Housecleaning/homemaking/doing for others
Rachel Ann
I do for my children. Constantly. I pour water/milk/juice for those who
want it. Constantly. I do sometimes say; no, you can do it yourself, but
this is rare. I sometimes am grouchy about it, but not usually. I
sometimes say in a minute, and sometimes I need to be reminded that the
minute is up...or whatever.
My children, especially the older ones, think I do too much. For them. My
son thinks I am an incredible wimp because I opened a can of tuna for him.
At age 18. They have actually yelled at me NOT to help them because I have
jumped up to get them something or offered to do something for them that
they could do for themselves.
Children do need loving, and if a child is feeling hurt,ill,scared etc. I
respond as quickly as possible.
I generally don't yell about the house and the state of its being...floors
always coated with toys, no surface free of something. I do contribute to
the mess, so it isn't just the children...it is me too. I have rarely
demanded that they clean anything; their rooms, the house etc.
So why is it that they seem to disrespect me for these very things?
be well,
Rachel Ann
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
want it. Constantly. I do sometimes say; no, you can do it yourself, but
this is rare. I sometimes am grouchy about it, but not usually. I
sometimes say in a minute, and sometimes I need to be reminded that the
minute is up...or whatever.
My children, especially the older ones, think I do too much. For them. My
son thinks I am an incredible wimp because I opened a can of tuna for him.
At age 18. They have actually yelled at me NOT to help them because I have
jumped up to get them something or offered to do something for them that
they could do for themselves.
Children do need loving, and if a child is feeling hurt,ill,scared etc. I
respond as quickly as possible.
I generally don't yell about the house and the state of its being...floors
always coated with toys, no surface free of something. I do contribute to
the mess, so it isn't just the children...it is me too. I have rarely
demanded that they clean anything; their rooms, the house etc.
So why is it that they seem to disrespect me for these very things?
be well,
Rachel Ann
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: Rachel Ann <hindar@...><<So why is it that they seem to disrespect me for these very things?>>
From your post, it seems like I am pretty much the same way. My husband
thinks I do for my kids too much also. The kids are so use to the gates
being up in the kitchen that when they aren't, the kids put their stuff on
the counter for me anyway. (pass through from kitchen to playroom) So
instead of saying, "the gates down put your own glass or plate away", I grab
it and do it. What's the big deal, I'm standing right there. I'll pour their
cereal or toast their bagel or poptart or get them a cookie. Again, I enjoy
doing for them and don't see it as life altering doing these things. My kids
do appreciate it. When I ask, "who will help me clean up?" I usually get 2-3
responses as in "I'll help you." Sometimes it's only one, I always get at
least that though. Tonight my daughter was crampy. When I asked if she took
anything, she said she would. I went and got her some ice tea and the pills
and brought them to her to take. She'd do the same for me and has.
My husband has a tendency to think sometimes that when kids can do for
themselves, they should. This doesn't creep into his thinking often, usually
only when I've had a rough day or haven't slept in days. Of course he also
thinks I do too much for him also.
Anyway, I lost my thought. You were wondering why doing all these things has
your children not showing you respect. Could it be that you jump up to do
when you aren't even asked? I've been yelled at by my husband and mom for
that reason. My mom says I have a rubber butt.....bouncing up and down all
the time. All someone has to do is mention something and I'm up getting it.
Usually they had all the intention of getting it themselves. I just won't
give them the chance. My husband still jokes that he had to retrain me when
we met. I was always jumping up to get whatever he wanted. I was previously
married to one of those guys that Sandra thinks are now 95. They do still
exist!!
So maybe you are doing too much without being asked and without giving
anyone a chance to do for themselves. You said you are constantly doing for
others, maybe slow down and look at exactly what you are doing and what the
circumstances are at the time.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Fetteroll
on 1/9/03 8:48 PM, Rachel Ann at hindar@... wrote:
I have to help."
So I'll ask, Would you feel guilty if you didn't help them?
I've seen women, supposedly happy women, who are motivated by the need to be
needed.
I had an aunt like that. Actually she was at the far end of the spectrum of
needing to be needed. She would go out of her way to do all this stuff for a
Thanksgiving meal even though she used a walker and was incredibly heavy so
moving around was a huge chore for her. Our visit created a need for her to
be needed. It was nice but it was also smothering and actually controlling
because she also needed the feedback that her enormous efforts were needed
to the extent she was giving. Though she never asked for the feedback she
would have occasional bursts of paranoia that people in general were taking
advantage of her.
And it isn't like she didn't have friends. She seemed to have lots of
friends and they seemed very generous themselves, going out of their way to
ask her what she needed. Perhaps because she was so happy on the surface and
generous. The friends supposedly never visited her even though 1 or 2 would
drop by during the 8 or so hours of our visits. I suspect no one ever quite
gave back as much as she expected to receive from what she gave.
She *needed* to provide things for us.
She once told me about the young men she dated who wanted to marry her but
the one she chose is the one she felt sorry for. Perhaps she felt he's the
one who needed her most. I suspect she was never happy, but she did what she
thought was right.
Joyce
> My children, especially the older ones, think I do too much. For them. MyIt's possible there's something in your attitude that says "You've asked so
> son thinks I am an incredible wimp because I opened a can of tuna for him.
I have to help."
So I'll ask, Would you feel guilty if you didn't help them?
I've seen women, supposedly happy women, who are motivated by the need to be
needed.
I had an aunt like that. Actually she was at the far end of the spectrum of
needing to be needed. She would go out of her way to do all this stuff for a
Thanksgiving meal even though she used a walker and was incredibly heavy so
moving around was a huge chore for her. Our visit created a need for her to
be needed. It was nice but it was also smothering and actually controlling
because she also needed the feedback that her enormous efforts were needed
to the extent she was giving. Though she never asked for the feedback she
would have occasional bursts of paranoia that people in general were taking
advantage of her.
And it isn't like she didn't have friends. She seemed to have lots of
friends and they seemed very generous themselves, going out of their way to
ask her what she needed. Perhaps because she was so happy on the surface and
generous. The friends supposedly never visited her even though 1 or 2 would
drop by during the 8 or so hours of our visits. I suspect no one ever quite
gave back as much as she expected to receive from what she gave.
She *needed* to provide things for us.
She once told me about the young men she dated who wanted to marry her but
the one she chose is the one she felt sorry for. Perhaps she felt he's the
one who needed her most. I suspect she was never happy, but she did what she
thought was right.
Joyce
Rachel Ann
I will have to concede this point. I do like being needed. And yes, I do
feel guilty if my children want something and I don't get it immediately. I
ll even say no, then change it to yes because I feel wrong that I have said
no.
But don't most people want to be needed? I don't get paid for what I do in
a monetary sense, but the feeling that I have done something helpful for
someone else makes me feel good. I don't rely on their thanks, btw, to feel
good; that isn't my demand; I get pleasure from simply knowing I was of
service to someone else. I didn't think this was a bad thing to feel. But
maybe I'm trying to get the feeling where it doesn't belong?
feel guilty if my children want something and I don't get it immediately. I
ll even say no, then change it to yes because I feel wrong that I have said
no.
But don't most people want to be needed? I don't get paid for what I do in
a monetary sense, but the feeling that I have done something helpful for
someone else makes me feel good. I don't rely on their thanks, btw, to feel
good; that isn't my demand; I get pleasure from simply knowing I was of
service to someone else. I didn't think this was a bad thing to feel. But
maybe I'm trying to get the feeling where it doesn't belong?
>So I'll ask, Would you feel guilty if you didn't help them?be
>I've seen women, supposedly happy women, who are motivated by the need to
>needed.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 1/10/03 9:13 AM, Rachel Ann at hindar@... wrote:
But I think what attitude we project has to do with where the priority of
that need is in our lives.
maybe?
I think my reaction is more of a "Glad to help!" rather than a sense of
happiness at having been of service.
If you listed the things that make you happy, how high up would helping
people be? I think I would list it well down on the list. (But then I'm
about as introverted as they get so there's that factor!)
This is so hard to try to get at the subtle differences! So I hope it's not
coming across as you would do better to have the feelings I do!
But there are *reasons* that we have the feelings we do and reasons why we
order the list of things that make us happy. Some reasons are healthier than
others.
other factor involved.
This is really out of my depth, but I've noticed that sometimes people
express that they had a need to be needed when there was alcoholic behavior
in their family. I know others, some here, have gone through getting past
that with ... is it ACoA?
That might not be a factor at all in your case so you'd need to look for
more subtle (or big!) things that might be affecting your attitudes and what
people are reading them as.
Joyce
> But don't most people want to be needed?Most definitely.
But I think what attitude we project has to do with where the priority of
that need is in our lives.
> but the feeling that I have done something helpful forI think I help because someone needs help. It's more of a practical thing
> someone else makes me feel good.
maybe?
I think my reaction is more of a "Glad to help!" rather than a sense of
happiness at having been of service.
If you listed the things that make you happy, how high up would helping
people be? I think I would list it well down on the list. (But then I'm
about as introverted as they get so there's that factor!)
This is so hard to try to get at the subtle differences! So I hope it's not
coming across as you would do better to have the feelings I do!
But there are *reasons* that we have the feelings we do and reasons why we
order the list of things that make us happy. Some reasons are healthier than
others.
> I didn't think this was a bad thing to feel. ButI don't think it's bad. But if not helping leads to guilt then there's some
> maybe I'm trying to get the feeling where it doesn't belong?
other factor involved.
This is really out of my depth, but I've noticed that sometimes people
express that they had a need to be needed when there was alcoholic behavior
in their family. I know others, some here, have gone through getting past
that with ... is it ACoA?
That might not be a factor at all in your case so you'd need to look for
more subtle (or big!) things that might be affecting your attitudes and what
people are reading them as.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/10/03 10:24:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
people like my SIL. She needs to be needed. When her two older children
tried to leave the nest she guilted them into coming back home. "Oh I need
you, you never know how long your granmother will live...she could die
tomorrow then wouldn't you feel bad living soooofar away from home....."
(that was about 5 years ago and Gram is still going strong) "I know you
passed the bar but do you realllly want to live in Boston...couldn't you stay
here in Maine and look for a job...how about waiting until after the
holidays...I really need you here...How about waiting until after your
birthday party...." She is lost without her children, has 4...was so elated
when the oldest two had career trouble and had to come back home for a few
weeks. Didn't want them to leave. When the youngest two move out I think
she will be totally lost. She has no friends...her job is at the school that
the two youngest attend so she can be closer to them...
She is a really nice person but her entire life is wrapped up in the children
with no hobbies of her own. She needs to be needed. Very sad actually.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> >But don't most people want to be needed?There is a difference. Yes, most people want to be needed. Then there are
>
>
people like my SIL. She needs to be needed. When her two older children
tried to leave the nest she guilted them into coming back home. "Oh I need
you, you never know how long your granmother will live...she could die
tomorrow then wouldn't you feel bad living soooofar away from home....."
(that was about 5 years ago and Gram is still going strong) "I know you
passed the bar but do you realllly want to live in Boston...couldn't you stay
here in Maine and look for a job...how about waiting until after the
holidays...I really need you here...How about waiting until after your
birthday party...." She is lost without her children, has 4...was so elated
when the oldest two had career trouble and had to come back home for a few
weeks. Didn't want them to leave. When the youngest two move out I think
she will be totally lost. She has no friends...her job is at the school that
the two youngest attend so she can be closer to them...
She is a really nice person but her entire life is wrapped up in the children
with no hobbies of her own. She needs to be needed. Very sad actually.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachel Ann
Well, you are 1 for 2. I wasn't raised in an a alcoholic home. My parents
weren't teetotalers either, they had a normal, or what I would call a normal
relationship with alcohol. Once a week, or at parties, but otherwise no.
And I too am an introvert; the internet has allowed me to be more vocal than
I would otherwise. I hate speaking out, can't stand large parties etc.
However your post and Pam's have given me food for thought. Thank you
be well,
Rachel Ann
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:39:21
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Housecleaning/homemaking/doing for others
on 1/10/03 9:13 AM, Rachel Ann at hindar@... wrote:
But I think what attitude we project has to do with where the priority of
that need is in our lives.
maybe?
I think my reaction is more of a "Glad to help!" rather than a sense of
happiness at having been of service.
If you listed the things that make you happy, how high up would helping
people be? I think I would list it well down on the list. (But then I'm
about as introverted as they get so there's that factor!)
This is so hard to try to get at the subtle differences! So I hope it's not
coming across as you would do better to have the feelings I do!
But there are *reasons* that we have the feelings we do and reasons why we
order the list of things that make us happy. Some reasons are healthier than
others.
other factor involved.
This is really out of my depth, but I've noticed that sometimes people
express that they had a need to be needed when there was alcoholic behavior
in their family. I know others, some here, have gone through getting past
that with ... is it ACoA?
That might not be a factor at all in your case so you'd need to look for
more subtle (or big!) things that might be affecting your attitudes and what
people are reading them as.
Joyce
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
weren't teetotalers either, they had a normal, or what I would call a normal
relationship with alcohol. Once a week, or at parties, but otherwise no.
And I too am an introvert; the internet has allowed me to be more vocal than
I would otherwise. I hate speaking out, can't stand large parties etc.
However your post and Pam's have given me food for thought. Thank you
be well,
Rachel Ann
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:39:21
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Housecleaning/homemaking/doing for others
on 1/10/03 9:13 AM, Rachel Ann at hindar@... wrote:
> But don't most people want to be needed?Most definitely.
But I think what attitude we project has to do with where the priority of
that need is in our lives.
> but the feeling that I have done something helpful forI think I help because someone needs help. It's more of a practical thing
> someone else makes me feel good.
maybe?
I think my reaction is more of a "Glad to help!" rather than a sense of
happiness at having been of service.
If you listed the things that make you happy, how high up would helping
people be? I think I would list it well down on the list. (But then I'm
about as introverted as they get so there's that factor!)
This is so hard to try to get at the subtle differences! So I hope it's not
coming across as you would do better to have the feelings I do!
But there are *reasons* that we have the feelings we do and reasons why we
order the list of things that make us happy. Some reasons are healthier than
others.
> I didn't think this was a bad thing to feel. ButI don't think it's bad. But if not helping leads to guilt then there's some
> maybe I'm trying to get the feeling where it doesn't belong?
other factor involved.
This is really out of my depth, but I've noticed that sometimes people
express that they had a need to be needed when there was alcoholic behavior
in their family. I know others, some here, have gone through getting past
that with ... is it ACoA?
That might not be a factor at all in your case so you'd need to look for
more subtle (or big!) things that might be affecting your attitudes and what
people are reading them as.
Joyce
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: Rachel Ann <hindar@...><<I will have to concede this point. I do like being needed. And yes, I do
feel guilty if my children want something and I don't get it immediately.
Ill even say no, then change it to yes because I feel wrong that I have said
no.
But don't most people want to be needed? I don't get paid for what I do in
a monetary sense, but the feeling that I have done something helpful for
someone else makes me feel good. I don't rely on their thanks, btw, to feel
good; that isn't my demand; I get pleasure from simply knowing I was of
service to someone else. I didn't think this was a bad thing to feel. But
maybe I'm trying to get the feeling where it doesn't belong?>>
Maybe it has to do with just that, how if feels to us and what exactly we
are looking for and what we are getting. I don't see it exactly in terms of
me being needed, I see it as me doing a great job. My family is everything
to me right now as in my number one priority. I have plasn for myself when
the kids are older, but right now, it's all about them. So for me, keeping
them happy and safe and healthy is my job. It's a job I take very serioulsy
and make sure I do it well. I also happen to love my job. But again I don't
see it for myself as important that I am needed. Although it is important to
be needed, I don't exactly look at it that way.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/9/03 11:59:36 PM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< My husband has a tendency to think sometimes that when kids can do for
themselves, they should. This doesn't creep into his thinking often, usually
only when I've had a rough day or haven't slept in days. Of course he also
thinks I do too much for him also. >>
Wow. I didn't know any husbands could feel that way!!
Honestly, sometimes I wish I could go just one week of doing so much my
husband would say "enough." His mom is not friendly, but also militarily
organized and scheduled and her kitchen is repainted every two years and when
we went for Thanksgiving she had re-upholstered her dining room chairs which
are only used for bridge club and Thanksgiving anyway. She re-upholstered
them a dozen years or so ago too.
Here's the mean thing Keith did when he was home:
His whole life, the heat was down too low to save money. He was cold many
winter nights growing up.
Now that his mom is old she turns the heat up.
He thought it was too hot for him to sleep comfortably and turned the heat
down on the way to bed.
I didn't know that until on the way home, but I did hear his mom get up at
6:30 or so and mutter and complain to herself that someone had turned it down.
Her being in the bed at 6:30 was notable too. Usually she's up making a lot
of noise at 5:30, making sure everyone feels guilty when they finally drag
out [too early] at 7:00 and she's already made breakfast.
Keith got to be 46 years old before he did something as mean as turning the
heat down on a 78 year old woman (or however old she is).
That is a case of her doing a LOT but rarely doing anything kind or personal
or loving for any individual. If they COULD do it, they SHOULD do it, but
they would never do it right or well enough or early enough to suit her.
I start to feel guilty for not re-upholstering anything (we did a living room
chair's removeable cushions years ago, in patchwork denim), and then I
remember that I actually care whether my kids are warm enough at night, and I
try to be quiet so they can sleep as long as they need to. I don't even feel
like I "own the thermostat" here, nor that I own the schedule.
If we were living on a farm there would be other realities, but we're living
on income from my husband's engineering job, there are no cows to milk, and
we can focus on human factors in a way few to no generations in the past had
the luxury of doing.
I didn't mean to go so far off track, but I think it's related, in deciding
who owns what decisions and duties.
Sandra
<< My husband has a tendency to think sometimes that when kids can do for
themselves, they should. This doesn't creep into his thinking often, usually
only when I've had a rough day or haven't slept in days. Of course he also
thinks I do too much for him also. >>
Wow. I didn't know any husbands could feel that way!!
Honestly, sometimes I wish I could go just one week of doing so much my
husband would say "enough." His mom is not friendly, but also militarily
organized and scheduled and her kitchen is repainted every two years and when
we went for Thanksgiving she had re-upholstered her dining room chairs which
are only used for bridge club and Thanksgiving anyway. She re-upholstered
them a dozen years or so ago too.
Here's the mean thing Keith did when he was home:
His whole life, the heat was down too low to save money. He was cold many
winter nights growing up.
Now that his mom is old she turns the heat up.
He thought it was too hot for him to sleep comfortably and turned the heat
down on the way to bed.
I didn't know that until on the way home, but I did hear his mom get up at
6:30 or so and mutter and complain to herself that someone had turned it down.
Her being in the bed at 6:30 was notable too. Usually she's up making a lot
of noise at 5:30, making sure everyone feels guilty when they finally drag
out [too early] at 7:00 and she's already made breakfast.
Keith got to be 46 years old before he did something as mean as turning the
heat down on a 78 year old woman (or however old she is).
That is a case of her doing a LOT but rarely doing anything kind or personal
or loving for any individual. If they COULD do it, they SHOULD do it, but
they would never do it right or well enough or early enough to suit her.
I start to feel guilty for not re-upholstering anything (we did a living room
chair's removeable cushions years ago, in patchwork denim), and then I
remember that I actually care whether my kids are warm enough at night, and I
try to be quiet so they can sleep as long as they need to. I don't even feel
like I "own the thermostat" here, nor that I own the schedule.
If we were living on a farm there would be other realities, but we're living
on income from my husband's engineering job, there are no cows to milk, and
we can focus on human factors in a way few to no generations in the past had
the luxury of doing.
I didn't mean to go so far off track, but I think it's related, in deciding
who owns what decisions and duties.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/10/03 8:24:22 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< If you listed the things that make you happy, how high up would helping
people be? I think I would list it well down on the list. (But then I'm
about as introverted as they get so there's that factor!) >>
It's way up there for me.
But some seasons my friends aren't needy and I get out of the pattern. The
family stuff doesn't provide the same kind of satisfaction as people coming
and saying they can't figure out how to get a service contract fulfilled, or
that they need to file a grievance at work and want help writing the letter,
or they've just remembered early sexual abuse and want to talk to someone.
Its the lawyerish/counsellor stuff that's fun for me.
When I read the bit about the woman marrying the man who needed her most my
stomach fluttered, because I did that once. Just told that story the other
day. Instead of marrying the man I had planned to marry, I got in a snit at
him about something and I married a friend whose parents had died, and he
would not get custody of his 12 and 10 year old siblings because he was
unmarried. They *NEEDED* me.
I shudder to remember all that.
But my need to be needed seems to have been a predictable pattern of adult
children of alcoholics. If I couldn't save my own mother's world, maybe the
emergency response skills I had garnered over the years could be used to save
OTHER families!
That lasted three years, and then Keith found me. He was not as needy.
Whether it was good or not, that was 25 years ago.
Sandra
<< If you listed the things that make you happy, how high up would helping
people be? I think I would list it well down on the list. (But then I'm
about as introverted as they get so there's that factor!) >>
It's way up there for me.
But some seasons my friends aren't needy and I get out of the pattern. The
family stuff doesn't provide the same kind of satisfaction as people coming
and saying they can't figure out how to get a service contract fulfilled, or
that they need to file a grievance at work and want help writing the letter,
or they've just remembered early sexual abuse and want to talk to someone.
Its the lawyerish/counsellor stuff that's fun for me.
When I read the bit about the woman marrying the man who needed her most my
stomach fluttered, because I did that once. Just told that story the other
day. Instead of marrying the man I had planned to marry, I got in a snit at
him about something and I married a friend whose parents had died, and he
would not get custody of his 12 and 10 year old siblings because he was
unmarried. They *NEEDED* me.
I shudder to remember all that.
But my need to be needed seems to have been a predictable pattern of adult
children of alcoholics. If I couldn't save my own mother's world, maybe the
emergency response skills I had garnered over the years could be used to save
OTHER families!
That lasted three years, and then Keith found me. He was not as needy.
Whether it was good or not, that was 25 years ago.
Sandra
Betsy
**If they COULD do it, they SHOULD do it, but
they would never do it right or well enough or early enough to suit her.**
I don't think anyone is ever strong and mature enough to learn to do a
new task under the eagle-eye of a harsh perfectionist. It's just asking
for pain.
Betsy
they would never do it right or well enough or early enough to suit her.**
I don't think anyone is ever strong and mature enough to learn to do a
new task under the eagle-eye of a harsh perfectionist. It's just asking
for pain.
Betsy
Colonel Newton
So why is it that they seem to disrespect me for these very things?
be well,
Rachel Ann
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rachel Ann,
I'm wondering... might it be possible that they feel that *you* aren't putting enough faith in them to do these things themselves?
What I mean is: let's say I'm visiting my mom. If she fixed my bowl of cereal, picked up my dirty clothes, whatever, I'd feel as though she was treating me like a child. I would feel that she thought I was an imbecile who couldn't care for herself.
If it were a situation where I lived there and she continued to do "everything" for me, I'd also start wondering why she seemed to have no respect for herself. I DO think that part of living in a family means that everyone is responsible to everyone else-- creating a mess and then expecting someone else to clean it up for you is disrespectful. If this occurred in my household and I'd made a mess and my mom cleaned it up, I'd feel as though she was allowing herself to be treated more like a servant than a mom.
Maybe that's just me-- but I think that there's a certain level of give & take here. Yes, as others have said, sometimes requests for help are a way of asking for something totally different that the child cannot yet articulate. And sometimes making a mess and expecting mom to take care of it is an expression of disrespect to mom. And I also think that continually having mom pick up after me would make me feel that she saw me as incompetent AND that she didn't have much respect for herself as a member of the family.
I don't know... could any of that be what's going on? What do you kids say about it, exactly?
Teresa G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be well,
Rachel Ann
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rachel Ann,
I'm wondering... might it be possible that they feel that *you* aren't putting enough faith in them to do these things themselves?
What I mean is: let's say I'm visiting my mom. If she fixed my bowl of cereal, picked up my dirty clothes, whatever, I'd feel as though she was treating me like a child. I would feel that she thought I was an imbecile who couldn't care for herself.
If it were a situation where I lived there and she continued to do "everything" for me, I'd also start wondering why she seemed to have no respect for herself. I DO think that part of living in a family means that everyone is responsible to everyone else-- creating a mess and then expecting someone else to clean it up for you is disrespectful. If this occurred in my household and I'd made a mess and my mom cleaned it up, I'd feel as though she was allowing herself to be treated more like a servant than a mom.
Maybe that's just me-- but I think that there's a certain level of give & take here. Yes, as others have said, sometimes requests for help are a way of asking for something totally different that the child cannot yet articulate. And sometimes making a mess and expecting mom to take care of it is an expression of disrespect to mom. And I also think that continually having mom pick up after me would make me feel that she saw me as incompetent AND that she didn't have much respect for herself as a member of the family.
I don't know... could any of that be what's going on? What do you kids say about it, exactly?
Teresa G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 1/10/03 7:55 PM, Colonel Newton at colnewt@... wrote:
up after them. They just don't care. Or the task is more overwhelming than
the results.
If we assume kids are living with the same values that we have, we're going
to see their behavior much differently than if we look at the world through
*their* values.
They're going to value having their toys spread out a lot more than having
the room neat. Even if they appreciate being able to find something when the
house is neat, that aspect may not be worth the effort needed to keep things
neat.
If your husband valued a well scoured garage floor and expected you to scour
it if you tracked dirt on it, if you left it to him, would that be a sign of
disrespect? Or would you be respecting your own need to determine what was
worth your time and energy?
Joyce
> And sometimes making a mess and expecting mom to take care of it is anBut that's not how children view the world. They *don't* expect mom to clean
> expression of disrespect to mom.
up after them. They just don't care. Or the task is more overwhelming than
the results.
If we assume kids are living with the same values that we have, we're going
to see their behavior much differently than if we look at the world through
*their* values.
They're going to value having their toys spread out a lot more than having
the room neat. Even if they appreciate being able to find something when the
house is neat, that aspect may not be worth the effort needed to keep things
neat.
If your husband valued a well scoured garage floor and expected you to scour
it if you tracked dirt on it, if you left it to him, would that be a sign of
disrespect? Or would you be respecting your own need to determine what was
worth your time and energy?
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/11/03 5:22:18 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< > And sometimes making a mess and expecting mom to take care of it is an
up after them. They just don't care. Or the task is more overwhelming than
the results. >>
Or they're just little and that's not part of their awareness in any way
wahtsoever.
My mom used to spank my baby brother (I was 19/20 and up and out, and saw her
swat a baby in a crib, way more than once) because he was "being
manipulative," and because he "didn't care if he woke people up."
Children do not think like adults. Accusing them of being manipulative or
cold or disrespectful doesn't help.
Sandra
<< > And sometimes making a mess and expecting mom to take care of it is an
> expression of disrespect to mom.But that's not how children view the world. They *don't* expect mom to clean
up after them. They just don't care. Or the task is more overwhelming than
the results. >>
Or they're just little and that's not part of their awareness in any way
wahtsoever.
My mom used to spank my baby brother (I was 19/20 and up and out, and saw her
swat a baby in a crib, way more than once) because he was "being
manipulative," and because he "didn't care if he woke people up."
Children do not think like adults. Accusing them of being manipulative or
cold or disrespectful doesn't help.
Sandra