structure/foreign lang/art
Thad Martin
hi,
my husband and i are both artist as well. he's a sculptor and works in clay,
if you're interested you can see his work @ http://www.deafart.org/.
presently he has a group of 6 pieces in a traveling exhibit featured at this
site.
this falls into the foreign language topic as well and this provides a good
opportunity to 'experience' a culture (based on a foreign language) with a
culture. personally i think sign language is very beautiful and i'm glad that
it's part of my life, though i think i would say this about any language though
spoken languages are a bit of a struggle for me- another one of those dyslexic
thinks.
-susan
austin,tx
Debra Bures wrote:
my husband and i are both artist as well. he's a sculptor and works in clay,
if you're interested you can see his work @ http://www.deafart.org/.
presently he has a group of 6 pieces in a traveling exhibit featured at this
site.
this falls into the foreign language topic as well and this provides a good
opportunity to 'experience' a culture (based on a foreign language) with a
culture. personally i think sign language is very beautiful and i'm glad that
it's part of my life, though i think i would say this about any language though
spoken languages are a bit of a struggle for me- another one of those dyslexic
thinks.
-susan
austin,tx
Debra Bures wrote:
> From: "Debra Bures" <buresfam@...>
>
> My dh and I are potters/artists. We KNOW that the process IS the product!!!
> When we've done clay programs, we always emphasize that there is no right or
> wrong way to explore --that the exploration of the materials is what is
> important. One time we read "A House is a House For Me" then we asked
> everyone to construct a house--kids did a wonderful variety of things: a
> bird's nest, a stable, a bee hive, a tree house among others. I think that
> often people who "teach" art exploration classes mean well, but, in matters
> of consequence, they are truly off base.
> Debra
> -----Original Message-----
> From: McBryan Alignan <clairefree@...>
> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 9:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Structure
>
> >From: McBryan Alignan <clairefree@...>
> >
> >Debra Bures wrote:
> >>
> >> From: "Debra Bures" <buresfam@...>
> >
> > When my dd a(now 11 1/2)
> >> was in kdgn, she was admonished for "messy coloring". This doesn't fan
> the
> >> fire of creativity!!!
> >> Debra
> >
> >Claire and I went to an arts and crafts get together. We went only twice.
> >Each week there was a different "project" - making a marionette or
> >working with clay....There were many different materials - seemed neat...
> >
> >I spoke to the "teacher" after she explained about the "class". I
> >explained my point of view - that it was the creative *process* that is
> >interesting and important. That I was seeking something free and
> >*unstructured*. I must have been dreaming.
> >
> >I hung out reading a book.
> >
> >The teacher took the black marker that Claire chose for her marionette,
> >explained that it was dark and not good - and she began to show
> >Claire how to do it - coloring almost all of the marionette as Claire
> >watched. I put my book down, and explained again to the teacher that
> >it is *Claire* who is creating something in her own way. "Where is the
> >problem with black", I asked?
> >
> >"It's sad".
> >
> >"Really"?
> >
> >"Yes".
> >
> >"No. Claire does not see this black color as sad. *You* see the
> >black color as sad. I like it. Nice contrast".
> >
> >I placed the black marker back within reach of Claire and said she
> >was free to choose any color she wishes and that her Marionette is fine
> >and beautiful.
> >
> >I gently recapped my ideas. The teacher said she thoroughly understood
> >my point of view, but went on to stress the importance of the
> >finished product. She discussed that the *parents* were going to see
> >the artwork. She went on to tell me how much more "free" and "open
> >minded" she was.
> >
> >I felt as if I were talking to a tree trunk.
> >
> >Anyway - I was told the following week that I could not stay - that
> >no parents were permitted to stay. Needless to say - I no longer
> >wanted to stay. Claire and I left - went to the park to breath some
> >fresh air.
> >
> >The pottery class that we attended months before at the same place
> >(Maison du Temps Libre - House of Free Time - Ha!) had the same
> >overwhelming structure and pressure. Claire was enjoying forming
> >clay into a shape, then poking and sculpting it with a tool when she
> >was told to make a mobile. Stars and moons were set in front of
> >here and she was told to quickly get going - with much rush and clapping.
> >She ignored the instruction, thoroughly engrossed in what she was doing.
> >I mentioned she seemed to be enjoying what she was already making.
> >I explained the same stuff to this teacher, once again, as I had done
> >only moments early, just as I did with the other teacher.
> >
> >Another tree trunk.
> >
> >Gymnastics was even worse - but a better end to a story:
> >
> >The teacher explained that no parents were permitted to cross the metal
> >barrier. This was unacceptable to Claire, as the "class" was being held
> >in the other corner of a huge gymnasium. We bowed out but I hung out
> >to check out her "program" and to watch what was supposedly free choice
> > - using any and all of the gym equipment (one staying on the trampoline
> >for as long as one wanted - and moving onto the rings if one chose to,
> >for example...)
> >
> >The teacher sat upon a 'horse' and had a big queen paper hat on.
> >She sat upon this explaining something to all the children who sat
> >around her below. This went on for about 10 minutes. The children
> >all moved together - following the teachers instructions - back and
> >forth - and then gathering around her again. I have no idea
> >what she was saying - her back was to me and she was far away...Seemed
> >to me, though, that these kids did little more than listen to the Queen
> >talk.
> >
> >In front of us, though, there was a group of boys - 6 - from ages 5 to
> >about 11. They were not sitting and listening to someone talk - they
> >were *moving*. They jumped onto a 'horse' from a spring board and flipped
> >off onto a huge thick mat. The teacher, Jean Pierre, invited Claire,
> >who was watching and wanted to join in, into the line. She did a few
> >jumps and was having a ball. They did "tarzan" on the rings, swinging
> >out onto a huge mat. I took my shoes off and hung out by the edge of the
> >mats - crossing the No Parent barrier. The queen didn't kick me out
> >and JP didn't seem to mind...
> >
> >I asked later if it were possible for Claire to join the boys group.
> >
> >No way.
> >
> >She had to be in the baby class with only children her age (3/4).
> >This group - the *fun* group that *moved*, was only for boys.
> >
> >I've gone on much too long here - I just wanted to share that it is
> >my experience that any activity (or class - or book or program or idea)
> >*specifically designed for children*, often *stinks*.
> >
> >It seems to me that incorporating children into the real world
> >- of all that we are already doing or choose to do - offers so much.
> >And so, if I feel like doing pottery - or if Claire feels like doing
> >some pottery - I'll get some clay and just do it. Or take a class
> >for adults and bring her with me. She can join in without limits that
> >are imposed on her simply because she is a child.
> >
> >Last night, too, I saw a first ray of hope when Jean Luc, my husband,
> >told me he did understand the no schooling thing - that he wished
> >he had been free to choose to seek out freely what he wanted to know
> >- and without testing.
> >
> >
> >Thanks for reading my ramblings...
> >
> >Diane McBryan Alignan
> >
> >(Hello again, Lesley)
> >
> >>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> >Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
Thad Martin
McBryan Alignan wrote:
The three people who are signing the song are almost dancing as they sign - the
interpretation of the song as they
sing it through signing - is beautiful like a dance
we have this video and concur with your take and this is my favorite song as well:)
I would like to learn more about sign language - not just letters but learning to
sign and understand. Are there any good videos that you could recommend that are
very good?
a good place to start is dawn sign press. this is a deaf owned business
http://www.dawnsignpress.com/ they produce a set of videos called Signing Naturally
which are used by many colleges. they also have lots of other stuff. we have
Fingerspelling: Expressive & Receptive Fluency which is very helpful in many ways,
like how to hold your hands so you won't get carpal tunnel or other degenerative
conditions, and how to read without identifying individual letters (something i
didn't realize i did naturally in english yet did not apply to reading
fingerspelling). a really great book that can give you a good cultural
understanding is A Journey into the DEAF-WORLD. this place is a very good place
to check out because it's from the deaf culture and not the hearing culture.
another good place is http://www.signenhancers.com/. this is owned by an asl
interpreter and also has a good selection especially in way of grammar and
interpreter skills but has lots of stuff as well. what we have is from them is
their independent study of asl grammar called course 2001 and would highly recommend
it if you want more structure than the signing naturally offers (we have both and
i've learned a lot from each and think they balance each other well)
finally and the biggest company harris communications http://www.harriscomm.com
they carry both dawn sign publications and sign enhancers, among others (their
catalog is over 150 pages, though i can't seem to connect to their web site so
their voice tel# is 800-825-6758). what we have from them is mouth morphemes which
is very helpful (and rene', our 4 year old son, really has fun with it because of
all the challenging/funny faces) and this rounds out our (and i would say any)
collection covering the most basic aspects of asl.
(What's up about not being allowed to sign in some schools?)
this topic is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the injustices done to
deaf people. the book i mentioned before journey into the deaf world can answer
this in great depth, if you want some good info that's a great place. but for now
let me say it has to do with a standard method of 'disempowerment' (something 'we
americans' are perfecting). if you keep people from bonding and forming a group
that can communicate with any sort of true mastery you will have 'slaves', a
subgroup without a 'voice'. the issue is so much deeper and more complex than this
(i.e. history of prejudice in terms of sub level intelligence, insanity etc.), and
the deaf are not alone in this plight. there is a party line, some rhetoric about
how teaching asl will keep the kid from wanting to learn english and if the kid
doesn't learn english s/he will be at a disadvantage. this might sound logical to
some but it fails to take into account that every infant strives to communicate with
those around them, and for a deaf baby, a spoken language is impossible to relate
to. so, if deaf children are prevented from a natural form of communication
(sign/visual), the emotional isolation will most certainly take it's toll. 'we'
are always saying 'we must do what's best for the child', well in my opinion what is
best is to communicate and the only language a deaf person can truly master and have
equal advantage is sign ("functionality" in society be damned). my question to the
people who push oralism is why can't the child (and parents) be taught both -to be a
stickler for one alone is just elitist garbage.
expression often makes others feel so uncomfortable. Too intimate,
i think because asl itself really 'demands' that you not be self-conscious and
really be involved physically (body and face) with what you are expressing, that it
runs contrary to every form of english language 'etiquette'. also because the deaf
rely on what they see and use this to identify and describe it proves to be all to
real for many speaking people who prefer to ignore what is right in front of their
face.
-susan
p.s. i'm glad you like the website
The three people who are signing the song are almost dancing as they sign - the
interpretation of the song as they
sing it through signing - is beautiful like a dance
we have this video and concur with your take and this is my favorite song as well:)
I would like to learn more about sign language - not just letters but learning to
sign and understand. Are there any good videos that you could recommend that are
very good?
a good place to start is dawn sign press. this is a deaf owned business
http://www.dawnsignpress.com/ they produce a set of videos called Signing Naturally
which are used by many colleges. they also have lots of other stuff. we have
Fingerspelling: Expressive & Receptive Fluency which is very helpful in many ways,
like how to hold your hands so you won't get carpal tunnel or other degenerative
conditions, and how to read without identifying individual letters (something i
didn't realize i did naturally in english yet did not apply to reading
fingerspelling). a really great book that can give you a good cultural
understanding is A Journey into the DEAF-WORLD. this place is a very good place
to check out because it's from the deaf culture and not the hearing culture.
another good place is http://www.signenhancers.com/. this is owned by an asl
interpreter and also has a good selection especially in way of grammar and
interpreter skills but has lots of stuff as well. what we have is from them is
their independent study of asl grammar called course 2001 and would highly recommend
it if you want more structure than the signing naturally offers (we have both and
i've learned a lot from each and think they balance each other well)
finally and the biggest company harris communications http://www.harriscomm.com
they carry both dawn sign publications and sign enhancers, among others (their
catalog is over 150 pages, though i can't seem to connect to their web site so
their voice tel# is 800-825-6758). what we have from them is mouth morphemes which
is very helpful (and rene', our 4 year old son, really has fun with it because of
all the challenging/funny faces) and this rounds out our (and i would say any)
collection covering the most basic aspects of asl.
(What's up about not being allowed to sign in some schools?)
this topic is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the injustices done to
deaf people. the book i mentioned before journey into the deaf world can answer
this in great depth, if you want some good info that's a great place. but for now
let me say it has to do with a standard method of 'disempowerment' (something 'we
americans' are perfecting). if you keep people from bonding and forming a group
that can communicate with any sort of true mastery you will have 'slaves', a
subgroup without a 'voice'. the issue is so much deeper and more complex than this
(i.e. history of prejudice in terms of sub level intelligence, insanity etc.), and
the deaf are not alone in this plight. there is a party line, some rhetoric about
how teaching asl will keep the kid from wanting to learn english and if the kid
doesn't learn english s/he will be at a disadvantage. this might sound logical to
some but it fails to take into account that every infant strives to communicate with
those around them, and for a deaf baby, a spoken language is impossible to relate
to. so, if deaf children are prevented from a natural form of communication
(sign/visual), the emotional isolation will most certainly take it's toll. 'we'
are always saying 'we must do what's best for the child', well in my opinion what is
best is to communicate and the only language a deaf person can truly master and have
equal advantage is sign ("functionality" in society be damned). my question to the
people who push oralism is why can't the child (and parents) be taught both -to be a
stickler for one alone is just elitist garbage.
expression often makes others feel so uncomfortable. Too intimate,
i think because asl itself really 'demands' that you not be self-conscious and
really be involved physically (body and face) with what you are expressing, that it
runs contrary to every form of english language 'etiquette'. also because the deaf
rely on what they see and use this to identify and describe it proves to be all to
real for many speaking people who prefer to ignore what is right in front of their
face.
-susan
p.s. i'm glad you like the website
>
[email protected]
I use sign language here at home too. I am slowly losing my hearing, I
figure I've got maybe ten years left of hearing at the most so I took a sign
language class at the college with my boyfriend a couple of years ago. I
like it. Unfortunately, the sign 2 class rarely goes because there's not
enough students to keep the class. I have about 5 sign books laying around
which I go through often and one cd rom. I teach my kids little by little
and they like it. I teach my homeschooled son more often because he is home
with me. He's a visual learner so he picks up on it quite well.
Chelle the desert dweller
In a message dated 12/17/99 2:20:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
tmartin@... writes:
figure I've got maybe ten years left of hearing at the most so I took a sign
language class at the college with my boyfriend a couple of years ago. I
like it. Unfortunately, the sign 2 class rarely goes because there's not
enough students to keep the class. I have about 5 sign books laying around
which I go through often and one cd rom. I teach my kids little by little
and they like it. I teach my homeschooled son more often because he is home
with me. He's a visual learner so he picks up on it quite well.
Chelle the desert dweller
In a message dated 12/17/99 2:20:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
tmartin@... writes:
> this falls into the foreign language topic as well and this provides a good
> opportunity to 'experience' a culture (based on a foreign language) with a
> culture. personally i think sign language is very beautiful and i'm glad
> that
> it's part of my life,
McBryan Alignan
Thad Martin wrote:
Very interesting and very sad, too.
Sign language is very beautiful. Claire and I just received a sign/song video
cassette. Aside from some irritating songs about having no "dessert" until
you clean your plate and a little girl who never says please and is sent
off into the woods ntil she can "learn" to say please, it was a neat video.
There is a song about the wind. The three people who are signing the song
are almost dancing as they sign - the interpretation of the song as they
sing it through signing - is beautiful like a dance.
I would like to learn more about sign language - not just letters but learning
to sign and understand. Are there any good videos that you could recommend
that are very good?
(What's up about not being allowed to sign in some schools?)
There seems to be a very special deep communication between people who are
not speaking and sign. Makes me think back on the time when Claire was
a newborn baby. Language seemed to get in the way of a very deep and real
communication. Deaf people seem to have a special connection/link that
speaking and hearing people have "lost". Interesting what I read on
the art site about how this special connection and expression often
makes others feel so uncomfortable. Too intimate, I suppose - distance
and pretentiousness become more "comfortable".
Diane McBryan Alignan
>Thanks, Susan - I enjoyed reading and seeing the exhibit.
> From: Thad Martin <tmartin@...>
>
> hi,
>
> my husband and i are both artist as well. he's a sculptor and works in clay,
> if you're interested you can see his work @ http://www.deafart.org/.
> presently he has a group of 6 pieces in a traveling exhibit featured at this
> site.
>
> this falls into the foreign language topic as well and this provides a good
> opportunity to 'experience' a culture (based on a foreign language) with a
> culture. personally i think sign language is very beautiful and i'm glad that
> it's part of my life, though i think i would say this about any language though
> spoken languages are a bit of a struggle for me- another one of those dyslexic
> thinks.
>
> -susan
Very interesting and very sad, too.
Sign language is very beautiful. Claire and I just received a sign/song video
cassette. Aside from some irritating songs about having no "dessert" until
you clean your plate and a little girl who never says please and is sent
off into the woods ntil she can "learn" to say please, it was a neat video.
There is a song about the wind. The three people who are signing the song
are almost dancing as they sign - the interpretation of the song as they
sing it through signing - is beautiful like a dance.
I would like to learn more about sign language - not just letters but learning
to sign and understand. Are there any good videos that you could recommend
that are very good?
(What's up about not being allowed to sign in some schools?)
There seems to be a very special deep communication between people who are
not speaking and sign. Makes me think back on the time when Claire was
a newborn baby. Language seemed to get in the way of a very deep and real
communication. Deaf people seem to have a special connection/link that
speaking and hearing people have "lost". Interesting what I read on
the art site about how this special connection and expression often
makes others feel so uncomfortable. Too intimate, I suppose - distance
and pretentiousness become more "comfortable".
Diane McBryan Alignan
McBryan Alignan
Thank you very much, Susan, for the wealth of information. I look
forward to checking it all out and learning more.
Diane
forward to checking it all out and learning more.
Diane
Thad Martin
hi,
personally i think asl is a beautiful language. two things i would recommend is
videos over books because it's hard to really get all the aspects like movement,
orientation and mouth/facial expression from a book. the second would be to
meet deaf people - i'm admittedly am very poor at this- i'm kind of a 'home
body' but if you can you will learn much faster. just some ideas. being deaf
is such a different reality from hearing. i never realized how much of the
information i unconsciously use i get from hearing. it was a bit of an
adjustment for me to live with a deaf person - honestly he was the first deaf
person i met and on our first date he taught me the alphabet. but often i envy
him so i don't think of being deaf as a loss but rather a shift.
-susan
austin,tx
HellElena@... wrote:
personally i think asl is a beautiful language. two things i would recommend is
videos over books because it's hard to really get all the aspects like movement,
orientation and mouth/facial expression from a book. the second would be to
meet deaf people - i'm admittedly am very poor at this- i'm kind of a 'home
body' but if you can you will learn much faster. just some ideas. being deaf
is such a different reality from hearing. i never realized how much of the
information i unconsciously use i get from hearing. it was a bit of an
adjustment for me to live with a deaf person - honestly he was the first deaf
person i met and on our first date he taught me the alphabet. but often i envy
him so i don't think of being deaf as a loss but rather a shift.
-susan
austin,tx
HellElena@... wrote:
> From: HellElena@...
>
> I use sign language here at home too. I am slowly losing my hearing, I
> figure I've got maybe ten years left of hearing at the most so I took a sign
> language class at the college with my boyfriend a couple of years ago. I
> like it. Unfortunately, the sign 2 class rarely goes because there's not
> enough students to keep the class. I have about 5 sign books laying around
> which I go through often and one cd rom. I teach my kids little by little
> and they like it. I teach my homeschooled son more often because he is home
> with me. He's a visual learner so he picks up on it quite well.
> Chelle the desert dweller
Thad Martin
> hi,
>
> you're very welcome, anytime really. best wishes for the holidays.
>
> -susan
> austin,tx
>
> McBryan Alignan wrote:
>
> > From: McBryan Alignan <clairefree@...>
> >
> > Thank you very much, Susan, for the wealth of information. I look
> > forward to checking it all out and learning more.
> >
> > Diane
> >