letting go of limits
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/03 11:30:21 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< He played it nonstop for a few days, but I can tell the novelty and the
magical hold that game had over my son is wearing off and he's already
moving on to some other non-violent games. I think he's going to be alright
and that there's no permanent damage caused by him playing GTA3. I think
more damage was being caused by us not letting him play it. >>
Oh ugh. I would have a really, really hard time with that one.
I don't know if I could have done what you did....anyone else? That was the
ultimate test of trust......you passed with flying colors!
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected] writes:
<< He played it nonstop for a few days, but I can tell the novelty and the
magical hold that game had over my son is wearing off and he's already
moving on to some other non-violent games. I think he's going to be alright
and that there's no permanent damage caused by him playing GTA3. I think
more damage was being caused by us not letting him play it. >>
Oh ugh. I would have a really, really hard time with that one.
I don't know if I could have done what you did....anyone else? That was the
ultimate test of trust......you passed with flying colors!
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/03 12:37:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
about it. 48 hours or 60 mins or something. about underage kids buying mature
content games.. Kids are supposed to be 16 to buy them, but a 10 year old got
by with buying GTA in several stores. They didnt even check for ID. My kids
watched the show and they thought that the game looked too "scary" and full
of "bad guys" ( their words) They got a little worrisome over any game
that is labled "teen' ( well, my 7 yo did) I think he was afraid if he
played a teen game.. some "bad guy" might be in it hitting people and
generally being mean. I explained that not all "teen" games ( well,
acutally, GTA is "mature") have that stuff in them, he can try to play and
if the doesnt like the game. then just don't play it. Our video game
systems are new.. so, we dont have a lot of games and the kids arent familar
with a lot of games.. I bought Buffy for Landon ( hes her #1fan..lol) and
its coming in the mail soon. They are all looking forward to playing that..
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> Oh ugh. I would have a really, really hard time with that one.My boys havent asked for it ( fingers crossed) We did see a special on TV
> I don't know if I could have done what you did....anyone else? That was the
>
> ultimate test of trust......you passed with flying colors!
>
> Ren
>
about it. 48 hours or 60 mins or something. about underage kids buying mature
content games.. Kids are supposed to be 16 to buy them, but a 10 year old got
by with buying GTA in several stores. They didnt even check for ID. My kids
watched the show and they thought that the game looked too "scary" and full
of "bad guys" ( their words) They got a little worrisome over any game
that is labled "teen' ( well, my 7 yo did) I think he was afraid if he
played a teen game.. some "bad guy" might be in it hitting people and
generally being mean. I explained that not all "teen" games ( well,
acutally, GTA is "mature") have that stuff in them, he can try to play and
if the doesnt like the game. then just don't play it. Our video game
systems are new.. so, we dont have a lot of games and the kids arent familar
with a lot of games.. I bought Buffy for Landon ( hes her #1fan..lol) and
its coming in the mail soon. They are all looking forward to playing that..
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
Well, we've just starting to experiment with "no restrictions" here and it is working pretty well.
I think its true that if we don't make it "forbidden fruit" they won't look at it as something to "use", except as a genuine interest.
And really....if we are raising our kids in peaceful respectful homes, I don't think violence will have all that much appeal beyond the initial novelty.
Kristen
I think its true that if we don't make it "forbidden fruit" they won't look at it as something to "use", except as a genuine interest.
And really....if we are raising our kids in peaceful respectful homes, I don't think violence will have all that much appeal beyond the initial novelty.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: starsuncloud@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 12:35 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] letting go of limits
In a message dated 1/7/03 11:30:21 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< He played it nonstop for a few days, but I can tell the novelty and the
magical hold that game had over my son is wearing off and he's already
moving on to some other non-violent games. I think he's going to be alright
and that there's no permanent damage caused by him playing GTA3. I think
more damage was being caused by us not letting him play it. >>
Oh ugh. I would have a really, really hard time with that one.
I don't know if I could have done what you did....anyone else? That was the
ultimate test of trust......you passed with flying colors!
Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karin
> As for lyrics and movies, I think a child who has a choice will be moreWe recently changed our minds about allowing our boys (11 and 9 yo) to own
> selective. He won't watch/listen to something out of defiance, but out of
> real curiosity or desire.
>
> ~Kelly
and play Grand Theft Auto 3 for PS2.
When I first saw the game, I was shocked at the content - stealing cars left
and right, beating people up, picking up hookers and stealing their money,
etc... I didn't want MY precious sons exposed to that kind of stuff! I
thought surely it will affect them somehow, in a negative way.
But, for some reason, my older son continued to want the game for about 6
months now. He talked about how it isn't fair that he can't play it, he
knows other littler kids who can play it, he knows all that stuff is wrong
and would never do it in real life, it's JUST a game. He didn't understand
why we wouldn't let him play the game.
I realized that this game was becoming an obsession of his and clearly WE
were standing in the way between him and this game. I told my dh that he
won't rest or give up until he has that game. One day my dh took the kids to
the game store and when they came back, my son was the proud owner of a used
copy of GTA3. We gave in to what he wanted and allowed him to have the game.
He played it nonstop for a few days, but I can tell the novelty and the
magical hold that game had over my son is wearing off and he's already
moving on to some other non-violent games. I think he's going to be alright
and that there's no permanent damage caused by him playing GTA3. I think
more damage was being caused by us not letting him play it.
Karin
Mary Bianco
>From: starsuncloud@...<<Oh ugh. I would have a really, really hard time with that one.
I don't know if I could have done what you did....anyone else? That was the
ultimate test of trust......you passed with flying colors!>>
Our oldest daugher actually was the first one to tell us about that game. My
husband thought it was hysterical and it didn't take long for him to bring
one home. Just a rental though. I play no games whatsoever on the tv or
computer. My husband loves his playstation. Like one big giant kid who never
had the opportunity to play one! Our 8 year old son likes his gameboy and
computer games and some on the playstation. Mostly he likes games where you
have to shoot someone. I must admit that he's accurate as shit!! Kind of
scary I guess to some! About 2 years ago him and my husband played one game
I think about a hitman. My son ended up beating the game twice before my
husband did! After he wins he loses interest and moves on. Our 7 year old
daugher likes the sporting games best and loves to wrestle on the
playstation with her dad. She loves racing and soccer and stuff too.
When my husband brough home the one with the stealing cars and hookers, the
kids just watched. They think it's funny. So far, no one but my husband and
oldest daughter has played. Our son especially loves to watch other people
play more than he actually plays himself.
Mary B
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pumpkin_kisses_fall_wishes <djac99_1999@
I understand the concept of removing the appeal of "forbidden fruit",
but I wonder what message, as a mother, to condone the vicarious rape,
pillage, and murders of imaginary humans.
but I wonder what message, as a mother, to condone the vicarious rape,
pillage, and murders of imaginary humans.
Shyrley
Karin wrote:
by a copy as we've rented it several times from Blockbuster
Sure, its a bit gruesome but no more than most games and we all know it isn't real. I've played it myself a few times and I'm really hopeless at driving the car and was cross that the man couldn't
create mayhem on a bicycle. (being as I am a bike fanatic).
I censor nothing and never have done. Mostly the kids censor themsleves in that, if actorts start kissing and wotnot, they all hide their eyes and ask me to tell them when its over. My middle child
dislikes swearing on films which is bizarre cos I swear like a trooper and always have done.
If a film is scary I will often tell them in advance and quite often they will choose not to watch. The eldest wont watch anything with vampires or sharks in it.
We watched The Full Monty the other day and while they found it funny, they were all grossed out by the fact that in real life, women pay to see men strip :-)
My daughter wanted to know why....
Shyrley
> > As for lyrics and movies, I think a child who has a choice will be moreA lot of people I know here in VA are appalled that I let my kids play GTA3. They are 10, 9 and 7 and it is easily their favourite game. So favourite in fact that they are saving up their own money to
> > selective. He won't watch/listen to something out of defiance, but out of
> > real curiosity or desire.
> >
> > ~Kelly
>
> We recently changed our minds about allowing our boys (11 and 9 yo) to own
> and play Grand Theft Auto 3 for PS2.
> When I first saw the game, I was shocked at the content - stealing cars left
> and right, beating people up, picking up hookers and stealing their money,
> etc... I didn't want MY precious sons exposed to that kind of stuff! I
> thought surely it will affect them somehow, in a negative way.
>
> But, for some reason, my older son continued to want the game for about 6
> months now. He talked about how it isn't fair that he can't play it, he
> knows other littler kids who can play it, he knows all that stuff is wrong
> and would never do it in real life, it's JUST a game. He didn't understand
> why we wouldn't let him play the game.
>
> I realized that this game was becoming an obsession of his and clearly WE
> were standing in the way between him and this game. I told my dh that he
> won't rest or give up until he has that game. One day my dh took the kids to
> the game store and when they came back, my son was the proud owner of a used
> copy of GTA3. We gave in to what he wanted and allowed him to have the game.
>
> He played it nonstop for a few days, but I can tell the novelty and the
> magical hold that game had over my son is wearing off and he's already
> moving on to some other non-violent games. I think he's going to be alright
> and that there's no permanent damage caused by him playing GTA3. I think
> more damage was being caused by us not letting him play it.
>
> Karin
>
by a copy as we've rented it several times from Blockbuster
Sure, its a bit gruesome but no more than most games and we all know it isn't real. I've played it myself a few times and I'm really hopeless at driving the car and was cross that the man couldn't
create mayhem on a bicycle. (being as I am a bike fanatic).
I censor nothing and never have done. Mostly the kids censor themsleves in that, if actorts start kissing and wotnot, they all hide their eyes and ask me to tell them when its over. My middle child
dislikes swearing on films which is bizarre cos I swear like a trooper and always have done.
If a film is scary I will often tell them in advance and quite often they will choose not to watch. The eldest wont watch anything with vampires or sharks in it.
We watched The Full Monty the other day and while they found it funny, they were all grossed out by the fact that in real life, women pay to see men strip :-)
My daughter wanted to know why....
Shyrley
pumpkin_kisses_fall_wishes <djac99_1999@
> I censor nothing and never have done. Mostly the kids censorthemsleves in that, if actorts start kissing and wotnot, they all hide
their eyes and ask me to tell them when its over. My middle child
> dislikes swearing on films which is bizarre cos I swear like atrooper and always have done.
> If a film is scary I will often tell them in advance and quite oftenthey will choose not to watch. The eldest wont watch anything with
vampires or sharks in it.
If they feel the need to self-censor swearing and "kissing and
whatnot", what is the attraction of a game like Grand Theft Auto when
other "cleaner" games of this type are available?
Denise
Karin
>Oh, I did have a really, really hard time with this!
> Oh ugh. I would have a really, really hard time with that one.
> I don't know if I could have done what you did....anyone else?I still can't believe I did what I did. <g>
> That was the ultimate test of trust......you passed with flying colors!We'll see..... :-)
>
> Ren
Karin
Shyrley
"pumpkin_kisses_fall_wishes " wrote:
The women pedestrians often walk around in bikini's (don't they get cold?) but there's no sex.
As all the people are pixel people they aren't even all that accurate.
The attraction is really steering your car through the city streets, stealing motorcycles and police cars to carry out your missions. At one point you even get a helicopter. It's a fun game.
I imagine that people who oppose it have never actually sat down and watched it.
As for kissing. When its films and its real people my kids think its yucky. Especially as they know there's camera men and stuff standing around filming. My daughter is a bit of a prude when it comes to
sex.
Shyrley
> > I censor nothing and never have done. Mostly the kids censorI've never seen anyone kissing in GTA. The game involves driving around doing the missions. This can involve running people over and shoot outs with the cops.
> themsleves in that, if actorts start kissing and wotnot, they all hide
> their eyes and ask me to tell them when its over. My middle child
> > dislikes swearing on films which is bizarre cos I swear like a
> trooper and always have done.
> > If a film is scary I will often tell them in advance and quite often
> they will choose not to watch. The eldest wont watch anything with
> vampires or sharks in it.
>
> If they feel the need to self-censor swearing and "kissing and
> whatnot", what is the attraction of a game like Grand Theft Auto when
> other "cleaner" games of this type are available?
>
> Denise
>
The women pedestrians often walk around in bikini's (don't they get cold?) but there's no sex.
As all the people are pixel people they aren't even all that accurate.
The attraction is really steering your car through the city streets, stealing motorcycles and police cars to carry out your missions. At one point you even get a helicopter. It's a fun game.
I imagine that people who oppose it have never actually sat down and watched it.
As for kissing. When its films and its real people my kids think its yucky. Especially as they know there's camera men and stuff standing around filming. My daughter is a bit of a prude when it comes to
sex.
Shyrley
pumpkin_kisses_fall_wishes <djac99_1999@
My point wasn't that kissing and sex exist in GTA, but that there are
alternatives to games which promote gratitous sex and violence.
Denise
alternatives to games which promote gratitous sex and violence.
Denise
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/03 9:44:20 AM, curtkar@... writes:
<< I think he's going to be alright
and that there's no permanent damage caused by him playing GTA3. I think
more damage was being caused by us not letting him play it.
being out at someone else's house when he got an emergency call to go to
work. And it's kind of like letting someone play GTA3, in a weird way. <g>
Kirby wasn't in his bed when I went to check and neither his dad nor I knew
he was going to sleep elsewhere, but he's 16 and we trust him. AND... when
his dad went to sleep (I was first asleep, which is rare) he had been sitting
at the dining room table playing Apples to Apples with his sister (11) and a
teenaged girl (19?) named Katrina. Holly says they played for three hours.
A kid who will play a game with his sister because she's really been wanting
to, and play until after 11:00 when he has a teenaged girl in the room with
him is REALLY proving to be a mature and trustworthy human being.
And he didn't whine and try to get out of it when he found he would need to
go to work on a day off.
So if in the midst of THAT kind of living I had whined or complained about
him being somewhere else where I could find him with a single phone call,
what kind of brat would *I* be being?
And that is part of the gradual progression of his whole attachment parenting
life.
My boys don't have that video game with the car theft, but they've both
played it elsewhere. For his birthday, Marty is getting Hunter: the
Reckoning. I think it's about killing vampires. He'll be fourteen.
Sandra
<< I think he's going to be alright
and that there's no permanent damage caused by him playing GTA3. I think
more damage was being caused by us not letting him play it.
>>This reminded me that I didn't give an important detail in the tale of Kirby
being out at someone else's house when he got an emergency call to go to
work. And it's kind of like letting someone play GTA3, in a weird way. <g>
Kirby wasn't in his bed when I went to check and neither his dad nor I knew
he was going to sleep elsewhere, but he's 16 and we trust him. AND... when
his dad went to sleep (I was first asleep, which is rare) he had been sitting
at the dining room table playing Apples to Apples with his sister (11) and a
teenaged girl (19?) named Katrina. Holly says they played for three hours.
A kid who will play a game with his sister because she's really been wanting
to, and play until after 11:00 when he has a teenaged girl in the room with
him is REALLY proving to be a mature and trustworthy human being.
And he didn't whine and try to get out of it when he found he would need to
go to work on a day off.
So if in the midst of THAT kind of living I had whined or complained about
him being somewhere else where I could find him with a single phone call,
what kind of brat would *I* be being?
And that is part of the gradual progression of his whole attachment parenting
life.
My boys don't have that video game with the car theft, but they've both
played it elsewhere. For his birthday, Marty is getting Hunter: the
Reckoning. I think it's about killing vampires. He'll be fourteen.
Sandra
Tia Leschke
> My point wasn't that kissing and sex exist in GTA, but that there areAnd if they want those games, they'll choose them.
> alternatives to games which promote gratitous sex and violence.
Tia
[email protected]
For those new to this list (and there are several this week! cool!)
articles on video games are being collected here:
http://sandradodd.com/games/page
and a teenaged girl has just started a website yesterday or the day before.
I haven't linked it yet, but she's got a good start and I will link it soon.
http://geocities.com/undyingtruth
These will make you feel better about video games.
Sandra
articles on video games are being collected here:
http://sandradodd.com/games/page
and a teenaged girl has just started a website yesterday or the day before.
I haven't linked it yet, but she's got a good start and I will link it soon.
http://geocities.com/undyingtruth
These will make you feel better about video games.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/03 12:03:32 PM, djac99_1999@... writes:
<< I understand the concept of removing the appeal of "forbidden fruit",
but I wonder what message, as a mother, to condone the vicarious rape,
pillage, and murders of imaginary humans.
But if you let your children have exposure to Red Riding Hood, are you
condoning sending children out into dark medieval forests? Are you condoning
wolves who lie? Woodcutters who blast into people's houses and cut
endangered species' open to save grandmothers without EPA approval?
CAN an imaginary person be murdered?
Sandra
<< I understand the concept of removing the appeal of "forbidden fruit",
but I wonder what message, as a mother, to condone the vicarious rape,
pillage, and murders of imaginary humans.
>>I understand your concern.
But if you let your children have exposure to Red Riding Hood, are you
condoning sending children out into dark medieval forests? Are you condoning
wolves who lie? Woodcutters who blast into people's houses and cut
endangered species' open to save grandmothers without EPA approval?
CAN an imaginary person be murdered?
Sandra
Karin
<djac99_1999@...> wrote:
violence.
I feel that I'm allowing my son to play a game that he really wants to and
honoring his wishes, even though I don't agree with it.
I don't feel that he is doing any real harm to anyone, or that he would ever
do any of the things in GTA3.
Believe me, we've had many conversations about right and wrong, specifically
relating to this game!
It's a very confusing scenario to be in when your kids really, really want
something that you don't agree with.
Their want doesn't go away in time if you try and ignore the problem, or
just 'put your foot down' as the parent.
In fact, putting your foot down just makes them want it more. Then it
becomes a power struggle between you and your kid.
There are other violent games that my kids have been playing for years that
could be considered as condoning violence.
Games like Warcraft, Age of Empires, heck, I was even having a problem with
my kids playing Deer Hunter because I am a vegetarian and don't like the
idea of killing animals, even in a computer game!
I have relied on my gut feeling to get me through many parenting decisions
since my kids were born.
Things like vaccinating or not, alternative medicine, homeschooling,
unschooling, and the unschooling lifestyle.
I came to this decision of letting my son play GTA3 because my gut feeling
was telling me that in "our" case, my son would be okay if we let him play
this game. Everybody must make their own specific decisions on letting go of
limits and just how far you will go with it. For example, I have definite
limits (still) on letting my kids watch many rated R movies and in general,
viewing sexually explicit scenes or material. That's probably more to do
with how I was raised than anything else, more to do with my own hangups. I
suspect that as the kids get older, though, we'll be letting go of limits on
rated R movies and other things we still have limits on. Parenting sure is
hard sometimes!
Karin
> I understand the concept of removing the appeal of "forbidden fruit",In my case, I don't consider myself as condoning those specific acts of
> but I wonder what message, as a mother, to condone the vicarious rape,
> pillage, and murders of imaginary humans.
violence.
I feel that I'm allowing my son to play a game that he really wants to and
honoring his wishes, even though I don't agree with it.
I don't feel that he is doing any real harm to anyone, or that he would ever
do any of the things in GTA3.
Believe me, we've had many conversations about right and wrong, specifically
relating to this game!
It's a very confusing scenario to be in when your kids really, really want
something that you don't agree with.
Their want doesn't go away in time if you try and ignore the problem, or
just 'put your foot down' as the parent.
In fact, putting your foot down just makes them want it more. Then it
becomes a power struggle between you and your kid.
There are other violent games that my kids have been playing for years that
could be considered as condoning violence.
Games like Warcraft, Age of Empires, heck, I was even having a problem with
my kids playing Deer Hunter because I am a vegetarian and don't like the
idea of killing animals, even in a computer game!
I have relied on my gut feeling to get me through many parenting decisions
since my kids were born.
Things like vaccinating or not, alternative medicine, homeschooling,
unschooling, and the unschooling lifestyle.
I came to this decision of letting my son play GTA3 because my gut feeling
was telling me that in "our" case, my son would be okay if we let him play
this game. Everybody must make their own specific decisions on letting go of
limits and just how far you will go with it. For example, I have definite
limits (still) on letting my kids watch many rated R movies and in general,
viewing sexually explicit scenes or material. That's probably more to do
with how I was raised than anything else, more to do with my own hangups. I
suspect that as the kids get older, though, we'll be letting go of limits on
rated R movies and other things we still have limits on. Parenting sure is
hard sometimes!
Karin
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/03 12:39:45 PM, curtkar@... writes:
<< I feel that I'm allowing my son to play a game that he really wants to and
honoring his wishes, even though I don't agree with it.
I don't feel that he is doing any real harm to anyone, or that he would ever
do any of the things in GTA3. >>
It is an interesting question. If little imaginary people made of light are
shot or have their cars stolen, and so out of respect for their right to live
their computer programmed lives in pixel-peace we keep a real living member
of our family from doing something real that he really wants to do, aren't
*WE* the ones who aren't distinguishing between fantasy and reality?
ONE of those people has feelings and it's your child. NONE of the people on
the game have feelings.
Sandra
<< I feel that I'm allowing my son to play a game that he really wants to and
honoring his wishes, even though I don't agree with it.
I don't feel that he is doing any real harm to anyone, or that he would ever
do any of the things in GTA3. >>
It is an interesting question. If little imaginary people made of light are
shot or have their cars stolen, and so out of respect for their right to live
their computer programmed lives in pixel-peace we keep a real living member
of our family from doing something real that he really wants to do, aren't
*WE* the ones who aren't distinguishing between fantasy and reality?
ONE of those people has feelings and it's your child. NONE of the people on
the game have feelings.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/03 2:45:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
shyrley.williams@... writes:
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shyrley.williams@... writes:
> We watched The Full Monty the other day and while they found it funny, theyAnother favorite movie of ours.. Uhh, is it obvious that we love movies? LOL
> were all grossed out by the fact that in real life, women pay to see men
> strip :-)
> My daughter wanted to know why....
>
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/2003 2:45:14 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
And you had a stand-in in his room to tell you where he was! When Jon's not
home when I get up in the morning, I have to call his cell phone and find out
where he is. I usually know where, but I feel better knowing for sure.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> A kid who will play a game with his sister because she's really been wantingAin't THAT the truth?
>
> to, and play until after 11:00 when he has a teenaged girl in the room with
>
> him is REALLY proving to be a mature and trustworthy human being.
>
And you had a stand-in in his room to tell you where he was! When Jon's not
home when I get up in the morning, I have to call his cell phone and find out
where he is. I usually know where, but I feel better knowing for sure.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karin
> My point wasn't that kissing and sex exist in GTA, but that there are....but for some reason aren't as desirable as GTA3. I know my son would not
> alternatives to games which promote gratitous sex and violence.
>
> Denise
accept any substitution for the game he wanted. In fact, he does have a
some silimar games (Midtown Madness, Twisted Metal II and Crazy Taxi) that
ARE similar and not as violent. He played those before he got GTA3, but it
wasn't good enough. He wanted THAT game. Now that he has it, it's not a big
deal anymore, for any of us.
Karin
pumpkin_kisses_fall_wishes <djac99_1999@
> *WE* the ones who aren't distinguishing between fantasy and reality?people on
>
> ONE of those people has feelings and it's your child. NONE of the
> the game have feelings.These games are, of course, fantasy. However, does honoring a child's
>
> Sandra
feelings rule out discussing the parent's values with said child? I
wonder what a child is missing in his life that he would enjoy
pretending to pick up hookers or steal cars.
pumpkin_kisses_fall_wishes <djac99_1999@
Great points.. However, most tales like Little Red Riding Hood have a
good vs. evil theme whereupon the villians are clearly punished.
Additionally, my 4yo dd clearly understands that wolves don't talk,
but doesn't understand, without adult explanation, why real humans
hurt other real humans. Imaginary humans are representations of real
humans.
good vs. evil theme whereupon the villians are clearly punished.
Additionally, my 4yo dd clearly understands that wolves don't talk,
but doesn't understand, without adult explanation, why real humans
hurt other real humans. Imaginary humans are representations of real
humans.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/03 3:56:52 PM, djac99_1999@... writes:
<< I wonder what a child is missing in his life that he would enjoy
pretending to pick up hookers or steal cars.>>
Maybe just missing parental trust and respect.
If he says "I would like to play this" and you say "No, not under any
circumstances," he will keep thinking about that forbidden thing. And if
your reasons have to do with questioning whether it will make him become like
the characters, he might not think you're being truly realistic and
thoughtful.
Do you keep murder mysteries out of your house lest he become a murderer? Do
you keep newspapers and TV news out of the house? (I kinda do, but that's
personal preference.) Do you ever watch action movies where people have to
defuse the bomb and have only ten seconds left? Does it make you want to
learn to make bombs, or carry guns around?
My kids don't have that game. They never played the Doom. They do have a
James Bond game for Nintendo something-or-other (64). And they're nice guys
who help younger children do things they can't do. They don't own guns.
Marty got toy cowboy guns for Christmas, for doing tricks and wearing for a
cowboy-theme RPG he does. Kirby has been able to take driver's ed for a year
and a half, but he keeps saying "Next session, I'm not in a hurry" because he
has friends to drive him around, and his karate and work schedule will make
it hard to take driver's ed. So he's not in a hurry to drive around, even,
but he has played games that were simulated driving games and he's sixteen.
I have not seen the things my kids read and do change their desires or
behaviors in any bad ways. I have seen what other families do affect their
kids, when they limit and restrict, and the tension builds up until the kids
are out like a shot, or they come to my house (or wherever) and are in a
FRENZY of doing what they can't do at home, while my kids are calmly wishing
frenzy-boy would just act calm and normal.
We had one (structured) homeschooler who would come her, JUST BE LOUD, and
eat ice cream until it was all gone (unless we had really lots). He was no
good to my boys as far as gaming or visiting until he had the noise out of
his system, and the ice cream in.
Sandra
<< I wonder what a child is missing in his life that he would enjoy
pretending to pick up hookers or steal cars.>>
Maybe just missing parental trust and respect.
If he says "I would like to play this" and you say "No, not under any
circumstances," he will keep thinking about that forbidden thing. And if
your reasons have to do with questioning whether it will make him become like
the characters, he might not think you're being truly realistic and
thoughtful.
Do you keep murder mysteries out of your house lest he become a murderer? Do
you keep newspapers and TV news out of the house? (I kinda do, but that's
personal preference.) Do you ever watch action movies where people have to
defuse the bomb and have only ten seconds left? Does it make you want to
learn to make bombs, or carry guns around?
My kids don't have that game. They never played the Doom. They do have a
James Bond game for Nintendo something-or-other (64). And they're nice guys
who help younger children do things they can't do. They don't own guns.
Marty got toy cowboy guns for Christmas, for doing tricks and wearing for a
cowboy-theme RPG he does. Kirby has been able to take driver's ed for a year
and a half, but he keeps saying "Next session, I'm not in a hurry" because he
has friends to drive him around, and his karate and work schedule will make
it hard to take driver's ed. So he's not in a hurry to drive around, even,
but he has played games that were simulated driving games and he's sixteen.
I have not seen the things my kids read and do change their desires or
behaviors in any bad ways. I have seen what other families do affect their
kids, when they limit and restrict, and the tension builds up until the kids
are out like a shot, or they come to my house (or wherever) and are in a
FRENZY of doing what they can't do at home, while my kids are calmly wishing
frenzy-boy would just act calm and normal.
We had one (structured) homeschooler who would come her, JUST BE LOUD, and
eat ice cream until it was all gone (unless we had really lots). He was no
good to my boys as far as gaming or visiting until he had the noise out of
his system, and the ice cream in.
Sandra
Shyrley
"pumpkin_kisses_fall_wishes " wrote:
No worse than any other game in my opinion.
The kids know its not real.
There was an interesting article about how vicarious rage and violence is actually carthartic. I'll dig it up one day.
Shyrley
> I understand the concept of removing the appeal of "forbidden fruit",There's no rape in GTA. Certainly shooting and pillage.
> but I wonder what message, as a mother, to condone the vicarious rape,
> pillage, and murders of imaginary humans.
>
No worse than any other game in my opinion.
The kids know its not real.
There was an interesting article about how vicarious rage and violence is actually carthartic. I'll dig it up one day.
Shyrley
Mary Bianco
Didn't want to go searching for the post but wanted to respond. So wording
isn't exact.
Someone made reference to what children could be missing wanting to play
violent games and also made reference to parents condoning that type of
behavior by "allowing" the game.
I don't really see it as my kids missing anything in their lives that
propels them toward playing violent games. I watch them and watch my husband
and we talk...... a lot. They have fun. It's not so much about the game
itself as is the skill to play and what they have to accomplishment. My
daughter likes the wrestling games. She's not as coordinated on the
playstation as her brother. The wrestling is funny to her and half the time,
she's throwing good guys and bad guys around and falling off things herself
just because she finds it humorous. I'm not worried that she'll turn out to
be another WWF player. My son is more into precision and just wanting to
win. He dislikes the wrestling as it's too easy for him. Laughs like crazy
though when his dad and sister play. He likes the idea of having to be
exact, whether it's shooting something, beating a clock or finding something
hidden. One of his favorite games is on the computer. Some Lego game where
you have to follow clues and find hidden things within a certain time.
So no, I'm not worried at all about the games they play or the movies they
watch. If I was, my oldest would be pregnant, drunk, drug addicted, a
murderer, runaway and the list would go on.
Maybe it has to do with the way we talk to our children and more importantly
how they talk to us.
Maybe it has to do with knowing my children as I do.
Maybe it has to do with trusting my children because they deserve it.
All I know is we have never thought of what we do as condoning awful
behavior and we have never thought that our children will go out and steal,
lie, cheat and murder. Not even when someone else suggests it do we have any
doubts.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
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isn't exact.
Someone made reference to what children could be missing wanting to play
violent games and also made reference to parents condoning that type of
behavior by "allowing" the game.
I don't really see it as my kids missing anything in their lives that
propels them toward playing violent games. I watch them and watch my husband
and we talk...... a lot. They have fun. It's not so much about the game
itself as is the skill to play and what they have to accomplishment. My
daughter likes the wrestling games. She's not as coordinated on the
playstation as her brother. The wrestling is funny to her and half the time,
she's throwing good guys and bad guys around and falling off things herself
just because she finds it humorous. I'm not worried that she'll turn out to
be another WWF player. My son is more into precision and just wanting to
win. He dislikes the wrestling as it's too easy for him. Laughs like crazy
though when his dad and sister play. He likes the idea of having to be
exact, whether it's shooting something, beating a clock or finding something
hidden. One of his favorite games is on the computer. Some Lego game where
you have to follow clues and find hidden things within a certain time.
So no, I'm not worried at all about the games they play or the movies they
watch. If I was, my oldest would be pregnant, drunk, drug addicted, a
murderer, runaway and the list would go on.
Maybe it has to do with the way we talk to our children and more importantly
how they talk to us.
Maybe it has to do with knowing my children as I do.
Maybe it has to do with trusting my children because they deserve it.
All I know is we have never thought of what we do as condoning awful
behavior and we have never thought that our children will go out and steal,
lie, cheat and murder. Not even when someone else suggests it do we have any
doubts.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Shyrley
"pumpkin_kisses_fall_wishes " wrote:
I find some of the non-violent games truly boring. Actually the only one I can think of off-hand is Tetris.
I'm the least violent person you could imagine. I'm vegan, anti-war and went to the war protests in DC. I've beena member of CND since I was 12 and I campaigned outside Greenham Common for the removal
of the US nuvlear missiles based there.
But I've always enjoyed violent movies (John Wayne yaaaaaay) and violent games.Aliens vs Predator is my favourite.
Shyrley
> My point wasn't that kissing and sex exist in GTA, but that there areStill, GTA doesn't promote sex. It is violent true.
> alternatives to games which promote gratitous sex and violence.
>
> Denise
>
I find some of the non-violent games truly boring. Actually the only one I can think of off-hand is Tetris.
I'm the least violent person you could imagine. I'm vegan, anti-war and went to the war protests in DC. I've beena member of CND since I was 12 and I campaigned outside Greenham Common for the removal
of the US nuvlear missiles based there.
But I've always enjoyed violent movies (John Wayne yaaaaaay) and violent games.Aliens vs Predator is my favourite.
Shyrley
pumpkin_kisses_fall_wishes <djac99_1999@
If a parent refuses to allow something without ANY explanation, then I
would agree that parental trust and respect is lacking. However, in
my real life experience, most parents (homeschooling and otherwise) do
not hand down outright refusals without clearly explaining their
reasoning. Their children are not repressed drones who binge on
forbidden fruit as soon as they are away from their parents. I find
that they run the gamut in terms of their behavior, as most humans do.
would agree that parental trust and respect is lacking. However, in
my real life experience, most parents (homeschooling and otherwise) do
not hand down outright refusals without clearly explaining their
reasoning. Their children are not repressed drones who binge on
forbidden fruit as soon as they are away from their parents. I find
that they run the gamut in terms of their behavior, as most humans do.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/03 6:39:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
says "no" does not mean the child forgets about it. When a friend of my sons
comes over to play that is the first thing he does, plays the PS2 and the
computer. He has to do that for at least an hour before he is interested in
playing with the boys. He is severely restricted at home on the computer and
PS. But it doesn't mean that he forgets about what he wants. It was the
same with toy guns. I thought about restricting them and I never bought them
for my boys but when they wanted to spend their money on a toy gun I didn't
say no. This same child was not allowed to play with guns. He would run for
the guns when he came over. I think his parents saw that he was still the
same caring young boy he was before and so they gave in on that one.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Maybe just missing parental trust and respect.And they do keep thinking about the forbidden thing. Just because a parent
> If he says "I would like to play this" and you say "No, not under any
> circumstances," he will keep thinking about that forbidden thing. And if
> your reasons have to do with questioning whether it will make him become
> like
> the characters, he might not think you're being truly realistic and
> thoughtful.
>
>
says "no" does not mean the child forgets about it. When a friend of my sons
comes over to play that is the first thing he does, plays the PS2 and the
computer. He has to do that for at least an hour before he is interested in
playing with the boys. He is severely restricted at home on the computer and
PS. But it doesn't mean that he forgets about what he wants. It was the
same with toy guns. I thought about restricting them and I never bought them
for my boys but when they wanted to spend their money on a toy gun I didn't
say no. This same child was not allowed to play with guns. He would run for
the guns when he came over. I think his parents saw that he was still the
same caring young boy he was before and so they gave in on that one.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karin
> > *WE* the ones who aren't distinguishing between fantasy and reality?Perhaps it's a way to be "bad" without really being bad - an outlet.
> >
> > ONE of those people has feelings and it's your child. NONE of the
> people on
> > the game have feelings.
> >
> > Sandra
>
> These games are, of course, fantasy. However, does honoring a child's
> feelings rule out discussing the parent's values with said child? I
> wonder what a child is missing in his life that he would enjoy
> pretending to pick up hookers or steal cars.
Just being able to play in a fantasy world where you know you won't really
get in trouble for doing wrong things.
I don't know - I'm trying to understand the fascination myself.
I do know that my son still knows and respects our values and the rules of
our society.
I don't think he's missing anything in his life.
And I really don't think he needs me imposing my will over his and making
him feel guilty or bad for wanting to play GTA3.
Karin
Karin
Wonderful post, Mary!
I like the way you elaborated on this subject.
Karin
I like the way you elaborated on this subject.
Karin
>importantly
> So no, I'm not worried at all about the games they play or the movies they
> watch. If I was, my oldest would be pregnant, drunk, drug addicted, a
> murderer, runaway and the list would go on.
>
> Maybe it has to do with the way we talk to our children and more
> how they talk to us.steal,
>
> Maybe it has to do with knowing my children as I do.
>
> Maybe it has to do with trusting my children because they deserve it.
>
> All I know is we have never thought of what we do as condoning awful
> behavior and we have never thought that our children will go out and
> lie, cheat and murder. Not even when someone else suggests it do we haveany
> doubts.
>
> Mary B