[email protected]

Folks want to talk about interesting things we've done lately.. That sounds
great to me ..

Well, aside from obsessing over Sandras posts and not spending any time with
my children as Sandra so politely pointed out.

<Making a hobby of obsessing about what I post will take time away from
things you could be doing with your kids.>

Which is just another prime example of insulting, accusing and judging.
Folks really prove themselves without me having to obsess over pointing it
out.

OK..contrary to what some folks want to imply, my family had a wonderful day
together yesterday. Dh and Ethan got up around 6am to go meet BIL to go to
this house on the lake that my SIL boss GAVE them.. YEAH.. she works for a
couple of doctors ( husband and wife) and they bought a house on the lake
that they decided they didnt want.. They were going to just have it
demolished and rebuild on the lot, but they "gave" the house to my b and
sil... They couldnt move it.. it was partially underground.. but they have
been taking every possible item/material out of it that they can.. They
offered us to come get anything we wanted too. We figured this was an older
ranch style home with little salvagable.. But, OH NO. it was HUGE,
immacualte, stucco home with top of the line fixtures and construction. It
is just blowing our mind that folks are going to TEAR DOWN a perfectly good,
actually wonderful home. This home would probably sell for over 200K!!
Anyway, we've been so fortunate to get out light fixtures, garage doors,
molding, sinks, vanities, mirrors. ceiling fans..ect. What I REALLY want is
the outdoor jacuzzi spa!!. But, its in the ground and we dont ahve the
equipment to dig it up and move it. These folks also had a huge garden tub
whirlpool in thier house. Its so big, we dont have anywhere in our house to
put it. OK.. so.. ( I know, a bit of background there.. lol) Dh and Ethan
went back to the house yesterday to get some more goodies. Ethan ws SOO
excited to be going with Daddy to be helping out. Anna was spending the
night with my folks. Me, JP and Landon all slept late. Well, I got up
before the boys and did my post obsessing while they were still asleep.
When JP got up, he wanted to play XBOX. That posed a problem, which I would
appreciate some feedback/suggestions on. Ethan got mad at his game the day
before, he often loses his temper in frustration.. He threw the controller
down and broke it. So, whats the natural consequnce to that? I told Ethan
he would ahve to buy another controller .. That seems appropiate to me. But
in the mean time, what about the rest of the family??? Now JP ( or anyone
else for that matter) cant play XBOX either. I really dont have the $30 to
buy another controller.. If I DO scrape up the $$, then what? dont let Ethan
play with it til he buys another one? Or should I make everyone suffer til
Ethan comes up with the $$ to buy a new one.??? Of course JP was upset that
the controller was broken and he threw a fit of his own. Screaming and
kicking and generally being enraged because the controller was broken. I
finally got him calmed down and told him we would go buy groceries and go get
some lunch. Landon got up and he wanted to go with us.. He was washing his
clothes, so we waited on him to finish his laundry. JP and I played Army
men and Nintendo while Landons clothes dried. Landon washed the dishes and
cleaned the kitchen. I folded some laundry that Landon brought up out of the
dryer. I picked up some toys off the landing at the top of our stairs. JP
rode his bike. I called Anna and checked in with her to see what she was
going to do. My Mom was going up to my Grandparents ( I could interject
another long background story here.. but I wont. :-) ) She said she could
drop Anna off on her way, or Anna could stay with Grandpa. I told her we
were getting ready to leave, but either way was fine with me, whatever Anna
wanted to do. Just as we were leaving, Dh and Ethan got home from their
adventure. Ethan was so excited to show me all the stuff they got ( GREAT
stuff too) Then, Landon, JP and I left to run our errands. We decided to
eat at Pizza Hut... Landon kicked in $5 because he has more $$ than I do..
LOL. My budget was more like Taco Bell, but they really wanted Pizza Hut, so
Landon offered to help pay.. The pizza was great, after dinner we went over
to Big Lots to let JP spend a couple of dollars. JP wanted a Harry Potter
play set that was $12.. I couldnt swing it.. He threw another tantrum in the
store. I told him he could chose something else, or we would have to leave.
After much persuasion, he chose a micro machine set that was $3.. That was
within my budget, so we were both happy and we made the purchase. Then onto
the grocery store. We got our groceries and headed on home.. I stopped at
the video store and we got a DVD to watch that night. We got home @ 4.. And
JP had a wonderful surprise!! ( another background fill in)
I had bought him a viewmaster projector for Christmas and he only had 6
reels to look at. I had joined a Viewmaster group on yahoo and posted a note
that i was looking for a good source for VM reels for my 7yo. A wondeful
fella emailed me and offered to send JP some duplicate reels that he had on
hand. I accepted graciously and offered to pay him for them.. He said. no
no. they are just collecting dust, Ill be glad to give them to him.. I asked
him to address the package to Jon Phillip because I knew he would love to get
some mail So.. when we got home the package was there. I hadnt told JP
about the reels. I expected there to be a dozen or so reels.. The fella has
sent close to 100!.. ALL kinds.. cartoons, history, places and people,
EVERYTHING.. I was so ecstatic.. And was JP. He was thrilled.. I was so
touched by the kindness and generosity of this "stranger" JP is going to
write him a thank you note and mail it. I am constantly inspired by the
genuine goodness of folks. That was really the highlight of our day. We
didnt get a chance to look at the reels, as JP only has the projector and we
didnt get it out last night. I am getting him a regular viewer VM ASAP.
Another VM enthusiast has the older black models for sale for $2.00 each..
Thats next on my list for Paypal.. :-) After the view master excitement, I
called Anna and told her that we were thinking about going to the matinee at
4:30 to see TT. I knew she really wanted to see it. She said that Grandma
had already left and that she was going to spend the night with my sister (
who lives next door to my folks) and babysit my nieces. I offered to come
get her, but she said it was OK.. we would go see the movie again later.
So, we loaded up and headed to the theater. This was Landons 3rd time seeing
the movie! First time for the rest of us. We throughly enjoyed it. When
it was over.. JP said.. "that wasnt what I was expecting, it didnt seem like
3 hours to me" I think he expected to get sleepy and bored.. lol.. but he
didnt, he watched the whole movie intently . Well, with the aid of some candy
and drink...lol. After the movie, we came home and made ourselves some
supper. Landon made a frozen pizza for himself and JP Ethan, Dh and I ate a
rotisseire cooked pork loin that I bought on sale at the grocery store.... Dh
had to go to the hardware store to get some more propane for our heater. I
got back online to do some more obsessing. When Dh got back, I made some
ginger bread cookies ( refrigerated dough, not homemade.. lol) We had
coffee, milk and cookies and put the DVD in.. It was Snatch, and Landon had
heard it was really good. The little boys were playing Mario Kart
contendedtly , til we put the movie in, ( of course) We werent sure if the
content was appropiate for them, so we kept delaying and delaying starting
the movie til they occupied with playing again.. FINALLY, they wandered out
and started playing again.. And I watched Snatch while Dh worked on a bike (
he collects and restores vintage bikes) and Landon chatted online with his
buds ( our PC is in our bedroom, as is our DVD player).. The movie was GREAT.
I LOVE LOVE Beniccio Del Toro.. :-) The movie was actually fine for the
boys to watch. A lot of the F word, a lot of shooting and killing, a few
glimpses topless women.. but all in all, nothing theyve not seen before. I
mostly dont want them to see explicit sexual content or anything too
"scary".. Sometime yesterday, they watched a bit of "Freddy Krueger" on TV
and neither of them could go to sleep. ( or take a shower, or go downstairs
by themselves) JP slept with us last nigh because of Freddy.. After Landon
finally got offline around midnight.. I got on and did some more obsessing..
G ( my husbands name is Gralyn, and I call him G on all my other groups.. so,
Dh is harder for me to use.. So, I'll just use G) Anyway, G finished working
on his bike, then we went to bed. Its 11:00 now, I got up around 10 (started
obsessing) G is gone to church( he plays the organ) JP is watching TV in
bed,Landon is still in bed and Ethan is playing Nintendo.. G is going back to
"the house" today after lunch and I think we are all going today.. We have to
borrow my Dads truck to get some more stuff. We will pick Anna up when we
get the truck.. JP is really excited about going the "the house" today. I
need to get downstairs and get some lunch ready. OH.. JP just threw
something down the stairs.. !!

Teresa



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 9:24:43 AM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< Well, aside from obsessing over Sandras posts and not spending any time
with
my children as Sandra so politely pointed out. >>

THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID.

If you're going to insult me, at least get it right.
You could read more carefully, or you could just stop reading my posts.
Either would be better than glossing over, making up whatever you want, and
then LIVING THERE.

<< Ethan got mad at his game the day
before, he often loses his temper in frustration.. He threw the controller
down and broke it. So, whats the natural consequnce to that? I told Ethan
he would ahve to buy another controller .. That seems appropiate to me. But
in the mean time, what about the rest of the family???>>

When that has happened here (twice) I bought another controller and earned
$30 worth of reminding them to find something else to do if they got angry.

Making people wait for a kid to earn $30 just adds to the anger in the house,
and adds to frustration. I don't think it's productive, and my kids are
REALLY good with their stuff overall. They still have every piece of Lego
they ever owned, and we have operational gaming systems back to original
Nintendo, with more than one controller operational for all systems, and some
have four. Some were bought by kids, some by us, some were gifts... but
they DO take care of things and so one or two little rages when they were
little are a tiny percentage of the gaming experience.

$30 is only about a third of the cost of a trip to a child psychologist, less
than a visit to an emergency room. Most people don't consider remotes even
nearly as important, but if you consider it peace, safety and mental health,
maybe it's a cheap $30.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 12:15:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID.
>
> If you're going to insult me, at least get it right.
> You could read more carefully, or you could just stop reading my posts.
> Either would be better than glossing over, making up whatever you want, and
>
> then LIVING THERE.
>

I copied and pasted exactly what you said in that post. Here is its again..

<Making a hobby of obsessing about what I post will take time away from
things
you could be doing with your kids.>

Maybe its open for interpretation, but then again, what isn't?

Teresa




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

Talk about unschooling.

Not the list. Not the people on the list.

Unschooling.

Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator

Tia Leschke

> I copied and pasted exactly what you said in that post. Here is its
again..
>
> <Making a hobby of obsessing about what I post will take time away from
> things
> you could be doing with your kids.>
>
> Maybe its open for interpretation, but then again, what isn't?

"Well, aside from obsessing over Sandras posts and not spending any time
with
my children as Sandra so politely pointed out."

Do you really not see the difference between those two quotes, Teresa?
You don't like the way Sandra posts. Is it really that hard to just skip
them?
I enjoyed reading about your day.
Tia

Tia Leschke

> Talk about unschooling.
>
> Not the list. Not the people on the list.
>
> Unschooling.

Sorry Joyce. Mine was being sent off as this one came in. I asked a
question which does not need to be answered.
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 10:34:05 AM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< I copied and pasted exactly what you said in that post. Here is its
again..

<Making a hobby of obsessing about what I post will take time away from
things you could be doing with your kids.> >>

There is not a reasonable interpretation that will change that to this:

"Well, aside from obsessing over Sandras posts and not spending any time with
my children as Sandra so politely pointed out."

I have no idea how much time you spend with your kids. Probably LOTS. But
any moment you spend harrassing me and this list could be better spent with
your children. That is my point.

Choosing to do something useful with your time, like discussing unschooling,
seems good and productive.

Choosing to spend your energy bugging ME does not seem good or productive.

You're new to unschooling. Read about it and ask good questions about it and
stop picking on me.

Sandra

nellebelle

Re: to buy or not to buy the $30 controller:

I read your post with interest, bc I struggle with the issue of when to buy things for my kids with my money and when to have them use their own money.

However, you (as in you and your kids) did decide to spend money that day on purchasing a pizza and some toys. That money could have been used towards a new controller. Just a thought.

Mary Ellen
----- Original Message ----- I really dont have the $30 to
buy another controller..


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Isn't there a way for individuals to "ignore" other list members? Is there
something in an email program that you can set to auto delete certain email
addresses?
If anyone knows how, PLEASE share it here so that everybody could just get
over it?!?!?! Now I have TWO email lists with that same people arguing about
the same people.
Ridiculous.
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jim Selvage

I was reading this messages to my husband and son( who is in the midst of
playing Metroid Prime), and he has two questions for the child who thru the
controller. What game was he playing, and what system was he using, lol?
Both husband and son agreed that the parents should just replace the
controller, after all, if we had done such a thing in a fit of anger,
wouldn't we want someone else to help us out. My son also commented that he
has done the throwing the controller down thing before, but figured out it
didn't help much, except to relieve his frustration!

Just thought I would add our two cents, lol. Your mileage may vary!
blessings,
erin
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Interesting things..


>
> In a message dated 1/5/03 9:24:43 AM, grlynbl@... writes:
>
> << Well, aside from obsessing over Sandras posts and not spending any time
> with
> my children as Sandra so politely pointed out. >>
>
> THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID.
>
> If you're going to insult me, at least get it right.
> You could read more carefully, or you could just stop reading my posts.
> Either would be better than glossing over, making up whatever you want,
and
> then LIVING THERE.
>
> << Ethan got mad at his game the day
> before, he often loses his temper in frustration.. He threw the controller
> down and broke it. So, whats the natural consequnce to that? I told
Ethan
> he would ahve to buy another controller .. That seems appropiate to me.
But
> in the mean time, what about the rest of the family???>>
>
> When that has happened here (twice) I bought another controller and earned
> $30 worth of reminding them to find something else to do if they got
angry.
>
> Making people wait for a kid to earn $30 just adds to the anger in the
house,
> and adds to frustration. I don't think it's productive, and my kids are
> REALLY good with their stuff overall. They still have every piece of Lego
> they ever owned, and we have operational gaming systems back to original
> Nintendo, with more than one controller operational for all systems, and
some
> have four. Some were bought by kids, some by us, some were gifts... but
> they DO take care of things and so one or two little rages when they were
> little are a tiny percentage of the gaming experience.
>
> $30 is only about a third of the cost of a trip to a child psychologist,
less
> than a visit to an emergency room. Most people don't consider remotes
even
> nearly as important, but if you consider it peace, safety and mental
health,
> maybe it's a cheap $30.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 11:24:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, grlynbl@...
writes:

> Ethan got mad at his game the day
> before, he often loses his temper in frustration.. He threw the controller
> down and broke it. So, whats the natural consequnce to that? I told
> Ethan
> he would ahve to buy another controller .. That seems appropiate to me.
> But
> in the mean time, what about the rest of the family???

It has happened here at least twice. My boys are young 5 and 8. I buy the
new controller. Although the broken controller was not from frustration from
the game but by accident.

In your situation I would buy the new controller and if I didn't have the
money we would sit down and decide how important it is. Do we want to wait
until mom and dad have the extra money for the controller or, because it is a
game the family uses, do we all want to pitch in what we can to get a new one
sooner?

I would probably talk with my son about why he lost his temper and maybe
brainstorm about other ways to handle the situation without breaking
anything. etc. etc.

I know I have broken things before by accident and because of frustration and
I have gone out and replaced the item with family money. I say family money
because I do not hold a paying job. My husband brings money into the
household. My husband has also broken things. I would not think about
"punishing" him or myself and so I do not punish my children either.
Although you were probably not thinking that way.

I would just remind him, when things look heated, about what happened.

Not sure my thoughts came out clear written down. LOL.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 12:51:47 PM, nellebelle@... writes:

<< However, you (as in you and your kids) did decide to spend money that day
on purchasing a pizza and some toys. That money could have been used towards
a new controller. Just a thought. >>

My husband was sitting with me when that post came in and he said "Say a
controller is cheaper than movies and snacks, and it lasts longer! " I
thought I had already said enough, but when he gets home and says "Did you
say that?" I can say "Yeah" now.

Fetteroll

on 1/5/03 3:11 PM, Earthmomma67@... at Earthmomma67@... wrote:

> Isn't there a way for individuals to "ignore" other list members? Is there
> something in an email program that you can set to auto delete certain email
> addresses?
> If anyone knows how, PLEASE share it here

On Outlook Express for the Mac (which probably applies to other OE's) the
filter is under Tools.

Click on an email from the person you don't want to read to highlight it.
(Or open it. Works either way.)

Under Tools, choose Rules. A window with a bunch of tabs should appear.
Choose the Mail tab if it isn't already chosen.

Click on New in the Mail Rules window. Give the rule a name like "Send
annoying people to trash". Under IF, pull down the menu that probably says
"All messages" and choose "From". (Don't choose the menu next to Execute
actions.) That should fill in the email address from the email you chose.

Then under THEN, pull down the menu and choose "Move message". Then pull
down the menu next to it and choose either "Delete items" or "Choose folder"
to navigate to the delete folder. Then click OK.

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 1:55:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, leschke@...
writes:

> I enjoyed reading about your day.
> Tia
>

Thanks Tia.. Do you have any suggestions on the "xbox controller" issue? I
think there does need to be some kind of consequence for Ethan's actions. I
feel like if I go right out and buy a new controller and let him use it..
then he wont have any reason to try to curb his temper the next time he feels
like throwing the controller down. I really do want some more feedback on
this. (not obsessing, just pointing out).. Sandra responded that NOT
replacing the controller could do more harm, I do agree to a certain extent
, but I that stilll doesnt help me show Ethan how his dealing with
frustration this way is inapprppiate and has some consequence. If it was
just HIS toy, then he broke his toy, he doesnt have his toy any more..
natural consequence.. But this was a "family" item.. Its a tough one..

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 2:51:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
nellebelle@... writes:

> However, you (as in you and your kids) did decide to spend money that day on
> purchasing a pizza and some toys. That money could have been used towards
> a new controller. Just a thought.
>
>

Yeah, I thought about that too.. I spent about $12 on pizza and the toy.. But
that WAS $12 that could have went towards the controller. But, I still am
at a loss for what ( if any) consequence is natural for breaking the
controller out of anger.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 3:16:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, jselvage@...
writes:

> What game was he playing, and what system was he using, lol?

He was playing Sega GT 2000 racing game on XBOX. (that he just got for
Christmas)

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 3:27:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, genant2@...
writes:

> Not sure my thoughts came out clear written down. LOL.
> Pam G.
>

Pam, your thoughts were very clear. I do agree, if it was an accident, it
wouldnt really be an "issue" ( well, except for $$) And, also, Ethan is 11..
I want him to understand how his actions DO have consequences. They affect
him, and they affect all of us. I think if he were younger, I wouldnt
expect him to have as much control over his frustration. If he continually
deals with frustration in an aggressive and destructive manner without
consequence, what will be the "thing" that helps him begin to control his
temper? I guess I am just wondering how many controllers I am in for.. LOL

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 2:43:10 PM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< I think there does need to be some kind of consequence for Ethan's
actions. >>

There have already been consequences. His brother threw a fit, he was
embarrassed (maybe ashamed, likely remorseful), they haven't been able to
play...
Natural consequences aren't decided by parents. They happen on their own.

<<I feel like if I go right out and buy a new controller and let him use it..
then he wont have any reason to try to curb his temper the next time he feels
like throwing the controller down. >>

If you don't buy one, he will never have an opportunity to show that he can
curb his temper better now.

Sandra

Fetteroll

on 1/5/03 5:11 PM, grlynbl@... at grlynbl@... wrote:

> I
> think there does need to be some kind of consequence for Ethan's actions. I
> feel like if I go right out and buy a new controller and let him use it..
> then he wont have any reason to try to curb his temper the next time he feels
> like throwing the controller down.

I think because our kids seem so adult like in many ways, we expect more
from them than they're capable of. It's more respectful to trust that he
doesn't know how to control his temper, that he needs help, than to assume
he's making a conscious choice to be "bad".

> I want him to understand how his actions DO have consequences.

Well, he can't play his game right now! Even if you bought him a new one as
soon as possible, it would still be a wait to play again.

> They affect
> him, and they affect all of us. I think if he were younger, I wouldnt
> expect him to have as much control over his frustration.

Learning not to let our feelings dictate our behavior is something that many
adults don't learn! I know I can't stop with just one cookie! I don't have
to listen to those desires for another cookie but I do!

Be his partner in life rather than his trainer, so to speak. Help him figure
out what he can do next time. Help him learn to recognize the signs that his
temper is building. He probably isn't aware of it. And it will probably take
time.

> If he continually
> deals with frustration in an aggressive and destructive manner without
> consequence, what will be the "thing" that helps him begin to control his
> temper?

A mom that loves him enough to help him figure this out. :-)

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/2003 3:43:06 PM Central Standard Time, grlynbl@...
writes:

> I do agree to a certain extent
> , but I that stilll doesnt help me show Ethan how his dealing with
> frustration this way is inapprppiate and has some consequence.

He's suffering the consequence of breaking the controller by not being able
to play. He can see that it is broken. THAT's the consequence.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 4:43:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, grlynbl@...
writes:

> . I
> feel like if I go right out and buy a new controller and let him use it..
> then he wont have any reason to try to curb his temper the next time he
> feels
> like throwing the controller down.

When I get un-trusting, I think very similar thoughts.
But then I remember the way that *I* feel when I do something like what your
son did. (And I still do sometimes, get frustrated and yell at the poor sap
sitting nearest who breathed too loudly.) I feel embarrassed and a little
ashamed, sometimes I sulk for a while, and eventually learn that I made a
mistake and vow to not do it again. I may really internalize enough to purge
the behavior, or I may "act out" again.
Either way, I learn. And nobody has to "teach me the consequenses of my
behavior". I learn from everyone around me.
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nora or Devereaux Cannon

One trap for the unwary on natural consequences:

Pointing out what the natural consequences were may be more of a
punishment than any other imposed consequence.

Julie Bogart <[email protected]>

--- In [email protected],
Earthmomma67@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/5/03 4:43:06 PM Eastern Standard
Time, grlynbl@a...
> writes:
>
> > . I
> > feel like if I go right out and buy a new controller and let him
use it..
> > then he wont have any reason to try to curb his temper the
next time he
> > feels
> > like throwing the controller down.

Just a slightly different take.

When I break something, it does cost me to replace it.
Sometimes I get bailed out (the credit card or store is actually
able to reimburse my failure--as in purchase insurance) and
sometimes I have to pay for it myself.

Perhaps you can let your son know that this time, his "parental
insurance" is able to bail him out. But also share with him that if
it happens again, you may not be able to and it might fall to him
to fix the problem, ie find a way to pay for it.

In this way you give him a vision of what it means to become
more and more personally accountable. I know as a kid, I never
had to pay for any damaged goods. Any time anything was
broken in our family, my dad immediately replaced the item so
no one would be "out"--discomfort was avoided at all costs. I
nearly totaled my brand new car three months after learning to
drive and then went on to get in accidents four more times before
I was independent as an adult (paying for my life). I became a
better driver when I saw my insurance go up from those
accidents, let me tell you. I also regret that my impulse now is
still to hope to be bailed out. And I also now realize the cost of my
carelessness.

So I think it can be very healthy for kids to feel the impact of their
wekanesses in both their consciences and their wallets... just
like we do.

Julie

Marjorie Kirk

Elissa Jill wrote:

> Isn't there a way for individuals to "ignore" other list members? Is there
> something in an email program that you can set to auto delete certain
email
> addresses?
> If anyone knows how, PLEASE share it here so that everybody could just get
> over it?!?!?! Now I have TWO email lists with that same people arguing
about
> the same people.
> Ridiculous.
> *~*Elissa Jill*~*



Try Mailwasher! I think it's at Mailwasher.com, or Mailwasher.net.Check
google. It's a great thing where you can set up to have e-mail from
certain people or lists let through and others blacklisted. It also detects
possible spam and bounces it. My spam has gone from about 20-30 a day to
only 5 or so.

Marjorie

Tia Leschke

> Thanks Tia.. Do you have any suggestions on the "xbox controller" issue?
I
> think there does need to be some kind of consequence for Ethan's actions.
I
> feel like if I go right out and buy a new controller and let him use it..
> then he wont have any reason to try to curb his temper the next time he
feels
> like throwing the controller down. I really do want some more feedback
on
> this. (not obsessing, just pointing out).. Sandra responded that NOT
> replacing the controller could do more harm, I do agree to a certain
extent
> , but I that stilll doesnt help me show Ethan how his dealing with
> frustration this way is inapprppiate and has some consequence. If it was
> just HIS toy, then he broke his toy, he doesnt have his toy any more..
> natural consequence.. But this was a "family" item.. Its a tough one..

I more or less agree with Sandra on this one. But . . . we only have one
kid at home, so we don't have to deal with this sibling stuff. (The others
are all grown and gone.) I think I would probably talk with Ethan about it.
How does he feel about what happened? How does he think it should be dealt
with? Is he willing to put what money he does have toward a new one? What
about the other kids? Are they willing to help out financially so as to get
a new one sooner? Would they have all been willing to give up the pizza
that day? If you really feel that he should replace it, maybe you could
loan him the money.
But you definitely want to help him out with some other ways to deal with
his anger and frustration.
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/03 2:05:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, grlynbl@...
writes:

<< But, I still am
at a loss for what ( if any) consequence is natural for breaking the
controller out of anger. >>

The natural consequences are already playing out I am sure. Not being
able to use the game for however many days/weeks it takes to replace,
his siblings being unhappy with him, and the conversations you have
had with him about anger etc. I might ask that he contribute whatever
funds he has to purchasing a new one, family discussions on how
money could be saved to purchase the new one (ie. not going renting
movies this weekend or going out to eat, put money in a jar, let
kids keep track of it). Just some ideas.
Kathy

snibbor

<<<<<Do you have any suggestions on the "xbox controller" issue?
I
> think there does need to be some kind of consequence for Ethan's actions.
I
> feel like if I go right out and buy a new controller and let him use it..
> then he wont have any reason to try to curb his temper the next time he
feels
> like throwing the controller down. I really do want some more feedback
on
> this. >>>>>>>


We just had a broken Playstation controller Friday. My ds-9 threw it after losing to his Dad in a football game. Dad tried to fix it but it was beyond repair. We did talk about getting so angry, how to avoid breaking things, etc.... but no lecture. I told him what a bummer it was and that he would have to spend his money to replace it. He said "Sure, I know. I won't do that again."

We shall see, but my bet is that he will be more careful in the future. Dad did make a special trip to Walmart just to get the new controller (he was upset too that they couldn't play against each other any more) so he only did without for a few hours. Ds luckily had some Christmas money left over and was able to replace it and get another memory card for about $15.

Kimber


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-=-One trap for the unwary on natural consequences:

-=-Pointing out what the natural consequences were may be more of a
punishment than any other imposed consequence.-=-

Punishment for the child?
Punishment for the mom if we on the list point them out?

Why point out natural consequences?
Kids will feel the natural consequences themselves.

(Maybe I misunderstood the point about pointing out consequences.)

Sandra

Have a Nice Day!

<< I think there does need to be some kind of consequence for Ethan's
actions. >>

There have already been consequences. His brother threw a fit, he was
embarrassed (maybe ashamed, likely remorseful), they haven't been able to
play...
Natural consequences aren't decided by parents. They happen on their own.

<<I feel like if I go right out and buy a new controller and let him use it..
then he wont have any reason to try to curb his temper the next time he feels
like throwing the controller down. >>

If you don't buy one, he will never have an opportunity to show that he can
curb his temper better now.

I agree with Sandra on this one and i've been doing some thinking about this.

I think what others are trying to say is that you don't necessarily need a "consequence" for him to learn better ways of handling his anger.

If your goal is for him to handle anger better, then give him som practical suggestions and let him practice them in a role play situation.

Making him pay for the controller just gives him something else to be angry about. I do understand the logic of it because initially I thought the same thing when I read your post...there should be a consequence. But Sandra is right...the natural consequences have already taken place to the extent that the affect him and not the rest of the family.

I'd spend some time giving him some ideas to handle things better, then go out together and get a new one and let him know that you think he is better prepared this time.

Kristen

Sandra



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jon and Rue Kream

Teresa says: But, I still am
at a loss for what ( if any) consequence is natural for breaking the
controller out of anger.

Rue: The thing about natural consequences is that you don't need to
figure out what they are, or make sure they happen - they are the
consequences that happen naturally :0). So what were they this time?
Maybe right after he did it he felt embarrassed or mad at himself.
Maybe his brother or sister got annoyed with him. Maybe you got annoyed
with him. Maybe you'll never know, and I think that's ok.

Personally I'd tell the kids that as soon as we could afford it I'd
replace it, and then I would. Everyone loses their temper sometimes.
~Rue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]