Cruelties and Inanities (was Parting thoughts)
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
Annette raised it in the context of a poem graded for its
compliance with pencil/double space, but I have seen other,
similar comments about generally clue free interactions with kids
by those with some authority. I have always thought that a
goodly part of raising a child who can think is to help them
distinguish between valid and invalid thinking in others. The
needlessly cruel and inane provide great fodder for "lab work",
so long as you don't yourself become gossips and slanderers.
Indeed sometimes in thinking about why someone did/said what they
did you can forgive them.
My personal best example of parenting to think was by my mother
when I was in 8th grade. There was a writing contest; the
English teacher assigned us all to write for the contest.
I got into the topic; researched it; decided that the answer to
"what can be done" was "not a bloody thing - nobody can agree on
what the goal is"; got an "F" for content; independently
submited the paper, with the "F" on top; won first prize; was
accompanied to the awards banquet by the English teacher; had my
picture in the newspaper with the award, the paper ("F" visible),
English teacher, and Society president; learned many, many
things.
compliance with pencil/double space, but I have seen other,
similar comments about generally clue free interactions with kids
by those with some authority. I have always thought that a
goodly part of raising a child who can think is to help them
distinguish between valid and invalid thinking in others. The
needlessly cruel and inane provide great fodder for "lab work",
so long as you don't yourself become gossips and slanderers.
Indeed sometimes in thinking about why someone did/said what they
did you can forgive them.
My personal best example of parenting to think was by my mother
when I was in 8th grade. There was a writing contest; the
English teacher assigned us all to write for the contest.
I got into the topic; researched it; decided that the answer to
"what can be done" was "not a bloody thing - nobody can agree on
what the goal is"; got an "F" for content; independently
submited the paper, with the "F" on top; won first prize; was
accompanied to the awards banquet by the English teacher; had my
picture in the newspaper with the award, the paper ("F" visible),
English teacher, and Society president; learned many, many
things.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/3/03 6:33:46 AM, dcannon@... writes:
<< got an "F" for content; independently
submited the paper, with the "F" on top; won first prize; was
accompanied to the awards banquet by the English teacher; had my
picture in the newspaper with the award, the paper ("F" visible), >>
WOW.
That's a heck of a story. You could sell it.
Was there discussion or interview at the time about why the teacher gave you
an "F"?
It would have been kind of cool (and if you wanted to) for you to refuse to
be accompanied by that teacher, and just say "No, you don't get to go."
What an empowering situation for you. HA!
I wonder if the teacher still has bad dreams about it.
Sandra
<< got an "F" for content; independently
submited the paper, with the "F" on top; won first prize; was
accompanied to the awards banquet by the English teacher; had my
picture in the newspaper with the award, the paper ("F" visible), >>
WOW.
That's a heck of a story. You could sell it.
Was there discussion or interview at the time about why the teacher gave you
an "F"?
It would have been kind of cool (and if you wanted to) for you to refuse to
be accompanied by that teacher, and just say "No, you don't get to go."
What an empowering situation for you. HA!
I wonder if the teacher still has bad dreams about it.
Sandra
Stephanie Elms
And then I remember a story about the guy who started Fed Ex (or UPS) got an F for the idea in a
college economics class or something like that. The professor felt that it was a terrible
idea because people were happy with the current postal service and would not pay extra
for mailing packages.
Obviously the guy did not listen. :o)
Stephanie E.
college economics class or something like that. The professor felt that it was a terrible
idea because people were happy with the current postal service and would not pay extra
for mailing packages.
Obviously the guy did not listen. :o)
Stephanie E.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/3/03 7:23:40 AM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:
<< . The professor felt that it was a terrible
idea because people were happy with the current postal service and would not
pay extra
for mailing packages.
<<Obviously the guy did not listen. :o) >>
Maybe he listened very closely to all his professor said, and thought "This
guy is full of it!!"
Or maybe the professor's critique gave him all the good arguments he needed
to overcome those "professional objections," as debate does.
That's one reason people who unschool and who rub their ideas up against
other unschoolers' ideas come to win their arguments with relatives and
neighbors. They've already heard the objections and other arguments.
They've practiced seeing clearly what they want to do.
Sandra
writes:
<< . The professor felt that it was a terrible
idea because people were happy with the current postal service and would not
pay extra
for mailing packages.
<<Obviously the guy did not listen. :o) >>
Maybe he listened very closely to all his professor said, and thought "This
guy is full of it!!"
Or maybe the professor's critique gave him all the good arguments he needed
to overcome those "professional objections," as debate does.
That's one reason people who unschool and who rub their ideas up against
other unschoolers' ideas come to win their arguments with relatives and
neighbors. They've already heard the objections and other arguments.
They've practiced seeing clearly what they want to do.
Sandra
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
It was very much empowering - and I never would have done it if
my mother hadn't encouraged me to test the validity of the
teacher's opinion, accompanied by lots of discussion of why she
might not like an essay that broke the stereotypes. Trying to
decide whether to bring her to the ceremony was hard. Either
choice would do damage to her that could be seen as unkind. It
seemed that letting her come was the lest likely to cause her
public harm and most likely to cause her to reflect on what she
had done to a child - but it was a subject of some long "moral
choosing" discussions at the kitchen counter.
my mother hadn't encouraged me to test the validity of the
teacher's opinion, accompanied by lots of discussion of why she
might not like an essay that broke the stereotypes. Trying to
decide whether to bring her to the ceremony was hard. Either
choice would do damage to her that could be seen as unkind. It
seemed that letting her come was the lest likely to cause her
public harm and most likely to cause her to reflect on what she
had done to a child - but it was a subject of some long "moral
choosing" discussions at the kitchen counter.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Cruelties and Inanities (was
Parting thoughts)
|
| In a message dated 1/3/03 6:33:46 AM, dcannon@... writes:
|
| << got an "F" for content; independently
| submited the paper, with the "F" on top; won first prize; was
| accompanied to the awards banquet by the English teacher; had
my
| picture in the newspaper with the award, the paper ("F"
visible), >>
|
| WOW.
|
| That's a heck of a story. You could sell it.
| Was there discussion or interview at the time about why the
teacher gave you
| an "F"?
|
| It would have been kind of cool (and if you wanted to) for you
to refuse to
| be accompanied by that teacher, and just say "No, you don't get
to go."
|
| What an empowering situation for you. HA!
| I wonder if the teacher still has bad dreams about it.
|
| Sandra
|
| ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject
line! ~~~~
|
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|
|
|
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
Fred Smith - and moreover, when he was trying to solve the
problem of how to get packages from place to place quickly, he
ultimately threw up his hands at the mathematical models and
turned to a local art school. He asked one of the profs to let
him pose his problem to the students, who drew solutions. The
guy who came up with the hub and spoke solution that is still
used by Fed-X went on to be faculty at the Memphis College of
Art, where I had him as an instructor.
problem of how to get packages from place to place quickly, he
ultimately threw up his hands at the mathematical models and
turned to a local art school. He asked one of the profs to let
him pose his problem to the students, who drew solutions. The
guy who came up with the hub and spoke solution that is still
used by Fed-X went on to be faculty at the Memphis College of
Art, where I had him as an instructor.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 8:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Cruelties and Inanities (was
Parting thoughts)
|
| And then I remember a story about the guy who started Fed Ex
(or UPS) got an F for the idea in a
| college economics class or something like that. The professor
felt that it was a terrible
| idea because people were happy with the current postal service
and would not pay extra
| for mailing packages.
|
| Obviously the guy did not listen. :o)
|
| Stephanie E.
|
| ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject
line! ~~~~
|
| If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list,
please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll
(fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener
(HEM-Editor@...).
|
| To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
address an email to:
| [email protected]
|
| Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
The one thing that I sometimes actually worry about with
homeschooling is finding enough people who are full of it for our
6 y.o. to recognize the odor of Amish transportation waste when
it is in the air ... of course the real world continues to
surprise me with the richness of opportunity, especially now that
she has taken to watching the nightly news.
homeschooling is finding enough people who are full of it for our
6 y.o. to recognize the odor of Amish transportation waste when
it is in the air ... of course the real world continues to
surprise me with the richness of opportunity, especially now that
she has taken to watching the nightly news.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Cruelties and Inanities (was
Parting thoughts)
|
| In a message dated 1/3/03 7:23:40 AM,
stephanie.elms@...
| writes:
|
| << . The professor felt that it was a terrible
| idea because people were happy with the current postal service
and would not
| pay extra
| for mailing packages.
|
| <<Obviously the guy did not listen. :o) >>
|
| Maybe he listened very closely to all his professor said, and
thought "This
| guy is full of it!!"
|
| Or maybe the professor's critique gave him all the good
arguments he needed
| to overcome those "professional objections," as debate does.
|
| That's one reason people who unschool and who rub their ideas
up against
| other unschoolers' ideas come to win their arguments with
relatives and
| neighbors. They've already heard the objections and other
arguments.
| They've practiced seeing clearly what they want to do.
|
| Sandra
|
|
| ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject
line! ~~~~
|
| If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list,
please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll
(fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener
(HEM-Editor@...).
|
| To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
address an email to:
| [email protected]
|
| Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
[email protected]
The one thing that I sometimes actually worry about with
homeschooling is finding enough people who are full of it for our
6 y.o. to recognize the odor of Amish transportation waste when
it is in the air ..
Oh, dont worry, she'll know it when she smells it :-)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
homeschooling is finding enough people who are full of it for our
6 y.o. to recognize the odor of Amish transportation waste when
it is in the air ..
Oh, dont worry, she'll know it when she smells it :-)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/3/03 1:45:46 PM, dcannon@... writes:
<< Either
choice would do damage to her that could be seen as unkind. >>
But your way was gracious.
And if she suffered embarrassment, she brought it on herself.
Sandra
<< Either
choice would do damage to her that could be seen as unkind. >>
But your way was gracious.
And if she suffered embarrassment, she brought it on herself.
Sandra
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
Thank you - another good outcome from a mother who took an
initially wholly negative experience for her child and mined it
for every bit of good that could come out of it. Thanks, Mom!
Remind me to do the same for your grandkids....
initially wholly negative experience for her child and mined it
for every bit of good that could come out of it. Thanks, Mom!
Remind me to do the same for your grandkids....
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Cruelties and Inanities (was
Parting thoughts)
|
| In a message dated 1/3/03 1:45:46 PM, dcannon@... writes:
|
| << Either
| choice would do damage to her that could be seen as unkind. >>
|
| But your way was gracious.
| And if she suffered embarrassment, she brought it on herself.
|
| Sandra
|
| ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject
line! ~~~~
|
| If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list,
please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll
(fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener
(HEM-Editor@...).
|
| To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
address an email to:
| [email protected]
|
| Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
Bill and Diane
>This took me a minute...LOL!
>
>The one thing that I sometimes actually worry about with
>homeschooling is finding enough people who are full of it for our
>6 y.o. to recognize the odor of Amish transportation waste when
>it is in the air ..
>
:-) Diane