unschooling math
Carol D. Wickwire
Hi all...
My sister and I got into a discussion about teaching math today. She is
planning on hsing her two this upcoming year, and we were tossing ideas
about. How do you all feel about unschooling math? On the one hand I feel
that if children are strongly math oriented, they will naturally incline
towards math related activities, and eventually, careers. The problem is,
neither of our middle girls are math oriented, and, as much as I would
love to let them follow a complete lifestyle of learning, I just can't
let go of that math. I feel that they should have enough of the basics to
jump through the hoops at the college level, what with SAT tests, and
college placement exams. I'm brave enough to unschool just about anything
but math! Help!
Carol Wickwire <*)))><
Angeli 17, Amber 16, Amanda 14 and Adam 11
Homeschooling For the Glory of God at Oceanside Academy
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Florida-homeschool
"Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life; and I
will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever." Psalm 23:6
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My sister and I got into a discussion about teaching math today. She is
planning on hsing her two this upcoming year, and we were tossing ideas
about. How do you all feel about unschooling math? On the one hand I feel
that if children are strongly math oriented, they will naturally incline
towards math related activities, and eventually, careers. The problem is,
neither of our middle girls are math oriented, and, as much as I would
love to let them follow a complete lifestyle of learning, I just can't
let go of that math. I feel that they should have enough of the basics to
jump through the hoops at the college level, what with SAT tests, and
college placement exams. I'm brave enough to unschool just about anything
but math! Help!
Carol Wickwire <*)))><
Angeli 17, Amber 16, Amanda 14 and Adam 11
Homeschooling For the Glory of God at Oceanside Academy
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Florida-homeschool
"Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life; and I
will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever." Psalm 23:6
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Alan & Brenda Leonard
1/12/03 22:48:
level. He's not convinced about the way my son is learning math, but he was
constantly frustrated that the college students he saw only knew formulas
and didn't understand the principles behind them, so they couldn't apply
them to a "real" problem.
Higher-level mathmatics (like group theory, his area) has NOTHING to do the
with garbage they teach in schools. It has everything to do with the
principles behind all those calculations, and how they work and can be
manipulated.
Both my husband and I understand what he does. Neither of us managed to
pass calculus. That's revealing to me. Henry (FIL) will come around yet, I
believe.
brenda
> I agree. Most people don't need math the way it's taught in schools. IMy father in law is a mathematician who taught for years at the university
> suppose you need that only if you want to become a mathematician or a
> physicist and want to communicate your ideas with your colleagues. Then
> you need a common language.
level. He's not convinced about the way my son is learning math, but he was
constantly frustrated that the college students he saw only knew formulas
and didn't understand the principles behind them, so they couldn't apply
them to a "real" problem.
Higher-level mathmatics (like group theory, his area) has NOTHING to do the
with garbage they teach in schools. It has everything to do with the
principles behind all those calculations, and how they work and can be
manipulated.
Both my husband and I understand what he does. Neither of us managed to
pass calculus. That's revealing to me. Henry (FIL) will come around yet, I
believe.
brenda
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/03 8:24:22 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< She said 12" deep, so each bag would cover three square feet of play area.
Right? >>
Wrong. The bags were cubic yards, not feet.
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected] writes:
<< She said 12" deep, so each bag would cover three square feet of play area.
Right? >>
Wrong. The bags were cubic yards, not feet.
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/03 8:24:22 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< She said 12" deep, so each bag would cover three square feet of play area.
Right? >>
Also, a cubic yard has 27 cubic feet though, not three.
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected] writes:
<< She said 12" deep, so each bag would cover three square feet of play area.
Right? >>
Also, a cubic yard has 27 cubic feet though, not three.
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/03 12:27:40 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Ren,
I think when you converted to inches 300 x 480 x 12, you left out the 12
times. 300 x 480 = 144,000, then that times 12 equals 1,728,000 sq. inches.
That number divided by the 46,656 equals 37.03, or slightly over 37 cubic
yards of mulch (I don't think I'd buy 38, cuz I'm cheap - the actual depth
would only be about 11.9+ inches!). >>
AHA! Thanks....didn't notice that.
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected] writes:
<< Ren,
I think when you converted to inches 300 x 480 x 12, you left out the 12
times. 300 x 480 = 144,000, then that times 12 equals 1,728,000 sq. inches.
That number divided by the 46,656 equals 37.03, or slightly over 37 cubic
yards of mulch (I don't think I'd buy 38, cuz I'm cheap - the actual depth
would only be about 11.9+ inches!). >>
AHA! Thanks....didn't notice that.
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
Alan & Brenda Leonard
1/13/03 23:03:
I've got a better idea of the easiest way. Go play in a park that's already
finished!
So THIS is why I've never wanted to buy a house, isn't it?
brenda
>> The easiest way to determine how many cubic yards you'd need (at least inYep, me too.
>> my
>> opinion) is to convert all of your area to inches. So 25x40x12 would look
>> like 300x480x12
>> And then divide that by a sqare yard converted to inches 36x36x36 ,
> Glazing. Glazing. Glazing. In a total fog.
I've got a better idea of the easiest way. Go play in a park that's already
finished!
So THIS is why I've never wanted to buy a house, isn't it?
brenda
Shyrley
Alan & Brenda Leonard wrote:
Shyrley
> 1/13/03 23:03:The Shyrley method invloves going to the store, making a wild guess and buying that many plus two. Laying the mulch. Going back to the store to either fetch more or return the excess. Easy peasy :-)
>
> >> The easiest way to determine how many cubic yards you'd need (at least in
> >> my
> >> opinion) is to convert all of your area to inches. So 25x40x12 would look
> >> like 300x480x12
> >> And then divide that by a sqare yard converted to inches 36x36x36 ,
>
> > Glazing. Glazing. Glazing. In a total fog.
>
> Yep, me too.
>
> I've got a better idea of the easiest way. Go play in a park that's already
> finished!
>
> So THIS is why I've never wanted to buy a house, isn't it?
>
> brenda
>
Shyrley
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/2003 7:20:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
shyrley.williams@... writes:
'til there's no more room! Go back for more.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shyrley.williams@... writes:
> The Shyrley method invloves going to the store, making a wild guess andAn even better method may be how many bags the minivan holds! Load 'em in
> buying that many plus two. Laying the mulch. Going back to the store to
> either fetch more or return the excess. Easy peasy :-)
>
'til there's no more room! Go back for more.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/2003 6:49:05 PM Central Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
chips. Yikes. Who knew how many chips a load would actually be? Why would
I even think to ask? I have the worst sense of volume!
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
> The Shyrley method invloves going to the store, making a wild guess andOr you could do what I did - ask your tree service to give you a load of
> > buying that many plus two. Laying the mulch. Going back to the store to
> > either fetch more or return the excess. Easy peasy :-)
> >
>
> An even better method may be how many bags the minivan holds! Load 'em in
> 'til there's no more room! Go back for more.
>
>
chips. Yikes. Who knew how many chips a load would actually be? Why would
I even think to ask? I have the worst sense of volume!
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/2003 7:33:10 PM Central Standard Time,
ejcrewe@... writes:
the long run. And my neighbors were happy to share.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ejcrewe@... writes:
> Or you could do what I did - ask your tree service to give you a load ofI forgot to mention that the load of chips was free, which made it all ok in
> chips.
the long run. And my neighbors were happy to share.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/03 4:03:50 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Ren, if THAT's the easiest way (that noise you hear is me laughing
hysterically!), why did my way work?
Joyce? >>
I missed one number!! Didn't do my own method correctly....silly me.
You might have seen the email that corrected my mistake though, I was simply
saying it was the easiest way in my own mind, not that it was literally the
easiest way!!
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected] writes:
<< Ren, if THAT's the easiest way (that noise you hear is me laughing
hysterically!), why did my way work?
Joyce? >>
I missed one number!! Didn't do my own method correctly....silly me.
You might have seen the email that corrected my mistake though, I was simply
saying it was the easiest way in my own mind, not that it was literally the
easiest way!!
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/03 10:06:42 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< The Shyrley method invloves going to the store, making a wild guess and
buying that many plus two. Laying the mulch. Going back to the store to
either fetch more or return the excess. Easy peasy :-) >>
Well, just for the record, we buy as many bags as we can fit in the trunk,
drive home, lay it down and see how much more we need!!! LOL
But if I had to order it by the truckload, it would be necessary to know how
many cubic yards I needed.
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected] writes:
<< The Shyrley method invloves going to the store, making a wild guess and
buying that many plus two. Laying the mulch. Going back to the store to
either fetch more or return the excess. Easy peasy :-) >>
Well, just for the record, we buy as many bags as we can fit in the trunk,
drive home, lay it down and see how much more we need!!! LOL
But if I had to order it by the truckload, it would be necessary to know how
many cubic yards I needed.
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/27/03 4:09:25 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
Care to elaborate Pam? What do you (the mathemetician) consider to be the
important concepts and skills? And what does a math-healthy unschooling
family do in a practical sense to support their kids understanding of the
language of numbers and patterns?
Life is good.
~Mary, who can't wait to hear Pam's "unschooling math" presentation at the
SC Conference!
I agree that if the parents have a block they should try to repair that
school damage and learn to embrace math joyfully...BUT, actually doing it is
difficult with the baggage I carry around in that area.
It's getting better. Unschooling has healed me in so many, many ways.
But I still sense a lot of blockage over math anxiety. I just ordered the "I
hate Mathematics" book to inspire me. I also got a book about turning your
brain into a calculator (full of great tips and tricks that make computation
easier) and found it very revealing!!
I think Pam needs to start Math therapy for the perpetually anxious math
phobics. :)
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<<
Care to elaborate Pam? What do you (the mathemetician) consider to be the
important concepts and skills? And what does a math-healthy unschooling
family do in a practical sense to support their kids understanding of the
language of numbers and patterns?
Life is good.
~Mary, who can't wait to hear Pam's "unschooling math" presentation at the
SC Conference!
>>YEAH!! Same here.
I agree that if the parents have a block they should try to repair that
school damage and learn to embrace math joyfully...BUT, actually doing it is
difficult with the baggage I carry around in that area.
It's getting better. Unschooling has healed me in so many, many ways.
But I still sense a lot of blockage over math anxiety. I just ordered the "I
hate Mathematics" book to inspire me. I also got a book about turning your
brain into a calculator (full of great tips and tricks that make computation
easier) and found it very revealing!!
I think Pam needs to start Math therapy for the perpetually anxious math
phobics. :)
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
sonyacurti
Hi Sandra,
My curiosity is peaked !!! I was wondering about the card games ?? I
am often wanting to play cards but I am at a loss of what new games
to play ?? We play a lot of war games right now. Which reminds me
remember those work sheets in school that they had for #'s being
less than > / < greater than. I alwyas knew the answer but I always
got confused about which sign to use. That's probably where my
dislike for math started. When you think about it WAR is like doing
those woorksheets in a fun way right ?????????????
Sonya
Attleboro,
Mass
My curiosity is peaked !!! I was wondering about the card games ?? I
am often wanting to play cards but I am at a loss of what new games
to play ?? We play a lot of war games right now. Which reminds me
remember those work sheets in school that they had for #'s being
less than > / < greater than. I alwyas knew the answer but I always
got confused about which sign to use. That's probably where my
dislike for math started. When you think about it WAR is like doing
those woorksheets in a fun way right ?????????????
Sonya
Attleboro,
Mass
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/13/03 6:34:52 AM, jcurtielectric@... writes:
<< I alwyas knew the answer but I always
got confused about which sign to use. >>
That's one of the few math signs that makes logical sense, or picture-sense.
2<3
The smaller end of the mark is by the smaller number. It's getting bigger
toward the three.
-=-I was wondering about the card games ?? I
am often wanting to play cards but I am at a loss of what new games
to play ?? -=-
Which card games? Sorry. You didn't quote the thing you were responding to.
There are regular-deck card games (war, speed, crazy 8's, rummy, poker)
and dedicated-deck games (Five Crowns)
and CCGs (Collectible Card Games) like Magic, L5R, Raw Deal (about wrestling
stars <g>), Lord of the Rings (Marty was bummed because the new cards have
photos from Return of the King and showed him some things he didn't want to know
yet). Those cost money. Oh, Pokemon and YuGiOh are in that category too.
Sandra
<< I alwyas knew the answer but I always
got confused about which sign to use. >>
That's one of the few math signs that makes logical sense, or picture-sense.
2<3
The smaller end of the mark is by the smaller number. It's getting bigger
toward the three.
-=-I was wondering about the card games ?? I
am often wanting to play cards but I am at a loss of what new games
to play ?? -=-
Which card games? Sorry. You didn't quote the thing you were responding to.
There are regular-deck card games (war, speed, crazy 8's, rummy, poker)
and dedicated-deck games (Five Crowns)
and CCGs (Collectible Card Games) like Magic, L5R, Raw Deal (about wrestling
stars <g>), Lord of the Rings (Marty was bummed because the new cards have
photos from Return of the King and showed him some things he didn't want to know
yet). Those cost money. Oh, Pokemon and YuGiOh are in that category too.
Sandra
Melanie Freisinger deGonzalez
anyone play Dutch Blitz?
melanie
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 12/13/03 6:34:52 AM, jcurtielectric@... writes:
<< I alwyas knew the answer but I always
got confused about which sign to use. >>
That's one of the few math signs that makes logical sense, or picture-sense.
2<3
The smaller end of the mark is by the smaller number. It's getting bigger
toward the three.
-=-I was wondering about the card games ?? I
am often wanting to play cards but I am at a loss of what new games
to play ?? -=-
Which card games? Sorry. You didn't quote the thing you were responding to.
There are regular-deck card games (war, speed, crazy 8's, rummy, poker)
and dedicated-deck games (Five Crowns)
and CCGs (Collectible Card Games) like Magic, L5R, Raw Deal (about wrestling
stars ), Lord of the Rings (Marty was bummed because the new cards have
photos from Return of the King and showed him some things he didn't want to know
yet). Those cost money. Oh, Pokemon and YuGiOh are in that category too.
Sandra
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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"Nature is the living, visible garment of God."
Goethe
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
melanie
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 12/13/03 6:34:52 AM, jcurtielectric@... writes:
<< I alwyas knew the answer but I always
got confused about which sign to use. >>
That's one of the few math signs that makes logical sense, or picture-sense.
2<3
The smaller end of the mark is by the smaller number. It's getting bigger
toward the three.
-=-I was wondering about the card games ?? I
am often wanting to play cards but I am at a loss of what new games
to play ?? -=-
Which card games? Sorry. You didn't quote the thing you were responding to.
There are regular-deck card games (war, speed, crazy 8's, rummy, poker)
and dedicated-deck games (Five Crowns)
and CCGs (Collectible Card Games) like Magic, L5R, Raw Deal (about wrestling
stars ), Lord of the Rings (Marty was bummed because the new cards have
photos from Return of the King and showed him some things he didn't want to know
yet). Those cost money. Oh, Pokemon and YuGiOh are in that category too.
Sandra
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
"Nature is the living, visible garment of God."
Goethe
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Dec 13, 2003, at 5:32 AM, sonyacurti wrote:
those symbols. The little end points to the little number and the big
end points to the big number. Bet your teacher just never bothered to
say that and made it all seem hard and mysterious. I HATE that!
I'll go put some card games on my math blog. If anybody has good ones,
send 'em to me.
With a 7 year old you can play Elevensies --- which is just "21" or
Blackjack only remove all the face cards and numbers over 5 from the
deck. The goal is to get to 11 but not over. Dealer gives one card,
face down, to each player including dealer. Then dealer gives one card,
face up, to each player, including dealer. Players look at their face
down card, but don't reveal it to others. First player tells dealer
"hit me" if he wants another card. Dealer gives him another card, face
up. Player says, "I'll stay," if he doesn't want another card. Then
dealer goes to next player and last to himself. Players that go over 11
lose. Whoever gets closest to 11 or exactly 11 wins that hand. We have
the winner of that hand keep all the cards (split them if there is a
tie) and change dealers for each hand. When the deck is gone, player
with the most cards wins.
Move up to 21 when the kid is comfortable adding that high. After you
play it a while, you can make the Aces count as either ones or elevens.
Then, if they are dealt two of the same number, they can turn both face
up and get two new face down cards and play two hands at once. Just
some variations based on BlackJack - make up your own, too.
Betting with pennies or toothpicks or jelly beans or M&Ms is fun to add
to this game, too. Everybody put in a penny ante (before dealing). Then
when the face down and one face up card has been dealt, everybody can
go around putting in a bet and raising and all that.
You can play this with just two people or more.
*********************
A fun variation of "War" is "Persian Pasha."
2 players
Half of the deck to each player.
Each player puts down a card, face up, simultaneously (like in War).
Keep doing that - don't worry about the numbers on the cards - same or
different doesn't matter until the two cards put down are the same
suit, THEN the higher card wins and that player takes ALL the cards
played so far.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> Which reminds meThe symbols are used BECAUSE they're clear -- that's why they chose
> remember those work sheets in school that they had for #'s being
> less than > / < greater than. I alwyas knew the answer but I always
> got confused about which sign to use. That's probably where my
> dislike for math started.
those symbols. The little end points to the little number and the big
end points to the big number. Bet your teacher just never bothered to
say that and made it all seem hard and mysterious. I HATE that!
I'll go put some card games on my math blog. If anybody has good ones,
send 'em to me.
With a 7 year old you can play Elevensies --- which is just "21" or
Blackjack only remove all the face cards and numbers over 5 from the
deck. The goal is to get to 11 but not over. Dealer gives one card,
face down, to each player including dealer. Then dealer gives one card,
face up, to each player, including dealer. Players look at their face
down card, but don't reveal it to others. First player tells dealer
"hit me" if he wants another card. Dealer gives him another card, face
up. Player says, "I'll stay," if he doesn't want another card. Then
dealer goes to next player and last to himself. Players that go over 11
lose. Whoever gets closest to 11 or exactly 11 wins that hand. We have
the winner of that hand keep all the cards (split them if there is a
tie) and change dealers for each hand. When the deck is gone, player
with the most cards wins.
Move up to 21 when the kid is comfortable adding that high. After you
play it a while, you can make the Aces count as either ones or elevens.
Then, if they are dealt two of the same number, they can turn both face
up and get two new face down cards and play two hands at once. Just
some variations based on BlackJack - make up your own, too.
Betting with pennies or toothpicks or jelly beans or M&Ms is fun to add
to this game, too. Everybody put in a penny ante (before dealing). Then
when the face down and one face up card has been dealt, everybody can
go around putting in a bet and raising and all that.
You can play this with just two people or more.
*********************
A fun variation of "War" is "Persian Pasha."
2 players
Half of the deck to each player.
Each player puts down a card, face up, simultaneously (like in War).
Keep doing that - don't worry about the numbers on the cards - same or
different doesn't matter until the two cards put down are the same
suit, THEN the higher card wins and that player takes ALL the cards
played so far.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Crystal
The symbols are used BECAUSE they're clear -- that's why they chose
those symbols. The little end points to the little number and the big
end points to the big number. Bet your teacher just never bothered to
say that and made it all seem hard and mysterious. I HATE that!
***********************
I learned that < is like an ice cream cone. More ice cream fits on
the open side so the higher number goes on the open side.
I like elevensies for the little ones. I never thought of that. My
kids like BlackJack. I have plastic disks that we use as $5 and $25
denominations for betting. We couldn't use M&M's because we'd eat
all the profit *g*. I suppose we could use nickles and quarters, but
that would mean we'd need a lot of change on hand. Real casino chips
are not that expensive, you know. You can get clay chips on ebay for
about 10 cents each. 300 clay chips cost around $30 and that's
plenty for a game of 3 or 4 people. Plastic ones are much cheaper.
Crystal
those symbols. The little end points to the little number and the big
end points to the big number. Bet your teacher just never bothered to
say that and made it all seem hard and mysterious. I HATE that!
***********************
I learned that < is like an ice cream cone. More ice cream fits on
the open side so the higher number goes on the open side.
I like elevensies for the little ones. I never thought of that. My
kids like BlackJack. I have plastic disks that we use as $5 and $25
denominations for betting. We couldn't use M&M's because we'd eat
all the profit *g*. I suppose we could use nickles and quarters, but
that would mean we'd need a lot of change on hand. Real casino chips
are not that expensive, you know. You can get clay chips on ebay for
about 10 cents each. 300 clay chips cost around $30 and that's
plenty for a game of 3 or 4 people. Plastic ones are much cheaper.
Crystal
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/13/03 11:52:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
There are regular-deck card games (war, speed, crazy 8's, rummy, poker)
they are just perfecting, strategizing, bluffing, all of those things. JP
had been making up card games. He was very inventive and creative, but.. well,
he kept forgetting all of his "rules" So, I offered to show him how to play
poker. Fortunately, the deck of cards had a card with the hands of poker and
thier precedence, so they had that for reference in making thier hands and in
figuring out who won. They played last night and a good part of today. I
think they are about ready for the chips.. lol.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
There are regular-deck card games (war, speed, crazy 8's, rummy, poker)
>>>>Ethan and JP are learning to play poker. Actually, they did learn, lol...
they are just perfecting, strategizing, bluffing, all of those things. JP
had been making up card games. He was very inventive and creative, but.. well,
he kept forgetting all of his "rules" So, I offered to show him how to play
poker. Fortunately, the deck of cards had a card with the hands of poker and
thier precedence, so they had that for reference in making thier hands and in
figuring out who won. They played last night and a good part of today. I
think they are about ready for the chips.. lol.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Dec 13, 2003, at 4:11 PM, Crystal wrote:
Get a lot of change on hand -- and only use pennies, dimes, and
dollars. Make a side rule that nobody can ever have more than 9 pennies
or 9 dimes in their possession. If anybody catches anybody else with
more than nine pennies or nine dimes, they can challenge them and steal
the "extras." <G>
This means that they have to watch it and quickly exchanges "ones"
(pennies) for "tens" (dimes) and "tens" for hundreds (dollars).
If you used unit cubes to bet with - that would be exchanging units for
rods and rods for flats.
Either way, it greatly reinforces the idea behind place value.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> We couldn't use M&M's because we'd eatAnd the problem with that is???? <G>
> all the profit *g*.
> I suppose we could use nickles and quarters, butYou are a bunch of high rollers over there <BEG>.
> that would mean we'd need a lot of change on hand.
Get a lot of change on hand -- and only use pennies, dimes, and
dollars. Make a side rule that nobody can ever have more than 9 pennies
or 9 dimes in their possession. If anybody catches anybody else with
more than nine pennies or nine dimes, they can challenge them and steal
the "extras." <G>
This means that they have to watch it and quickly exchanges "ones"
(pennies) for "tens" (dimes) and "tens" for hundreds (dollars).
If you used unit cubes to bet with - that would be exchanging units for
rods and rods for flats.
Either way, it greatly reinforces the idea behind place value.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/13/03 7:34:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
crystal.pina@... writes:
The little end points to the little number and the big
end points to the big number. Bet your teacher just never bothered to
say that and made it all seem hard and mysterious. I HATE that!
***********************
I learned that < is like an ice cream cone. More ice cream fits on
the open side so the higher number goes on the open side.
_________
Many ps teachers around here use the alligator analogy. The symbol is an
alligators mouth and it is always eating the bigger number.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crystal.pina@... writes:
The little end points to the little number and the big
end points to the big number. Bet your teacher just never bothered to
say that and made it all seem hard and mysterious. I HATE that!
***********************
I learned that < is like an ice cream cone. More ice cream fits on
the open side so the higher number goes on the open side.
_________
Many ps teachers around here use the alligator analogy. The symbol is an
alligators mouth and it is always eating the bigger number.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Dec 13, 2003, at 5:35 PM, TeresaBnNC@... wrote:
remember what the alligator eats. Why would the alligator only eat the
big numbers?
Things that don't make sense, but just have to be memorized, create
anxiety. Anxiety makes it harder to learn, harder to understand. People
start not expecting things to make any sense and they stop trying to
make sense out of things.
-pam
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
>Gonna be a whole lot of confused ps kids - who won't be able to
> Many ps teachers around here use the alligator analogy. The symbol is
> an
> alligators mouth and it is always eating the bigger number.
remember what the alligator eats. Why would the alligator only eat the
big numbers?
Things that don't make sense, but just have to be memorized, create
anxiety. Anxiety makes it harder to learn, harder to understand. People
start not expecting things to make any sense and they stop trying to
make sense out of things.
-pam
>National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
-=-I learned that < is like an ice cream cone. More ice cream fits on
the open side so the higher number goes on the open side.
_________
Many ps teachers around here use the alligator analogy. The symbol is an
alligators mouth and it is always eating the bigger number. -=-
That's a totally convoluted bunch of nonsense.
One end is smaller than the other. It has nothing to do with ice cream or
alligators.
Clear thinking needs clarity.
Simple and true explanations will help kidsunderstand.
This ice cream and alligator stuff just gives kids something else to be
confused about, and something else to feel bad about forgetting.
Sometimes a picture will help people remember, but it already IS a picture.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the open side so the higher number goes on the open side.
_________
Many ps teachers around here use the alligator analogy. The symbol is an
alligators mouth and it is always eating the bigger number. -=-
That's a totally convoluted bunch of nonsense.
One end is smaller than the other. It has nothing to do with ice cream or
alligators.
Clear thinking needs clarity.
Simple and true explanations will help kidsunderstand.
This ice cream and alligator stuff just gives kids something else to be
confused about, and something else to feel bad about forgetting.
Sometimes a picture will help people remember, but it already IS a picture.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/13/03 8:50:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
Gonna be a whole lot of confused ps kids - who won't be able to
remember what the alligator eats. Why would the alligator only eat the
big numbers?
Things that don't make sense, but just have to be memorized, create
anxiety. Anxiety makes it harder to learn, harder to understand. People
start not expecting things to make any sense and they stop trying to
make sense out of things.
eats the bigger number, well, because its bigger.. lol. You are making much
more out of it than it is. Its just a little trick to help somefolks remember
which way the "mouth" points. Not every teacher uses it, not every child will
remember it. Its not a conspiracy to confuse children. It's no more
sinister than "i before e except after c" Or "In fourteen hundred and ninety-two,
Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue. Or. ROY G BIV for the colors of the rainbow.
Or, ( my favorite) 30 days hath September, April, June and November, All the
rest have 31.. except February which has 28. No, I take that back, my
favorite is "Righty tighty lefty loosy" I use that one all the time. Do you think
there is something "wrong" with a visual picture or mnemonic device that helps
one remember something?
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
Gonna be a whole lot of confused ps kids - who won't be able to
remember what the alligator eats. Why would the alligator only eat the
big numbers?
Things that don't make sense, but just have to be memorized, create
anxiety. Anxiety makes it harder to learn, harder to understand. People
start not expecting things to make any sense and they stop trying to
make sense out of things.
>>>Huh? It's no more confusing than the ice cream "trick" The alligator
eats the bigger number, well, because its bigger.. lol. You are making much
more out of it than it is. Its just a little trick to help somefolks remember
which way the "mouth" points. Not every teacher uses it, not every child will
remember it. Its not a conspiracy to confuse children. It's no more
sinister than "i before e except after c" Or "In fourteen hundred and ninety-two,
Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue. Or. ROY G BIV for the colors of the rainbow.
Or, ( my favorite) 30 days hath September, April, June and November, All the
rest have 31.. except February which has 28. No, I take that back, my
favorite is "Righty tighty lefty loosy" I use that one all the time. Do you think
there is something "wrong" with a visual picture or mnemonic device that helps
one remember something?
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/13/2003 7:13:26 PM Mountain Standard Time,
TeresaBnNC@... writes
-=-Huh? It's no more confusing than the ice cream "trick" -=-
Yes it is. Ice cream can only go in one end. Alligators can eat small
things more easily than large ones.
But the point is that they're both TOTALLY outside the point and that they're
trying to explain what is already a totally sensible and simple line drawing
of less and more, smaller and larger.
-=-You are making much
more out of it than it is. -=-
No, Pam wasn't making too much of it.
She was defending logic and math.
-=- Its just a little trick to help somefolks remember
which way the "mouth" points. -=-
So which end would be mouth? An alligator's body is bigger than its mouth.
And the symbol can "point" either way. The bigger number goes on the bigger
end, whether it's turned to "greater than" or "less than."
-=- It's no more
sinister than "i before e except after c" -=-
There's not a line-drawing symbol to represent that.
(There are so so many exceptions it's not all that useful, but it would be
useful in spelling "their." It doesn't help with "wierd.")
-=- Or "In fourteen hundred and ninety-two,
Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue. -=-
That's a rhyme to replace just flatly memorizing a number. It's helpful.
It doesn't try to get someone to remember something entirely unrelated like a
banana or lace underwear. Ice cream and alligators have zip/nothing to do
with whether one number is larger than another.
-=- Do you think
there is something "wrong" with a visual picture or mnemonic device that
helps
one remember something?-=-
Are you really confused about whether someone has to love all such devices or
they have to reject all of them? Some are good. Those great-thans were not
good ones. So do they do any good for people here? Will they help them
unschool? Speaking to children directly in English without nonsense works really
well.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TeresaBnNC@... writes
-=-Huh? It's no more confusing than the ice cream "trick" -=-
Yes it is. Ice cream can only go in one end. Alligators can eat small
things more easily than large ones.
But the point is that they're both TOTALLY outside the point and that they're
trying to explain what is already a totally sensible and simple line drawing
of less and more, smaller and larger.
-=-You are making much
more out of it than it is. -=-
No, Pam wasn't making too much of it.
She was defending logic and math.
-=- Its just a little trick to help somefolks remember
which way the "mouth" points. -=-
So which end would be mouth? An alligator's body is bigger than its mouth.
And the symbol can "point" either way. The bigger number goes on the bigger
end, whether it's turned to "greater than" or "less than."
-=- It's no more
sinister than "i before e except after c" -=-
There's not a line-drawing symbol to represent that.
(There are so so many exceptions it's not all that useful, but it would be
useful in spelling "their." It doesn't help with "wierd.")
-=- Or "In fourteen hundred and ninety-two,
Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue. -=-
That's a rhyme to replace just flatly memorizing a number. It's helpful.
It doesn't try to get someone to remember something entirely unrelated like a
banana or lace underwear. Ice cream and alligators have zip/nothing to do
with whether one number is larger than another.
-=- Do you think
there is something "wrong" with a visual picture or mnemonic device that
helps
one remember something?-=-
Are you really confused about whether someone has to love all such devices or
they have to reject all of them? Some are good. Those great-thans were not
good ones. So do they do any good for people here? Will they help them
unschool? Speaking to children directly in English without nonsense works really
well.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/13/2003 9:03:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
This ice cream and alligator stuff just gives kids something else to be
confused about, and something else to feel bad about forgetting.
Hello all,
I just joined you this evening. I guess this is as good a place to "jump
in" as any!
*I'm* even confused already!! :o) I've taught my children that "<" means less
than because it points down the number line to the lesser numbers, and ">"
means greater than because it points up the number line to the greater numbers.
That *is* correct right??
I'll post an intro in another email. :o)
Dawn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
This ice cream and alligator stuff just gives kids something else to be
confused about, and something else to feel bad about forgetting.
Hello all,
I just joined you this evening. I guess this is as good a place to "jump
in" as any!
*I'm* even confused already!! :o) I've taught my children that "<" means less
than because it points down the number line to the lesser numbers, and ">"
means greater than because it points up the number line to the greater numbers.
That *is* correct right??
I'll post an intro in another email. :o)
Dawn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Dec 13, 2003, at 6:39 PM, Bizeemomof6@... wrote:
this way > . You can have 3 > 2 or 2 < 3
The bigger end of the symbol is on the side where the bigger number is,
no matter which way the symbol is turned. No relation to the number
line.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> *I'm* even confused already!! :o) I've taught my children that "<"No that is not correct. It doesn't matter if it is turned this way < or
> means less
> than because it points down the number line to the lesser numbers, and
> ">"
> means greater than because it points up the number line to the greater
> numbers.
> That *is* correct right??
this way > . You can have 3 > 2 or 2 < 3
The bigger end of the symbol is on the side where the bigger number is,
no matter which way the symbol is turned. No relation to the number
line.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/13/03 9:26:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Those great-thans were not
good ones. So do they do any good for people here? Will they help them
unschool? Speaking to children directly in English without nonsense works
really
well.
than greater than sign--- as an ice cream cone. I added that I had also heard
it explained as a visual of an alligator eating the bigger number. It's
just a simple "tool" for some folks. It IS good if it helps one remember, IF
they need to remember.. Heck, in the "real" world, how often does >, < come up?
I know lots of folks from little kids just learning <, >, to adults in
college who DO use the alligator visual and find it helpful.
In our family, Ethan has always needed a visual to be able to decode and
remember things. Of course, now that he is unschooled, the idea of using <, >
is a moot point, but at some point in his life, he may very well need to
recall those facts. When Ethan writes, he has rhymes or visual clues to help him
remember things, like. "B has a belly" to diferentiate between lower case b
and d. He has his own personal "clues" for punctuation that I can't recall
right now. But, they are based on how he visualized the symbols and what they
stand for.
Maybe the ice cream cone and the alligator mouth are "not good' in your
opinion. I didn't come up with them. Although, by living with a child that sees
things differently than most folks, I have come up with quite a few cues and
clues to help him remember things. Everyone is not logically and
mathematically inclined, the little > symbol that might seem perfectly logical to most
folks, may be perfectly baffling to others.
You asked if "they" ( ice cream cones and alligator mouths) helped anyone
to unschool. Would unschooling not embrace EVERY type of learning? No matter
how the child makes a connection, every path is good and worthy. The
connection could be made through a far reaching tangent, but if it makes sense to
that person, it is still learning.
I am not saying. "To understand the > and < symbols, one must visualize them
as an alligator's mouth eating the bigger number", as a "rule" or a "fact",
or even a "best way" It was just me sharing one way to learn the symbols and
remember them, IF the conventional, self explanatory, "they are logically
designed way so you should get it" approach did not work.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
Those great-thans were not
good ones. So do they do any good for people here? Will they help them
unschool? Speaking to children directly in English without nonsense works
really
well.
>>>>>Someone described a way they were "taught" or a way they remembered the less
than greater than sign--- as an ice cream cone. I added that I had also heard
it explained as a visual of an alligator eating the bigger number. It's
just a simple "tool" for some folks. It IS good if it helps one remember, IF
they need to remember.. Heck, in the "real" world, how often does >, < come up?
I know lots of folks from little kids just learning <, >, to adults in
college who DO use the alligator visual and find it helpful.
In our family, Ethan has always needed a visual to be able to decode and
remember things. Of course, now that he is unschooled, the idea of using <, >
is a moot point, but at some point in his life, he may very well need to
recall those facts. When Ethan writes, he has rhymes or visual clues to help him
remember things, like. "B has a belly" to diferentiate between lower case b
and d. He has his own personal "clues" for punctuation that I can't recall
right now. But, they are based on how he visualized the symbols and what they
stand for.
Maybe the ice cream cone and the alligator mouth are "not good' in your
opinion. I didn't come up with them. Although, by living with a child that sees
things differently than most folks, I have come up with quite a few cues and
clues to help him remember things. Everyone is not logically and
mathematically inclined, the little > symbol that might seem perfectly logical to most
folks, may be perfectly baffling to others.
You asked if "they" ( ice cream cones and alligator mouths) helped anyone
to unschool. Would unschooling not embrace EVERY type of learning? No matter
how the child makes a connection, every path is good and worthy. The
connection could be made through a far reaching tangent, but if it makes sense to
that person, it is still learning.
I am not saying. "To understand the > and < symbols, one must visualize them
as an alligator's mouth eating the bigger number", as a "rule" or a "fact",
or even a "best way" It was just me sharing one way to learn the symbols and
remember them, IF the conventional, self explanatory, "they are logically
designed way so you should get it" approach did not work.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wife2Vegman
--- TeresaBnNC@... wrote:
anything in Pam's post where she says she is against
mnemonic devices or visual helps or poems. She just
said that that particular one is confusing and might
cause more problems than it solves.
My daughter was one for putting too much thought into
standardized test questions, for example, and when the
question was "if there are 10 apples on a tree, and a
horse took 5 days to eat all the apples, how many
apples did he eat each day?" She was totally
confused. What if he ate one apple a day for 4 days
and then ate 6 the last day? What if he didn't eat
any on one day? How would she ever know?
I had to constantly tell her to quit thinking so much
and just pick the answer that fits from the choices
given. How ridiculous to tell a child to stop
thinking!
I can see where a child who watches a lot of Steve
Irwin or other animal planet shows might wonder why an
alligator wouldn't just eat both up or even just the
smaller one, since animals usually eat the sick and
weak instead of the biggest and strongest.
So why not just simply tell the child the smaller end
of the symbol points to the smaller number? Or the
larger end points to the larger number? Why not keep
it in the same terms as the actual problem, just like
your three other examples do?
Getting defensive when someone on the list suggests
there might be a better choice than the one you have
offered is not the best way to respond. Perhaps you
didn't mean to sound defensive, but it came across to
me that way.
wifetovegman
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/
> No,Gosh, that post seems a bit over the top. I don't see
> I take that back, my
> favorite is "Righty tighty lefty loosy" I use that
> one all the time. Do you think
> there is something "wrong" with a visual picture or
> mnemonic device that helps
> one remember something?
>
> Teresa
anything in Pam's post where she says she is against
mnemonic devices or visual helps or poems. She just
said that that particular one is confusing and might
cause more problems than it solves.
My daughter was one for putting too much thought into
standardized test questions, for example, and when the
question was "if there are 10 apples on a tree, and a
horse took 5 days to eat all the apples, how many
apples did he eat each day?" She was totally
confused. What if he ate one apple a day for 4 days
and then ate 6 the last day? What if he didn't eat
any on one day? How would she ever know?
I had to constantly tell her to quit thinking so much
and just pick the answer that fits from the choices
given. How ridiculous to tell a child to stop
thinking!
I can see where a child who watches a lot of Steve
Irwin or other animal planet shows might wonder why an
alligator wouldn't just eat both up or even just the
smaller one, since animals usually eat the sick and
weak instead of the biggest and strongest.
So why not just simply tell the child the smaller end
of the symbol points to the smaller number? Or the
larger end points to the larger number? Why not keep
it in the same terms as the actual problem, just like
your three other examples do?
Getting defensive when someone on the list suggests
there might be a better choice than the one you have
offered is not the best way to respond. Perhaps you
didn't mean to sound defensive, but it came across to
me that way.
wifetovegman
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/14/03 1:59:50 AM, TeresaBnNC@... writes:
<<
Someone described a way they were "taught" or a way they remembered the less
than greater than sign--- as an ice cream cone. I added that I had also
heard
it explained as a visual of an alligator eating the bigger number. >>
I know. I read it all.
<< It IS good if it helps one remember, IF
they need to remember.. Heck, in the "real" world, how often does >, < come
up? >>
If thinking of a volkswagen engine helps you remember how much yeast to put
in your rolls, great--but don't come and tell the list.
<<I know lots of folks from little kids just learning <, >, to adults in
college who DO use the alligator visual and find it helpful. >>
I don't believe you know lots of folks who use that visual. I think you're
making that up to prove a lame point.
<<Heck, in the "real" world, how often does >, < come up? >>
Without math lessons, somehow my kids all know what it means. It takes about
two seconds to show someone, when they come across it somewhere, like on the
keyboard on a computer, or in directions to games involving dice rolls.
<<When Ethan writes, he has rhymes or visual clues to help him
remember things, like. "B has a belly" to diferentiate between lower case b
and d. >>
If a child has already established that left-to-right thing, then "b" and "d"
aren't confusing anymore. If they have NOT established it, both "b" and "d"
have a belly. Why should the belly face one way and not the other?
<<Maybe the ice cream cone and the alligator mouth are "not good' in your
opinion. I didn't come up with them. >>
There are lots of things which are not useful which I didn't come up with,
but if I bring them and post them on this list, I need to be willing or able to
defend them or I'll be confusing people unnecessarily.
<< You asked if "they" ( ice cream cones and alligator mouths) helped anyone
to unschool. Would unschooling not embrace EVERY type of learning? >>
No. Just good and sensible types of learning. Not assembly line stuff
designed for multitudes, and not nonsense.
<<No matter
how the child makes a connection, every path is good and worthy.>>
Recommending convoluted connections to a child isn't a child making a
connection. It's an adult making a confusing recommendation.
Sandra
<<
Someone described a way they were "taught" or a way they remembered the less
than greater than sign--- as an ice cream cone. I added that I had also
heard
it explained as a visual of an alligator eating the bigger number. >>
I know. I read it all.
<< It IS good if it helps one remember, IF
they need to remember.. Heck, in the "real" world, how often does >, < come
up? >>
If thinking of a volkswagen engine helps you remember how much yeast to put
in your rolls, great--but don't come and tell the list.
<<I know lots of folks from little kids just learning <, >, to adults in
college who DO use the alligator visual and find it helpful. >>
I don't believe you know lots of folks who use that visual. I think you're
making that up to prove a lame point.
<<Heck, in the "real" world, how often does >, < come up? >>
Without math lessons, somehow my kids all know what it means. It takes about
two seconds to show someone, when they come across it somewhere, like on the
keyboard on a computer, or in directions to games involving dice rolls.
<<When Ethan writes, he has rhymes or visual clues to help him
remember things, like. "B has a belly" to diferentiate between lower case b
and d. >>
If a child has already established that left-to-right thing, then "b" and "d"
aren't confusing anymore. If they have NOT established it, both "b" and "d"
have a belly. Why should the belly face one way and not the other?
<<Maybe the ice cream cone and the alligator mouth are "not good' in your
opinion. I didn't come up with them. >>
There are lots of things which are not useful which I didn't come up with,
but if I bring them and post them on this list, I need to be willing or able to
defend them or I'll be confusing people unnecessarily.
<< You asked if "they" ( ice cream cones and alligator mouths) helped anyone
to unschool. Would unschooling not embrace EVERY type of learning? >>
No. Just good and sensible types of learning. Not assembly line stuff
designed for multitudes, and not nonsense.
<<No matter
how the child makes a connection, every path is good and worthy.>>
Recommending convoluted connections to a child isn't a child making a
connection. It's an adult making a confusing recommendation.
Sandra