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In a message dated 1/26/03 1:33:47 PM, fetteroll@... writes:

<< > Sorry, I disagree, there always comes a time, when a young child will
> try out his/or her boundries. >>

That's what traditional wisdom says, and so they never test it, because
they're afraid.

School and traditional parenting are "truths" without test groups.

In unschooling, we have a test group of people who are willing to see what
happens without the traditional "rules".

Here's what seems to be happening with my family and several others I know
personally:

If you don't limit food, they eat good food voluntarily. And they don't eat
too much of it, the way kids deprived of food will gorge. There's no reason
to gorge if they can have more when they get hungry.

If you don't limit TV, they treat it just like the other resources in the
house. They use it if they want to, and they don't when they'd rather do
something else.

If you let them do what they want to do from the time they're little, like if
they want to go to the other end of the park you say "okay, let's go" instead
of "no, you stay here because I want to just sit," then they trust you, and
they are not frustrated and waiting for their moment to get away from you.

-=-> Sorry, I disagree, there always comes a time, when a young child will
> try out his/or her boundries.-=-

This "always" seems to be based on experience with children who were put
where they didn't want to be and made to do what they didn't understand or
agree to or want.

Any sane human would test those boundaries, and the sanest and smartest would
break them entirely.

I have a teenaged boy without a curfew. It's been two years since he came
home every single night. He comes home most nights. Even many nights when
he's said "I might stay at Will's" and I've already said "okay," he often
comes home to sleep in his own bed.

His home isn't a place he's just waiting to escape from. It's a place he
LIKES to be. He likes it because he's not made to be here against his will,
on my schedule.

He's had a job for over two years. Has he "tested the boundaries" at work?
Not that I know of. He's been sick once. He's been late twice, once was my
fault. Late by minutes.

He's never so much as taken a soda to pay for it later. He is scrupulously
honest and trusted there.

WHY?

Because people have been scrupulously honest with him and let him be trusted
and trusting.

We're talking about an entirely different model of living with children. I
don't command them, yet they display all the traits "commanding" parents
would like to see. Except one. Obedience. They don't respond mindlessly
and immediately to commands. If I need something done, I explain what and
why, and if it makes sense they do it.

I'm careful to make sense.

Why would someone who's not willing to be careful to make sense want other
humans obeying them without thinking?

That's not healthy.

Oh yes, so they don't get hit by a car.

None of my kids have been hit by cars.

My mom had a third baby, when I was 19 and gone.

He was hit by a car and had a broken thigh. he was in a bowlegged cast from
the chest down for most of the time he was six years old. She spanked him
LOTS, from the time he was a crib baby. She certainly yelled at him a lot
and told him what to do. But when he got hit by a car, she was in the bar
drinking, and he was in the alley outside the bar, trying to cross to go to
his bicycle.

Being close enough to a child that you can hold his hand, or be the tall
person the driver sees is infinitely better than training him to obey your
commands.

Sandra

marji

At 15:50 1/26/03 -0500, Sandra wrote:
>I have a teenaged boy without a curfew. It's been two years since he came
>home every single night. He comes home most nights. Even many nights when
>he's said "I might stay at Will's" and I've already said "okay," he often
>comes home to sleep in his own bed.
>
>His home isn't a place he's just waiting to escape from. It's a place he
>LIKES to be. He likes it because he's not made to be here against his will,
>on my schedule.

I'm enjoying the fruits of this even now with my 8-year-old. He spent the
night at his new friends' house last night, an exciting place with all this
stuff that they have that he doesn't have. Yet, when invited to stay a
second night, he wanted to come home. The reason why is that he likes
being home. He loves visiting friends, and he loves being home. And he
knows himself enough to be where he wants to be. He knows that when an
invitation comes up for him, he's not going to get interference from his
folks. I'm glad for him.

Marji

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