Another one bites the dust...
Stephanie Elms
Sigh. A really good AP friend and hsing buddy of mine has decided that unschooling
is too relaxed for her 5 yo and has seen decided to start The Well Trained Mind
curriculum. I am so bummed..she actually had read Holt before I did and it seemed
like we were going along the same path...not exactly sure what happened.
She has gone from very relaxed, letting her kids stay up late to now waking them
at 8 am to get ready to "do school". She feels that she and her dd do better with
structure. It started with her doing 100 EZ lessons...she told me how great it
was going...how her dd had started sounding out words and was starting to read.
I had minor pangs of guilt..wondering if I should be doing anything formal with
Jason...then I asked her a little while later how her dd was enjoying the lessons...
the response was, oh she hates them, but she is learning! Ack!
Then she was telling me this story...she had planned on playing boggle jr as part of
their lessons, but had run out of time during "school" time so they played it later
during the day. Her dh was asking her dd what she had done during "school". When
her dd did not mention Boggle, my friend pointed it out and was so happy when her
dd looked at her and said, "that was school?". My friend was so excited that her dd
had learned something without even realizing that it was school...I don't think that
she even realized that what her dd was really learning was that learning was only
supposed to happen during "school time".
I love my friend to death and am so bummed...we seemed to be on the same wavelength
on so many things (we have known each other since the kids were 1). I haven't said
much yet...she knows the arguments for unschooling. It is her choice I realize.
But it was fun to have someone who "got" where I was coming from. Ah well...
Stephanie E.
is too relaxed for her 5 yo and has seen decided to start The Well Trained Mind
curriculum. I am so bummed..she actually had read Holt before I did and it seemed
like we were going along the same path...not exactly sure what happened.
She has gone from very relaxed, letting her kids stay up late to now waking them
at 8 am to get ready to "do school". She feels that she and her dd do better with
structure. It started with her doing 100 EZ lessons...she told me how great it
was going...how her dd had started sounding out words and was starting to read.
I had minor pangs of guilt..wondering if I should be doing anything formal with
Jason...then I asked her a little while later how her dd was enjoying the lessons...
the response was, oh she hates them, but she is learning! Ack!
Then she was telling me this story...she had planned on playing boggle jr as part of
their lessons, but had run out of time during "school" time so they played it later
during the day. Her dh was asking her dd what she had done during "school". When
her dd did not mention Boggle, my friend pointed it out and was so happy when her
dd looked at her and said, "that was school?". My friend was so excited that her dd
had learned something without even realizing that it was school...I don't think that
she even realized that what her dd was really learning was that learning was only
supposed to happen during "school time".
I love my friend to death and am so bummed...we seemed to be on the same wavelength
on so many things (we have known each other since the kids were 1). I haven't said
much yet...she knows the arguments for unschooling. It is her choice I realize.
But it was fun to have someone who "got" where I was coming from. Ah well...
Stephanie E.
Shyrley
Stephanie Elms wrote:
up in their anxiety that 'little Jimmy' isn't reading at 5 like Mrs Next Door's child and they start worrying about Harvard when the kids is 6.
IT's so sad but I've found that saying anything loses me friends or they avoid me anyway cos they feel guilty. It's also sad for your child losing a freind too. My son really likes a boy in this area.
They were sort of unschooling (except for maths!) but now she's gone and and bought curriculum. Son can't figure out why he can't see this lad any more. It's not cos she's avoiding me (yet) but her
child is so busy doiing school that he hasn't got time to play. He's not allow to sleep-over cos the next day is a 'school' day.
There are days when I feel very lonely and I know my kids do too cos no-one has time to play, to hang out, cos they are all doing 'school-at-home'. Then I feel guilty that I made them move from back
home where everyone we knew was a relaxed unschooler to here where so many poeple are terrified that their child will 'fall behind'.
One woman I knew was giving her daughter hell cos the child couldn't read at 6. When I pointed out that as the average age of reading is about 7, at least 50% of kids wont read until after they are 7 (I
noticed people don't understand averages at all) she snarled that her daughter wasn't going to be one of those 'failures'.
I feel like I am from Mars sometimes :-(
Shyrley
> Sigh. A really good AP friend and hsing buddy of mine has decided that unschoolingIt's tough to keep your mouth shut isn't it.
> is too relaxed for her 5 yo and has seen decided to start The Well Trained Mind
> curriculum. I am so bummed..she actually had read Holt before I did and it seemed
> like we were going along the same path...not exactly sure what happened.
>gag me!
>
> She has gone from very relaxed, letting her kids stay up late to now waking them
> at 8 am to get ready to "do school". She feels that she and her dd do better with
> structure. It started with her doing 100 EZ lessons...she told me how great it
> was going...how her dd had started sounding out words and was starting to read.
> I had minor pangs of guilt..wondering if I should be doing anything formal with
> Jason...then I asked her a little while later how her dd was enjoying the lessons...
> the response was, oh she hates them, but she is learning! Ack!
>I've seen this happen so many times and watched the kids go from happy and relaxed to stressed poeple who come to loathe learning. Quite often the parenst can't see this happening as they are so caught
> I love my friend to death and am so bummed...we seemed to be on the same wavelength
> on so many things (we have known each other since the kids were 1). I haven't said
> much yet...she knows the arguments for unschooling. It is her choice I realize.
> But it was fun to have someone who "got" where I was coming from. Ah well...
>
> Stephanie E.
>
up in their anxiety that 'little Jimmy' isn't reading at 5 like Mrs Next Door's child and they start worrying about Harvard when the kids is 6.
IT's so sad but I've found that saying anything loses me friends or they avoid me anyway cos they feel guilty. It's also sad for your child losing a freind too. My son really likes a boy in this area.
They were sort of unschooling (except for maths!) but now she's gone and and bought curriculum. Son can't figure out why he can't see this lad any more. It's not cos she's avoiding me (yet) but her
child is so busy doiing school that he hasn't got time to play. He's not allow to sleep-over cos the next day is a 'school' day.
There are days when I feel very lonely and I know my kids do too cos no-one has time to play, to hang out, cos they are all doing 'school-at-home'. Then I feel guilty that I made them move from back
home where everyone we knew was a relaxed unschooler to here where so many poeple are terrified that their child will 'fall behind'.
One woman I knew was giving her daughter hell cos the child couldn't read at 6. When I pointed out that as the average age of reading is about 7, at least 50% of kids wont read until after they are 7 (I
noticed people don't understand averages at all) she snarled that her daughter wasn't going to be one of those 'failures'.
I feel like I am from Mars sometimes :-(
Shyrley
Betsy
**I haven't said
much yet...she knows the arguments for unschooling. It is her choice I realize.**
I agree that it is her choice, but I wonder if she really grasps all of
the arguments for unschooling. Does she really understand in her gut
that if you force children to do things they learn to loathe them and
may loathe an entire broad category of knowledge just because of a few
worksheets or one tiresome textbook?
Betsy
much yet...she knows the arguments for unschooling. It is her choice I realize.**
I agree that it is her choice, but I wonder if she really grasps all of
the arguments for unschooling. Does she really understand in her gut
that if you force children to do things they learn to loathe them and
may loathe an entire broad category of knowledge just because of a few
worksheets or one tiresome textbook?
Betsy
Julie Bogart <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], "Stephanie
Elms" <stephanie.elms@d...> wrote:
Stephanie, be patient. She'll be back. (Well, my
"gaze-into-my-crystal-ball prediction record
isn't flawless, but...) I also was seduced by TWTM. I liked the
natural approach to history and learning that dovetails well with
Charlotte Mason. Also it makes the parent feel so "noble" for
structuring a classical education. And many kids who follow that
plan do seem to be ahead of their peers in terms of content
exposure and mastery.
What happened to me was that I encountered a philosophical
crisis when I realized how much I had taken back control of our
lives because of following these systems. As I've shared before,
who I am is much more trusting and relaxed. But these books
are so tempting and the authors always make it sound easy and
doable... and natural! And TWTM actually debunks unschooling
in the first chapter as ridiculous. (Sonlight was similar in its
promise that the system was natural and easy--I know the
originators of that curricula personally and what it started out as
and what it's become are so different. It's become the noose
around a homeschooling mother's neck).
Bottom line, though, is what does the mother do when her kids
are bucking her and no longer like the system? For moms who
are naturally more inclined to trust their kids, I think they'll
gravitate back to either relaxed homeschooling or even
unschooling. We have been on that gradual return for years and
finally are there.
I hate it when friends part philosophical company. I'm
experiencing this theologically with all of my longterm friends
and it's the hardest thing I've ever gone through with them. So I
can empathize totally with the pain.
Hope she comes around!
Julie B
Elms" <stephanie.elms@d...> wrote:
> I love my friend to death and am so bummed...we seemed tobe on the same wavelength
> on so many things (we have known each other since the kidswere 1). I haven't said
> much yet...she knows the arguments for unschooling. It is herchoice I realize.
Stephanie, be patient. She'll be back. (Well, my
"gaze-into-my-crystal-ball prediction record
isn't flawless, but...) I also was seduced by TWTM. I liked the
natural approach to history and learning that dovetails well with
Charlotte Mason. Also it makes the parent feel so "noble" for
structuring a classical education. And many kids who follow that
plan do seem to be ahead of their peers in terms of content
exposure and mastery.
What happened to me was that I encountered a philosophical
crisis when I realized how much I had taken back control of our
lives because of following these systems. As I've shared before,
who I am is much more trusting and relaxed. But these books
are so tempting and the authors always make it sound easy and
doable... and natural! And TWTM actually debunks unschooling
in the first chapter as ridiculous. (Sonlight was similar in its
promise that the system was natural and easy--I know the
originators of that curricula personally and what it started out as
and what it's become are so different. It's become the noose
around a homeschooling mother's neck).
Bottom line, though, is what does the mother do when her kids
are bucking her and no longer like the system? For moms who
are naturally more inclined to trust their kids, I think they'll
gravitate back to either relaxed homeschooling or even
unschooling. We have been on that gradual return for years and
finally are there.
I hate it when friends part philosophical company. I'm
experiencing this theologically with all of my longterm friends
and it's the hardest thing I've ever gone through with them. So I
can empathize totally with the pain.
Hope she comes around!
Julie B
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/2003 1:19:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
julie@... writes:
take Cameron out of school. I LOVED IT! It would have been right up my own
personal little alley had I had it as a child. I would have "et it up!" <G>
But it was NOT for my child. And I KNOW that is more important. It took me
about two more months to find Unschooling, and by then, he was out of school.
I'D still like to follow TWTM! Maybe I WILL! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
julie@... writes:
> I also was seduced by TWTM. I liked theBen gave me The Well-Trained Mind for Mother's Day right after we decided to
> natural approach to history and learning that dovetails well with
> Charlotte Mason. Also it makes the parent feel so "noble" for
> structuring a classical education. And many kids who follow that
> plan do seem to be ahead of their peers in terms of content
> exposure and mastery.
take Cameron out of school. I LOVED IT! It would have been right up my own
personal little alley had I had it as a child. I would have "et it up!" <G>
But it was NOT for my child. And I KNOW that is more important. It took me
about two more months to find Unschooling, and by then, he was out of school.
I'D still like to follow TWTM! Maybe I WILL! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jim Selvage
Stephanie,
I am another who went from unschooling to relaxed homeschooling to Sonlight
to TWTM (then TOG) and here I am back to where I started in the first place.
I agree that most likely the children will convince her that this type of
schooling won't work. I agree that you should be patient. Keep the
relationship open, so when she needs to talk about the fact that she cannot
get her children to complete all this school work, you will be there to tell
her it doesn't have to be done that way!
erin
I am another who went from unschooling to relaxed homeschooling to Sonlight
to TWTM (then TOG) and here I am back to where I started in the first place.
I agree that most likely the children will convince her that this type of
schooling won't work. I agree that you should be patient. Keep the
relationship open, so when she needs to talk about the fact that she cannot
get her children to complete all this school work, you will be there to tell
her it doesn't have to be done that way!
erin
> Stephanie, be patient. She'll be back. (Well, my
> "gaze-into-my-crystal-ball prediction record
> isn't flawless, but...) I also was seduced by TWTM. I liked the
> natural approach to history and learning that dovetails well with
> Charlotte Mason. Also it makes the parent feel so "noble" for
> structuring a classical education. And many kids who follow that
> plan do seem to be ahead of their peers in terms of content
> exposure and mastery.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 1:49:54 PM, jselvage@... writes:
<< TWTM (then TOG) >>
Erin, or anybody, could you point me to the real names of these with names of
authors or purveyors and maybe websites? I'm speaking at a mostly-Christian
conference soon and I guess I should review what their arguments against
unschooling are so I'll be able to answer them, if it comes up.
Thanks.
Sandra
<< TWTM (then TOG) >>
Erin, or anybody, could you point me to the real names of these with names of
authors or purveyors and maybe websites? I'm speaking at a mostly-Christian
conference soon and I guess I should review what their arguments against
unschooling are so I'll be able to answer them, if it comes up.
Thanks.
Sandra
Julie Bogart <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected],
SandraDodd@a... wrote:
The Well Trained Mind
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/
TOG
Tapestry of Grace
http://www.tapestryofgrace.com/
I don't know if TOG has specifically said anything about
unschooling, but I know TWTM has. I will try to look it up later and
type it in.
Julie B
SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>with names of
> In a message dated 1/26/03 1:49:54 PM, jselvage@u... writes:
>
> << TWTM (then TOG) >>
>
> Erin, or anybody, could you point me to the real names of these
> authors or purveyors and maybe websites? I'm speaking at amostly-Christian
> conference soon and I guess I should review what theirarguments against
> unschooling are so I'll be able to answer them, if it comes up.TWTM:
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sandra
The Well Trained Mind
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/
TOG
Tapestry of Grace
http://www.tapestryofgrace.com/
I don't know if TOG has specifically said anything about
unschooling, but I know TWTM has. I will try to look it up later and
type it in.
Julie B
Jim Selvage
Sanda,
All of these are Christian curriculums, basically with a classical education
bent. All have websites.
TWTM - The Well Trained Mind by Susan Bauer and Jess Wise Bauer (This is a
book that lays out a method for a classical education and gives ideas and
resources)
TOG - Tapestry of Grace by Marcia Sommerville (This is a relatively new
classical curriculum. Her Year 2 - which covers the Fall of Rome to the
Writing of the Constitution is published, Year 3 is coming out in units now
and Year 1 is on hold, had to be re-written because of copyright problems).
Sonlight Curriculum - www.sonlight.com - has curriculum for K-12 centered
around reading historical fiction/non-fiction (real books). Also recommends
various math, science, writing programs to be used alongside their stuff.
Kind of a unit study approach, more reading than hands-on.
I would be glad to answer any questions you might have it I can.
erin
All of these are Christian curriculums, basically with a classical education
bent. All have websites.
TWTM - The Well Trained Mind by Susan Bauer and Jess Wise Bauer (This is a
book that lays out a method for a classical education and gives ideas and
resources)
TOG - Tapestry of Grace by Marcia Sommerville (This is a relatively new
classical curriculum. Her Year 2 - which covers the Fall of Rome to the
Writing of the Constitution is published, Year 3 is coming out in units now
and Year 1 is on hold, had to be re-written because of copyright problems).
Sonlight Curriculum - www.sonlight.com - has curriculum for K-12 centered
around reading historical fiction/non-fiction (real books). Also recommends
various math, science, writing programs to be used alongside their stuff.
Kind of a unit study approach, more reading than hands-on.
I would be glad to answer any questions you might have it I can.
erin
> Erin, or anybody, could you point me to the real names of these with namesof
> authors or purveyors and maybe websites? I'm speaking at amostly-Christian
> conference soon and I guess I should review what their arguments against
> unschooling are so I'll be able to answer them, if it comes up.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sandra
myfunny4 <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], "Stephanie Elms"
<stephanie.elms@d...> wrote:
Hi Stephanie,
It sounds like she began having doubts, and reading TWTM gave her a
planned course to follow that guarantees a well-educated child (or so
the authors imply <g>). She might follow it for a while, but it is
intense, very-structured, and stressful for parents (not to mention
the kids); I know many "drop-outs" from TWTM. The book sits on my
bookshelf; enough said? <g>
Everyone finds their own way to homeschool; your friend might find
her way back to unschooling, or she might not...she might end up
somewhere between unschooling and TWTM. She's still your friend, and
I'm sure there are lots of things you can continue to share with
her. By continuing the friendship, you are providing her with the
opportunity to compare the rigors of TWTM with the relaxed, unique
learning that happens in unschooling.
Debbie
<stephanie.elms@d...> wrote:
> Sigh. A really good AP friend and hsing buddy of mine has decidedthat unschooling
> is too relaxed for her 5 yo and has seen decided to start The WellTrained Mind
> curriculum. I am so bummed..she actually had read Holt before I didand it seemed
> like we were going along the same path...not exactly sure whathappened.
Hi Stephanie,
It sounds like she began having doubts, and reading TWTM gave her a
planned course to follow that guarantees a well-educated child (or so
the authors imply <g>). She might follow it for a while, but it is
intense, very-structured, and stressful for parents (not to mention
the kids); I know many "drop-outs" from TWTM. The book sits on my
bookshelf; enough said? <g>
Everyone finds their own way to homeschool; your friend might find
her way back to unschooling, or she might not...she might end up
somewhere between unschooling and TWTM. She's still your friend, and
I'm sure there are lots of things you can continue to share with
her. By continuing the friendship, you are providing her with the
opportunity to compare the rigors of TWTM with the relaxed, unique
learning that happens in unschooling.
Debbie
Kelli Traaseth
Sandra, if you'd like the book, The Well Trained MInd, I have one that's collecting dust <g> seriously,
Its a nice hard covered one! I suppose I could sell it somewhere.
Kelli
"Julie Bogart <julie@...>" <julie@...> wrote:--- In [email protected],
SandraDodd@a... wrote:
The Well Trained Mind
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/
TOG
Tapestry of Grace
http://www.tapestryofgrace.com/
I don't know if TOG has specifically said anything about
unschooling, but I know TWTM has. I will try to look it up later and
type it in.
Julie B
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Its a nice hard covered one! I suppose I could sell it somewhere.
Kelli
"Julie Bogart <julie@...>" <julie@...> wrote:--- In [email protected],
SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>with names of
> In a message dated 1/26/03 1:49:54 PM, jselvage@u... writes:
>
> << TWTM (then TOG) >>
>
> Erin, or anybody, could you point me to the real names of these
> authors or purveyors and maybe websites? I'm speaking at amostly-Christian
> conference soon and I guess I should review what theirarguments against
> unschooling are so I'll be able to answer them, if it comes up.TWTM:
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sandra
The Well Trained Mind
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/
TOG
Tapestry of Grace
http://www.tapestryofgrace.com/
I don't know if TOG has specifically said anything about
unschooling, but I know TWTM has. I will try to look it up later and
type it in.
Julie B
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 4:22:28 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< Sandra, if you'd like the book, The Well Trained MInd, I have one that's
collecting dust <g> >>
Thanks, but I better just skim between now and the end of February. I would
probably become too agitated if I read the whole thing!! LOL! I'll be
apprehensive enough, I think with just the HSLDA platform-sharing.
Sandra
<< Sandra, if you'd like the book, The Well Trained MInd, I have one that's
collecting dust <g> >>
Thanks, but I better just skim between now and the end of February. I would
probably become too agitated if I read the whole thing!! LOL! I'll be
apprehensive enough, I think with just the HSLDA platform-sharing.
Sandra
Jim Selvage
Kelli,
I just sold mine on vegsource. for about $20.00. But, of course, if Sandra
wants to see it, that might be more profitable!
blessings,
erin
I just sold mine on vegsource. for about $20.00. But, of course, if Sandra
wants to see it, that might be more profitable!
blessings,
erin
>collecting dust <g> seriously,
> Sandra, if you'd like the book, The Well Trained MInd, I have one that's
> Its a nice hard covered one! I suppose I could sell it somewhere.
>
> Kelli
Heidi <[email protected]>
Oh, that poor kid...sheesh, five years of age and already hating
learning.
Our pastor's wife told me of some group, I think in Africa, where
they start "lessons" when a child has lost the first two teeth and
can reach his arm up over the top of his head, and touch the lobe of
the ear on the opposite side with his fingers. There is not a five
year old on the planet for whom that is true: first two teeth AND
touch the lobe of the ear. Her little boy, age three, couldn't even
touch the top of his opposite ear! She never started "lessons" with
any of her kids before age 7.
I figure, if we were to go with Well Trained Mind, we'd start about
NOW...at ages 10 and 8...well, maybe with the 10year old. But this
starting kids at 3 and 4 years of age...and that is what they discuss
on the forum for WTM..."what math curriculum would you recommend for
preschool?" ugh. Poor little kids.
Heidi
--- In [email protected], "Stephanie Elms"
<stephanie.elms@d...> wrote:
learning.
Our pastor's wife told me of some group, I think in Africa, where
they start "lessons" when a child has lost the first two teeth and
can reach his arm up over the top of his head, and touch the lobe of
the ear on the opposite side with his fingers. There is not a five
year old on the planet for whom that is true: first two teeth AND
touch the lobe of the ear. Her little boy, age three, couldn't even
touch the top of his opposite ear! She never started "lessons" with
any of her kids before age 7.
I figure, if we were to go with Well Trained Mind, we'd start about
NOW...at ages 10 and 8...well, maybe with the 10year old. But this
starting kids at 3 and 4 years of age...and that is what they discuss
on the forum for WTM..."what math curriculum would you recommend for
preschool?" ugh. Poor little kids.
Heidi
--- In [email protected], "Stephanie Elms"
<stephanie.elms@d...> wrote:
> Sigh. A really good AP friend and hsing buddy of mine has decidedthat unschooling
> is too relaxed for her 5 yo and has seen decided to start The WellTrained Mind
> curriculum. I am so bummed..she actually had read Holt before I didand it seemed
> like we were going along the same path...not exactly sure whathappened.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/2003 6:54:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
fascinated!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> << Sandra, if you'd like the book, The Well Trained MInd, I have one that'sActually, I think YOU would ahve enjoyed it too---as a child. I was
>
> collecting dust <g> >>
>
> Thanks, but I better just skim between now and the end of February. I
> would
> probably become too agitated if I read the whole thing!! LOL! I'll be
> apprehensive enough, I think with just the HSLDA platform-sharing.
fascinated!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
kbcdlovejo@... wrote: Actually, I think YOU would ahve enjoyed it too---as a child. I was
fascinated!
You enjoyed that book as a child? I'm impressed, now I know why you can organize an unschooling conference with one hand tied behind your back! <g>
Kelli
In a message dated 1/26/2003 6:54:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
fascinated!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fascinated!
You enjoyed that book as a child? I'm impressed, now I know why you can organize an unschooling conference with one hand tied behind your back! <g>
Kelli
In a message dated 1/26/2003 6:54:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> << Sandra, if you'd like the book, The Well Trained MInd, I have one that'sActually, I think YOU would ahve enjoyed it too---as a child. I was
>
> collecting dust <g> >>
>
> Thanks, but I better just skim between now and the end of February. I
> would
> probably become too agitated if I read the whole thing!! LOL! I'll be
> apprehensive enough, I think with just the HSLDA platform-sharing.
fascinated!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 8:30:50 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< Actually, I think YOU would ahve enjoyed it too---as a child. I was
fascinated!
You enjoyed that book as a child? I'm impressed, >>
The thinks that had I had it as a child I would have enjoyed it. TOO I
can't interpret. <g>
<< Actually, I think YOU would ahve enjoyed it too---as a child. I was
fascinated!
You enjoyed that book as a child? I'm impressed, >>
The thinks that had I had it as a child I would have enjoyed it. TOO I
can't interpret. <g>
Tia Leschke
>would
> Thanks, but I better just skim between now and the end of February. I
> probably become too agitated if I read the whole thing!! LOL! I'll beI wish I could go, as a fly on the wall. But we'll be there with you in
> apprehensive enough, I think with just the HSLDA platform-sharing.
spirit. Just think about all the people here who have "listened" to the
debates and quietly changed the way they homeschool and parent. The only
"near" unschooler I know in Sask. probably won't be going. (group
politics). There may be a few that I don't know. <G>
Tia
Stephanie Elms
> I agree that it is her choice, but I wonder if she reallyI don't know. I do know that she has read all of Holt's books etc. We met
> grasps all of
> the arguments for unschooling. Does she really understand in her gut
> that if you force children to do things they learn to loathe them and
> may loathe an entire broad category of knowledge just because of a few
> worksheets or one tiresome textbook?
on an AP message board and we have always shared a belief that kids do
things when they are ready (weaning, moving into their own beds etc).
I think that TWTM appeals to her, so she is assuming that the kids will go right
along. To her it makes sense. I do believe that she is going to take a relaxed
approach with it (not follow the schedule exactly).
We'll see how it goes I guess...
Stephanie E.
Stephanie Elms
> Everyone finds their own way to homeschool; your friend might findOh yeah. We definitely will remain friends. We also are rubber stamping
> her way back to unschooling, or she might not...she might end up
> somewhere between unschooling and TWTM. She's still your friend, and
> I'm sure there are lots of things you can continue to share with
> her. By continuing the friendship, you are providing her with the
> opportunity to compare the rigors of TWTM with the relaxed, unique
> learning that happens in unschooling.
buddies (rubber stamping is my hobby) and have other things in common.
I am hoping that she will relax a bit. Right now she is really happy
with how things are going, so we will see. I am definitely hoping that
our unschooling ways will rub off though. :o)
Stephanie E.
Stephanie Elms
> Quite often the parenst can't see this happening asWell, I don't think that this is the real motivating factor.
> they are so caught
> up in their anxiety that 'little Jimmy' isn't reading at 5
> like Mrs Next Door's child and they start worrying about
> Harvard when the kids is 6.
She really is not the kind to compare her kids with others and
she is not really hung up on future traditional success. But
she does think that her dd is very bright, so there is no reason
for her not to learn to read.
> IT's so sad but I've found that saying anything loses meI don't think that we will be losing them as friends...I actually saw
> friends or they avoid me anyway cos they feel guilty. It's
> also sad for your child losing a friend too.
the mom more then my kids saw her kids (we are both members of a local
rubber stamping club). She lives closer to you then to me actually! I
guess that we will see...I am going to call and see if we can come
over on tuesday (we are having all the tile in the main level of our
house replaced (family room, foyer, dining room, and kitchen) so needless
to say I don't want to hang out here this week!
Stephanie E.
Stephanie Elms
> Bottom line, though, is what does the mother do when her kidsYeah. She usually is pretty relaxed, which is why it surprised me when
> are bucking her and no longer like the system? For moms who
> are naturally more inclined to trust their kids, I think they'll
> gravitate back to either relaxed homeschooling or even
> unschooling. We have been on that gradual return for years and
> finally are there.
she started talking about how they were doing school and actually waking
the kids up early!
Stephanie E.
Shyrley
Stephanie Elms wrote:
We had our own personal fountain in the kitchen sink but I can't figure out how to change the faucet cos its all different from British ones. grrrrrrr
Shyrley
> > Quite often the parenst can't see this happening asWell if she's busy, I'm stuck on Tuesday waiting for a plumber so come join me.
> > they are so caught
> > up in their anxiety that 'little Jimmy' isn't reading at 5
> > like Mrs Next Door's child and they start worrying about
> > Harvard when the kids is 6.
>
> Well, I don't think that this is the real motivating factor.
> She really is not the kind to compare her kids with others and
> she is not really hung up on future traditional success. But
> she does think that her dd is very bright, so there is no reason
> for her not to learn to read.
>
> > IT's so sad but I've found that saying anything loses me
> > friends or they avoid me anyway cos they feel guilty. It's
> > also sad for your child losing a friend too.
>
> I don't think that we will be losing them as friends...I actually saw
> the mom more then my kids saw her kids (we are both members of a local
> rubber stamping club). She lives closer to you then to me actually! I
> guess that we will see...I am going to call and see if we can come
> over on tuesday (we are having all the tile in the main level of our
> house replaced (family room, foyer, dining room, and kitchen) so needless
> to say I don't want to hang out here this week!
>
> Stephanie E.
>
We had our own personal fountain in the kitchen sink but I can't figure out how to change the faucet cos its all different from British ones. grrrrrrr
Shyrley
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 10:59:41 PM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:
<< Oh yeah. We definitely will remain friends. We also are rubber stamping
buddies (rubber stamping is my hobby) and have other things in common.
I am hoping that she will relax a bit. Right now she is really happy
with how things are going, so we will see. I am definitely hoping that
our unschooling ways will rub off though. :o)
learn it because she really wanted to?
(I'm guessing and hoping the latter. <g>)
There was another mom who had a close relationship with me for a while. I
met her in another state at an SCA event (Pennsic) and she and her whole
family came to visit us in New Mexico twice, once just to stay at the house
and once for an event (Outlandish), and she was my SCA apprentice for a while.
We met because she was homeschooling in Illinois and couldn't find support,
and she knew I was in the SCA. Her three kids were about the same ages as
mine, but all girls.
They were very structured homeschoolers, and Christian.
I tried various ways to point out to her that all the SCA arts she was
learning she had learned out of pure joyous desire and excitement. Weaving,
costuming, all kinds of things. She was a stenciller and did AMAZING wall
art in many colors, making her own stencils and had made some good money
doing that. She taught other people conventions.
She just couldn't or wouldn't even try to transfer that to her own children's
learning.
When they were at my house (these are stories I've told before) her daughter
was helping me make cookies. She had a measuring cup heaped up with flour,
and was waiting pointedly for SOMETHING. I looked at her and she looked at
me. She said she needed a tableknife to level the flour with.
Oh! A TABLE knife!
I gave her one, but inside my thoughts just kinda flew to "why not the handle
of the other measuring cup? Why not just shake it over the flour canister
until it's level?"
But her mom had said there was one right way to do it.
The younger kids had gotten out the coloring book box, and Holly had a
workbook. She came to me to read the directions to her. It said something
like "in red, circle all the pictures that sound like [whatever]"--something
like that. But it specified a color. She said, "Do I have to use red?"
"No, I said, do whatever you want with it!"
After she went away, the other mom said QUITE snootily that SHE thought it
was important for kids to learn to follow directions.
Huh.
Holly HAD followed my direction to do whatever she wanted!! <bwg>
Some people don't want any help because they don't need any help, and no
matter HOW obvious it is that one set of kids is busy and happy and the other
seems bored and cynical. they're right and you're lazy.
Ah well...
Sandra
Sandra
writes:
<< Oh yeah. We definitely will remain friends. We also are rubber stamping
buddies (rubber stamping is my hobby) and have other things in common.
I am hoping that she will relax a bit. Right now she is really happy
with how things are going, so we will see. I am definitely hoping that
our unschooling ways will rub off though. :o)
>>Did she pay to take a rubber stamping class and is she certified? Or did she
learn it because she really wanted to?
(I'm guessing and hoping the latter. <g>)
There was another mom who had a close relationship with me for a while. I
met her in another state at an SCA event (Pennsic) and she and her whole
family came to visit us in New Mexico twice, once just to stay at the house
and once for an event (Outlandish), and she was my SCA apprentice for a while.
We met because she was homeschooling in Illinois and couldn't find support,
and she knew I was in the SCA. Her three kids were about the same ages as
mine, but all girls.
They were very structured homeschoolers, and Christian.
I tried various ways to point out to her that all the SCA arts she was
learning she had learned out of pure joyous desire and excitement. Weaving,
costuming, all kinds of things. She was a stenciller and did AMAZING wall
art in many colors, making her own stencils and had made some good money
doing that. She taught other people conventions.
She just couldn't or wouldn't even try to transfer that to her own children's
learning.
When they were at my house (these are stories I've told before) her daughter
was helping me make cookies. She had a measuring cup heaped up with flour,
and was waiting pointedly for SOMETHING. I looked at her and she looked at
me. She said she needed a tableknife to level the flour with.
Oh! A TABLE knife!
I gave her one, but inside my thoughts just kinda flew to "why not the handle
of the other measuring cup? Why not just shake it over the flour canister
until it's level?"
But her mom had said there was one right way to do it.
The younger kids had gotten out the coloring book box, and Holly had a
workbook. She came to me to read the directions to her. It said something
like "in red, circle all the pictures that sound like [whatever]"--something
like that. But it specified a color. She said, "Do I have to use red?"
"No, I said, do whatever you want with it!"
After she went away, the other mom said QUITE snootily that SHE thought it
was important for kids to learn to follow directions.
Huh.
Holly HAD followed my direction to do whatever she wanted!! <bwg>
Some people don't want any help because they don't need any help, and no
matter HOW obvious it is that one set of kids is busy and happy and the other
seems bored and cynical. they're right and you're lazy.
Ah well...
Sandra
Sandra
Kelli Traaseth
SandraDodd@... wrote:
**Some people don't want any help because they don't need any help, and no
matter HOW obvious it is that one set of kids is busy and happy and the other
seems bored and cynical. they're right and you're lazy.**
This kind of thing is really bugging me right now with friends, of course, all of their kids are in school. One keeps saying, "well, won't it be interesting to see how all our kids turn out!" in a condescending voice.
She is sure that her kids are going to be way ahead of my kids in something.... I don't know what, maybe therapy visits, sorry, but I really need some unschoooling friends around here!:(
I just keep trying to be positive and happy that I found this option (unschooling).
Kelli
In a message dated 1/26/03 10:59:41 PM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:
<< Oh yeah. We definitely will remain friends. We also are rubber stamping
buddies (rubber stamping is my hobby) and have other things in common.
I am hoping that she will relax a bit. Right now she is really happy
with how things are going, so we will see. I am definitely hoping that
our unschooling ways will rub off though. :o)
learn it because she really wanted to?
(I'm guessing and hoping the latter. <g>)
There was another mom who had a close relationship with me for a while. I
met her in another state at an SCA event (Pennsic) and she and her whole
family came to visit us in New Mexico twice, once just to stay at the house
and once for an event (Outlandish), and she was my SCA apprentice for a while.
We met because she was homeschooling in Illinois and couldn't find support,
and she knew I was in the SCA. Her three kids were about the same ages as
mine, but all girls.
They were very structured homeschoolers, and Christian.
I tried various ways to point out to her that all the SCA arts she was
learning she had learned out of pure joyous desire and excitement. Weaving,
costuming, all kinds of things. She was a stenciller and did AMAZING wall
art in many colors, making her own stencils and had made some good money
doing that. She taught other people conventions.
She just couldn't or wouldn't even try to transfer that to her own children's
learning.
When they were at my house (these are stories I've told before) her daughter
was helping me make cookies. She had a measuring cup heaped up with flour,
and was waiting pointedly for SOMETHING. I looked at her and she looked at
me. She said she needed a tableknife to level the flour with.
Oh! A TABLE knife!
I gave her one, but inside my thoughts just kinda flew to "why not the handle
of the other measuring cup? Why not just shake it over the flour canister
until it's level?"
But her mom had said there was one right way to do it.
The younger kids had gotten out the coloring book box, and Holly had a
workbook. She came to me to read the directions to her. It said something
like "in red, circle all the pictures that sound like [whatever]"--something
like that. But it specified a color. She said, "Do I have to use red?"
"No, I said, do whatever you want with it!"
After she went away, the other mom said QUITE snootily that SHE thought it
was important for kids to learn to follow directions.
Huh.
Holly HAD followed my direction to do whatever she wanted!! <bwg>
Some people don't want any help because they don't need any help, and no
matter HOW obvious it is that one set of kids is busy and happy and the other
seems bored and cynical. they're right and you're lazy.
Ah well...
Sandra
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
**Some people don't want any help because they don't need any help, and no
matter HOW obvious it is that one set of kids is busy and happy and the other
seems bored and cynical. they're right and you're lazy.**
This kind of thing is really bugging me right now with friends, of course, all of their kids are in school. One keeps saying, "well, won't it be interesting to see how all our kids turn out!" in a condescending voice.
She is sure that her kids are going to be way ahead of my kids in something.... I don't know what, maybe therapy visits, sorry, but I really need some unschoooling friends around here!:(
I just keep trying to be positive and happy that I found this option (unschooling).
Kelli
In a message dated 1/26/03 10:59:41 PM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:
<< Oh yeah. We definitely will remain friends. We also are rubber stamping
buddies (rubber stamping is my hobby) and have other things in common.
I am hoping that she will relax a bit. Right now she is really happy
with how things are going, so we will see. I am definitely hoping that
our unschooling ways will rub off though. :o)
>>Did she pay to take a rubber stamping class and is she certified? Or did she
learn it because she really wanted to?
(I'm guessing and hoping the latter. <g>)
There was another mom who had a close relationship with me for a while. I
met her in another state at an SCA event (Pennsic) and she and her whole
family came to visit us in New Mexico twice, once just to stay at the house
and once for an event (Outlandish), and she was my SCA apprentice for a while.
We met because she was homeschooling in Illinois and couldn't find support,
and she knew I was in the SCA. Her three kids were about the same ages as
mine, but all girls.
They were very structured homeschoolers, and Christian.
I tried various ways to point out to her that all the SCA arts she was
learning she had learned out of pure joyous desire and excitement. Weaving,
costuming, all kinds of things. She was a stenciller and did AMAZING wall
art in many colors, making her own stencils and had made some good money
doing that. She taught other people conventions.
She just couldn't or wouldn't even try to transfer that to her own children's
learning.
When they were at my house (these are stories I've told before) her daughter
was helping me make cookies. She had a measuring cup heaped up with flour,
and was waiting pointedly for SOMETHING. I looked at her and she looked at
me. She said she needed a tableknife to level the flour with.
Oh! A TABLE knife!
I gave her one, but inside my thoughts just kinda flew to "why not the handle
of the other measuring cup? Why not just shake it over the flour canister
until it's level?"
But her mom had said there was one right way to do it.
The younger kids had gotten out the coloring book box, and Holly had a
workbook. She came to me to read the directions to her. It said something
like "in red, circle all the pictures that sound like [whatever]"--something
like that. But it specified a color. She said, "Do I have to use red?"
"No, I said, do whatever you want with it!"
After she went away, the other mom said QUITE snootily that SHE thought it
was important for kids to learn to follow directions.
Huh.
Holly HAD followed my direction to do whatever she wanted!! <bwg>
Some people don't want any help because they don't need any help, and no
matter HOW obvious it is that one set of kids is busy and happy and the other
seems bored and cynical. they're right and you're lazy.
Ah well...
Sandra
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela
<http://www.naturalchild.org/home/> http://www.naturalchild.org/home/
This is a wonderful site that someone just shared with me and I thought I
would share with you all. They carry a bumper sticker that says "It's an
honor to be an unschooling family!" I just ordered one and I am very
excited about it.
Angela in Maine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is a wonderful site that someone just shared with me and I thought I
would share with you all. They carry a bumper sticker that says "It's an
honor to be an unschooling family!" I just ordered one and I am very
excited about it.
Angela in Maine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]