Diploma
Bill Brauker <[email protected]>
My daughter is 17, very intelligent and artistic. (Aren't all
unschoolers.) She has decided not to go to college at this time, but
is very interested in going to a beauty school to be a hairdresser.
She loves the creative nature of it.
Yesterday, she got the application for the school and it said you
must have a GED or diploma. She was really stressed. I said don't
worry about it, as headmaster of the Tintagel Day School, (we love
the King Arthur stories so have coined that name for our unschool) I
will design you a diploma and sign it for you.
She still is unsure, so I would like to hear from other people what
their experience has been with this issue.
We live in Colorado, if that makes any difference.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill Brauker
www.brauker.com
unschoolers.) She has decided not to go to college at this time, but
is very interested in going to a beauty school to be a hairdresser.
She loves the creative nature of it.
Yesterday, she got the application for the school and it said you
must have a GED or diploma. She was really stressed. I said don't
worry about it, as headmaster of the Tintagel Day School, (we love
the King Arthur stories so have coined that name for our unschool) I
will design you a diploma and sign it for you.
She still is unsure, so I would like to hear from other people what
their experience has been with this issue.
We live in Colorado, if that makes any difference.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill Brauker
www.brauker.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/9/03 12:08:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, bill@...
writes:
<beg>
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> My daughter is 17, very intelligent and artistic. (Aren't allNope. Mine aren't 17.
> unschoolers.)
<beg>
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Helen Hegener
At 5:05 PM +0000 1/9/03, Bill Brauker <bill@...> wrote:
always been unschooled - when he wanted to join the Army a couple of
years ago. They accepted it without question, along with his homemade
description of what he'd learned and why he was interested in joining
the service.
I'll post a couple of things from the American Homeschool Association
that might be of interest to you and others on this list.
Helen
>Yesterday, she got the application for the school and it said youMy sister designed a homemade diploma for her oldest son - who'd
>must have a GED or diploma. She was really stressed. I said don't
>worry about it, as headmaster of the Tintagel Day School, (we love
>the King Arthur stories so have coined that name for our unschool) I
>will design you a diploma and sign it for you.
>
>She still is unsure, so I would like to hear from other people what
>their experience has been with this issue.
always been unschooled - when he wanted to join the Army a couple of
years ago. They accepted it without question, along with his homemade
description of what he'd learned and why he was interested in joining
the service.
I'll post a couple of things from the American Homeschool Association
that might be of interest to you and others on this list.
Helen
Helen Hegener
Seeking a Diploma for your Homeschooled Child?
Check out these archived columns from Home Education Magazine:
"How Do We Know When We're Done?" by Cafi Cohen. You can read it free
at this page:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/HEM154.98/154.98_clmn_ok.html
An excerpt: If you attend high school, it's simple. From roughly the
ages of 14-18, you sit in a chair six hours a day for 180 days each
year. You study carefully balanced amounts of English, math, social
studies, and science, and take extras like foreign language, physical
education, and drama. Do all that with passing grades, and they give
you a diploma.
But how do homeschooling families decide when their
teenagers have completed high school? What combination of academic
work, accomplishment, and time is enough?
How do families evaluate their teenager's learning and decide
What's Enough?
"Don't Let Credentials Get You Down." It's available free online at this page:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/HEM152.98/152.98_clmn_tkch.html
An excerpt: How do homeschoolers get high school diplomas and other
credentials?" The question is not a new one. We've asked ourselves
and other people have certainly asked us. However, recent
developments are making the answer more complicated than it used to
be, in some ways limiting the options available to homeschoolers who
want conventional credentials.
Should we homeschoolers be worried about getting
conventional credentials? Are homeschoolers' futures jeopardized
because the path to a conventional diploma is less clear-cut than it
is for a student in a conventional school? Why and how is the process
of getting a diploma becoming more complex? What choices do we have?
This column will address these questions.
If you're still interested in obtaining a diploma, there's a good
list of diploma programs at this site:
http://www.homeschoolteenscollege.net/diplomaisp.htm
But please note that thousands of homeschoolers succeed with college
admissions and job application processes without the support of any
external diploma program. For more information about the American
Homeschool Association's free services see below.
Hope this helps!
Elizabeth Burke for the
American Homeschool Association
AHA@...
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
AMERICAN HOMESCHOOL ASSOCIATION
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
For information contact: AHA@...
The American Homeschool Association (AHA), is a service organization
created in 1995 to network homeschoolers on a national level and to
provide news and information about homeschooling. Current AHA
services include a free online discussion list providing news,
information, networking, and resources; a free email newsletter; and
a web site providing categorized links to the most helpful and
informative pages of homeschooling information on the Internet. The
AHA is a free services organization. There are no membership fees,
and no fees to use the services provided by the AHA.
The American Homeschool Association web site
<http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org> includes links to
interviews with many homeschooling personalities, including Linda
Dobson, David Albert, Mary Griffith, Cafi Cohen, Patrick Farenga,
Marty Layne, Grace Llewellyn, and others. Also included is a
several-year collection of columns from Home Education Magazine by
Larry and Susan Kaseman, authors of "Taking Charge Through
Homeschooling: Personal and Political Empowerment" (1990, Koshkonong
Press), addressing issues such as Working for Homeschooling Freedoms,
Curfews, "Homeschooling" Programs in the Public Schools, User
Friendly Homeschooling Records, Tax Credits and Homeschooling,
Homeschoolers' Playing Public School Sports, the Question of
Credentials, the School-to-Work program, Homeschooling Legislation,
Doing the Minimum to Comply With Homeschooling Laws, and much more.
The AHA's History of Homeschooling series provides wide-ranging
perspective, by knowledgeable writers, on where we've been as a
homeschooling movement and where we're going in the future. A lengthy
collection of helpful and informative articles, columns, essays,
editorials, FAQs and other formats showcase the best writing on a
wide variety of topics, from sources all across the Internet.
The American Homeschool Association's resource pages direct
homeschoolers to helpful books, magazines, newsletters, websites and
more. Listings show how to contact other homeschoolers through
support groups, organizations, or online networks. And finally, a
unique page of favorite quotes and excerpts on homeschooling,
children, learning, and families highlights the perspective of the
American Homeschool Association.
If you're searching for information about homeschooling - whether
you're a concerned parent, a media writer, an academic researcher, an
education professional, or already a homeschooler - check out the
excellent collection of information and resources offered at the
American Homeschool Association web sites:
* American Homeschool Association
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
* AHA Email Discussion List
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AHA-Discussion
* AHA Free Email Newsletter
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AHA-Newsletter
The American Homeschool Association
Post Office Box 759
Palmer, Alaska 99645-0759
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
emailto: AHA@...
<emailto:AHA@...>
[end of file]
* * * * * * *
Check out these archived columns from Home Education Magazine:
"How Do We Know When We're Done?" by Cafi Cohen. You can read it free
at this page:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/HEM154.98/154.98_clmn_ok.html
An excerpt: If you attend high school, it's simple. From roughly the
ages of 14-18, you sit in a chair six hours a day for 180 days each
year. You study carefully balanced amounts of English, math, social
studies, and science, and take extras like foreign language, physical
education, and drama. Do all that with passing grades, and they give
you a diploma.
But how do homeschooling families decide when their
teenagers have completed high school? What combination of academic
work, accomplishment, and time is enough?
How do families evaluate their teenager's learning and decide
What's Enough?
"Don't Let Credentials Get You Down." It's available free online at this page:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/HEM152.98/152.98_clmn_tkch.html
An excerpt: How do homeschoolers get high school diplomas and other
credentials?" The question is not a new one. We've asked ourselves
and other people have certainly asked us. However, recent
developments are making the answer more complicated than it used to
be, in some ways limiting the options available to homeschoolers who
want conventional credentials.
Should we homeschoolers be worried about getting
conventional credentials? Are homeschoolers' futures jeopardized
because the path to a conventional diploma is less clear-cut than it
is for a student in a conventional school? Why and how is the process
of getting a diploma becoming more complex? What choices do we have?
This column will address these questions.
If you're still interested in obtaining a diploma, there's a good
list of diploma programs at this site:
http://www.homeschoolteenscollege.net/diplomaisp.htm
But please note that thousands of homeschoolers succeed with college
admissions and job application processes without the support of any
external diploma program. For more information about the American
Homeschool Association's free services see below.
Hope this helps!
Elizabeth Burke for the
American Homeschool Association
AHA@...
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
AMERICAN HOMESCHOOL ASSOCIATION
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
For information contact: AHA@...
The American Homeschool Association (AHA), is a service organization
created in 1995 to network homeschoolers on a national level and to
provide news and information about homeschooling. Current AHA
services include a free online discussion list providing news,
information, networking, and resources; a free email newsletter; and
a web site providing categorized links to the most helpful and
informative pages of homeschooling information on the Internet. The
AHA is a free services organization. There are no membership fees,
and no fees to use the services provided by the AHA.
The American Homeschool Association web site
<http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org> includes links to
interviews with many homeschooling personalities, including Linda
Dobson, David Albert, Mary Griffith, Cafi Cohen, Patrick Farenga,
Marty Layne, Grace Llewellyn, and others. Also included is a
several-year collection of columns from Home Education Magazine by
Larry and Susan Kaseman, authors of "Taking Charge Through
Homeschooling: Personal and Political Empowerment" (1990, Koshkonong
Press), addressing issues such as Working for Homeschooling Freedoms,
Curfews, "Homeschooling" Programs in the Public Schools, User
Friendly Homeschooling Records, Tax Credits and Homeschooling,
Homeschoolers' Playing Public School Sports, the Question of
Credentials, the School-to-Work program, Homeschooling Legislation,
Doing the Minimum to Comply With Homeschooling Laws, and much more.
The AHA's History of Homeschooling series provides wide-ranging
perspective, by knowledgeable writers, on where we've been as a
homeschooling movement and where we're going in the future. A lengthy
collection of helpful and informative articles, columns, essays,
editorials, FAQs and other formats showcase the best writing on a
wide variety of topics, from sources all across the Internet.
The American Homeschool Association's resource pages direct
homeschoolers to helpful books, magazines, newsletters, websites and
more. Listings show how to contact other homeschoolers through
support groups, organizations, or online networks. And finally, a
unique page of favorite quotes and excerpts on homeschooling,
children, learning, and families highlights the perspective of the
American Homeschool Association.
If you're searching for information about homeschooling - whether
you're a concerned parent, a media writer, an academic researcher, an
education professional, or already a homeschooler - check out the
excellent collection of information and resources offered at the
American Homeschool Association web sites:
* American Homeschool Association
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
* AHA Email Discussion List
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AHA-Discussion
* AHA Free Email Newsletter
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AHA-Newsletter
The American Homeschool Association
Post Office Box 759
Palmer, Alaska 99645-0759
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
emailto: AHA@...
<emailto:AHA@...>
[end of file]
* * * * * * *
Helen Hegener
From the American Homeschool Association:
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
Excerpted from "The Guidance Manual for the Christian Home School: A
Parent's Guide to Preparing Home School Students for College and
Career," by Laurie Callihan (Career Press, 2000). For information
contact Laurie Callihan at (315) 409-0900; email:
windyhill@... http://www.davidandlaurie.com
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
The Homeschool Diploma
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
What is a diploma anyway? Here is a dictionary definition for you. . .
diploma: a document certifying the successful completion of a course
of study [Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University]
A diploma is a piece of paper (unless you use real sheepskin)
that designates or confers the completion of some line of study. We
find it interesting that parents who home school, and do so
confidently, turn to jelly when it is time to award a diploma. If
you have home schooled your child and they have completed your
designated course of study for high school, you may and should award
a diploma.
The issue is not whether you may award a diploma, but what does
that diploma mean to others? There are several considerations here.
In many states, including New York, the state mandates that only the
State Board of Education (in NY, the board of Regents) is authorized
to grant a diploma. That is their opinion. We do award our children
diplomas, and though the state may not recognize them as "accredited"
this does not mean much to us. After all, we know plenty of people
who hold those accredited diplomas who could not pass the
requirements to receive one of our diplomas!
Frankly, we both hold those accredited and coveted New York
Regent's High School Diplomas, and neither of us has had to show them
to anyone, ever. We have been hired by employers, accepted into
prestigious colleges (MIT and the Air Force Academy) and those
diplomas did not enter the picture. What did matter was our
transcript and college board exam scores. The official transcript is
the official record of the student's course work and grades. The
transcript will be validated by college board exams and sometimes
with a portfolio of completed work.
So, will a home school diploma allow our students to get jobs,
enter college, receive financial aid, or join the military? It is
true that in the past most colleges required those accredited pieces
of paper. However, the current climate is quickly changing in favor
of the home school. Colleges and universities are beginning to
recognize that home school students are generally very well prepared
for higher learning, regardless of their lack of "accredited"
education. There are now research studies that indicate the academic
success of home school programs, and the success of home school
students in institutions of higher learning.
In the past, some institutions required a GED or a
state-accredited diploma for admission. The United States House of
Representatives Committee on Education and the Workforce and Senate
Committee on Labor and Human Resources addressed these colleges and
universities in a report accompanying Pub.L. No. 105-244
(Reauthoriztion of the Higher Education Act) with the following
recommendation to those that accept federal funding: The Committee is
aware that many colleges and universities now require applicants from
non-public, private, or non-traditional secondary programs (including
home schools) to submit scores from additional standardized tests . .
. (GED or SAT-II) in lieu of a transcript/diploma from an accredited
high school . . . Given that standardized test scores (SAT and ACT)
and portfolio- or performance-based assessments may also provide a
sound basis for an admission decision regarding these students, the
Committee recommends that colleges and universities consider using
these assessments for applicants educated in non-public, private, and
non-traditional programs rather than requiring them to undergo
additional types of standardized testing. Requiring additional
testing only of students educated in these settings could reasonably
be seen as discriminatory . . .
The Committee believes that college admissions should be
determined on academic ability of the student and not the
accreditation status of the school in which he or she received a
secondary education.
Clearly, our Congress recognizes the discriminatory practice of
requiring home schooled students to obtain a GED. This practice has
unnerved many home schoolers since we find the GED requirements to be
an insult to the fine education our children have received.
In another section of the Amendments sited above, the Committees
changed the eligibility requirements for federal college financial
aid. The law used to require an accredited high school diploma, GED,
or a semester of college work to prove eligibility for aid. Now the
requirement has changed to include those students who have "completed
a secondary school education in a home school setting that is treated
as a home school or private school under state law."
These advances in the recognition of the effectiveness of home
schools are very promising. Already two states have enacted
legislation to restrict discrimination of home school students,
others are sure to follow. The military has also changed its
policies about requiring the GED for home schooled students.
Employers will accept a transcript, or they will accept a home
school diploma. The reality is, job applications will usually ask
what school was attended and whether the person graduated. The home
school student should just write in "home school" and say they did
graduate.
Lets face it, when we decided to home school, we believed we
were able to do a good job of educating our children. We believed
that we would do better than the government sponsored schools, and
better than private schools. (If you do not believe this, you have
no business home schooling!) Why would we not believe, then, that our
home school diploma is better than a government diploma?
Home school coalitions in some states (for instance
Pennsylvania) have worked with the state department of education to
provide a program for home schooled students to obtain a
state-accredited diploma. This may be of interest to you. To be
honest, we find these efforts counter-productive. We do not recognize
the state as the ultimate authority in determining what constitutes a
"good education." Therefore, we do not feel the state-accredited
diploma is of real value. The essence of home schooling is that it
is parent-directed. It follows than that it should be
parent-accredited. Colleges, universities, financial aid programs,
and potential employers are quickly realizing the value of the home
school diploma, and accreditation is becoming a non-issue.
So, where do you get this piece of paper? You print it
yourself, or order it from a printer. There, that was simple!
Actually, there are organizations that sell diplomas especially for
home school use, that you can personalize yourself for the graduate.
Some of these come with very nice covers as well.
Excerpted from "The Guidance Manual for the Christian Home School: A
Parent's Guide to Preparing Home School Students for College and
Career," by Laurie Callihan (Career Press, 2000). For information
contact Laurie Callihan at (315) 409-0900; email:
windyhill@... http://www.davidandlaurie.com
[end of file]
American Homeschool Association
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
Excerpted from "The Guidance Manual for the Christian Home School: A
Parent's Guide to Preparing Home School Students for College and
Career," by Laurie Callihan (Career Press, 2000). For information
contact Laurie Callihan at (315) 409-0900; email:
windyhill@... http://www.davidandlaurie.com
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
The Homeschool Diploma
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
What is a diploma anyway? Here is a dictionary definition for you. . .
diploma: a document certifying the successful completion of a course
of study [Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University]
A diploma is a piece of paper (unless you use real sheepskin)
that designates or confers the completion of some line of study. We
find it interesting that parents who home school, and do so
confidently, turn to jelly when it is time to award a diploma. If
you have home schooled your child and they have completed your
designated course of study for high school, you may and should award
a diploma.
The issue is not whether you may award a diploma, but what does
that diploma mean to others? There are several considerations here.
In many states, including New York, the state mandates that only the
State Board of Education (in NY, the board of Regents) is authorized
to grant a diploma. That is their opinion. We do award our children
diplomas, and though the state may not recognize them as "accredited"
this does not mean much to us. After all, we know plenty of people
who hold those accredited diplomas who could not pass the
requirements to receive one of our diplomas!
Frankly, we both hold those accredited and coveted New York
Regent's High School Diplomas, and neither of us has had to show them
to anyone, ever. We have been hired by employers, accepted into
prestigious colleges (MIT and the Air Force Academy) and those
diplomas did not enter the picture. What did matter was our
transcript and college board exam scores. The official transcript is
the official record of the student's course work and grades. The
transcript will be validated by college board exams and sometimes
with a portfolio of completed work.
So, will a home school diploma allow our students to get jobs,
enter college, receive financial aid, or join the military? It is
true that in the past most colleges required those accredited pieces
of paper. However, the current climate is quickly changing in favor
of the home school. Colleges and universities are beginning to
recognize that home school students are generally very well prepared
for higher learning, regardless of their lack of "accredited"
education. There are now research studies that indicate the academic
success of home school programs, and the success of home school
students in institutions of higher learning.
In the past, some institutions required a GED or a
state-accredited diploma for admission. The United States House of
Representatives Committee on Education and the Workforce and Senate
Committee on Labor and Human Resources addressed these colleges and
universities in a report accompanying Pub.L. No. 105-244
(Reauthoriztion of the Higher Education Act) with the following
recommendation to those that accept federal funding: The Committee is
aware that many colleges and universities now require applicants from
non-public, private, or non-traditional secondary programs (including
home schools) to submit scores from additional standardized tests . .
. (GED or SAT-II) in lieu of a transcript/diploma from an accredited
high school . . . Given that standardized test scores (SAT and ACT)
and portfolio- or performance-based assessments may also provide a
sound basis for an admission decision regarding these students, the
Committee recommends that colleges and universities consider using
these assessments for applicants educated in non-public, private, and
non-traditional programs rather than requiring them to undergo
additional types of standardized testing. Requiring additional
testing only of students educated in these settings could reasonably
be seen as discriminatory . . .
The Committee believes that college admissions should be
determined on academic ability of the student and not the
accreditation status of the school in which he or she received a
secondary education.
Clearly, our Congress recognizes the discriminatory practice of
requiring home schooled students to obtain a GED. This practice has
unnerved many home schoolers since we find the GED requirements to be
an insult to the fine education our children have received.
In another section of the Amendments sited above, the Committees
changed the eligibility requirements for federal college financial
aid. The law used to require an accredited high school diploma, GED,
or a semester of college work to prove eligibility for aid. Now the
requirement has changed to include those students who have "completed
a secondary school education in a home school setting that is treated
as a home school or private school under state law."
These advances in the recognition of the effectiveness of home
schools are very promising. Already two states have enacted
legislation to restrict discrimination of home school students,
others are sure to follow. The military has also changed its
policies about requiring the GED for home schooled students.
Employers will accept a transcript, or they will accept a home
school diploma. The reality is, job applications will usually ask
what school was attended and whether the person graduated. The home
school student should just write in "home school" and say they did
graduate.
Lets face it, when we decided to home school, we believed we
were able to do a good job of educating our children. We believed
that we would do better than the government sponsored schools, and
better than private schools. (If you do not believe this, you have
no business home schooling!) Why would we not believe, then, that our
home school diploma is better than a government diploma?
Home school coalitions in some states (for instance
Pennsylvania) have worked with the state department of education to
provide a program for home schooled students to obtain a
state-accredited diploma. This may be of interest to you. To be
honest, we find these efforts counter-productive. We do not recognize
the state as the ultimate authority in determining what constitutes a
"good education." Therefore, we do not feel the state-accredited
diploma is of real value. The essence of home schooling is that it
is parent-directed. It follows than that it should be
parent-accredited. Colleges, universities, financial aid programs,
and potential employers are quickly realizing the value of the home
school diploma, and accreditation is becoming a non-issue.
So, where do you get this piece of paper? You print it
yourself, or order it from a printer. There, that was simple!
Actually, there are organizations that sell diplomas especially for
home school use, that you can personalize yourself for the graduate.
Some of these come with very nice covers as well.
Excerpted from "The Guidance Manual for the Christian Home School: A
Parent's Guide to Preparing Home School Students for College and
Career," by Laurie Callihan (Career Press, 2000). For information
contact Laurie Callihan at (315) 409-0900; email:
windyhill@... http://www.davidandlaurie.com
[end of file]
American Homeschool Association
http://www.americanhomeschoolassociation.org
Renee Seawell
Thank you for your posts on this subject. They are really here at a wonderful time for me!
Blessings,
Renee in GA
__________________________________________________
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Blessings,
Renee in GA
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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springtimerobin75
In December my 16 yr old was having problems at school.
We all agreed that she would be better off home schooling, we decided
that we would take things slow and work on algebra, Spanish (which she
wanted to do) and some spelling. We have continued to talk about it
and then we ran across the unschool concept. My husband and I feel
that this is the best avenue for both of our children, yet we can not
get it through her head. All we here is I cant get my diploma that way-
on and on and on she goes. We have told her that she can still take
college courses all she has to do is continue to learn the things that
she is interested in and pass the examines that they would require her
to take in order to enroll in the courses she is interested in.She is
determined it seems. She wants to enroll in Education Direct.What do
we do, what do we say?
Thanks Joy
We all agreed that she would be better off home schooling, we decided
that we would take things slow and work on algebra, Spanish (which she
wanted to do) and some spelling. We have continued to talk about it
and then we ran across the unschool concept. My husband and I feel
that this is the best avenue for both of our children, yet we can not
get it through her head. All we here is I cant get my diploma that way-
on and on and on she goes. We have told her that she can still take
college courses all she has to do is continue to learn the things that
she is interested in and pass the examines that they would require her
to take in order to enroll in the courses she is interested in.She is
determined it seems. She wants to enroll in Education Direct.What do
we do, what do we say?
Thanks Joy
Heidi Crane
Well, start her out doing what she wants to do: taking courses and getting
grades. Education Direct is a two or three year course, and is a bit pricey.
Myself, I wouldn't spend that kind of money unless I and my kid were really
committed to doing the work and finishing it. (speaking from the experience
of having enrolled my oldest in a distance school, and then dropping it when
we realized how boring and lame that particular distance school managed to
make EVERY subject. CLASS blech. That little side-trail cost us almost $500)
So, anyway. Start her out doing it how she wants to do it. I think it would
run counter to Unschooling's principles to say "we ARE unschooling, like it
or not, young lady. No, you may not take classes. No, you may not earn
grades." LOL
Also, there's a book out there. A fiction piece, about an unschooling
family. Life with the???? I can't remember, but in the book, everyone is
this free spirit, artistic type, except one girl, who creates projects for
herself to do, such as discovering and labeling all the varieties of
butterfly in the nearby meadow, and writing a paper on the project, etc. She
does all kinds of schoolish things on her own. Her parents simply won't
assign things, so she takes it on herself. I can't think what on earth could
possibly be wrong with a kid pushing herself academically and jumping
herself through all the hoops. Some people thrive on that kind of thing.
Maybe she'll keep on desiring it strongly and pushing herself in every
subject "they" hand down, or maybe she'll find out that she can relax and do
the things that she is deeply interested in, not just to have a mark on a
paper, but for the love of it. And skip the rest.
blessings, HeidiC
grades. Education Direct is a two or three year course, and is a bit pricey.
Myself, I wouldn't spend that kind of money unless I and my kid were really
committed to doing the work and finishing it. (speaking from the experience
of having enrolled my oldest in a distance school, and then dropping it when
we realized how boring and lame that particular distance school managed to
make EVERY subject. CLASS blech. That little side-trail cost us almost $500)
So, anyway. Start her out doing it how she wants to do it. I think it would
run counter to Unschooling's principles to say "we ARE unschooling, like it
or not, young lady. No, you may not take classes. No, you may not earn
grades." LOL
Also, there's a book out there. A fiction piece, about an unschooling
family. Life with the???? I can't remember, but in the book, everyone is
this free spirit, artistic type, except one girl, who creates projects for
herself to do, such as discovering and labeling all the varieties of
butterfly in the nearby meadow, and writing a paper on the project, etc. She
does all kinds of schoolish things on her own. Her parents simply won't
assign things, so she takes it on herself. I can't think what on earth could
possibly be wrong with a kid pushing herself academically and jumping
herself through all the hoops. Some people thrive on that kind of thing.
Maybe she'll keep on desiring it strongly and pushing herself in every
subject "they" hand down, or maybe she'll find out that she can relax and do
the things that she is deeply interested in, not just to have a mark on a
paper, but for the love of it. And skip the rest.
blessings, HeidiC
>
>Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 01:40:34 -0000
> From: "springtimerobin75" <springtimerobin75@...>
>Subject: Diploma
>
>
>
>In December my 16 yr old was having problems at school.
>We all agreed that she would be better off home schooling, we decided
>that we would take things slow and work on algebra, Spanish (which she
>wanted to do) and some spelling. We have continued to talk about it
>and then we ran across the unschool concept. My husband and I feel
>that this is the best avenue for both of our children, yet we can not
>get it through her head. All we here is I cant get my diploma that way-
>on and on and on she goes. We have told her that she can still take
>college courses all she has to do is continue to learn the things that
>she is interested in and pass the examines that they would require her
>to take in order to enroll in the courses she is interested in.She is
>determined it seems. She wants to enroll in Education Direct.What do
>we do, what do we say?
>
>Thanks Joy
Lissa Peterson
on 4/19/05 10:51 AM, Heidi Crane at bunsofaluminum60@... wrote:
read it yet but have heard good things about it. If the book you're talking
about is a different one, I'd love to know that title as well! Thanks.
Quick re-intro/hello since I haven't posted here in a long time--I'm Lissa
in VA, mom of 4 kids ages 9, 6, 4, & 16 months. Dh and I are both writers,
home full time with the kids. Fun! :)
Lissa
http://www.melissawiley.com
> Also, there's a book out there. A fiction piece, about an unschoolingSurviving the Applewhites? Don't know if that's the one you mean--I haven't
> family. Life with the????
read it yet but have heard good things about it. If the book you're talking
about is a different one, I'd love to know that title as well! Thanks.
Quick re-intro/hello since I haven't posted here in a long time--I'm Lissa
in VA, mom of 4 kids ages 9, 6, 4, & 16 months. Dh and I are both writers,
home full time with the kids. Fun! :)
Lissa
http://www.melissawiley.com
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Heidi Crane <bunsofaluminum60@...>
I can't think what on earth could
possibly be wrong with a kid pushing herself academically and jumping
herself through all the hoops. Some people thrive on that kind of thing.
-=-=-=-=-
When we first decided to take Cameron out of school, Ben gave me _The
Well-Trained Mind_ as a Mother's Day present (for the new
homeschooling-mom-to-be).
I read it and was THRILLED! THAT was was *I* would have wanted to
do---well, that and ride horses and train dogs! <g>
I would have thrived on it, yes. But I knew it wasn't for my children.
They're smarter than I am! <G>
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
From: Heidi Crane <bunsofaluminum60@...>
I can't think what on earth could
possibly be wrong with a kid pushing herself academically and jumping
herself through all the hoops. Some people thrive on that kind of thing.
-=-=-=-=-
When we first decided to take Cameron out of school, Ben gave me _The
Well-Trained Mind_ as a Mother's Day present (for the new
homeschooling-mom-to-be).
I read it and was THRILLED! THAT was was *I* would have wanted to
do---well, that and ride horses and train dogs! <g>
I would have thrived on it, yes. But I knew it wasn't for my children.
They're smarter than I am! <G>
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
Rue Kream
>>A fiction piece, about an unschoolingfamily. Life with the????
**Was it Surviving the Applewhites?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0066236029/102-5859055-3479316
?v=glance ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joy guffey
Thats just it she may not finish it and she is so
worried about getting her High School Diploma.... Got
any suggestions on how to explain the diploma thing to
her better? She has plans of just supporting herself
enough to do full time ministry work (which working at
Mcdonalds..... is not going to be enough to support
herself and the other full time) and later be a
missionary or what our belief calls a special pioneer
in a foreign country. Maybe We are just all wrong in
our thinking.?????
Thanks Joy
--- Heidi Crane <bunsofaluminum60@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
worried about getting her High School Diploma.... Got
any suggestions on how to explain the diploma thing to
her better? She has plans of just supporting herself
enough to do full time ministry work (which working at
Mcdonalds..... is not going to be enough to support
herself and the other full time) and later be a
missionary or what our belief calls a special pioneer
in a foreign country. Maybe We are just all wrong in
our thinking.?????
Thanks Joy
--- Heidi Crane <bunsofaluminum60@...> wrote:
> Well, start her out doing what she wants to do:__________________________________
> taking courses and getting
> grades. Education Direct is a two or three year
> course, and is a bit pricey.
> Myself, I wouldn't spend that kind of money unless I
> and my kid were really
> committed to doing the work and finishing it.
> (speaking from the experience
> of having enrolled my oldest in a distance school,
> and then dropping it when
> we realized how boring and lame that particular
> distance school managed to
> make EVERY subject. CLASS blech. That little
> side-trail cost us almost $500)
>
> So, anyway. Start her out doing it how she wants to
> do it. I think it would
> run counter to Unschooling's principles to say "we
> ARE unschooling, like it
> or not, young lady. No, you may not take classes.
> No, you may not earn
> grades." LOL
>
> Also, there's a book out there. A fiction piece,
> about an unschooling
> family. Life with the???? I can't remember, but in
> the book, everyone is
> this free spirit, artistic type, except one girl,
> who creates projects for
> herself to do, such as discovering and labeling all
> the varieties of
> butterfly in the nearby meadow, and writing a paper
> on the project, etc. She
> does all kinds of schoolish things on her own. Her
> parents simply won't
> assign things, so she takes it on herself. I can't
> think what on earth could
> possibly be wrong with a kid pushing herself
> academically and jumping
> herself through all the hoops. Some people thrive on
> that kind of thing.
>
> Maybe she'll keep on desiring it strongly and
> pushing herself in every
> subject "they" hand down, or maybe she'll find out
> that she can relax and do
> the things that she is deeply interested in, not
> just to have a mark on a
> paper, but for the love of it. And skip the rest.
>
> blessings, HeidiC
>
>
> >
> >Message: 16
> > Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 01:40:34 -0000
> > From: "springtimerobin75"
> <springtimerobin75@...>
> >Subject: Diploma
> >
> >
> >
> >In December my 16 yr old was having problems at
> school.
> >We all agreed that she would be better off home
> schooling, we decided
> >that we would take things slow and work on algebra,
> Spanish (which she
> >wanted to do) and some spelling. We have continued
> to talk about it
> >and then we ran across the unschool concept. My
> husband and I feel
> >that this is the best avenue for both of our
> children, yet we can not
> >get it through her head. All we here is I cant get
> my diploma that way-
> >on and on and on she goes. We have told her that
> she can still take
> >college courses all she has to do is continue to
> learn the things that
> >she is interested in and pass the examines that
> they would require her
> >to take in order to enroll in the courses she is
> interested in.She is
> >determined it seems. She wants to enroll in
> Education Direct.What do
> >we do, what do we say?
> >
> >Thanks Joy
>
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/05 10:23:55 AM, springtimerobin75@... writes:
<<
Thats just it she may not finish it and she is so
worried about getting her High School Diploma.... Got
any suggestions on how to explain the diploma thing to
her better? >>
Tell her in many states a GED *is* a diploma, but also that many colleges
(maybe most) will take her without a GED, especially if she's taken some classes
at a jr. college or community college before applying to the bigger school,
and has done well in those classes.
Sandra
<<
Thats just it she may not finish it and she is so
worried about getting her High School Diploma.... Got
any suggestions on how to explain the diploma thing to
her better? >>
Tell her in many states a GED *is* a diploma, but also that many colleges
(maybe most) will take her without a GED, especially if she's taken some classes
at a jr. college or community college before applying to the bigger school,
and has done well in those classes.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/05 9:26:52 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< I can't think what on earth could
possibly be wrong with a kid pushing herself academically and jumping
herself through all the hoops. Some people thrive on that kind of thing.
it's possible that there could be instances in which nothing was wrong, I can
think of several things right off the bat that COULD "possibly" be wrong with a
kid pushing herself academically.
WHY is she doing it? Who is she trying to please, in case it's not just only
herself?
If she thinks that will make her happy, why does she think that? Is there a
fallback position if she doesn't cure cancer or colonize Mars? What if she's
"just a housewife" a few years up the road. Will she have a dearth of self
esteem, or so much debt she could've bought a big house and will then have to
live in an apartment?
I'll stop there and let readers continue the list in their own minds.
Sandra
<< I can't think what on earth could
possibly be wrong with a kid pushing herself academically and jumping
herself through all the hoops. Some people thrive on that kind of thing.
>>What could possibly be wrong wouldn't be wrong in every situation. While
it's possible that there could be instances in which nothing was wrong, I can
think of several things right off the bat that COULD "possibly" be wrong with a
kid pushing herself academically.
WHY is she doing it? Who is she trying to please, in case it's not just only
herself?
If she thinks that will make her happy, why does she think that? Is there a
fallback position if she doesn't cure cancer or colonize Mars? What if she's
"just a housewife" a few years up the road. Will she have a dearth of self
esteem, or so much debt she could've bought a big house and will then have to
live in an apartment?
I'll stop there and let readers continue the list in their own minds.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/2005 12:32:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tisell@... writes:
home full time with the kids. Fun! :)
Lissa
_http://www.melissawiley.com_ (http://www.melissawiley.com) <<<
Very cool website and blog. Will you be at the Live and Learn Conference?
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tisell@... writes:
>>Quick re-intro/hello since I haven't posted here in a long time--I'm Lissain VA, mom of 4 kids ages 9, 6, 4, & 16 months. Dh and I are both writers,
home full time with the kids. Fun! :)
Lissa
_http://www.melissawiley.com_ (http://www.melissawiley.com) <<<
Very cool website and blog. Will you be at the Live and Learn Conference?
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joy guffey
Thank You She has been so schooled its just stuck in
her head that it has to be that way yet she has made
it well know to us that she does not want to go back
to public school.her bio-mom drop out at 9th grade, so
before she moved in with my husband and I her mother
had her convinced that she would never do anything
with her life and would be a drop out( as she terms
it) like her (like her mom couldnt do anything else
for herself) my daughter does not have much confidence
in herself. We believe that unschooling can help her
in this way and others.
If she doesnt feel she will succeed with unschooling,
how does she plan to apply herself in a homeschool
program? As i said thanks Sandra.
Joy Guffey
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
her head that it has to be that way yet she has made
it well know to us that she does not want to go back
to public school.her bio-mom drop out at 9th grade, so
before she moved in with my husband and I her mother
had her convinced that she would never do anything
with her life and would be a drop out( as she terms
it) like her (like her mom couldnt do anything else
for herself) my daughter does not have much confidence
in herself. We believe that unschooling can help her
in this way and others.
If she doesnt feel she will succeed with unschooling,
how does she plan to apply herself in a homeschool
program? As i said thanks Sandra.
Joy Guffey
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>__________________________________
> In a message dated 4/19/05 10:23:55 AM,
> springtimerobin75@... writes:
>
> <<
> Thats just it she may not finish it and she is so
> worried about getting her High School Diploma....
> Got
> any suggestions on how to explain the diploma thing
> to
> her better? >>
>
> Tell her in many states a GED *is* a diploma, but
> also that many colleges
> (maybe most) will take her without a GED, especially
> if she's taken some classes
> at a jr. college or community college before
> applying to the bigger school,
> and has done well in those classes.
>
> Sandra
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
Lissa Peterson
on 4/19/05 2:38 PM, gailbrocop@... at gailbrocop@... wrote:
some ten years, since way back in the AOL days. It would be great fun to see
them in person. Along with everyone else... :)
Lissa
http://www.melissawiley.com
> Very cool website and blog.Thanks!
>Will you be at the Live and Learn Conference?Not sure yet...would love to go. I've been enjoying Sandra & Pam's posts for
some ten years, since way back in the AOL days. It would be great fun to see
them in person. Along with everyone else... :)
Lissa
http://www.melissawiley.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/2005 2:10:03 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
springtimerobin75@... writes:
-=-We believe that unschooling can help her
in this way and others.-=-
=========
Did she want to come home?
-=-If she doesnt feel she will succeed with unschooling,
how does she plan to apply herself in a homeschool
program?-=-
If she doesn't feel she can succeed, she probably won't. You should let her
get a diploma in the way she wants to, then.
Homeschooling against one's will just creates the same problem as having to
go to school against one's will.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
springtimerobin75@... writes:
-=-We believe that unschooling can help her
in this way and others.-=-
=========
Did she want to come home?
-=-If she doesnt feel she will succeed with unschooling,
how does she plan to apply herself in a homeschool
program?-=-
If she doesn't feel she can succeed, she probably won't. You should let her
get a diploma in the way she wants to, then.
Homeschooling against one's will just creates the same problem as having to
go to school against one's will.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi Crane
1) Yes! the book is titled "Surviving the Applewaites" and it's a terrific
book. I wrote to the author and got a note back!
2) my most driven friend, a highly accomplished person who sees the highest
goal and goes for it, every time, and with excellence, was horrified that my
kids might not be ready to take their SAT's if I unschooled instead of
schooled-at-home. I said "I never took an SAt test in my life. And I
attended the UofU." (heh. I also got my GED, but never a diploma) and I
still was accepted at the U. Klepped (sp?) out of English altogether, just
in the entrance exams. She was speechless.
The point being: colleges will accept students without SAT scores,
transcripts, or diplomas.
blessings, heidiC
book. I wrote to the author and got a note back!
2) my most driven friend, a highly accomplished person who sees the highest
goal and goes for it, every time, and with excellence, was horrified that my
kids might not be ready to take their SAT's if I unschooled instead of
schooled-at-home. I said "I never took an SAt test in my life. And I
attended the UofU." (heh. I also got my GED, but never a diploma) and I
still was accepted at the U. Klepped (sp?) out of English altogether, just
in the entrance exams. She was speechless.
The point being: colleges will accept students without SAT scores,
transcripts, or diplomas.
blessings, heidiC
><<
>Thats just it she may not finish it and she is so
>worried about getting her High School Diploma.... Got
>any suggestions on how to explain the diploma thing to
>her better? >>
>
>Tell her in many states a GED *is* a diploma, but also that many colleges
>(maybe most) will take her without a GED, especially if she's taken some
>classes
>at a jr. college or community college before applying to the bigger school,
>and has done well in those classes.
>
>Sandra
>
Elizabeth Hill
**
1) Yes! the book is titled "Surviving the Applewaites" and it's a terrific
book. I wrote to the author and got a note back! **
Overall, I liked this book, but I was somewhat miffed at her depiction of artistic unschooling parents so spacey that they would forget to buy groceries and would shelve their encyclopedia volumes randomly rather than alphabetically. I don't know anyone that spacey, personally.
Betsy
1) Yes! the book is titled "Surviving the Applewaites" and it's a terrific
book. I wrote to the author and got a note back! **
Overall, I liked this book, but I was somewhat miffed at her depiction of artistic unschooling parents so spacey that they would forget to buy groceries and would shelve their encyclopedia volumes randomly rather than alphabetically. I don't know anyone that spacey, personally.
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/2005 11:07:57 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
but I was somewhat miffed at her depiction of artistic unschooling parents
so spacey that they would forget to buy groceries and would shelve their
encyclopedia volumes randomly rather than alphabetically. I don't know anyone
that spacey, personally.
------------------------
Uh.... well....
You have met me.
I can easily forget to buy groceries, or forget all about the concept of
"dinner" until it's later than most humans eat. My encyclopedias are in
alphabetical order, and all my multi-volume collections are in order on the shelf,
but that doesn't save me from other frightful disorganizational sins.
When I was pregnant with Kirby and being angsty, I told a friend "I'm afraid
I'll forget to feed him." She laughed and said that would never happen. It
did. While he was nursing and I was carrying him around, that was easy.
And because we gave him food when he asked for it, he was pretty much
self-service boy. But for instance Holly has been playing Halo II a lot, and can be
in there for hours and she forgets to eat and I forget to offer her food some
days. A couple of times that has resulted in a cranky 13 year old girl, and
for those who have never yet been on the parental end of a 13 year old girl
and might someday, I will say this: FEED HER. For the good of all involved,
don't let her get hungry to the point of melt-down.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
but I was somewhat miffed at her depiction of artistic unschooling parents
so spacey that they would forget to buy groceries and would shelve their
encyclopedia volumes randomly rather than alphabetically. I don't know anyone
that spacey, personally.
------------------------
Uh.... well....
You have met me.
I can easily forget to buy groceries, or forget all about the concept of
"dinner" until it's later than most humans eat. My encyclopedias are in
alphabetical order, and all my multi-volume collections are in order on the shelf,
but that doesn't save me from other frightful disorganizational sins.
When I was pregnant with Kirby and being angsty, I told a friend "I'm afraid
I'll forget to feed him." She laughed and said that would never happen. It
did. While he was nursing and I was carrying him around, that was easy.
And because we gave him food when he asked for it, he was pretty much
self-service boy. But for instance Holly has been playing Halo II a lot, and can be
in there for hours and she forgets to eat and I forget to offer her food some
days. A couple of times that has resulted in a cranky 13 year old girl, and
for those who have never yet been on the parental end of a 13 year old girl
and might someday, I will say this: FEED HER. For the good of all involved,
don't let her get hungry to the point of melt-down.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On Apr 20, 2005, at 10:47 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
is worse when I also forget to offer food to my teenage girls. Whew!
They're learning to take the time to eat, even when absorbed in
something.
So am I.
And, Betsy, I had to laugh at your "miffed" post. Years ago I had Nancy
Wooten (hi Nancy) over at my house with her daughter, for a night or
two. I can't remember how old her daughter was - but I'm thinking maybe
11 or 12 - and she couldn't stand my disastrously disorganized
bookshelves - books stuffed in every which way - so she spent quite a
bit of time organizing them for me. I THINK she enjoyed it. (I don't
have a hardcopy encyclopedia - but my History of US set of books is all
out of order, I'm sure.)
-pam
> But for instance Holly has been playing Halo II a lot, and can beI have the same experience. I forget to eat - and I get cranky, too. It
> in there for hours and she forgets to eat and I forget to offer her
> food some
> days. A couple of times that has resulted in a cranky 13 year old
> girl, and
> for those who have never yet been on the parental end of a 13 year
> old girl
> and might someday, I will say this: FEED HER. For the good of all
> involved,
> don't let her get hungry to the point of melt-down.
is worse when I also forget to offer food to my teenage girls. Whew!
They're learning to take the time to eat, even when absorbed in
something.
So am I.
And, Betsy, I had to laugh at your "miffed" post. Years ago I had Nancy
Wooten (hi Nancy) over at my house with her daughter, for a night or
two. I can't remember how old her daughter was - but I'm thinking maybe
11 or 12 - and she couldn't stand my disastrously disorganized
bookshelves - books stuffed in every which way - so she spent quite a
bit of time organizing them for me. I THINK she enjoyed it. (I don't
have a hardcopy encyclopedia - but my History of US set of books is all
out of order, I'm sure.)
-pam