Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] was On a roll, the dishes, now Wanting not to ask!
Jim Selvage
Ren,
people all the time. For example, I am at my mom's house, after supper she
gets up and starts clearing the table. She does not have to ask me to help
her, I just think she would like someone to help her, so I get up and do it.
I go to put clothes in the washer, and find a wet load in there, I put them
in the dryer. If there are clothes in the dryer I take them out and fold
them No one asks me to, I just see things that need to be done, and I do it
(and I know that my mom would do the same for me).
Someone a while back was talking about being in a work
situation and not understanding why people just didn't jump in and help when
something needed to be done. She said she was always able to do this, but
sometimes saw people standing around and not jumping in.
What I am saying is that I don't want my kids to be the ones who don't know
how to jump in and help. I want them to have the ability to see what needs
to be done and do it. Granted, dishes may never come to mind. But, you
know, when we are at someone else's house, I do see them occasionally doing
things like helping to clear the table or pick up. But I know some other
kids who would ALWAYS be there and ask what they could do to help. They
would do the work willingly, and with a smile. (And they do this at home
too, I have seen them) My son even has one friend who comes over and when
he sees me working asks if there is anything he can do (this would be while
my son is playing video games, and this kid always wants to play a game, but
quits about ten minutes into it). So, what I am wanting is kids who think
about the other guy (whether it is mom or someone else) and if that other
guy is working they WANT to help. I don't want to have to ask all the time,
because when I do then the responsibility for doing things is still on my
shoulders. Which maybe it should be, I don't know.
As I am rambling on, I am realizing that part of this whole dilemna is
coming from the difficulties I have in asking my husband to help. He gets
mad when I ask, and very quickly accuses me of nagging. It is a little
better than it used to be, but I am also very conscious of what I ask him to
do. I never ask him to pick up after himself etc. because I just get yelled
at. Of course, that all goes back to his childhood with an abusive parent
who yelled all the time and ws physically abusive. He has come such a long
way from there, and I know that. But the remnants still affect our family.
So, I am looking for a way to help my children see a need and respond to it,
whether or not someone asks them to help.
What I do know about this, is that my previous method hasn't helped very
much. I often have suggested that they help someone do something when we
are with a group. My son, especially, often responds quite negatively to
this request. I have then sometimes told him that he had to, and other
times told him to forget it (but probably not with the best attitude on my
part).
Still trying to learn here, thanks!
many blessings,
erin
> << << I guess part of my problem is still that I feel like it shouldn'tjust
> always be
> me asking. I feel like they should notice too. >> >>
>
> I understand this, but it's silly. It's like saying "My husband should
> KNOW what I need"You know Ren, I really don't think this is silly. I see it happen between
people all the time. For example, I am at my mom's house, after supper she
gets up and starts clearing the table. She does not have to ask me to help
her, I just think she would like someone to help her, so I get up and do it.
I go to put clothes in the washer, and find a wet load in there, I put them
in the dryer. If there are clothes in the dryer I take them out and fold
them No one asks me to, I just see things that need to be done, and I do it
(and I know that my mom would do the same for me).
Someone a while back was talking about being in a work
situation and not understanding why people just didn't jump in and help when
something needed to be done. She said she was always able to do this, but
sometimes saw people standing around and not jumping in.
What I am saying is that I don't want my kids to be the ones who don't know
how to jump in and help. I want them to have the ability to see what needs
to be done and do it. Granted, dishes may never come to mind. But, you
know, when we are at someone else's house, I do see them occasionally doing
things like helping to clear the table or pick up. But I know some other
kids who would ALWAYS be there and ask what they could do to help. They
would do the work willingly, and with a smile. (And they do this at home
too, I have seen them) My son even has one friend who comes over and when
he sees me working asks if there is anything he can do (this would be while
my son is playing video games, and this kid always wants to play a game, but
quits about ten minutes into it). So, what I am wanting is kids who think
about the other guy (whether it is mom or someone else) and if that other
guy is working they WANT to help. I don't want to have to ask all the time,
because when I do then the responsibility for doing things is still on my
shoulders. Which maybe it should be, I don't know.
As I am rambling on, I am realizing that part of this whole dilemna is
coming from the difficulties I have in asking my husband to help. He gets
mad when I ask, and very quickly accuses me of nagging. It is a little
better than it used to be, but I am also very conscious of what I ask him to
do. I never ask him to pick up after himself etc. because I just get yelled
at. Of course, that all goes back to his childhood with an abusive parent
who yelled all the time and ws physically abusive. He has come such a long
way from there, and I know that. But the remnants still affect our family.
So, I am looking for a way to help my children see a need and respond to it,
whether or not someone asks them to help.
What I do know about this, is that my previous method hasn't helped very
much. I often have suggested that they help someone do something when we
are with a group. My son, especially, often responds quite negatively to
this request. I have then sometimes told him that he had to, and other
times told him to forget it (but probably not with the best attitude on my
part).
Still trying to learn here, thanks!
many blessings,
erin
Betsy
**What I do know about this, is that my previous method hasn't helped very
much. I often have suggested that they help someone do something when we
are with a group. My son, especially, often responds quite negatively to
this request. I have then sometimes told him that he had to, and other
times told him to forget it (but probably not with the best attitude on my
part).**
Speaking as someone who has been on the receiving end of maternal
prodding, what I visualize (which may not be what you do) feels very
much like a public reprimand. Shy children do not like to be shoved
into the spotlight and told that they should be doing more. Even un-shy
children may not be thrilled about it.
Anticipating the situation beforehand and telling your child that
cleanup is fairer if everyone helps might work better.
My two cents,
Betsy
much. I often have suggested that they help someone do something when we
are with a group. My son, especially, often responds quite negatively to
this request. I have then sometimes told him that he had to, and other
times told him to forget it (but probably not with the best attitude on my
part).**
Speaking as someone who has been on the receiving end of maternal
prodding, what I visualize (which may not be what you do) feels very
much like a public reprimand. Shy children do not like to be shoved
into the spotlight and told that they should be doing more. Even un-shy
children may not be thrilled about it.
Anticipating the situation beforehand and telling your child that
cleanup is fairer if everyone helps might work better.
My two cents,
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/24/2003 1:15:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jselvage@... writes:
SEE YOU offer to help. It really WORKS better this way, Erin, rather than
coercing them in any way to do it.
I was in a parenting class at school when Cameron was in 2nd grade. As usual,
there's a lot of preaching to the choir, 'cause the folks that voluntarily
show up to this kind of thing ARE already decent parents.
Anyway---there was a woman who bitched about her then 13-year-old would bust
a gut rather than do what the mother requested. Example: Mom would ask the
daughter to get out every morning as they backed out of the drive and pick up
the neighbor's newspaper and take it to her porch. Daughter would complain,
but grudgingly DO it 'cause Mom made her. She didn't want to, and Mom
couldn't understand WHY this was a problem. The neighbor was almost 90 years
old, and this was such a sweet gesture.
I suggested that MOM get out and sweetly put the paper on the neighbor's
porch. As she returned to the car, she should say (once) that Mrs. Smith is
so old and frail that I'm afraid she might get hurt walking down her stairs
to get the paper. If MOM would do that every day---just quietly pick up the
paper and get back in the car, HER generosity and kindness would be an
example the girls would have for a lifetime. By TELLING the older daughter to
do it, she was telling the girls that THEIR feelings weren't as important to
MOM as the little old lady's or the mom's.
She had NEVER even CONSIDERED this!
About a month or two later, she came up to me and thanked me and said that
that's what she had finally done. That the younger daughter (8?) had started
trying to BEAT her to the paper. (The neighbor had gotten a few laughs at
their expense but was delighted.) The teen had once or twice gotten out on
her OWN to help out when she was the only one capable (others sick or
whatever).
Forcing good behavior MAY result in good behavior. Modeling almost ensures
it! Withour resentment.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jselvage@... writes:
> What I do know about this, is that my previous method hasn't helped veryRather than suggest that THEY help someone when you are in a group, let them
> much. I often have suggested that they help someone do something when we
> are with a group. My son, especially, often responds quite negatively to
> this request. I have then sometimes told him that he had to, and other
> times told him to forget it (but probably not with the best attitude on my
> part).
SEE YOU offer to help. It really WORKS better this way, Erin, rather than
coercing them in any way to do it.
I was in a parenting class at school when Cameron was in 2nd grade. As usual,
there's a lot of preaching to the choir, 'cause the folks that voluntarily
show up to this kind of thing ARE already decent parents.
Anyway---there was a woman who bitched about her then 13-year-old would bust
a gut rather than do what the mother requested. Example: Mom would ask the
daughter to get out every morning as they backed out of the drive and pick up
the neighbor's newspaper and take it to her porch. Daughter would complain,
but grudgingly DO it 'cause Mom made her. She didn't want to, and Mom
couldn't understand WHY this was a problem. The neighbor was almost 90 years
old, and this was such a sweet gesture.
I suggested that MOM get out and sweetly put the paper on the neighbor's
porch. As she returned to the car, she should say (once) that Mrs. Smith is
so old and frail that I'm afraid she might get hurt walking down her stairs
to get the paper. If MOM would do that every day---just quietly pick up the
paper and get back in the car, HER generosity and kindness would be an
example the girls would have for a lifetime. By TELLING the older daughter to
do it, she was telling the girls that THEIR feelings weren't as important to
MOM as the little old lady's or the mom's.
She had NEVER even CONSIDERED this!
About a month or two later, she came up to me and thanked me and said that
that's what she had finally done. That the younger daughter (8?) had started
trying to BEAT her to the paper. (The neighbor had gotten a few laughs at
their expense but was delighted.) The teen had once or twice gotten out on
her OWN to help out when she was the only one capable (others sick or
whatever).
Forcing good behavior MAY result in good behavior. Modeling almost ensures
it! Withour resentment.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jim Selvage
Kelly,
But, this was my original point. I do believe I am modeling it. I am the
Sunday School teacher, 4H leader, AWANA leader, VBS leader, one who goes and
helps do dishes when it isn't my turn (they have specific groups who are
suppose to do it, but I don't pay attention and just do it anyway) after a
wedding, or funeral or whatever. I am the adult that when someone asks me
to do something, I almost always say yes. I am always the one helping as
long as I am physically able (I do have knee problems, and had a total knee
in July, so sometimes I am not able to pick up a table or something like
that).
When I ask my children to help, before the event, I am not asking them to
help without me, I am asking them to help with me.
I guess I will just give up on this one. Thanks to all of you for your
suggestions.
blessings,
erin
But, this was my original point. I do believe I am modeling it. I am the
Sunday School teacher, 4H leader, AWANA leader, VBS leader, one who goes and
helps do dishes when it isn't my turn (they have specific groups who are
suppose to do it, but I don't pay attention and just do it anyway) after a
wedding, or funeral or whatever. I am the adult that when someone asks me
to do something, I almost always say yes. I am always the one helping as
long as I am physically able (I do have knee problems, and had a total knee
in July, so sometimes I am not able to pick up a table or something like
that).
When I ask my children to help, before the event, I am not asking them to
help without me, I am asking them to help with me.
I guess I will just give up on this one. Thanks to all of you for your
suggestions.
blessings,
erin
> jselvage@... writes:them
>
> Rather than suggest that THEY help someone when you are in a group, let
> SEE YOU offer to help. It really WORKS better this way, Erin, rather than
> coercing them in any way to do it.
Mary Bianco
>From: "Jim Selvage" <jselvage@...><<As I am rambling on, I am realizing that part of this whole dilemna is
coming from the difficulties I have in asking my husband to help. He gets
mad when I ask, and very quickly accuses me of nagging. It is a little
better than it used to be, but I am also very conscious of what I ask him to
do. I never ask him to pick up after himself etc. because I just get yelled
at. Of course, that all goes back to his childhood with an abusive parent
who yelled all the time and ws physically abusive. He has come such a long
way from there, and I know that. But the remnants still affect our
family.>>
Just a thought here but if your kids see that your husband doesn't help out
and it all still gets done, why should they always volunteer, when "asking"
dad doesn't even work? I see his attitude affecting the kids and therefor
also yours.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/24/03 3:19:08 PM, jselvage@... writes:
<< But, this was my original point. I do believe I am modeling it. I am the
Sunday School teacher, 4H leader, AWANA leader, VBS leader, one who goes and
helps do dishes when it isn't my turn (they have specific groups who are
suppose to do it, but I don't pay attention and just do it anyway) after a
wedding, or funeral or whatever. I am the adult that when someone asks me
to do something, I almost always say yes. >>
Are you modelling doing things you don't want to do?
Or are you modelling doing things you DO want to do?
Sandra
<< But, this was my original point. I do believe I am modeling it. I am the
Sunday School teacher, 4H leader, AWANA leader, VBS leader, one who goes and
helps do dishes when it isn't my turn (they have specific groups who are
suppose to do it, but I don't pay attention and just do it anyway) after a
wedding, or funeral or whatever. I am the adult that when someone asks me
to do something, I almost always say yes. >>
Are you modelling doing things you don't want to do?
Or are you modelling doing things you DO want to do?
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/24/2003 5:18:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jselvage@... writes:
when you've finally given up! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jselvage@... writes:
> I guess I will just give up on this one. Thanks to all of you for yourDon't give up! Keep doing it. Be patient. It'll come. Eventually---probably
> suggestions.
>
>
when you've finally given up! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jim Selvage
Mary,
I am sure that is true. Which is why I was looking for some strategies to
get there help without requireing their help.
blessings,
erin
I am sure that is true. Which is why I was looking for some strategies to
get there help without requireing their help.
blessings,
erin
>out
> Just a thought here but if your kids see that your husband doesn't help
> and it all still gets done, why should they always volunteer, when"asking"
> dad doesn't even work? I see his attitude affecting the kids and therefor
> also yours.
>
> Mary B
Jim Selvage
Oh, definitely things I do want to do. And they know that. At least most
of the time. I do get tired like everyone else sometimes and wish I didn't
have certain obligations, and they know that too.
I was thinking about this more last night, and realizing something. Though
the kids don't want to help when we are in public, my daughter is usually
right there when I am working on any project related to these activities.
For instance, we are going to be making some clay pens for our next 4H
meeting. Meghan found the idea in a book and was making them for fun. When
I was trying to think up an idea for club, I asked if we could make those
pens. She said sure, started figuring out how much clay we would need, what
the cost would be, wrote up a list of other supplies we would need etc.
So, like someone else said, I am just going to have to give up my dream of
what I think helpful is, and take and look and be thankful for what they do
contribute. I will do the dishes and line up the shoes, etc. etc. etc., and
be more careful to notice the things they do to help on their own terms.
thanks,
erin
of the time. I do get tired like everyone else sometimes and wish I didn't
have certain obligations, and they know that too.
I was thinking about this more last night, and realizing something. Though
the kids don't want to help when we are in public, my daughter is usually
right there when I am working on any project related to these activities.
For instance, we are going to be making some clay pens for our next 4H
meeting. Meghan found the idea in a book and was making them for fun. When
I was trying to think up an idea for club, I asked if we could make those
pens. She said sure, started figuring out how much clay we would need, what
the cost would be, wrote up a list of other supplies we would need etc.
So, like someone else said, I am just going to have to give up my dream of
what I think helpful is, and take and look and be thankful for what they do
contribute. I will do the dishes and line up the shoes, etc. etc. etc., and
be more careful to notice the things they do to help on their own terms.
thanks,
erin
> << But, this was my original point. I do believe I am modeling it. I amthe
> Sunday School teacher, 4H leader, AWANA leader, VBS leader, one who goesand
> helps do dishes when it isn't my turn (they have specific groups who are
> suppose to do it, but I don't pay attention and just do it anyway) after a
> wedding, or funeral or whatever. I am the adult that when someone asks me
> to do something, I almost always say yes. >>
>
> Are you modelling doing things you don't want to do?
>
> Or are you modelling doing things you DO want to do?
>
> Sandra
Jim Selvage
Kelly,
Thanks, what I really meant was I was going to give up trying to explain it.
But then I did some more explaining this morning, so I guess I didn't give
up. I definitely won't give up trying to make it work!
blessings,
erin
Thanks, what I really meant was I was going to give up trying to explain it.
But then I did some more explaining this morning, so I guess I didn't give
up. I definitely won't give up trying to make it work!
blessings,
erin
> > I guess I will just give up on this one. Thanks to all of you for yourEventually---probably
> > suggestions.
> >
> >
>
> Don't give up! Keep doing it. Be patient. It'll come.
> when you've finally given up! <G>