consequences, lack of punishments, kid-view
[email protected]
(I don't remember what the original topic name was, but this was saved on my
desktop by my husband in a note file, and so I hope it's not a duplicate.)
<<But, I still am at a loss for what ( if any) consequence is natural for
breaking the
controller out of anger.>>
"Natural consequences" means natural.
Not what parents decide is natural.
<<If he continually deals with frustration in an aggressive and destructive
manner without
consequence, what will be the "thing" that helps him begin to control his
temper? >>
The thing that causes ANYONE to control himself is understanding. Not fear
of punishment. Fear of punishment makes people sneaky, and makes them lie,
and makes them yearn for the day when they leave that house and do exactly
the opposite of what they were forced to do, or forbidden to do.
Holly told us about a conversation late at a New Year's Eve party. Somehow
it had come up that she never got punished at home, but that she was truthful
with her mom. One of the girls looked at her with big eyes (as Holly acted
it out) and said, "But if she doesn't punish you, you could lie a LOT!"
Holly said, "Why would I?"
So the little girl seemed to think that the reason she didn't lie was fear of
punishment. Holly saw it altogether as the lying itself being the result of
the punishments. She's eleven years old. And very truthful!
The natural consequence of lying is people don't like you or trust you as
much. Any other consequences are UNnatural and created, and "consequences"
which are imposed by parents are just punishments.
Sandra
desktop by my husband in a note file, and so I hope it's not a duplicate.)
<<But, I still am at a loss for what ( if any) consequence is natural for
breaking the
controller out of anger.>>
"Natural consequences" means natural.
Not what parents decide is natural.
<<If he continually deals with frustration in an aggressive and destructive
manner without
consequence, what will be the "thing" that helps him begin to control his
temper? >>
The thing that causes ANYONE to control himself is understanding. Not fear
of punishment. Fear of punishment makes people sneaky, and makes them lie,
and makes them yearn for the day when they leave that house and do exactly
the opposite of what they were forced to do, or forbidden to do.
Holly told us about a conversation late at a New Year's Eve party. Somehow
it had come up that she never got punished at home, but that she was truthful
with her mom. One of the girls looked at her with big eyes (as Holly acted
it out) and said, "But if she doesn't punish you, you could lie a LOT!"
Holly said, "Why would I?"
So the little girl seemed to think that the reason she didn't lie was fear of
punishment. Holly saw it altogether as the lying itself being the result of
the punishments. She's eleven years old. And very truthful!
The natural consequence of lying is people don't like you or trust you as
much. Any other consequences are UNnatural and created, and "consequences"
which are imposed by parents are just punishments.
Sandra
Have a Nice Day!
I had to respond to this because just recently I've been experimenting with "no restrictions" at our house. If I've already posted here about this I apologize. I may have cross posted.
I have given my kids total freedom for the past 3 weeks or so. I must say...they talk to me MORE now than they ever have. (And I thought they talked a lot before!)
I have learned about some scary things, but I also think I am having some influence...and not just on MY Kids, but on their newer friends too. The friends all look at me, and then look at my kids like "is she for REAL?".
Within a week, our house became the "hangout".
It is scary hearing about some of what they've been up to, but I've decided the only way to stop them is to lock them in a closet. The only other way to stop them is to have influence....by being trustworthy...and gaining their respect.
It really is "either or".
I have had to clarify though that lack of punishment does not mean I "approve" or I "condone" or I "don't care what they do".
Kristen
I have given my kids total freedom for the past 3 weeks or so. I must say...they talk to me MORE now than they ever have. (And I thought they talked a lot before!)
I have learned about some scary things, but I also think I am having some influence...and not just on MY Kids, but on their newer friends too. The friends all look at me, and then look at my kids like "is she for REAL?".
Within a week, our house became the "hangout".
It is scary hearing about some of what they've been up to, but I've decided the only way to stop them is to lock them in a closet. The only other way to stop them is to have influence....by being trustworthy...and gaining their respect.
It really is "either or".
I have had to clarify though that lack of punishment does not mean I "approve" or I "condone" or I "don't care what they do".
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 2:49 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] consequences, lack of punishments, kid-view
(I don't remember what the original topic name was, but this was saved on my
desktop by my husband in a note file, and so I hope it's not a duplicate.)
<<But, I still am at a loss for what ( if any) consequence is natural for
breaking the
controller out of anger.>>
"Natural consequences" means natural.
Not what parents decide is natural.
<<If he continually deals with frustration in an aggressive and destructive
manner without
consequence, what will be the "thing" that helps him begin to control his
temper? >>
The thing that causes ANYONE to control himself is understanding. Not fear
of punishment. Fear of punishment makes people sneaky, and makes them lie,
and makes them yearn for the day when they leave that house and do exactly
the opposite of what they were forced to do, or forbidden to do.
Holly told us about a conversation late at a New Year's Eve party. Somehow
it had come up that she never got punished at home, but that she was truthful
with her mom. One of the girls looked at her with big eyes (as Holly acted
it out) and said, "But if she doesn't punish you, you could lie a LOT!"
Holly said, "Why would I?"
So the little girl seemed to think that the reason she didn't lie was fear of
punishment. Holly saw it altogether as the lying itself being the result of
the punishments. She's eleven years old. And very truthful!
The natural consequence of lying is people don't like you or trust you as
much. Any other consequences are UNnatural and created, and "consequences"
which are imposed by parents are just punishments.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/6/2003 2:51:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
have things taken away from them for various "transgressions". They can't
believe that Cam wouldn't lie or that we wouldn't punish. They figure he can
get away with anything (which basically he CAN <g>). But he doesn't---or if
he does, he tells us, and we talk about it.
Most of the kids can't imagine talking with their parents about ANYthing.
Oddly, they don't mind talking to me! <g>
It seems mostly like simply a control issue. The kids aren't doing anything
really bad---or at least nothing the parents didn't do themselves when they
were teens...<g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> it had come up that she never got punished at home, but that she wasWe get this a lot. ALL of Cameron's friends are punished and grounded and
> truthful
> with her mom. One of the girls looked at her with big eyes (as Holly acted
>
> it out) and said, "But if she doesn't punish you, you could lie a LOT!"
>
have things taken away from them for various "transgressions". They can't
believe that Cam wouldn't lie or that we wouldn't punish. They figure he can
get away with anything (which basically he CAN <g>). But he doesn't---or if
he does, he tells us, and we talk about it.
Most of the kids can't imagine talking with their parents about ANYthing.
Oddly, they don't mind talking to me! <g>
It seems mostly like simply a control issue. The kids aren't doing anything
really bad---or at least nothing the parents didn't do themselves when they
were teens...<g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]