Re: Structure
McBryan Alignan
Debra Bures wrote:
Each week there was a different "project" - making a marionette or
working with clay....There were many different materials - seemed neat...
I spoke to the "teacher" after she explained about the "class". I
explained my point of view - that it was the creative *process* that is
interesting and important. That I was seeking something free and
*unstructured*. I must have been dreaming.
I hung out reading a book.
The teacher took the black marker that Claire chose for her marionette,
explained that it was dark and not good - and she began to show
Claire how to do it - coloring almost all of the marionette as Claire
watched. I put my book down, and explained again to the teacher that
it is *Claire* who is creating something in her own way. "Where is the
problem with black", I asked?
"It's sad".
"Really"?
"Yes".
"No. Claire does not see this black color as sad. *You* see the
black color as sad. I like it. Nice contrast".
I placed the black marker back within reach of Claire and said she
was free to choose any color she wishes and that her Marionette is fine
and beautiful.
I gently recapped my ideas. The teacher said she thoroughly understood
my point of view, but went on to stress the importance of the
finished product. She discussed that the *parents* were going to see
the artwork. She went on to tell me how much more "free" and "open
minded" she was.
I felt as if I were talking to a tree trunk.
Anyway - I was told the following week that I could not stay - that
no parents were permitted to stay. Needless to say - I no longer
wanted to stay. Claire and I left - went to the park to breath some
fresh air.
The pottery class that we attended months before at the same place
(Maison du Temps Libre - House of Free Time - Ha!) had the same
overwhelming structure and pressure. Claire was enjoying forming
clay into a shape, then poking and sculpting it with a tool when she
was told to make a mobile. Stars and moons were set in front of
here and she was told to quickly get going - with much rush and clapping.
She ignored the instruction, thoroughly engrossed in what she was doing.
I mentioned she seemed to be enjoying what she was already making.
I explained the same stuff to this teacher, once again, as I had done
only moments early, just as I did with the other teacher.
Another tree trunk.
Gymnastics was even worse - but a better end to a story:
The teacher explained that no parents were permitted to cross the metal
barrier. This was unacceptable to Claire, as the "class" was being held
in the other corner of a huge gymnasium. We bowed out but I hung out
to check out her "program" and to watch what was supposedly free choice
- using any and all of the gym equipment (one staying on the trampoline
for as long as one wanted - and moving onto the rings if one chose to,
for example...)
The teacher sat upon a 'horse' and had a big queen paper hat on.
She sat upon this explaining something to all the children who sat
around her below. This went on for about 10 minutes. The children
all moved together - following the teachers instructions - back and
forth - and then gathering around her again. I have no idea
what she was saying - her back was to me and she was far away...Seemed
to me, though, that these kids did little more than listen to the Queen
talk.
In front of us, though, there was a group of boys - 6 - from ages 5 to
about 11. They were not sitting and listening to someone talk - they
were *moving*. They jumped onto a 'horse' from a spring board and flipped
off onto a huge thick mat. The teacher, Jean Pierre, invited Claire,
who was watching and wanted to join in, into the line. She did a few
jumps and was having a ball. They did "tarzan" on the rings, swinging
out onto a huge mat. I took my shoes off and hung out by the edge of the
mats - crossing the No Parent barrier. The queen didn't kick me out
and JP didn't seem to mind...
I asked later if it were possible for Claire to join the boys group.
No way.
She had to be in the baby class with only children her age (3/4).
This group - the *fun* group that *moved*, was only for boys.
I've gone on much too long here - I just wanted to share that it is
my experience that any activity (or class - or book or program or idea)
*specifically designed for children*, often *stinks*.
It seems to me that incorporating children into the real world
- of all that we are already doing or choose to do - offers so much.
And so, if I feel like doing pottery - or if Claire feels like doing
some pottery - I'll get some clay and just do it. Or take a class
for adults and bring her with me. She can join in without limits that
are imposed on her simply because she is a child.
Last night, too, I saw a first ray of hope when Jean Luc, my husband,
told me he did understand the no schooling thing - that he wished
he had been free to choose to seek out freely what he wanted to know
- and without testing.
Thanks for reading my ramblings...
Diane McBryan Alignan
(Hello again, Lesley)
>When my dd a(now 11 1/2)
> From: "Debra Bures" <buresfam@...>
> was in kdgn, she was admonished for "messy coloring". This doesn't fan theClaire and I went to an arts and crafts get together. We went only twice.
> fire of creativity!!!
> Debra
Each week there was a different "project" - making a marionette or
working with clay....There were many different materials - seemed neat...
I spoke to the "teacher" after she explained about the "class". I
explained my point of view - that it was the creative *process* that is
interesting and important. That I was seeking something free and
*unstructured*. I must have been dreaming.
I hung out reading a book.
The teacher took the black marker that Claire chose for her marionette,
explained that it was dark and not good - and she began to show
Claire how to do it - coloring almost all of the marionette as Claire
watched. I put my book down, and explained again to the teacher that
it is *Claire* who is creating something in her own way. "Where is the
problem with black", I asked?
"It's sad".
"Really"?
"Yes".
"No. Claire does not see this black color as sad. *You* see the
black color as sad. I like it. Nice contrast".
I placed the black marker back within reach of Claire and said she
was free to choose any color she wishes and that her Marionette is fine
and beautiful.
I gently recapped my ideas. The teacher said she thoroughly understood
my point of view, but went on to stress the importance of the
finished product. She discussed that the *parents* were going to see
the artwork. She went on to tell me how much more "free" and "open
minded" she was.
I felt as if I were talking to a tree trunk.
Anyway - I was told the following week that I could not stay - that
no parents were permitted to stay. Needless to say - I no longer
wanted to stay. Claire and I left - went to the park to breath some
fresh air.
The pottery class that we attended months before at the same place
(Maison du Temps Libre - House of Free Time - Ha!) had the same
overwhelming structure and pressure. Claire was enjoying forming
clay into a shape, then poking and sculpting it with a tool when she
was told to make a mobile. Stars and moons were set in front of
here and she was told to quickly get going - with much rush and clapping.
She ignored the instruction, thoroughly engrossed in what she was doing.
I mentioned she seemed to be enjoying what she was already making.
I explained the same stuff to this teacher, once again, as I had done
only moments early, just as I did with the other teacher.
Another tree trunk.
Gymnastics was even worse - but a better end to a story:
The teacher explained that no parents were permitted to cross the metal
barrier. This was unacceptable to Claire, as the "class" was being held
in the other corner of a huge gymnasium. We bowed out but I hung out
to check out her "program" and to watch what was supposedly free choice
- using any and all of the gym equipment (one staying on the trampoline
for as long as one wanted - and moving onto the rings if one chose to,
for example...)
The teacher sat upon a 'horse' and had a big queen paper hat on.
She sat upon this explaining something to all the children who sat
around her below. This went on for about 10 minutes. The children
all moved together - following the teachers instructions - back and
forth - and then gathering around her again. I have no idea
what she was saying - her back was to me and she was far away...Seemed
to me, though, that these kids did little more than listen to the Queen
talk.
In front of us, though, there was a group of boys - 6 - from ages 5 to
about 11. They were not sitting and listening to someone talk - they
were *moving*. They jumped onto a 'horse' from a spring board and flipped
off onto a huge thick mat. The teacher, Jean Pierre, invited Claire,
who was watching and wanted to join in, into the line. She did a few
jumps and was having a ball. They did "tarzan" on the rings, swinging
out onto a huge mat. I took my shoes off and hung out by the edge of the
mats - crossing the No Parent barrier. The queen didn't kick me out
and JP didn't seem to mind...
I asked later if it were possible for Claire to join the boys group.
No way.
She had to be in the baby class with only children her age (3/4).
This group - the *fun* group that *moved*, was only for boys.
I've gone on much too long here - I just wanted to share that it is
my experience that any activity (or class - or book or program or idea)
*specifically designed for children*, often *stinks*.
It seems to me that incorporating children into the real world
- of all that we are already doing or choose to do - offers so much.
And so, if I feel like doing pottery - or if Claire feels like doing
some pottery - I'll get some clay and just do it. Or take a class
for adults and bring her with me. She can join in without limits that
are imposed on her simply because she is a child.
Last night, too, I saw a first ray of hope when Jean Luc, my husband,
told me he did understand the no schooling thing - that he wished
he had been free to choose to seek out freely what he wanted to know
- and without testing.
Thanks for reading my ramblings...
Diane McBryan Alignan
(Hello again, Lesley)
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/99 9:59:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
clairefree@... writes:
<<
Last night, too, I saw a first ray of hope when Jean Luc, my husband,
told me he did understand the no schooling thing - that he wished
he had been free to choose to seek out freely what he wanted to know
- and without testing.
Reminds me a great deal of many of our experiences.
I'm a French teacher by profession, by the way. Now "retired"--ha ha! Our
local home schooling group has learning afternoons on Wednesday. The French,
German and art classes are taught by moms in the group and the science
classes taught by a woman who gives science enrichment classes to various
groups. The science teacher has "learned" from our group, I think, and has
really changed her style since the beginning of the year. All of the
teachers welcome the moms in their classes.
I'm teaching two French classes, one for pre-school and one for about age
eight and up. The moms who stay in the younger class are such a joy and an
enormous help in encouraging the children. I can't imagine this group now
without them. I've taught young children in many different situations in the
past, but this is our first year of home schooling and I had no idea what to
expect of these children and was REALLY nervous at the beginning. What I've
discovered is that the more unstructured the class, the better, in most ways.
We are having a ball.
Marcie
clairefree@... writes:
<<
Last night, too, I saw a first ray of hope when Jean Luc, my husband,
told me he did understand the no schooling thing - that he wished
he had been free to choose to seek out freely what he wanted to know
- and without testing.
>>Diane, I really enjoyed reading your tales of the "child friendly" classes.
Reminds me a great deal of many of our experiences.
I'm a French teacher by profession, by the way. Now "retired"--ha ha! Our
local home schooling group has learning afternoons on Wednesday. The French,
German and art classes are taught by moms in the group and the science
classes taught by a woman who gives science enrichment classes to various
groups. The science teacher has "learned" from our group, I think, and has
really changed her style since the beginning of the year. All of the
teachers welcome the moms in their classes.
I'm teaching two French classes, one for pre-school and one for about age
eight and up. The moms who stay in the younger class are such a joy and an
enormous help in encouraging the children. I can't imagine this group now
without them. I've taught young children in many different situations in the
past, but this is our first year of home schooling and I had no idea what to
expect of these children and was REALLY nervous at the beginning. What I've
discovered is that the more unstructured the class, the better, in most ways.
We are having a ball.
Marcie
Debra Bures
My dh and I are potters/artists. We KNOW that the process IS the product!!!
When we've done clay programs, we always emphasize that there is no right or
wrong way to explore --that the exploration of the materials is what is
important. One time we read "A House is a House For Me" then we asked
everyone to construct a house--kids did a wonderful variety of things: a
bird's nest, a stable, a bee hive, a tree house among others. I think that
often people who "teach" art exploration classes mean well, but, in matters
of consequence, they are truly off base.
Debra
-----Original Message-----
From: McBryan Alignan <clairefree@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Structure
When we've done clay programs, we always emphasize that there is no right or
wrong way to explore --that the exploration of the materials is what is
important. One time we read "A House is a House For Me" then we asked
everyone to construct a house--kids did a wonderful variety of things: a
bird's nest, a stable, a bee hive, a tree house among others. I think that
often people who "teach" art exploration classes mean well, but, in matters
of consequence, they are truly off base.
Debra
-----Original Message-----
From: McBryan Alignan <clairefree@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Structure
>From: McBryan Alignan <clairefree@...>the
>
>Debra Bures wrote:
>>
>> From: "Debra Bures" <buresfam@...>
>
> When my dd a(now 11 1/2)
>> was in kdgn, she was admonished for "messy coloring". This doesn't fan
>> fire of creativity!!!
>> Debra
>
>Claire and I went to an arts and crafts get together. We went only twice.
>Each week there was a different "project" - making a marionette or
>working with clay....There were many different materials - seemed neat...
>
>I spoke to the "teacher" after she explained about the "class". I
>explained my point of view - that it was the creative *process* that is
>interesting and important. That I was seeking something free and
>*unstructured*. I must have been dreaming.
>
>I hung out reading a book.
>
>The teacher took the black marker that Claire chose for her marionette,
>explained that it was dark and not good - and she began to show
>Claire how to do it - coloring almost all of the marionette as Claire
>watched. I put my book down, and explained again to the teacher that
>it is *Claire* who is creating something in her own way. "Where is the
>problem with black", I asked?
>
>"It's sad".
>
>"Really"?
>
>"Yes".
>
>"No. Claire does not see this black color as sad. *You* see the
>black color as sad. I like it. Nice contrast".
>
>I placed the black marker back within reach of Claire and said she
>was free to choose any color she wishes and that her Marionette is fine
>and beautiful.
>
>I gently recapped my ideas. The teacher said she thoroughly understood
>my point of view, but went on to stress the importance of the
>finished product. She discussed that the *parents* were going to see
>the artwork. She went on to tell me how much more "free" and "open
>minded" she was.
>
>I felt as if I were talking to a tree trunk.
>
>Anyway - I was told the following week that I could not stay - that
>no parents were permitted to stay. Needless to say - I no longer
>wanted to stay. Claire and I left - went to the park to breath some
>fresh air.
>
>The pottery class that we attended months before at the same place
>(Maison du Temps Libre - House of Free Time - Ha!) had the same
>overwhelming structure and pressure. Claire was enjoying forming
>clay into a shape, then poking and sculpting it with a tool when she
>was told to make a mobile. Stars and moons were set in front of
>here and she was told to quickly get going - with much rush and clapping.
>She ignored the instruction, thoroughly engrossed in what she was doing.
>I mentioned she seemed to be enjoying what she was already making.
>I explained the same stuff to this teacher, once again, as I had done
>only moments early, just as I did with the other teacher.
>
>Another tree trunk.
>
>Gymnastics was even worse - but a better end to a story:
>
>The teacher explained that no parents were permitted to cross the metal
>barrier. This was unacceptable to Claire, as the "class" was being held
>in the other corner of a huge gymnasium. We bowed out but I hung out
>to check out her "program" and to watch what was supposedly free choice
> - using any and all of the gym equipment (one staying on the trampoline
>for as long as one wanted - and moving onto the rings if one chose to,
>for example...)
>
>The teacher sat upon a 'horse' and had a big queen paper hat on.
>She sat upon this explaining something to all the children who sat
>around her below. This went on for about 10 minutes. The children
>all moved together - following the teachers instructions - back and
>forth - and then gathering around her again. I have no idea
>what she was saying - her back was to me and she was far away...Seemed
>to me, though, that these kids did little more than listen to the Queen
>talk.
>
>In front of us, though, there was a group of boys - 6 - from ages 5 to
>about 11. They were not sitting and listening to someone talk - they
>were *moving*. They jumped onto a 'horse' from a spring board and flipped
>off onto a huge thick mat. The teacher, Jean Pierre, invited Claire,
>who was watching and wanted to join in, into the line. She did a few
>jumps and was having a ball. They did "tarzan" on the rings, swinging
>out onto a huge mat. I took my shoes off and hung out by the edge of the
>mats - crossing the No Parent barrier. The queen didn't kick me out
>and JP didn't seem to mind...
>
>I asked later if it were possible for Claire to join the boys group.
>
>No way.
>
>She had to be in the baby class with only children her age (3/4).
>This group - the *fun* group that *moved*, was only for boys.
>
>I've gone on much too long here - I just wanted to share that it is
>my experience that any activity (or class - or book or program or idea)
>*specifically designed for children*, often *stinks*.
>
>It seems to me that incorporating children into the real world
>- of all that we are already doing or choose to do - offers so much.
>And so, if I feel like doing pottery - or if Claire feels like doing
>some pottery - I'll get some clay and just do it. Or take a class
>for adults and bring her with me. She can join in without limits that
>are imposed on her simply because she is a child.
>
>Last night, too, I saw a first ray of hope when Jean Luc, my husband,
>told me he did understand the no schooling thing - that he wished
>he had been free to choose to seek out freely what he wanted to know
>- and without testing.
>
>
>Thanks for reading my ramblings...
>
>Diane McBryan Alignan
>
>(Hello again, Lesley)
>
>>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
McBryan Alignan
Debra Bures wrote:
Teaching - well... school, just by its very nature, has an end in mind.
No only is the end more important that the experience, but it gets
labeled good or bad in any number of ways. If there were no end in mind,
the teacher would not be needed - as a teacher, anyway - it (teaching)
would have more to do with sharing information. It is the teacher who
assesses - even as the child is doing. This ruins and distracts from
the process and the fun of living and doing - knowing/learning. I can
think of nothing that destroys art, creativity and individuality more
than one who sets out to teach something, rather than share ideas by
just doing what one does, naturally and by supporting another person's
interests when they seek out information. It's about sharing
information, respectfully, never setting out to "teach".
What is that Chinese saying?...somthing along the lines of:
The worst teacher teaches students.
A good teacher respects students.
The wisest teacher's teachings go completely unnoticed.
The last is into his own work and stuff - he naturally teaches others
who are interested in what he does and have sought out more about
what he is doing. I imagine here, that less is said and more is done.
People talk too much.
Diane McBryan Alignan
>So true.
> From: "Debra Bures" <buresfam@...>
>
> My dh and I are potters/artists. We KNOW that the process IS the product!!!
> When we've done clay programs, we always emphasize that there is no right or
> wrong way to explore --that the exploration of the materials is what is
> important. One time we read "A House is a House For Me" then we asked
> everyone to construct a house--kids did a wonderful variety of things: a
> bird's nest, a stable, a bee hive, a tree house among others. I think that
> often people who "teach" art exploration classes mean well, but, in matters
> of consequence, they are truly off base.
Teaching - well... school, just by its very nature, has an end in mind.
No only is the end more important that the experience, but it gets
labeled good or bad in any number of ways. If there were no end in mind,
the teacher would not be needed - as a teacher, anyway - it (teaching)
would have more to do with sharing information. It is the teacher who
assesses - even as the child is doing. This ruins and distracts from
the process and the fun of living and doing - knowing/learning. I can
think of nothing that destroys art, creativity and individuality more
than one who sets out to teach something, rather than share ideas by
just doing what one does, naturally and by supporting another person's
interests when they seek out information. It's about sharing
information, respectfully, never setting out to "teach".
What is that Chinese saying?...somthing along the lines of:
The worst teacher teaches students.
A good teacher respects students.
The wisest teacher's teachings go completely unnoticed.
The last is into his own work and stuff - he naturally teaches others
who are interested in what he does and have sought out more about
what he is doing. I imagine here, that less is said and more is done.
People talk too much.
Diane McBryan Alignan
[email protected]
I saw a "gingerbread teepee" today. It was great!
Mary Ellen
Seek joy in what you give, not in what you get.
bird's nest, a stable, a bee hive, a tree house among others.>>>>>>
___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
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Mary Ellen
Seek joy in what you give, not in what you get.
>>>>>One time we read "A House is a House For Me" then we askedeveryone to construct a house--kids did a wonderful variety of things: a
bird's nest, a stable, a bee hive, a tree house among others.>>>>>>
___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Sherry Hagen
Hi,
I enjoyed your rambling. It's nice to read about parents that are noticing what
their children want to learn and going to bat for them. I have a 5 1/2 year old
son. We've just finished a swimming class. It went great, they were willing
to be flexible with him when there were things he didn't want to try yet. ( I'm
able to watch through the glass windows) He starts gymnastics next month (no
place for parents to watch) We'll see how it goes, thanks for talking about
your experiences. He is continuing with swimming class as well.
Take care,
Happy New Year!
Sherry
McBryan Alignan wrote:
I enjoyed your rambling. It's nice to read about parents that are noticing what
their children want to learn and going to bat for them. I have a 5 1/2 year old
son. We've just finished a swimming class. It went great, they were willing
to be flexible with him when there were things he didn't want to try yet. ( I'm
able to watch through the glass windows) He starts gymnastics next month (no
place for parents to watch) We'll see how it goes, thanks for talking about
your experiences. He is continuing with swimming class as well.
Take care,
Happy New Year!
Sherry
McBryan Alignan wrote:
> From: McBryan Alignan <clairefree@...>
>
> Debra Bures wrote:
> >
> > From: "Debra Bures" <buresfam@...>
>
> When my dd a(now 11 1/2)
> > was in kdgn, she was admonished for "messy coloring". This doesn't fan the
> > fire of creativity!!!
> > Debra
>
> Claire and I went to an arts and crafts get together. We went only twice.
> Each week there was a different "project" - making a marionette or
> working with clay....There were many different materials - seemed neat...
>
> I spoke to the "teacher" after she explained about the "class". I
> explained my point of view - that it was the creative *process* that is
> interesting and important. That I was seeking something free and
> *unstructured*. I must have been dreaming.
>
> I hung out reading a book.
>
> The teacher took the black marker that Claire chose for her marionette,
> explained that it was dark and not good - and she began to show
> Claire how to do it - coloring almost all of the marionette as Claire
> watched. I put my book down, and explained again to the teacher that
> it is *Claire* who is creating something in her own way. "Where is the
> problem with black", I asked?
>
> "It's sad".
>
> "Really"?
>
> "Yes".
>
> "No. Claire does not see this black color as sad. *You* see the
> black color as sad. I like it. Nice contrast".
>
> I placed the black marker back within reach of Claire and said she
> was free to choose any color she wishes and that her Marionette is fine
> and beautiful.
>
> I gently recapped my ideas. The teacher said she thoroughly understood
> my point of view, but went on to stress the importance of the
> finished product. She discussed that the *parents* were going to see
> the artwork. She went on to tell me how much more "free" and "open
> minded" she was.
>
> I felt as if I were talking to a tree trunk.
>
> Anyway - I was told the following week that I could not stay - that
> no parents were permitted to stay. Needless to say - I no longer
> wanted to stay. Claire and I left - went to the park to breath some
> fresh air.
>
> The pottery class that we attended months before at the same place
> (Maison du Temps Libre - House of Free Time - Ha!) had the same
> overwhelming structure and pressure. Claire was enjoying forming
> clay into a shape, then poking and sculpting it with a tool when she
> was told to make a mobile. Stars and moons were set in front of
> here and she was told to quickly get going - with much rush and clapping.
> She ignored the instruction, thoroughly engrossed in what she was doing.
> I mentioned she seemed to be enjoying what she was already making.
> I explained the same stuff to this teacher, once again, as I had done
> only moments early, just as I did with the other teacher.
>
> Another tree trunk.
>
> Gymnastics was even worse - but a better end to a story:
>
> The teacher explained that no parents were permitted to cross the metal
> barrier. This was unacceptable to Claire, as the "class" was being held
> in the other corner of a huge gymnasium. We bowed out but I hung out
> to check out her "program" and to watch what was supposedly free choice
> - using any and all of the gym equipment (one staying on the trampoline
> for as long as one wanted - and moving onto the rings if one chose to,
> for example...)
>
> The teacher sat upon a 'horse' and had a big queen paper hat on.
> She sat upon this explaining something to all the children who sat
> around her below. This went on for about 10 minutes. The children
> all moved together - following the teachers instructions - back and
> forth - and then gathering around her again. I have no idea
> what she was saying - her back was to me and she was far away...Seemed
> to me, though, that these kids did little more than listen to the Queen
> talk.
>
> In front of us, though, there was a group of boys - 6 - from ages 5 to
> about 11. They were not sitting and listening to someone talk - they
> were *moving*. They jumped onto a 'horse' from a spring board and flipped
> off onto a huge thick mat. The teacher, Jean Pierre, invited Claire,
> who was watching and wanted to join in, into the line. She did a few
> jumps and was having a ball. They did "tarzan" on the rings, swinging
> out onto a huge mat. I took my shoes off and hung out by the edge of the
> mats - crossing the No Parent barrier. The queen didn't kick me out
> and JP didn't seem to mind...
>
> I asked later if it were possible for Claire to join the boys group.
>
> No way.
>
> She had to be in the baby class with only children her age (3/4).
> This group - the *fun* group that *moved*, was only for boys.
>
> I've gone on much too long here - I just wanted to share that it is
> my experience that any activity (or class - or book or program or idea)
> *specifically designed for children*, often *stinks*.
>
> It seems to me that incorporating children into the real world
> - of all that we are already doing or choose to do - offers so much.
> And so, if I feel like doing pottery - or if Claire feels like doing
> some pottery - I'll get some clay and just do it. Or take a class
> for adults and bring her with me. She can join in without limits that
> are imposed on her simply because she is a child.
>
> Last night, too, I saw a first ray of hope when Jean Luc, my husband,
> told me he did understand the no schooling thing - that he wished
> he had been free to choose to seek out freely what he wanted to know
> - and without testing.
>
>
> Thanks for reading my ramblings...
>
> Diane McBryan Alignan
>
> (Hello again, Lesley)
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
Sherry Hagen
Hi Folks,
Well our "school" has begun. Basically that means my 7 year old son and I
set a timer for 90 minutes every day, usually mornings and I will not answer
the phone, do dishes, laundry and other household or business chores. My
son cannot play computer games, watch TV or do other activities he would do
"independently." It's been a great first few days. We played "Star Wars
Monopoly" for a total of 5 hours across several days. Great for math and
life skills. He's in charge of the bank. He won by the way. We also did a
Science experiment. We are currently playing Scrabble Junior. I enter what
ever we're doing in a teacher planner and apply it to that subject. We take
turns making suggestions on what to do in the 90 minutes set aside for us to
do "school" together. 30 minutes are also set aside for him to do those
more independent activities as well, I usually do my own thing then as well.
In the afternoon we do our outings, swimming, volunteering at the animal
shelter, grocery shopping. This morning we have a tour of a cheeps factory.
This seems to be meeting both our needs at this time.
Blessings and Success,
Sherry
Well our "school" has begun. Basically that means my 7 year old son and I
set a timer for 90 minutes every day, usually mornings and I will not answer
the phone, do dishes, laundry and other household or business chores. My
son cannot play computer games, watch TV or do other activities he would do
"independently." It's been a great first few days. We played "Star Wars
Monopoly" for a total of 5 hours across several days. Great for math and
life skills. He's in charge of the bank. He won by the way. We also did a
Science experiment. We are currently playing Scrabble Junior. I enter what
ever we're doing in a teacher planner and apply it to that subject. We take
turns making suggestions on what to do in the 90 minutes set aside for us to
do "school" together. 30 minutes are also set aside for him to do those
more independent activities as well, I usually do my own thing then as well.
In the afternoon we do our outings, swimming, volunteering at the animal
shelter, grocery shopping. This morning we have a tour of a cheeps factory.
This seems to be meeting both our needs at this time.
Blessings and Success,
Sherry
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/7/2001 8:56:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, oilmagic@...
writes:
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> This morning we have a tour of a cheeps factory.This could be trouble!! :)
>
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<< Well our "school" has begun. Basically that means my 7 year old son and I
set a timer for 90 minutes every day, usually mornings and I will not answer
the phone...>>
I have three questions for you to consider as you continue your journey
toward unschooling. We don't need the answers, but you might.
#1 What if a phone call was an invitation to go somewhere REALLY WONDERFUL?
Or someone saying someone you know was about to be on TV, or a talk show was
about to be about unschooling?
What if the phone call were someone needing emergency automotive help two
blocks away from you? That would be more educational than just about any 90
minute home-stuff.
#2 Might it have been more useful to play a five hour game all in one day
than to stretch a five hour game over five days? (And it might have been
only a four hour game, too, without the prep and review each day.)
#3 Will the afternoon, evening, early morning, weekend, holiday activities
be considered potentially as warm, wonderful and educational as those marked
"school"?
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
set a timer for 90 minutes every day, usually mornings and I will not answer
the phone...>>
I have three questions for you to consider as you continue your journey
toward unschooling. We don't need the answers, but you might.
#1 What if a phone call was an invitation to go somewhere REALLY WONDERFUL?
Or someone saying someone you know was about to be on TV, or a talk show was
about to be about unschooling?
What if the phone call were someone needing emergency automotive help two
blocks away from you? That would be more educational than just about any 90
minute home-stuff.
#2 Might it have been more useful to play a five hour game all in one day
than to stretch a five hour game over five days? (And it might have been
only a four hour game, too, without the prep and review each day.)
#3 Will the afternoon, evening, early morning, weekend, holiday activities
be considered potentially as warm, wonderful and educational as those marked
"school"?
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
another Philosypher
<<This seems to be meeting both our needs at this
It's been a 4 year struggle for us and I'm still not
sure if we've got it figured out.
Although I have to ask, are you sure you want to be on
the unschooling list? Unschooling is not the same as
homeschooling. Announcing that you are now 'doing
school' might catch a lot of flak from an unschooling
email list because unschooling really means not doing
school at all.
Now I don't consider my family as unschoolers, but I
love this list anyway. It helps me as a mother to
remember to relax. Our family balance is so much
smoother when I read this list and unschooling.com.
Joy in NM
--- Sherry Hagen <oilmagic@...> wrote:
Learn from others, but go to your own school
Joy in NM
Homeschooling mom of two
Michael Alexander 16 yo
Kenna Rose 13 yo
Married 17 years to Scott
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com
> time.>>I'm glad you have found the balance for your family.
It's been a 4 year struggle for us and I'm still not
sure if we've got it figured out.
Although I have to ask, are you sure you want to be on
the unschooling list? Unschooling is not the same as
homeschooling. Announcing that you are now 'doing
school' might catch a lot of flak from an unschooling
email list because unschooling really means not doing
school at all.
Now I don't consider my family as unschoolers, but I
love this list anyway. It helps me as a mother to
remember to relax. Our family balance is so much
smoother when I read this list and unschooling.com.
Joy in NM
--- Sherry Hagen <oilmagic@...> wrote:
> Hi Folks,=====
>
> Well our "school" has begun. Basically that means
> my 7 year old son and I
> set a timer for 90 minutes every day, usually
> mornings and I will not answer
> the phone, do dishes, laundry and other household or
> business chores. My
> son cannot play computer games, watch TV or do other
> activities he would do
> "independently." It's been a great first few days.
> We played "Star Wars
> Monopoly" for a total of 5 hours across several
> days. Great for math and
> life skills. He's in charge of the bank. He won by
> the way. We also did a
> Science experiment. We are currently playing
> Scrabble Junior. I enter what
> ever we're doing in a teacher planner and apply it
> to that subject. We take
> turns making suggestions on what to do in the 90
> minutes set aside for us to
> do "school" together. 30 minutes are also set aside
> for him to do those
> more independent activities as well, I usually do my
> own thing then as well.
> In the afternoon we do our outings, swimming,
> volunteering at the animal
> shelter, grocery shopping. This morning we have a
> tour of a cheeps factory.
>
> This seems to be meeting both our needs at this
> time.
>
> Blessings and Success,
> Sherry
>
>
Learn from others, but go to your own school
Joy in NM
Homeschooling mom of two
Michael Alexander 16 yo
Kenna Rose 13 yo
Married 17 years to Scott
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com
Bridget E Coffman
Do you mean the place that makes these??? I wanna go too!!!!!
http://www.learnlink.emory.edu/peep/
Bridget
On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 08:58:31 EDT marbleface@... writes:
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat
http://www.learnlink.emory.edu/peep/
Bridget
On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 08:58:31 EDT marbleface@... writes:
> In a message dated 9/7/2001 8:56:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
> oilmagic@...
> writes:
>
>
> > This morning we have a tour of a cheeps factory.
> >
>
> This could be trouble!! :)
>
> Nance
>
>
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/7/2001 7:06:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< << Well our "school" has begun. Basically that means my 7 year old son
and I
set a timer for 90 minutes every day, usually mornings and I will not answer
the phone...>>
I have three questions for you to consider as you continue your journey
toward unschooling. We don't need the answers, but you might.
#1 What if a phone call was an invitation to go somewhere REALLY WONDERFUL?
Or someone saying someone you know was about to be on TV, or a talk show was
about to be about unschooling?
What if the phone call were someone needing emergency automotive help two
blocks away from you? That would be more educational than just about any 90
minute home-stuff.
screening out unwanted calls. Same thing could happen while one is out of
the house.
Jenny
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< << Well our "school" has begun. Basically that means my 7 year old son
and I
set a timer for 90 minutes every day, usually mornings and I will not answer
the phone...>>
I have three questions for you to consider as you continue your journey
toward unschooling. We don't need the answers, but you might.
#1 What if a phone call was an invitation to go somewhere REALLY WONDERFUL?
Or someone saying someone you know was about to be on TV, or a talk show was
about to be about unschooling?
What if the phone call were someone needing emergency automotive help two
blocks away from you? That would be more educational than just about any 90
minute home-stuff.
>>There is this invention called the answering machine. It is very useful in
screening out unwanted calls. Same thing could happen while one is out of
the house.
Jenny
[email protected]
<< There is this invention called the answering machine. It is very useful
in
screening out unwanted calls. Same thing could happen while one is out of
the house. >>
That seemed a sarcastic response to an honest and purposeful question.
If I have had a blowout, I don't leave anybody a message. I call around
until I find someone who can come and get me then.
If I'm about to leave for a day at the zoo and we call Holly's friend to see
if she wants to go with us, leaving a message would be a cruel way to let her
know what she missed, if they come in from the store a half an hour later.
I want to be available to my friends and relatives more than I want freedom
from answering a call. Many of my own morning calls are from moms
desperately looking for homeschooling information. If they don't talk to me,
they could easily end up talking to some curriculum salesman.
It's worth considering the question, isn't it?
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
in
screening out unwanted calls. Same thing could happen while one is out of
the house. >>
That seemed a sarcastic response to an honest and purposeful question.
If I have had a blowout, I don't leave anybody a message. I call around
until I find someone who can come and get me then.
If I'm about to leave for a day at the zoo and we call Holly's friend to see
if she wants to go with us, leaving a message would be a cruel way to let her
know what she missed, if they come in from the store a half an hour later.
I want to be available to my friends and relatives more than I want freedom
from answering a call. Many of my own morning calls are from moms
desperately looking for homeschooling information. If they don't talk to me,
they could easily end up talking to some curriculum salesman.
It's worth considering the question, isn't it?
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Sherry Hagen
Hi Sandra,
If anything happens that we want to do instead we simply stop the timer and
go do it. We also just screen our phone calls. I find unless we set up a
specific time to be together and do things we just don't always get around
to doing things together.
Sherry
If anything happens that we want to do instead we simply stop the timer and
go do it. We also just screen our phone calls. I find unless we set up a
specific time to be together and do things we just don't always get around
to doing things together.
Sherry
Bonni Sollars
what is a cheeps factory?
Bonni
Bonni
M and L Hand
I think you (Sandra and Joy and who knows what others) are being very rude to others who like a bit of guidance in their day. If Sherry and I want to have a time where we can tell our kids "no junk TV, we will do something constructive", you have no right to tell us we are wrong.
However, I have already unsubbed due to you snobbery. And Sherry, if you are a Christian, I invite you to join CCU-list at yahoo groups. The ladies there are supportive and won't slam you over your individual way to unschool however you want to.
These ladies here are for the most part intolerant of anything short of letting the kids run the house.
Laurie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
However, I have already unsubbed due to you snobbery. And Sherry, if you are a Christian, I invite you to join CCU-list at yahoo groups. The ladies there are supportive and won't slam you over your individual way to unschool however you want to.
These ladies here are for the most part intolerant of anything short of letting the kids run the house.
Laurie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/7/01 2:55:24 PM, mandlhand@... writes:
<< I think you (Sandra and Joy and who knows what others) are being very rude
to others who like a bit of guidance in their day. If Sherry and I want to
have a time where we can tell our kids "no junk TV, we will do something
constructive", you have no right to tell us we are wrong. >>
We were requesting that people rethink concepts like "junk," "constructive"
and "wrong" so that unschooling can work.
<<However, I have already unsubbed due to you snobbery. >>
Oh. And that people be honest. Someone unsubbed can't post.
<<These ladies here are for the most part intolerant of anything short of
letting the kids run the house. >>
My kids don't run the house, but they have lots of options and I don't tell
them their interests are junk or that things they do without me aren't
constructive.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< I think you (Sandra and Joy and who knows what others) are being very rude
to others who like a bit of guidance in their day. If Sherry and I want to
have a time where we can tell our kids "no junk TV, we will do something
constructive", you have no right to tell us we are wrong. >>
We were requesting that people rethink concepts like "junk," "constructive"
and "wrong" so that unschooling can work.
<<However, I have already unsubbed due to you snobbery. >>
Oh. And that people be honest. Someone unsubbed can't post.
<<These ladies here are for the most part intolerant of anything short of
letting the kids run the house. >>
My kids don't run the house, but they have lots of options and I don't tell
them their interests are junk or that things they do without me aren't
constructive.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Bridget E Coffman
On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 12:18:11 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
We do answer our phone but we have caller ID so we can screen out someof
the unwanted intrusions.
Bridget
~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat
> That seemed a sarcastic response to an honest and purposefulI kind of thought that too.
> question.
>
We do answer our phone but we have caller ID so we can screen out someof
the unwanted intrusions.
Bridget
~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat
M and L Hand
Well, apparently people who have unsubbed CAN post - I got the unsub confirm message, but I'm guessing it takes awhile to take effect, since I'm still receiving all the posts. Either that, or the system is broken.
Laurie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laurie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tami Labig-Duquette
Laurie,
you are still in the members list, maybe you didn't unsub right?
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
~Ghandi
Try out this fun site!
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=angel1bunny
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
you are still in the members list, maybe you didn't unsub right?
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
~Ghandi
Try out this fun site!
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=angel1bunny
>From: "M and L Hand" <mandlhand@...>_________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Structure
>Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 13:54:43 +1000
>
>Well, apparently people who have unsubbed CAN post - I got the unsub
>confirm message, but I'm guessing it takes awhile to take effect, since I'm
>still receiving all the posts. Either that, or the system is broken.
>Laurie
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
zenmomma *
<< to try to apply a "one size fits all" method of parenting or education to
a child would exhibit, in my opinion, a complete disregard for that child's
individual neurological needs. >>
to kids who crave structure would be? I try to keep my mind thinking in
those terms, although do admit to sometimes going back to what I'm familiar
with in times of stress. <g>
If we had no concept of school-type lessons, then how would we approach the
structure situation?
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
a child would exhibit, in my opinion, a complete disregard for that child's
individual neurological needs. >>
>>As far as I know, there is no brain chemistry or personality which needsIf school as we know it had never been invented, I wonder what our response
>>or would benefit most from the assembly-line-style school-at-home
>>curriculum. Nobody's individual neurology needs that.>>
to kids who crave structure would be? I try to keep my mind thinking in
those terms, although do admit to sometimes going back to what I'm familiar
with in times of stress. <g>
If we had no concept of school-type lessons, then how would we approach the
structure situation?
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
[email protected]
Last night Holly said she wanted a schedule. I asked "Like what?" (She's
ten.)
She said like a list of five things that need to be done by a certain time
each day.
I asked if she was wanting me to come up with these things or if she was
going to. She said she would, but she wanted me to help remind her to do
them.
I seriously doubt these are going to be academic things, but I'll let you
know.
If she had said "I want YOU to come up with them," I would have said no.
If she pressed (or if she presses me to help her) my best recommendations
would have to be watering plants, cleaning up around the TV/VCR/Playstation,
making her bed... stuff like that.
I don't even know if she'll remember today.
Sandra
ten.)
She said like a list of five things that need to be done by a certain time
each day.
I asked if she was wanting me to come up with these things or if she was
going to. She said she would, but she wanted me to help remind her to do
them.
I seriously doubt these are going to be academic things, but I'll let you
know.
If she had said "I want YOU to come up with them," I would have said no.
If she pressed (or if she presses me to help her) my best recommendations
would have to be watering plants, cleaning up around the TV/VCR/Playstation,
making her bed... stuff like that.
I don't even know if she'll remember today.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/24/2003 8:18:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
for her. Structure doesn't always need to be top down.
Tia
********************
Julian decided at one point that he wanted more structured, "academic" time.
Finally he scheduled several times during the week that he called "study
halls" when he did some sort of academic-y stuff. At first he was very structured
about that, with certain days being certain subject areas. Eventually he
settled into just using that time to read something he was interested in or do
something, not worrying about the "subject."
My role in this was (and maybe will be again) to put his study halls in my
calendar and remind him when he'd scheduled one. Sometimes he'd ask me to
suggest a book I thought he'd like. That's it.
He's taking a course right now at a college that's a lot of work, and he's
let go of the other structured stuff for now. He may go back to it. Might not.
A very good unschooling friend of mine with a bunch of kids, including some a
lot older than Julian, told me that wanting to do more "academic-y" stuff
seemed to click in for her kids at about 14, and that I had permission not to
even think about it, much less worry about it, until then. (She was not
suggesting that if it didn't that I should then worry about it. Merely giving me an
excuse not to worry about it for a while.) It clicked in earlier than that, and
by then I had realized that he didn't have to be doing structured academic
stuff for him to be learning tons.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
>Or maybe she just needs help to develop her own structure, one that works
> As for your daughter, if she wants more structure, why not? you're
> still following her lead and wishes. It may be something she needs.
> Structure doesn't have to mean buying a curriculum but maybe more
> worksheets or a set time to sit down and do things?
for her. Structure doesn't always need to be top down.
Tia
********************
Julian decided at one point that he wanted more structured, "academic" time.
Finally he scheduled several times during the week that he called "study
halls" when he did some sort of academic-y stuff. At first he was very structured
about that, with certain days being certain subject areas. Eventually he
settled into just using that time to read something he was interested in or do
something, not worrying about the "subject."
My role in this was (and maybe will be again) to put his study halls in my
calendar and remind him when he'd scheduled one. Sometimes he'd ask me to
suggest a book I thought he'd like. That's it.
He's taking a course right now at a college that's a lot of work, and he's
let go of the other structured stuff for now. He may go back to it. Might not.
A very good unschooling friend of mine with a bunch of kids, including some a
lot older than Julian, told me that wanting to do more "academic-y" stuff
seemed to click in for her kids at about 14, and that I had permission not to
even think about it, much less worry about it, until then. (She was not
suggesting that if it didn't that I should then worry about it. Merely giving me an
excuse not to worry about it for a while.) It clicked in earlier than that, and
by then I had realized that he didn't have to be doing structured academic
stuff for him to be learning tons.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]