[email protected]

In a message dated 1/15/03 1:46:59 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< GED's are a tool, for sure, and so are college
entrance exams, but there's no scholarships available for kids
without a history of doing very well academically. >>

I don't believe that.
I know homeschooled kids that got scholarships based more on community
service and involvement with the things they enjoyed rather than on academics.
You do have to keep logs of what they do through the years, but I do that as
a memory book anyway.

What about a community college?
It's inexpensive. And he could work part time to help pay for tuition and
books while living at home.
I see helping them with college as my duty. But that's just me. He may have
to get creative, but if he really wants it, there is a way.

Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/16/03 12:00:56 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Teeth that are straightened in childhood tend to stay aligned. >>

Not true.
I had braces for 2.5 years, my choice and my bite is off and some of my teeth
have shifted. If you wear the retainer for years and years (at least
occasionally) they should stay aligned.
But after a couple of years I broke mine and hence the shifting.
The braces actually cause the bone to be more prone to shifting and in some
people you need to keep a retainer and wear it at least once a month forever.

Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/16/03 12:00:56 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Just to throw a wrench into this whole TMJ idea, my sister has TMJ because
she HAD braces. Her dentist said the pressure on the jaw from her headgear
caused the TMJ. (I have heard that they don't use headgears now, like they
use to, but how do we know that what they are using won't cause the TMJ.) >>

Well now that is something I can believe!! That headgear was painful.
And my braces caused headaches galore. Even after I had them off for years
(as my teeth shifted due to no retainer) I would get headaches from the
experience.

And my sister, who never had braces, has a perfect bite AND naturally
straight teeth, has TMJ pretty bad.
She is going to get treatment for it that involves a piece you wear at night,
no braces.
I think braces as TMJ prevention is really daft.

Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

Heidi <[email protected]>

> And my sister, who never had braces, has a perfect bite AND
naturally
> straight teeth, has TMJ pretty bad.
> She is going to get treatment for it that involves a piece you wear
at night,
> no braces.
> I think braces as TMJ prevention is really daft.

Yeah, that's why this was (mostly) a hypothetical. I used TMJ,
because there are obvious, peer related pressures that could push a
child into wanting braces, like badly aligned teeth that bring
teasing or something. The hypothetical "Future TMJ if these perfectly
straight teeth are not put in braces" was to present a scenario where
no other pressure was on the child, but the ortho and the parents
saying "It's for your best interests" .

I wonder about something like that ugly brace that kids with
curvature of the spine used to wear. Without it, it's a less healthy
future. With it, it's a temporary, emotionally (physically?) painful
experience. But the technology for scoliosis is so much better now,
with an invisible brace, the negative input from other kids is no
longer an issue for that treatment.

Back to teeth...cavities. In an upbringing where the child gets to
choose, do they choose whether they brush their teeth or not? If they
choose not to, do they then choose whether to have their cavities
filled or not? What if they choose not to have the dental treatment?
Maybe they'll decide to have it done later...when it's a matter of
yanking teeth or root canal or other expensive treatments.

I'm just trying to get a picture of how far and how deep the child's
personal choices go, when they might not truly understand the long
term consequences of choosing foolishly.

peace, Heidi

Stephanie Elms

> Back to teeth...cavities. In an upbringing where the child gets to
> choose, do they choose whether they brush their teeth or not? If they
> choose not to, do they then choose whether to have their cavities
> filled or not? What if they choose not to have the dental treatment?
> Maybe they'll decide to have it done later...when it's a matter of
> yanking teeth or root canal or other expensive treatments.

But you are making the assumption that they will choose not too. I have never
forced my kids to brush their teeth. I have used all sorts of fun things to
make it fun to do..like brushing with them or their favorite chasing Charlie
the Sugar Bug all over their mouth (he has parties with lots of friends and
everything...it is amazing how quick he is!). Sometimes my kids want to brush.
Sometimes they want to skip a day. Sometimes I don't feel like it or we are
out. So far so good.

One of the things that I have been amazed at is the more and more I let my kids
make the decisions, the more and more they surprise me. For example, we saw a
Capn Crunch box that had a Galidor card on it...instead of immediately saying
no (we have not gotten in to the sugary cereals yet), we looked closer. Saw that
there was only one card. He thought about it a bit and decided that it was not
worth it. :o)

Stephanie E.

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/16/03 6:31:17 PM !!!First Boot!!!, starsuncloud@...
writes:


> But after a couple of years I broke mine and hence the shifting.
> The braces actually cause the bone to be more prone to shifting and in some
>
> people you need to keep a retainer and wear it at least once a month
> forever.
>
>

I had braces as an adult, too. Wore them for 4 years and then had my jaw
surgically broken to correct a bite problem that braces themselves couldn't
correct. Although my teeth haven't shifted, the teeth have never settled
back into the bone so my teeth are actually loose!

Beth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/17/03 9:40:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, EBA7009@...
writes:

> in some
> >
> >people you need to keep a retainer and wear it at least once a month
> >forever.
>

When my orthodontic work was done at about age 15 my orthodontist told me I
would have to wear my retainers at night forever. I did for a while, but
quit. My teeth shifted a little but not much and have been fine ever since.
Couldn't stand the prospect of those retainers forever. LOL>
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

bluelotus

>
>
>> Back to teeth...cavities. In an upbringing where the child gets to
>> choose, do they choose whether they brush their teeth or not? If they
>> choose not to, do they then choose whether to have their cavities
>> filled or not? What if they choose not to have the dental treatment?
>> Maybe they'll decide to have it done later...when it's a matter of
>> yanking teeth or root canal or other expensive treatments.
>
>

<< But you are making the assumption that they will choose not too. I have never
forced my kids to brush their teeth. I have used all sorts of fun things to
make it fun to do..like brushing with them or their favorite chasing Charlie
the Sugar Bug all over their mouth (he has parties with lots of friends and
everything...it is amazing how quick he is!). Sometimes my kids want to brush.
Sometimes they want to skip a day. Sometimes I don't feel like it or we are
out. So far so good. >>

I think this is a very good point. It seems that unschooling can be easily misundestood as *un-parenting* or something like that. You are still the parent (kids need parents), but your approach to parenting is non coercive, non controlling. Kids can most certainly know the difference between *care* and *control*. It is your approach that makes it clear to them whether you're trying to control or that you care for them (health, safety, hygiene, etc.). They love to b loved, but tey will resist control at all cost, and I think that is a natural and healthy response.

You need to talk to them, explain whys and hows, and keep the communication lines open at all times, as opposed to forcing them into what you think *should* be done. And accept that sometimes getting *no* from them is also ok. Negotiation and compromise are good skills for everyone involved... ;-)


Yol


--

Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com

Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
http://www.dyc-nc.org

**********************************
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
-- Tao Te Ching
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