
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/03 5:40:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
routine, bedtime, command, NO, punish, text book, " Any more unschooling bad
words that folks have been warned to avoid? How utterly hypocritical to
complain and berate others who are uncomfortable with derogatory terms when
you dole out censorship on practical every day terms that do much less "harm"
than calling someone a dumbass prick, even if it is behind thier back.
Curse and slang words dont bother me at all. My family and I use them when
and where ever we feel inclined to. But, if the arguement is. "they're just
words" applies to some words, then it must apply to all. .. including your no
no list for unschooling. If more appropiate words can be used for the terms
that are inappropiate to unschooling, then surely, other suitable words
could be replaced for the ones youve listed as "bad words" and made such a
fuss over thier unacceptabability by society.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> We as a nation can bomb the heck out of women and children, but we canI'de much rather "fuck" be avoided that "practice, teach, lesson, chore,
> neither hear, read, speak or write "fuck."
>
> Sandra
>
routine, bedtime, command, NO, punish, text book, " Any more unschooling bad
words that folks have been warned to avoid? How utterly hypocritical to
complain and berate others who are uncomfortable with derogatory terms when
you dole out censorship on practical every day terms that do much less "harm"
than calling someone a dumbass prick, even if it is behind thier back.
Curse and slang words dont bother me at all. My family and I use them when
and where ever we feel inclined to. But, if the arguement is. "they're just
words" applies to some words, then it must apply to all. .. including your no
no list for unschooling. If more appropiate words can be used for the terms
that are inappropiate to unschooling, then surely, other suitable words
could be replaced for the ones youve listed as "bad words" and made such a
fuss over thier unacceptabability by society.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/2003 6:09:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
grlynbl@... writes:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
grlynbl@... writes:
> I'de much rather "fuck" be avoided that "practice, teach, lesson, chore,Curriculum.
> routine, bedtime, command, NO, punish, text book, " Any more unschooling
> bad
> words that folks have been warned to avoid?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/2003 6:09:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
grlynbl@... writes:
The whole point of avoiding THOSE words has to do with an unschooling
mindset. If you can take THOSE words out of your vocabulary, you can more
easily SEE unschooling. It's difficult. It's part of the paradigm shift.
IFyou can let go of THOSE words, you'll be able to "get it". THAT'S the
point of banning "textbooks, NO, curriculum, practice, obedience", et al. And
we CAN substitute other words for those: YES. Real books. Do. TV. Principles.
This is IMPORTANT.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
grlynbl@... writes:
> But, if the arguement is. "they're justTeresa,
> words" applies to some words, then it must apply to all. .. including your
> no
> no list for unschooling. If more appropiate words can be used for the
> terms
> that are inappropiate to unschooling, then surely, other suitable words
> could be replaced for the ones youve listed as "bad words" and made such a
> fuss over thier unacceptabability by society.
>
The whole point of avoiding THOSE words has to do with an unschooling
mindset. If you can take THOSE words out of your vocabulary, you can more
easily SEE unschooling. It's difficult. It's part of the paradigm shift.
IFyou can let go of THOSE words, you'll be able to "get it". THAT'S the
point of banning "textbooks, NO, curriculum, practice, obedience", et al. And
we CAN substitute other words for those: YES. Real books. Do. TV. Principles.
This is IMPORTANT.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/03 4:08:59 PM, grlynbl@... writes:
<< If more appropiate words can be used for the terms
that are inappropiate to unschooling, then surely, other suitable words
could be replaced for the ones youve listed as "bad words" and made such a
fuss over thier unacceptabability by society.
Yes. That's what the whole conversation was about. Every word has its
euphemisms in Society.
But those words don't have to do with learning theory.
If this were a Christian clean-language yahoogroup, then we wouldn't need to
discuss what the replacement words were. We would all know them. We could
discuss whether "darn" was too rough for polite conversation.
But if one has never, ever ONCE considered the difference between teaching
and learning, the utter NON application of "teaching" to natural learning,
then they will have a very difficult time even imagining how someone could
learn without a teacher.
If they can't imagine that, if they cannot come to SEE it clearly, they will
not be able to unschool.
If you have unschooling ideas or experiences to offer this list, please offer
them.
Sandra
<< If more appropiate words can be used for the terms
that are inappropiate to unschooling, then surely, other suitable words
could be replaced for the ones youve listed as "bad words" and made such a
fuss over thier unacceptabability by society.
>>Yada yada.
Yes. That's what the whole conversation was about. Every word has its
euphemisms in Society.
But those words don't have to do with learning theory.
If this were a Christian clean-language yahoogroup, then we wouldn't need to
discuss what the replacement words were. We would all know them. We could
discuss whether "darn" was too rough for polite conversation.
But if one has never, ever ONCE considered the difference between teaching
and learning, the utter NON application of "teaching" to natural learning,
then they will have a very difficult time even imagining how someone could
learn without a teacher.
If they can't imagine that, if they cannot come to SEE it clearly, they will
not be able to unschool.
If you have unschooling ideas or experiences to offer this list, please offer
them.
Sandra
[email protected]
On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:07:31 EST grlynbl@... writes:
then surely, other suitable words
could be replaced for the ones youve listed as "bad words" and made such
a
fuss over their unacceptabability by society.
Ok I'm jumping in without an intro,
Please don't shoot!
My kids have come up with replacements like:
"you inhale wind at a fast rate"
"I'll use my anal glands to blow foul tainted wind in your general
direction"
warped and I don't see it as an improvement.
Sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
then surely, other suitable words
could be replaced for the ones youve listed as "bad words" and made such
a
fuss over their unacceptabability by society.
Ok I'm jumping in without an intro,
Please don't shoot!
My kids have come up with replacements like:
"you inhale wind at a fast rate"
"I'll use my anal glands to blow foul tainted wind in your general
direction"
warped and I don't see it as an improvement.
Sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:34:03 EST kbcdlovejo@... writes:
share the information on this list with their young children. The lack of
any notice in the subject line could cause embarrassment or offense. At
least if dh's biker buds are coming over, I know in advance to take the
girls for a walk or something. I'll admit, I was blushing, growing up in
a house with absolutely no swearing tolerated. You had to B.M. or tinkle.
You could not "fart", but must go to the bathroom to "toot". My dd was
warned against rhyming in front of Grandma. She often dropped "bad"
words when rhyming duck, stuck, f***, or itch, stitch, b****, and Grandma
would look at me and say "you are going to allow that?!?!" DD would just
wonder "allow what?" She had no clue. Ironically though, after spending
the day with Grandma who has cable and the Disney channel, both dd's came
home with some not-so-refined sayings such as butt-sniffer, retard, and
shut-up, to name a few, things they would never be subjected to in our
house.
Wende (who's cheeks are just a slightly lighter shade of crimson now)
________________________________________________________________
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> NOTJoyce, But I would think any language would be acceptable as longWhile they may not harm anyone, some people (myself included) read and
> as it weren't directed at one individual (or many individuals). It's a
> discussion about words.They're WORDS. They harm no one.
share the information on this list with their young children. The lack of
any notice in the subject line could cause embarrassment or offense. At
least if dh's biker buds are coming over, I know in advance to take the
girls for a walk or something. I'll admit, I was blushing, growing up in
a house with absolutely no swearing tolerated. You had to B.M. or tinkle.
You could not "fart", but must go to the bathroom to "toot". My dd was
warned against rhyming in front of Grandma. She often dropped "bad"
words when rhyming duck, stuck, f***, or itch, stitch, b****, and Grandma
would look at me and say "you are going to allow that?!?!" DD would just
wonder "allow what?" She had no clue. Ironically though, after spending
the day with Grandma who has cable and the Disney channel, both dd's came
home with some not-so-refined sayings such as butt-sniffer, retard, and
shut-up, to name a few, things they would never be subjected to in our
house.
Wende (who's cheeks are just a slightly lighter shade of crimson now)
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
Tia Leschke
>bad
> I'de much rather "fuck" be avoided that "practice, teach, lesson, chore,
> routine, bedtime, command, NO, punish, text book, " Any more unschooling
> words that folks have been warned to avoid? How utterly hypocritical towhen
> complain and berate others who are uncomfortable with derogatory terms
> you dole out censorship on practical every day terms that do much less"harm"
> than calling someone a dumbass prick, even if it is behind thier back.Did I miss something? I don't remember ever hearing a rule about those
words. I've read *suggestions* here that if people stopped using those
words they'd find their way to unschooling faster.
Tia
kayb85 <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:
anything wrong with saying certain words. I mean, really, why is it
ok to say poop but not sh**? It is an interesting discussion. Where
did the taboo words come from? Is there a reason that fu** or sh**
are worse words than intercourse or poop?
Sheila
> In a message dated 1/27/2003 5:23:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,long as it
> encadia@a... writes:
>
>
> > Joyce, is this acceptable?
> > I cannot believe this is on unschooling. com.
> > I need to verification that this is acceptable here.
> >
> > Linda
>
> NOTJoyce, But I would think any language would be acceptable as
> weren't directed at one individual (or many individuals). It's adiscussion
> about words.They're WORDS. They harm no one.The whole discussion was to make a point that there really isn't
>
> Joyce?
>
> ~Kelly
anything wrong with saying certain words. I mean, really, why is it
ok to say poop but not sh**? It is an interesting discussion. Where
did the taboo words come from? Is there a reason that fu** or sh**
are worse words than intercourse or poop?
Sheila
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/03 4:50:02 PM, sheran@... writes:
<< Is there a reason that fu** or sh**
are worse words than intercourse or poop? >>
In many cases (like your first set, "the f word" and "intercourse) the Anglo
Saxon word is overridden by theword that came from the Norman French or from
Latin.
In this case, "intercourse" is from Latin and is the "scientific" term,
shortened from "sexual intercourse" which is itself a euphemism for the
plainer Latin word "coitus."
Shit is also Anglo Saxon (meaning its been in English since before the Norman
Conquest, which means 1000 years old and maybe more). "Poop," I have no
idea. "Bowel movement" is like "sexual intercourse" in a way. Long and
technical and vague.
Sandra
<< Is there a reason that fu** or sh**
are worse words than intercourse or poop? >>
In many cases (like your first set, "the f word" and "intercourse) the Anglo
Saxon word is overridden by theword that came from the Norman French or from
Latin.
In this case, "intercourse" is from Latin and is the "scientific" term,
shortened from "sexual intercourse" which is itself a euphemism for the
plainer Latin word "coitus."
Shit is also Anglo Saxon (meaning its been in English since before the Norman
Conquest, which means 1000 years old and maybe more). "Poop," I have no
idea. "Bowel movement" is like "sexual intercourse" in a way. Long and
technical and vague.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/03 4:52:10 PM, love-it-here@... writes:
<< While they may not harm anyone, some people (myself included) read and
share the information on this list with their young children. >>
Indiscriminately?
I share books and movies with my young children, but not without looking at
the subject matter first.
If they can read over your shoulder and see "Acceptable for Group?" that
won't burn their eyes.
<<You could not "fart", but must go to the bathroom to "toot".>>
WOW!
My mom called it "tooting" too but we did it happily in front of the TV or
MOST happily in the bathtub!!!
Sandra
<< While they may not harm anyone, some people (myself included) read and
share the information on this list with their young children. >>
Indiscriminately?
I share books and movies with my young children, but not without looking at
the subject matter first.
If they can read over your shoulder and see "Acceptable for Group?" that
won't burn their eyes.
<<You could not "fart", but must go to the bathroom to "toot".>>
WOW!
My mom called it "tooting" too but we did it happily in front of the TV or
MOST happily in the bathtub!!!
Sandra
Have a Nice Day!
Can anyone refresh my memory on what the letters in F*CK stand for?
I know it is an acronym that came from some kind of royal decree or something.
Anyone know?
Kristen
I know it is an acronym that came from some kind of royal decree or something.
Anyone know?
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: kayb85 <sheran@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 6:48 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Joyce/Acceptable for Group?
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/27/2003 5:23:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> encadia@a... writes:
>
>
> > Joyce, is this acceptable?
> > I cannot believe this is on unschooling. com.
> > I need to verification that this is acceptable here.
> >
> > Linda
>
> NOTJoyce, But I would think any language would be acceptable as
long as it
> weren't directed at one individual (or many individuals). It's a
discussion
> about words.They're WORDS. They harm no one.
>
> Joyce?
>
> ~Kelly
The whole discussion was to make a point that there really isn't
anything wrong with saying certain words. I mean, really, why is it
ok to say poop but not sh**? It is an interesting discussion. Where
did the taboo words come from? Is there a reason that fu** or sh**
are worse words than intercourse or poop?
Sheila
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/03 5:05:30 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< Can anyone refresh my memory on what the letters in F*CK stand for?
I know it is an acronym that came from some kind of royal decree or
something. >>
There are some made-up things, but it's not true. It's been that word since
long before the time of acronyms.
Sandra
<< Can anyone refresh my memory on what the letters in F*CK stand for?
I know it is an acronym that came from some kind of royal decree or
something. >>
There are some made-up things, but it's not true. It's been that word since
long before the time of acronyms.
Sandra
[email protected]
On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:50:20 -0500 Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...>
writes:
you misfits to make me feel normal.
All the stuff I read on this list hits so close to home. I wish we all
could climb the trees together with rainbow colored hair.
I'm just east of Denver, CO where the trees are so small they couldn't
hold my weight. I always wanted pink hair since before Missing Persons
was popular, but never had the guts. Well, I did dip the ends in pink
once when I was doing my daughter's hair, but it's just not the same. My
daughter's hair changes color on a regular basis, I'm so proud. She could
use some unschooln friends cause the public school friends she has just
don't seem to fill her needs, and the homeschoolers round here might just
think we're freaks. My 15yo son freaked the other day about me not
forcing him to do math all these years. I had to point out how he can do
math and if or when he needs to use it every day it'll come faster to
him, and how, as he stood there playing some riff on his guitar, he's
learned all these other wonderful things during the time "I've waisted"
not forcing him to do math. I think I got my point across but he let me
know he'll still blame me for everything anyway. It'll always be "Mom's
fault", I can live with that. My youngest son is 12 and still isn't
comfortable reading, but he's not uncomfortable not reading:-). He knows
so much about so many different things but hasn't learned too much, if
any of it, from a book. We're big Simpsons fans, hell, we're big TV fans
and the night owls at our house even watch South Park. We're not as
together as some of you sound to be but we're doing ok. For these and
many more reasons, when I sit here and listen to what you're all saying I
feel at home. The timing of some of these posts are so perfect it's
scary.
Pardon my run-on sentences, I had to get that out.
Sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
>Shyrley who will stop and go away now and be shamed and isn't fit forWhy Shyrley you're kidding. Please don't go. I need you and the rest of
>middle class America
you misfits to make me feel normal.
All the stuff I read on this list hits so close to home. I wish we all
could climb the trees together with rainbow colored hair.
I'm just east of Denver, CO where the trees are so small they couldn't
hold my weight. I always wanted pink hair since before Missing Persons
was popular, but never had the guts. Well, I did dip the ends in pink
once when I was doing my daughter's hair, but it's just not the same. My
daughter's hair changes color on a regular basis, I'm so proud. She could
use some unschooln friends cause the public school friends she has just
don't seem to fill her needs, and the homeschoolers round here might just
think we're freaks. My 15yo son freaked the other day about me not
forcing him to do math all these years. I had to point out how he can do
math and if or when he needs to use it every day it'll come faster to
him, and how, as he stood there playing some riff on his guitar, he's
learned all these other wonderful things during the time "I've waisted"
not forcing him to do math. I think I got my point across but he let me
know he'll still blame me for everything anyway. It'll always be "Mom's
fault", I can live with that. My youngest son is 12 and still isn't
comfortable reading, but he's not uncomfortable not reading:-). He knows
so much about so many different things but hasn't learned too much, if
any of it, from a book. We're big Simpsons fans, hell, we're big TV fans
and the night owls at our house even watch South Park. We're not as
together as some of you sound to be but we're doing ok. For these and
many more reasons, when I sit here and listen to what you're all saying I
feel at home. The timing of some of these posts are so perfect it's
scary.
Pardon my run-on sentences, I had to get that out.
Sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Joyce/Acceptable for Group?
In a message dated 1/27/03 5:05:30 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< Can anyone refresh my memory on what the letters in F*CK stand for?
I know it is an acronym that came from some kind of royal decree or
something. >>
There are some made-up things, but it's not true. It's been that word since
long before the time of acronyms.<<<
Really??? I was sure it was an acronym. Oh well...LOL
Kristen
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/03 7:03:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
to discharge an 18 year old girl from the hospital and asked her if she had a
BM after surgery. She looked puzzled and said "what?" he assumed she hadn't
heard him and repeated...have you had a BM. She looked at him and he laughed
and said "Did you have a shit yet" very loudly. I almost lost my lunch. She
laughed and said Oh....yes.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> "Bowel movement" is like "sexual intercourse" in a way. Long andReminds me of when I was a nurse on a med-surg floor. A surgeon was trying
> technical and vague.
>
>
to discharge an 18 year old girl from the hospital and asked her if she had a
BM after surgery. She looked puzzled and said "what?" he assumed she hadn't
heard him and repeated...have you had a BM. She looked at him and he laughed
and said "Did you have a shit yet" very loudly. I almost lost my lunch. She
laughed and said Oh....yes.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 1/27/03 5:22 PM, encadia@... at encadia@... wrote:
me.
Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator
> Joyce, is this acceptable?Seems like a discussion of language and culture (though not Culture ;-) to
> I cannot believe this is on unschooling. com.
> I need to verification that this is acceptable here.
me.
Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator
[email protected]
On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:04:05 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
specifically, "Shut up". "Shut up" is something we have been discussing
after the visit with Grandma that I previously posted about, and I have
been following this thread with dd.
anything about dd's eyes burning. I did admit that I was embarrassed, and
explained why. While dd does look over my shoulder, she does not read
anything more than short words, and asks me what is said. I will not lie,
and prefer not to sensor. I was caught off guard, and I think others were
too. I did, however, appreciate your
*F* word warning preceding the South Park ditty. After I was by myself at
the computer, I went back and read it out of pure curiosity. I can see
the truth in it, although I can pretty much guarantee I won't be renting
it anytime soon. <grin>
Wende
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> Indiscriminately?Of course not.
> I share books and movies with my young children, but not withoutI was under the impression that the subject was unschooling, or more
> looking at the subject matter first.
specifically, "Shut up". "Shut up" is something we have been discussing
after the visit with Grandma that I previously posted about, and I have
been following this thread with dd.
> If they can read over your shoulder and see "Acceptable for Group?"I'm not sure if this is a question or a statement, but I never said
> that won't burn their eyes.
anything about dd's eyes burning. I did admit that I was embarrassed, and
explained why. While dd does look over my shoulder, she does not read
anything more than short words, and asks me what is said. I will not lie,
and prefer not to sensor. I was caught off guard, and I think others were
too. I did, however, appreciate your
*F* word warning preceding the South Park ditty. After I was by myself at
the computer, I went back and read it out of pure curiosity. I can see
the truth in it, although I can pretty much guarantee I won't be renting
it anytime soon. <grin>
Wende
________________________________________________________________
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Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
Fetteroll
on 1/27/03 6:48 PM, love-it-here@... at love-it-here@... wrote:
remember to warn us in advance when they are going to do something offensive
(by their standards), it's going to be a lot more effective to depend on
ourselves to do the screening. We all have different standards and what one
person finds offensive won't be what someone else does, so even if they
remember to warn us, there are going to be times when they don't realize
that what they're doing could be offensive.
It's a list for adults so it's probably best not to assume the content is G
or E (for gamers ;-).
Joyce
> While they may not harm anyone, some people (myself included) read andIt could. But I think rather than trying to remind a world full of people to
> share the information on this list with their young children. The lack of
> any notice in the subject line could cause embarrassment or offense.
remember to warn us in advance when they are going to do something offensive
(by their standards), it's going to be a lot more effective to depend on
ourselves to do the screening. We all have different standards and what one
person finds offensive won't be what someone else does, so even if they
remember to warn us, there are going to be times when they don't realize
that what they're doing could be offensive.
It's a list for adults so it's probably best not to assume the content is G
or E (for gamers ;-).
Joyce
Fetteroll
on 1/27/03 7:01 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
became the rulers and the Anglo Saxons were the peasants. So anything Anglo
Saxon was vulgar and anything Norman was classy.
It's also why we use one word for the meat (that the Normans ate) and
another word for the animal (that the Anglo Saxon peasants tended):
cow/beef, sheep/mutton, deer/venison, chicken/poultry. (Though we do now use
chicken to refer to the animal and the meat. Perhaps because poultry doesn't
refer to a specific animal meat anymore.)
(And I can't believe this s*** discussion is going on with my name on it. I
don't even use words like that! ;-)
Joyce
> Shit is also Anglo Saxon (meaning its been in English since before the NormanAnd for those who slept through their early English history ;-) the Normans
> Conquest, which means 1000 years old and maybe more).
became the rulers and the Anglo Saxons were the peasants. So anything Anglo
Saxon was vulgar and anything Norman was classy.
It's also why we use one word for the meat (that the Normans ate) and
another word for the animal (that the Anglo Saxon peasants tended):
cow/beef, sheep/mutton, deer/venison, chicken/poultry. (Though we do now use
chicken to refer to the animal and the meat. Perhaps because poultry doesn't
refer to a specific animal meat anymore.)
(And I can't believe this s*** discussion is going on with my name on it. I
don't even use words like that! ;-)
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/28/03 5:26:22 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< Perhaps because poultry doesn't
refer to a specific animal meat anymore.) >>
Isn't poultry used generically for birds?
Are turkeys and ducks and cornish game hens "poultry" (those at the grocery
store)?
Sandra
<< Perhaps because poultry doesn't
refer to a specific animal meat anymore.) >>
Isn't poultry used generically for birds?
Are turkeys and ducks and cornish game hens "poultry" (those at the grocery
store)?
Sandra
Fetteroll
on 1/28/03 12:44 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
eggs.
My French dictionary lists two words for chicken: poussin and poulet.
Pullet is a young chicken. Which came from poulet which was a diminutive of
poul (cock) and refered to a young cock.
Which seems to suggest poultry was specifically chicken. So what did the
Normans call goose and duck meats? And if they didn't have a different name,
why not? And if they did, why did we lose them?
Here's something interesting:
http://www.brokenarrowranch.com/oldsite/What_Is_Venison_/what_is_venison_.ht
m
There's a whole bunch of stuff here:
http://www.towson.edu/~duncan/brmideng.html
> Isn't poultry used generically for birds?My dictionary describes poultry as domesticated fowl raised for meat or
> Are turkeys and ducks and cornish game hens "poultry" (those at the grocery
> store)?
eggs.
My French dictionary lists two words for chicken: poussin and poulet.
Pullet is a young chicken. Which came from poulet which was a diminutive of
poul (cock) and refered to a young cock.
Which seems to suggest poultry was specifically chicken. So what did the
Normans call goose and duck meats? And if they didn't have a different name,
why not? And if they did, why did we lose them?
Here's something interesting:
http://www.brokenarrowranch.com/oldsite/What_Is_Venison_/what_is_venison_.ht
m
> The following is an excerptSo maybe that Gourmet's Guide would answer the other questions too.
> from A GOURMET´S GUIDE -
> FOOD AND DRINK A TO Z,
> John Ayto, p. 368.
> In common with beef, mutton, pork and veal, venison was a term introduced by
> the descendants of the Norman Conquerors of England to refer to the flesh of a
> particular animal used as food. But it has not always meant " deer-meat". At
> first, it referred to the meat of any animal killed in the chase, which could
> include wild boar, hare, and rabbit as well as deer ( "Hares are thought to
> nourish melancholy, yet they are eaten as venison, both roasted and boiled."
> Fynes Moryson, An Itinerary, 1617.) This reflects the word´s origins, in Latin
> venatio, "hunting game"; a derivative of the verb venari, "hunt". Signs of the
> modern narrowing-down in signification to "deer-meat" appear in the late 16th
> century ( "Amongst the common sort of people, nothing is accounted venison but
> the flesh of red and fallow deer," John Manwood, A Treatise of the Laws of the
> Forest, 1598), but wider options remained open well into the 19th century ( "
> a haunch of Kangaroo venison" , Godfrey Mundy, Our Antipodes, 1852).In 1983,
> Broken Arrow Ranch worked with the USDA to refine the definition of "venison"
> for meat labeling purposes. After a great deal of research and discussion, it
> was agreed that the term "venison" could be used for labeling meat derived
> from members of the deer and antelope families.
There's a whole bunch of stuff here:
http://www.towson.edu/~duncan/brmideng.html
> Heavy borrowing from French occurred in two phases:Joyce
>
> 1. 1066-1250. About 900 words were borrowed during this phase, with most of
> them showing the effects of Anglo-Norman phonology. Examples from this source
> are:
>
> Social: baron, noble, dame, servant, messenger, feast, minstrel, juggler,
> largess.
>
> Literary: story, rime, lay, douzepers.
>
> Church: The largest number of words were borrowed for use in religious
> services since the French-speaking Normans took control of the church in
> England.
>
> 2. 1250-1400. The heaviest borrowing from French occurred in this period
> because after about 1250 there were more French speakers who began speaking
> English--remember the loss of Normandy in 1204. The words borrowed during this
> phase are found in many areas.
>
> Government and Administrative: govern, government, administer, crown, state,
> empire, royal, majesty, treaty, statute, parliament, tax, rebel, traitor,
> treason, exile, chancellor, treasurer, major, noble, peer, prince, princess,
> duke, squire, page (but not king, queen, lord, lady, earl), peasant, slave,
> servant, vassal.
>
> Ecclesiastical: religion, theology, sermon, confession, clergy, clergy,
> cardinal, friar, crucifix, miter, censer lectern, abbey, convent, creator,
> savior, virgin, faith, heresy, schism, solemn, divine, devout, preach, pray,
> adore, confess.
>
> Law: justice, equity, plaintiff, judge, advacate, attorney, petition, inquest,
> felon, evidence, sue, accuse arrest, blame, libel, slander, felony, adultery,
> property, estate, heir, executor.
>
> Military--Army and Navy: (Much of the fighting during this time was done in
> France. Many now-obsolete words for pieces of armor, etc., were borrowed at
> this time.) army, navy, peace, enemy, arms, battle, spy, combat, siege,
> defence, ambush, soldier, guard, mail, buckler, banner, lance, besiege,
> defend, array.
>
> Clothing: habit, gown, robe, garment, attire, cape, coat, collar, petticoat,
> train, lace, embroidery, pleat, buckle, button, tassel, plume, satin, taffeta,
> fur, sable, blue, brown, vermilion, russet, tawny, jewel, ornament, broach,
> ivory, turquoise, topaz, garnet, ruby, pearl, diamond.
>
> Food: feast, repast, collation, mess, appetite, tart, sole, perch, sturgeon,
> sardine, venison, beef, veal, mutton, port, bacon, toast, cream, sugar, salad,
> raisin, jelly, spice, clove, thyme.
>
> Social: curtain, couch, lamp, wardrobe, screen, closet, leisure, dance, carol,
> lute, melody.
>
> Hunting: rein, curry, trot, stable, harness, mastiff, spaniel, stallion,
> pheasant, quail, heron, joust, tournament, pavilion.
>
> Art, Learning, Medicine: painting, sculpture, music, beauty, color, image,
> cathedral, palace, mansion, chamber, ceiling, porch, column, poet, prose,
> romance, paper, pen, volume, chapter, study, logic, geometry, grammar, noun,
> gender, physician, malady, pain, gout, plague, pulse, remedy, poison.
>
> Common words and expressions include nouns--age, air, city, cheer, honor, joy;
> adjectives--chaste, courageous, coy, cruel, poor, nice, pure; verbs--advance,
> advise, carry, cry, desire; phrases--draw near, make believe, hand to hand, by
> heart, without fail (These are loan-translations).
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/03 6:30:53 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< Which seems to suggest poultry was specifically chicken. So what did the
Normans call goose and duck meats? And if they didn't have a different name,
why not? And if they did, why did we lose them? >>
Because goose and duck meat is gross?
Maybe because the cooks didn't care if the eaters knew what kind of bird it
was they were eating. In England they used to eat swans and peacocks. Maybe
any fat stupid bird was "poultry."
I've heard that American turkeys were one of the early imports from the new
world. Poor Brits came and found no gold, while Spain was filling up ships
with it. So the English were bringing back logs (for masts for ships so they
could build boats to kick the butt of the Spanish Armada) and turkeys and
tobacco.
Sandra
<< Which seems to suggest poultry was specifically chicken. So what did the
Normans call goose and duck meats? And if they didn't have a different name,
why not? And if they did, why did we lose them? >>
Because goose and duck meat is gross?
Maybe because the cooks didn't care if the eaters knew what kind of bird it
was they were eating. In England they used to eat swans and peacocks. Maybe
any fat stupid bird was "poultry."
I've heard that American turkeys were one of the early imports from the new
world. Poor Brits came and found no gold, while Spain was filling up ships
with it. So the English were bringing back logs (for masts for ships so they
could build boats to kick the butt of the Spanish Armada) and turkeys and
tobacco.
Sandra