Annette Naake

Hi Lynda,

Thanks for your post, I think we many of us were probably trained the way
you described and I for one suffered no harm from it! However, I have a 7 yr
who trained at almost 4, and a 2.5 in diapers, so it's been pretty
reassuring to me to hear the stories of other families who have gone the
same route. My question is, how would you get them to sit on the potty while
you folded towels, applied makeup, cleaned the bathroom etc.? I was looking
at an old potty training book recently and it had pages and pages of
pictures of different models of potties. I observed that many of them came
equipped with straps! Chilling...

The thing I have seen with moms who train before 2 is that they then must
spend the next year asking the children every half hour if they need to go,
and leading them to the potty about six times a day, and of course they
spend quite a lot of time in the bathroom taking pants on and off, wiping
and helping wash hands. They have to have extra underwear and pants packed
wherever they go and deal with about one accident a day for quite a while.
Granted mine didn't learn til he was 3.5, but once he did it was all his own
affair: He went when he needed to without being reminded or led, took his
pants on and off himself, and knew to wash up afterward, and had maybe half
a dozen accidents total. And then, what about when the child is visiting
someone without you, or you are out somewhere where it's not convenient to
sit on the potty so often? I think someone did observe recently that mothers
of the past stayed home with their children a lot more of the time.

My mom, who had us both out of diapers before we were 2, admitted that for
that first year, it was not the toddler but her who was trained. I guess
it's just a matter of how you want to go about it.

As I said I don't think it hurts either way, but it does seem more tedious
for all concerned if you train before they are really ready to be
independent potty-goers.

Annette






>Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:53:59 -0800
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
>Subject: Re: Unschooling potty-training and weaning
>
>Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Can someone tell me exactly
>what is wrong with early toilet training if it is done right? By right, I
>would guess the way that we did it back in the dark ages. It wasn't a big
>deal, you were in the bathroom for whatever reason and you plotted the
>kidlet on the toilet and asked if they thought they might want to [insert
>name of choice] in the big potty. You folded towels and put them away, put
>on your make-up, cleaned the sink, whatever. If they did, cheering, if
>they didn't, no big deal and a o.k., maybe next time. No trauma, no force,
>no big deal. Of course, the boys were the easiest as they liked to watch
>it splash, kind of a monkey see, monkey do thing with daddy or uncle or big
>brother. Again, no big deal. As long as you caught them before the
>terrible 2's it wasn't any big deal. They love making the toilet flush and
>watching the water swirl and gurgle, too.
>
>Sure, some folks got carried away and it became a competition but you are
>going to see that in any area of child rearing. And, all in all, it is
>healthier for the kids to be out of the diapers.
>
>Lynda
>
>----------

Brown

I have 4 boys, 3 of whom were day and night 'trained' between 2 and 2 1/2 years.
The other was day 'trained by 3 1/3, but still having 'accidents' at night at 6.
They are just built differently. However, although I never 'trained' them as
such, when I noticed that they had some control, they were offered the
potty/toilet (3 preferred the toilet straight off) consistently, and most diaper
changes they were reminded that they could use the potty/toilet if they wanted.

I agree that cloth nappies encourage them, cause they feel yucky!

BUT, I wonder: 3 of my boys learned to read between 9 and 12 years. The other
started at 3 and was more than proficient by 4 1/2. And yes, the 3 that were
early toilet trained were also the late readers. Anyone else experience that?
I've only just noticed that correlation.

Carol

[email protected]

My only reader (so far), was reading brilliantly by age 61/2, but wasn't
using the toilet 100% until after age 4. She was wet at night until just
before her 7th birthday.
Mary Ellen
Breastfeeding is Y2K Compliant

BUT, I wonder: 3 of my boys learned to read between 9 and 12 years. The
other
started at 3 and was more than proficient by 4 1/2. And yes, the 3 that
were
early toilet trained were also the late readers. Anyone else experience
that?
I've only just noticed that correlation.

Carol

Lynda

I think max it took maybe a couple of weeks. We weren't home that much
(owning your own business plus the ranch plus the horse shows doesn't make
for a real SAHM). I guess you would have to file me under casual because I
never did get too worked up over much of anything and I think since I
really couldn't have cared one way or the other and a big production wasn't
made of it, it worked. Also, diapers were a kind of game, "eeuuuu, let's
get rid of this soggy ol' thing" and other jokes like that which they
joined in with. It wasn't a matter of shaming them but a joke between mom
and kidlet. None of the kidlets ever had any problem asking the nearest
person we knew to help, "I need ups" was eldest's usual request. The potty
chair was usually used as a stepping stool to reach the faucet for hand
washing. I did need to keep an eye on the bathroom because training early
has some draw backs <g> such as toys and apples being stuff down the toilet
because they are in the room more freely than kidlets that don't "use" the
toilet yet.

Of course, I gotta tell you, boys were much easier (other than the night
time thing) than daughter was. The boys took half as much time. Of
course, after the first kidlet, the rest seem to almost "train" each other.
The older boys hauled the smaller boys along with them to use the
bathroom. I even found them flipping coins to see who got to do "splash
down" first (12, 4.5 and 10 mo.).

Lynda

----------
> From: "Annette Naake" <naake1999@...>

> Hi Lynda,
>
> Thanks for your post, I think we many of us were probably trained the way

> you described and I for one suffered no harm from it! However, I have a 7
yr
> who trained at almost 4, and a 2.5 in diapers, so it's been pretty
> reassuring to me to hear the stories of other families who have gone the
> same route. My question is, how would you get them to sit on the potty
while
> you folded towels, applied makeup, cleaned the bathroom etc.? I was
looking
> at an old potty training book recently and it had pages and pages of
> pictures of different models of potties. I observed that many of them
came
> equipped with straps! Chilling...
>
> The thing I have seen with moms who train before 2 is that they then must

> spend the next year asking the children every half hour if they need to
go,
> and leading them to the potty about six times a day, and of course they
> spend quite a lot of time in the bathroom taking pants on and off, wiping

> and helping wash hands. They have to have extra underwear and pants
packed
> wherever they go and deal with about one accident a day for quite a
while.
> Granted mine didn't learn til he was 3.5, but once he did it was all his
own
> affair: He went when he needed to without being reminded or led, took his

> pants on and off himself, and knew to wash up afterward, and had maybe
half
> a dozen accidents total. And then, what about when the child is visiting
> someone without you, or you are out somewhere where it's not convenient
to
> sit on the potty so often? I think someone did observe recently that
mothers
> of the past stayed home with their children a lot more of the time.
>
> My mom, who had us both out of diapers before we were 2, admitted that
for
> that first year, it was not the toddler but her who was trained. I guess
> it's just a matter of how you want to go about it.
>
> As I said I don't think it hurts either way, but it does seem more
tedious
> for all concerned if you train before they are really ready to be
> independent potty-goers.
>
> Annette
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Message: 6
> > Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:53:59 -0800
> > From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> >Subject: Re: Unschooling potty-training and weaning
> >
> >Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Can someone tell me
exactly
> >what is wrong with early toilet training if it is done right? By right,
I
> >would guess the way that we did it back in the dark ages. It wasn't a
big
> >deal, you were in the bathroom for whatever reason and you plotted the
> >kidlet on the toilet and asked if they thought they might want to
[insert
> >name of choice] in the big potty. You folded towels and put them away,
put
> >on your make-up, cleaned the sink, whatever. If they did, cheering, if
> >they didn't, no big deal and a o.k., maybe next time. No trauma, no
force,
> >no big deal. Of course, the boys were the easiest as they liked to
watch
> >it splash, kind of a monkey see, monkey do thing with daddy or uncle or
big
> >brother. Again, no big deal. As long as you caught them before the
> >terrible 2's it wasn't any big deal. They love making the toilet flush
and
> >watching the water swirl and gurgle, too.
> >
> >Sure, some folks got carried away and it became a competition but you
are
> >going to see that in any area of child rearing. And, all in all, it is
> >healthier for the kids to be out of the diapers.
> >
> >Lynda
> >
> >----------
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

Lynda

Kidlet's 1, 2, 3 and 6 were all early readers (4 ish). Kidlet #4 is my
"instant" child and that caused a problem for him with reading. If he
can't learn something perfectly and instantly, he quits and while he could
"instantly" do math, he couldn't instantly read, so he quit. Kidlet #5 is
a professional couch potato, no, that implies too much energy, he is an
over cooked noodle. He is the only one that had any problems with potty
training and then only at night (daytime was about 14 mo). Took too much
energy to get up and go downstairs, literally. If he had been a heavy
sleeper, I won't have minded or if it had been for any other reason but it
was just plain old fashioned laziness. So we had a major discussion about
this. He didn't read well until he was about 10 and again, it was because
he was lazy, get someone else to do it for him kinda thing. I finally had
to say that if he wanted to "read" a particular book, he would have to do
it himself as he was driving the other kidlets nuts. Within a couple of
weeks he was reading everything in sight.

So, with my kidlets, I don't see a correlation.

Lynda

----------
> From: Brown <mjcmbrwn@...>
>
> I have 4 boys, 3 of whom were day and night 'trained' between 2 and 2 1/2
years.
> The other was day 'trained by 3 1/3, but still having 'accidents' at
night at 6.
> They are just built differently. However, although I never 'trained' them
as
> such, when I noticed that they had some control, they were offered the
> potty/toilet (3 preferred the toilet straight off) consistently, and most
diaper
> changes they were reminded that they could use the potty/toilet if they
wanted.
>
> I agree that cloth nappies encourage them, cause they feel yucky!
>
> BUT, I wonder: 3 of my boys learned to read between 9 and 12 years. The
other
> started at 3 and was more than proficient by 4 1/2. And yes, the 3 that
were
> early toilet trained were also the late readers. Anyone else experience
that?
> I've only just noticed that correlation.
>
> Carol
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com