Heidi <[email protected]>

Hi me again

I was talking to my best friend tonight about this, and we both had a
chuckle about "they will learn whatever math they need as they need
it" (sorry, that IS going to be the toughest *gasp* Don't do Math?
*gasp*)

Anyway, I told her about my teenage daughter's journey into English
History via Tolkien, and she said "because it interested her" and I
said "That's RIGHT! these unschoolers say that's what we're supposed
to do, let the kids follow what they are interested in..." and she
was getting it. And I asked her what her kids shine in, is it the
fill in the blanks, lists of spelling words, pages of math problems,
or do they shine in areas where they've achieved a passion by going
after something they love to do? (She has always relied heavily on
4-H, with a traditional curriculum for academics, and her kids are
truly WONDERS.)

She agreed there, too...where her kids have excelled the most has
been in areas where they've taken off of their own volition and gone
for it, for fun.

I think there's a lot of value in this concept.

wow

Blessings, Heidi

Fetteroll

on 1/12/03 11:17 PM, Heidi <bunsofaluminum60@...> at
bunsofaluminum60@... wrote:

Sounds like you're getting it way faster than I did :-)

> "That's RIGHT! these unschoolers say that's what we're supposed
> to do, let the kids follow what they are interested in..."

I think I would phrase it as "Unschoolers say that's what you need to do for
unschooling to work." Unless someone embraces the goals of unschooling the
"suppoed to do" part would just be going through the motions and not work
very well.

Joyce

Heidi <[email protected]>

Okay, so where can I find a concise (or, heck, wordy!) report or list
of the goals of unschooling. Laid out plain and simple, so I can get
it! LOL

Heidi
--- In [email protected], Fetteroll <fetteroll@e...>
wrote:
> on 1/12/03 11:17 PM, Heidi <bunsofaluminum60@h...> at
> bunsofaluminum60@h... wrote:
>
> Sounds like you're getting it way faster than I did :-)
>
> > "That's RIGHT! these unschoolers say that's what we're supposed
> > to do, let the kids follow what they are interested in..."
>
> I think I would phrase it as "Unschoolers say that's what you need
to do for
> unschooling to work." Unless someone embraces the goals of
unschooling the
> "suppoed to do" part would just be going through the motions and
not work
> very well.
>
> Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/12/03 9:17:58 PM, bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

<< I think there's a lot of value in this concept. >>

I used to run live unschooling chats, in a scheduled chatroom, two hours a
week, on AOL.

Sometimes we would get people who would come in figuring they could easily
just show us the total error of our ways.

A man came in once (which was rare by itself) and asked this question:

*Are you willing to risk your children's future on your "theories"?*


"Yes," I said. "Aren't you?"

Everyone does. Those whose theory is that schools are best for their kids
are taking the same kind of risk only they will blame someone else if it
doens't work out.

Sandra

Heidi <[email protected]>

> A man came in once (which was rare by itself) and asked this
question:
> *Are you willing to risk your children's future on your "theories"?*

Well, think about this. The man was probably thinking of the success
(or, I could say "success") of traditional teaching paradigms
throughout the history of Western Civilization. People who were
tightly structured, learning Latin, Greek, Calculus, Philosophy,
through tutelage AT HOME with structured, scheduled, guided learning
through their childhoods (the Founding Fathers, e.g,) grew into men
who completely changed the history of the world. The traditional
methods have been used to elevate the average literacy levels in this
country, as someone pointed out somewhere else, so that America has
had by far the highest literacy rate in the world.

To the man who said that, this paradigm looked MIGHTY successful,
don't you think? Trusting his children to such a (proven) method must
have seemed better to the guy than just letting the kids explore
without a lot of interference.

Now! can I guess the unschoolers' reply? Which I don't disagree with,
mind you. "The men who became America's Founders, were highly
educated, true, but they are only a small minority of the population.
And who is to say that the Founders weren't following their own
interests, too, and that those interests just happened to bring them
to the place they arrived at as men? Other people in the populatin at
that time were NOT movers and shakers, but people have followed their
own interests for eons, going into vocations that they were good at
because they explored everything around them..." etc. I could also
say something about how the education of the 17th century was apples
compared to the (rotten) oranges that today's Government System
offers.

how'd I do? Is that an unschoolers' reply? LOL

heidi

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/13/03 7:12:38 AM, bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

<< Okay, so where can I find a concise (or, heck, wordy!) report or list
of the goals of unschooling. Laid out plain and simple, so I can get
it! LOL >>

I don't think there is one.

"The goals" of unschooling?

Children are growing up. Mine are particularly important to me. <LOL>
They WILL grow up and they WILL learn (unless they die or have a debilitating
brain injury).

SO... I would like to provide a way for them to avoid school if they don't
want to go to school. Mine have had the option and have chosen to stay home.

My goal is to provide this option until they're past the state's compulsory
attendance age.

But that's a goal of my parenting, not the goal of unschooling.

I trust that if they have a life full of the opportunity to see, hear, taste,
smell, touch, discuss and ponder interesting things that their learning will
be constant, and their own knowledge will build and intertwine and grow
inside them where I can't see, and they will be more and more confident and
interesting as they get older.

So far so good.

If you want to read more granulated ideas, I have lots of things linked from
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
but there's not a list of "the goals."

And darn it, there's not even going to be an opportunity to take the special
unschooling SAT test to prove I know it really well!!! (If I could have
[morally and legally] made a living taking standardized tests, I'd be rich!)

Sandra

kayb85 <[email protected]>

--- In [email protected], "Heidi
<bunsofaluminum60@h...>" <bunsofaluminum60@h...> wrote:
> > A man came in once (which was rare by itself) and asked this
> question:
> > *Are you willing to risk your children's future on
your "theories"?*
>
> Well, think about this. The man was probably thinking of the
success
> (or, I could say "success") of traditional teaching paradigms
> throughout the history of Western Civilization.

I guess a lot depends on how you define success. Many highly
successful people (succesful according to mainstream Western
civilization standards) are emotionally and spiritually unhealthy.


People who were
> tightly structured, learning Latin, Greek, Calculus, Philosophy,
> through tutelage AT HOME with structured, scheduled, guided
learning
> through their childhoods (the Founding Fathers, e.g,) grew into men
> who completely changed the history of the world.


Were all of the founding fathers tightly structured at home? I don't
know the answer for sure, but I'm guessing that there might have been
some structure (mom saying "You're 12 now, time to teach you how to
read") but a lot of freedom. A lot more freedom than school-at-home
homeschoolers today give their kids.

The traditional
> methods have been used to elevate the average literacy levels in
this
> country, as someone pointed out somewhere else, so that America
has
> had by far the highest literacy rate in the world.

In one of John Taylor Gatto's books, he shows how literacy rates in
America have steadily declined since the introduction of compulsory
attendance laws in the country.

Sheila

Heidi <[email protected]>

Hi Sheila

> I guess a lot depends on how you define success. Many highly
> successful people (succesful according to mainstream Western
> civilization standards) are emotionally and spiritually unhealthy.

Which is why I addended my statement, to put success in
quotes "success".



> Were all of the founding fathers tightly structured at home? I
don't
> know the answer for sure, but I'm guessing that there might have
been
> some structure (mom saying "You're 12 now, time to teach you how to
> read") but a lot of freedom. A lot more freedom than school-at-
home
> homeschoolers today give their kids.

Actually, I think you're right about this. Reading Anne of Green
Gables series, I remember a paragraph where one of Marilla's
neighbors tells her "The child is nine now, isn't it time she went to
school?"...but I think it was about twins Marilla and Anne had
adopted. Starting their educations at age 5 was a German concept
(Kinder-garten=Child's Garden) that became popular before the Great
Depression. I have a friend who goes by the following guideline: when
a child has lost his first two front teeth, and can reach his arm
over the top of his head to touch the lobe of the opposite ear, start
teaching him. This is something I've tried to do around here, all
along: let the little kids PLAY and nothing else. Well, chores and
obedience to their parents and we have a Bible time every day.

> In one of John Taylor Gatto's books, he shows how literacy rates in
> America have steadily declined since the introduction of compulsory
> attendance laws in the country.

which is why I said America "had" (past tense) the highest literacy
rates in the world. You must admit, a 98% literacy rate, in the 50's?
or 40's? is pretty good. NOwhere near that, now.


>
> Sheila

thanks, Heidi

Fetteroll

on 1/13/03 9:11 AM, Heidi <bunsofaluminum60@...> at
bunsofaluminum60@... wrote:

> Okay, so where can I find a concise (or, heck, wordy!) report or list
> of the goals of unschooling. Laid out plain and simple, so I can get
> it! LOL

That's the cart before the horse. ;-)

What are *your* goals?

There aren't goals of unschooling. (Though I may have worded it that way.)
But there are goals that unschooling can help us achieve. Living life
joyfully. Self-discovery and self-fulfillment. Pursuing dreams. Providing an
atmosphere for natural learning. And so on.

Joyce

[email protected]

This is an interesting thread... I have always admired Abraham Lincoln, who
came from a poor backwoods family, had the benefit of very little formal
schooling in his early years, yet "schooled" himself (with little
encouragement from his father, no less!) and discovered a passion (the law)
that fired his imagination and spurred him on to his place in history.

I use this as inspiration in unschooling my own son. I constantly encourage
him to experiement with many different subjects and projects and ideas, with
the hope that he will eventually find his own "passion" that will light the
fire in his heart and soul for his own life's work.
At the moment, he has informed me that he "hates" reading, math, history and
writing. I asked him what he does like, and he replies "movies!" I really
like movies!
This weekend, we are going to explore various occupations related to the
movie industry. I suggessted to him that he could start a school publication
where he critiques the current movie offerings in our town each week. He lit
on that idea right away, and spend several hours reading other critics'
reviews, synopsises, and then writing his own take on the movies he's seen so
far.

So, without struggle, he enjoyed some reading, some writing, some history
(background on the movies subject), and math while figuring the gross profits
of the various studios, etc.

Much better than battles with worksheets and textbooks!

[Unable to display image]
Becky
"When you stop begging for approval, then you can begin to earn respect."

~~~ Glorie Steinman
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/ldycheroke57/myhomepage/profile.html">My Web Profile Page</A>

<A HREF="http://www.petitiononline.com/indian/petition.html">Please sign the Petition for Native American Holiday</A>
(you can sign electronically)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/03 6:34:34 AM, ldycheroke57@... writes:

<< At the moment, he has informed me that he "hates" reading, math, history
and
writing. I asked him what he does like, and he replies "movies!" I really
like movies!
This weekend, we are going to explore various occupations related to the
movie industry. >>

There are movies which deal in matters which would help him understand or
appreciate reading, math, history and writing. I wouldn't ever SAY so to him
<g>. But Searching for Bobby Fisher, Henry V, El Cid, Finding Forrester
without even any discussions of how they movies were made would spark his
thought nineteen ways, I'm sure.

If you have a DVD player, you probably already know that the "tradition" with
DVDs is coming to be that they have a voice-over track option where someone
who worked on the movie (sometimes many someones) will tell you all KINDS of
cool stuff about when it was being made. We've really enjoyed the extras on
DVDs. It's amazing. Like film school without having to buy any expensive
textbooks or write any papers, without having to listen to lectures or watch
any foreign movies you have no interest in whatsoever. <bwg>

Sandra

Gerard Westenberg

<<But Searching for Bobby Fisher, Henry V, El Cid, Finding Forrester
without even any discussions of how they movies were made would spark his
thought nineteen ways, I'm sure.>>.

We watched part of Searching for Bobby Fisher last weekend. Only part, cos the video from the store was of really poor quality - made viewing difficult. But my 7 yo was so inspired by what we saw - the boy in the film is, I guess, a chess prodigy. My son had the chess set out, asking anyone to play games, the chess set is still out and people are playing chess at various times...Leonie W.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]