Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] More about family life (Tuck)
[email protected]
Tuck,
Whew, thanks for saying all of that.. I feel the same way. Now, let me ask,
how would you suggest that I go about encouraging my kids to want to help
without me having to ask? Think in terms of changing from an expected duty,
to an optional task.. any suggestions? It works in your family probably
because youve followed this approach since your kids were born.. What about
those of us who havent, who want to change?
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Whew, thanks for saying all of that.. I feel the same way. Now, let me ask,
how would you suggest that I go about encouraging my kids to want to help
without me having to ask? Think in terms of changing from an expected duty,
to an optional task.. any suggestions? It works in your family probably
because youve followed this approach since your kids were born.. What about
those of us who havent, who want to change?
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/9/2003 8:15:52 AM Central Standard Time, grlynbl@...
writes:
that women shouldn't be house slaves has been there all along. We worked it
out over the years by trying different things. Attitudes and expectations
had to change (mine, too). Ideas had to be expounded upon. Relationships
needed to be nurtured.
And readiness needed to be achieved. Naturally, little babies aren't going
to be able to help with housework, and I did it all for them, then. I was
single when my two eldest were little and did most of it myself then, too.
But, they *had* to go with me when I did laundry at the laundrymat. There
was no other way. It was just easier to enlist their help and get them into
the idea rather than struggle with divergent interests. Some days were
better than others.
I happen to have natural leadership skills, and that's part of it, too.
My 9 yo is living the life of Riley compared to my older kids'. (That's what
my adult kids will tell you, anyway. <g>) I had money when he was little, so
I even had a service come in once a week and clean. (That was only for a
year.) But to me, it's like learning to read. He lives in a literate house,
where books and letters and numbers are all around him. It's a daily
occurrence to read and be read to, and he has had a sense from an early age
that reading is interesting and important and something simply to be done.
He lives in a house where cleaning is the same. A good deal of time is spent
doing it. There are good reasons for doing it and sometimes it's even
interesting. It's simply something to be done. It makes life easier. If no
one has mowed the path around the lake, he might step on a snake when he goes
fishing. If he wants to stir his chocolate milk, he'd like to have a clean
spoon. Actions lead to consequences. It's part of that principle.
Cleaning and living in a clean house is just something I encouraged like
anything else. I tried not to get too upset about it (except when I was
expected to do it ALL when there were other perfectly capable people--dh--who
should do what they could). I give myself permission to do only what I'm
capable of, as well. I'd like to have all the dust off the furniture, but
I'm incapable of doing that and doing everything else I want to do as well.
I suppose it's a constant negotiation and realignment of priorities and
interacting with your family on the subject. It's no different than anything
else, IMO.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Now, let me ask,Well, no, we haven't been doing this since they were born, although the idea
> how would you suggest that I go about encouraging my kids to want to help
> without me having to ask? Think in terms of changing from an expected
> duty,
> to an optional task.. any suggestions? It works in your family probably
> because youve followed this approach since your kids were born.. What about
>
> those of us who havent, who want to change?
>
that women shouldn't be house slaves has been there all along. We worked it
out over the years by trying different things. Attitudes and expectations
had to change (mine, too). Ideas had to be expounded upon. Relationships
needed to be nurtured.
And readiness needed to be achieved. Naturally, little babies aren't going
to be able to help with housework, and I did it all for them, then. I was
single when my two eldest were little and did most of it myself then, too.
But, they *had* to go with me when I did laundry at the laundrymat. There
was no other way. It was just easier to enlist their help and get them into
the idea rather than struggle with divergent interests. Some days were
better than others.
I happen to have natural leadership skills, and that's part of it, too.
My 9 yo is living the life of Riley compared to my older kids'. (That's what
my adult kids will tell you, anyway. <g>) I had money when he was little, so
I even had a service come in once a week and clean. (That was only for a
year.) But to me, it's like learning to read. He lives in a literate house,
where books and letters and numbers are all around him. It's a daily
occurrence to read and be read to, and he has had a sense from an early age
that reading is interesting and important and something simply to be done.
He lives in a house where cleaning is the same. A good deal of time is spent
doing it. There are good reasons for doing it and sometimes it's even
interesting. It's simply something to be done. It makes life easier. If no
one has mowed the path around the lake, he might step on a snake when he goes
fishing. If he wants to stir his chocolate milk, he'd like to have a clean
spoon. Actions lead to consequences. It's part of that principle.
Cleaning and living in a clean house is just something I encouraged like
anything else. I tried not to get too upset about it (except when I was
expected to do it ALL when there were other perfectly capable people--dh--who
should do what they could). I give myself permission to do only what I'm
capable of, as well. I'd like to have all the dust off the furniture, but
I'm incapable of doing that and doing everything else I want to do as well.
I suppose it's a constant negotiation and realignment of priorities and
interacting with your family on the subject. It's no different than anything
else, IMO.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Teresa,
I'm not Tuck, hope you don't mind,
I think that if you just give it time and be patient, even older children will eventually come around. If it is not pushed on them or if they are not shamed or blamed.
Aren't you guys relatively new to living this unschooled type of life? It will take a while for them to see a new way. I know it is taking time here. I used to catch myself feeling such resentment when I cleaned and then it came out on them.
Since I have been trying to look at in different ways, like doing things for them or doing things that need to be done. It is slowly changing. We try and do things around here for each other and then it does seem to come back to us. When I'm gone my husband will try and do meals, pick up, or the kids will make a meal for me. But that wouldn't happen if I was constantly badgering them about it,
I keep telling my self, I must model and show the behavior, I must act, model, model, model, be considerate, thoughtful, joyful and they will be too!!
Patience,
Kelli
grlynbl@... wrote:Tuck,
Whew, thanks for saying all of that.. I feel the same way. Now, let me ask,
how would you suggest that I go about encouraging my kids to want to help
without me having to ask? Think in terms of changing from an expected duty,
to an optional task.. any suggestions? It works in your family probably
because youve followed this approach since your kids were born.. What about
those of us who havent, who want to change?
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm not Tuck, hope you don't mind,
I think that if you just give it time and be patient, even older children will eventually come around. If it is not pushed on them or if they are not shamed or blamed.
Aren't you guys relatively new to living this unschooled type of life? It will take a while for them to see a new way. I know it is taking time here. I used to catch myself feeling such resentment when I cleaned and then it came out on them.
Since I have been trying to look at in different ways, like doing things for them or doing things that need to be done. It is slowly changing. We try and do things around here for each other and then it does seem to come back to us. When I'm gone my husband will try and do meals, pick up, or the kids will make a meal for me. But that wouldn't happen if I was constantly badgering them about it,
I keep telling my self, I must model and show the behavior, I must act, model, model, model, be considerate, thoughtful, joyful and they will be too!!
Patience,
Kelli
grlynbl@... wrote:Tuck,
Whew, thanks for saying all of that.. I feel the same way. Now, let me ask,
how would you suggest that I go about encouraging my kids to want to help
without me having to ask? Think in terms of changing from an expected duty,
to an optional task.. any suggestions? It works in your family probably
because youve followed this approach since your kids were born.. What about
those of us who havent, who want to change?
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Also on this topic,
As I've said I'm reading _The Continuum Concept_, it talks in the first chapter about human nature and work. I have been drawing connections between kids not wanting to help out and what it talked about there.
Just giving them the opportunity to help, but not forcing and then us going about our work and what we do, they will come around. They will want to be part of it all.
It is a very interesting read.
Kelli
Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...> wrote:
Teresa,
I'm not Tuck, hope you don't mind,
I think that if you just give it time and be patient, even older children will eventually come around. If it is not pushed on them or if they are not shamed or blamed.
Aren't you guys relatively new to living this unschooled type of life? It will take a while for them to see a new way. I know it is taking time here. I used to catch myself feeling such resentment when I cleaned and then it came out on them.
Since I have been trying to look at in different ways, like doing things for them or doing things that need to be done. It is slowly changing. We try and do things around here for each other and then it does seem to come back to us. When I'm gone my husband will try and do meals, pick up, or the kids will make a meal for me. But that wouldn't happen if I was constantly badgering them about it,
I keep telling my self, I must model and show the behavior, I must act, model, model, model, be considerate, thoughtful, joyful and they will be too!!
Patience,
Kelli
grlynbl@... wrote:Tuck,
Whew, thanks for saying all of that.. I feel the same way. Now, let me ask,
how would you suggest that I go about encouraging my kids to want to help
without me having to ask? Think in terms of changing from an expected duty,
to an optional task.. any suggestions? It works in your family probably
because youve followed this approach since your kids were born.. What about
those of us who havent, who want to change?
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As I've said I'm reading _The Continuum Concept_, it talks in the first chapter about human nature and work. I have been drawing connections between kids not wanting to help out and what it talked about there.
Just giving them the opportunity to help, but not forcing and then us going about our work and what we do, they will come around. They will want to be part of it all.
It is a very interesting read.
Kelli
Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...> wrote:
Teresa,
I'm not Tuck, hope you don't mind,
I think that if you just give it time and be patient, even older children will eventually come around. If it is not pushed on them or if they are not shamed or blamed.
Aren't you guys relatively new to living this unschooled type of life? It will take a while for them to see a new way. I know it is taking time here. I used to catch myself feeling such resentment when I cleaned and then it came out on them.
Since I have been trying to look at in different ways, like doing things for them or doing things that need to be done. It is slowly changing. We try and do things around here for each other and then it does seem to come back to us. When I'm gone my husband will try and do meals, pick up, or the kids will make a meal for me. But that wouldn't happen if I was constantly badgering them about it,
I keep telling my self, I must model and show the behavior, I must act, model, model, model, be considerate, thoughtful, joyful and they will be too!!
Patience,
Kelli
grlynbl@... wrote:Tuck,
Whew, thanks for saying all of that.. I feel the same way. Now, let me ask,
how would you suggest that I go about encouraging my kids to want to help
without me having to ask? Think in terms of changing from an expected duty,
to an optional task.. any suggestions? It works in your family probably
because youve followed this approach since your kids were born.. What about
those of us who havent, who want to change?
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[email protected]
In a message dated 1/9/03 7:16:12 AM, grlynbl@... writes:
<< Think in terms of changing from an expected duty,
to an optional task.. any suggestions? >>
"Optional task" is still making it seem like work.
Cooking can be as interesting as drawing, unless either is made to be yucky
work.
Rearranging books can be as fun as any other sorting game.
This morning Holly and I had been playing Ishido, a sorting game on our old
computer that she had never seen before, but she found the code wheel for it
and asked. Right after that we were putting silverware in the dishwasher and
I said it was the same kind of sorting game. You can put two of one kind in
one slot, but only if one's facing up and one's facing down. She got it in a
second, though, and we were laughing about how the only "game over" or losing
is if when you're done there's still food because you didn't sort "right."
Sandra
<< Think in terms of changing from an expected duty,
to an optional task.. any suggestions? >>
"Optional task" is still making it seem like work.
Cooking can be as interesting as drawing, unless either is made to be yucky
work.
Rearranging books can be as fun as any other sorting game.
This morning Holly and I had been playing Ishido, a sorting game on our old
computer that she had never seen before, but she found the code wheel for it
and asked. Right after that we were putting silverware in the dishwasher and
I said it was the same kind of sorting game. You can put two of one kind in
one slot, but only if one's facing up and one's facing down. She got it in a
second, though, and we were laughing about how the only "game over" or losing
is if when you're done there's still food because you didn't sort "right."
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/9/03 12:02:32 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< I'm not Tuck, hope you don't mind, >>
Are we supposed to apologize for not being Tuck?
If she wanted to e-mail Tuck, she could have e-mailed.
She e-mailed the whole list.
I can't apologize for not being Tuck, but I did comment on the subject matter
because it was posted to a public forum.
Sandra
<< I'm not Tuck, hope you don't mind, >>
Are we supposed to apologize for not being Tuck?
If she wanted to e-mail Tuck, she could have e-mailed.
She e-mailed the whole list.
I can't apologize for not being Tuck, but I did comment on the subject matter
because it was posted to a public forum.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/9/03 12:28:10 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< As I've said I'm reading _The Continuum Concept_, it talks in the first
chapter about human nature and work. I have been drawing connections
between kids not wanting to help out and what it talked about there. >>
Lots of moms tell really young kids to get away, that they're not big enough
to help, that they're in the way. And then at some point they bring the kids
back and try to make them do work they haven't seen close-up.
According to The Continuum Concept, if the kids see what the adults are doing
as something desirable and satisfying, they will WANT to do it. And so if
the adults are whining and complaining about housework that's not a way to
make kids want to do any.
I don't mean being false as Tom Sawyer was with getting the fence
whitewashed. (Though it did seem those kids were having fun.) I mean the
parents having an attitude of gratitude and accomplishment about their
housework.
I'm always glad to have a dishwasher. I've only had it a Marty-age. Nearly
fourteen years.
I'm very happy to have an automatic washing machine and not to have to put
things on the clothes line if I don't want to. I grew up with a wringer
washer.
My attitude is a big shaper of my childrens' attitude toward work AND toward
me.
Sandra
<< As I've said I'm reading _The Continuum Concept_, it talks in the first
chapter about human nature and work. I have been drawing connections
between kids not wanting to help out and what it talked about there. >>
Lots of moms tell really young kids to get away, that they're not big enough
to help, that they're in the way. And then at some point they bring the kids
back and try to make them do work they haven't seen close-up.
According to The Continuum Concept, if the kids see what the adults are doing
as something desirable and satisfying, they will WANT to do it. And so if
the adults are whining and complaining about housework that's not a way to
make kids want to do any.
I don't mean being false as Tom Sawyer was with getting the fence
whitewashed. (Though it did seem those kids were having fun.) I mean the
parents having an attitude of gratitude and accomplishment about their
housework.
I'm always glad to have a dishwasher. I've only had it a Marty-age. Nearly
fourteen years.
I'm very happy to have an automatic washing machine and not to have to put
things on the clothes line if I don't want to. I grew up with a wringer
washer.
My attitude is a big shaper of my childrens' attitude toward work AND toward
me.
Sandra
Kelli Traaseth
SandraDodd@... wrote:
**Are we supposed to apologize for not being Tuck?
If she wanted to e-mail Tuck, she could have e-mailed.
She e-mailed the whole list.
I can't apologize for not being Tuck, but I did comment on the subject matter
because it was posted to a public forum.**
What?
Kelli
In a message dated 1/9/03 12:02:32 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< I'm not Tuck, hope you don't mind, >>
Are we supposed to apologize for not being Tuck?
If she wanted to e-mail Tuck, she could have e-mailed.
She e-mailed the whole list.
I can't apologize for not being Tuck, but I did comment on the subject matter
because it was posted to a public forum.
Sandra
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
**Are we supposed to apologize for not being Tuck?
If she wanted to e-mail Tuck, she could have e-mailed.
She e-mailed the whole list.
I can't apologize for not being Tuck, but I did comment on the subject matter
because it was posted to a public forum.**
What?
Kelli
In a message dated 1/9/03 12:02:32 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< I'm not Tuck, hope you don't mind, >>
Are we supposed to apologize for not being Tuck?
If she wanted to e-mail Tuck, she could have e-mailed.
She e-mailed the whole list.
I can't apologize for not being Tuck, but I did comment on the subject matter
because it was posted to a public forum.
Sandra
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/9/03 2:19:04 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< What? >>
<<Are we supposed to apologize for not being Tuck?>>
You had written
"I'm not Tuck, hope you don't mind,"
And I had already responded to that same post but had not, myself, apologized
for not having been Tuck.
(Too much answer for a one-word question; sorry.)
Sandra
<< What? >>
<<Are we supposed to apologize for not being Tuck?>>
You had written
"I'm not Tuck, hope you don't mind,"
And I had already responded to that same post but had not, myself, apologized
for not having been Tuck.
(Too much answer for a one-word question; sorry.)
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/9/2003 2:41:06 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Although I will take cash in lieu of apologies.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> <<I'm not Tuck, hope you don't mind, >>YES!
>
> Are we supposed to apologize for not being Tuck?
>
Although I will take cash in lieu of apologies.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]