Re: unschooling defined?
Tanya in WA
>From: LammiesX6@...I would have to agree! Hpw old is your little one? Mine is 9 weeks.
>
>In a message dated 6/5/99 8:53:04 AM PST, LammiesX6@... writes:
>
><< Unschoolers CAN see value in everything. Biggggg difference.
> Even the Eclectics are fearful of the "gaps" that may happen, and so they
>use
> a variety of methods - suited to the parent's wishes (more so than the
>childs
> wishes.)
>
> I really think that unschooling is the
> >>
>
>Sorry, typing while nursing is dangerous here!!!
It does get rather interseting trying to type and nurse at the same time...mainly
when they start wiggling! Sorry, I just thought it was neat to find someone
who tries to do the same thing as I do. My hubby thinks I'm wierd for doing
it. But, hey whatever works!
Tanya in WA
>To finish a thought.... I really think that unschooling is the ONLY "method",a
>that actually becomes a lifestyle. There is no "designated" learning time,
>all the time is learning time. We don't separate math into anything... we
>just discover the concepts as we live.... That is a huge difference between
>unschooling and any other "type" of schooling. A lifestyle of learning, or
>"theory" of education.Tanya in WA (state)
>
>FWIW
>Mary
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Did you know each week we feature a ONElist story?
>http://www.onelist.com
>How has ONElist changed your life? Please share your story.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
---SENT FROM A FREE INTERNET AND EMAIL ACCOUNT FROM WWW.FREEi.NET!---
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/99 1:29:19 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
shantinik@... writes:
<<
Agreed! And they would both be "unschooling".
David
doing it without looking for any more definitions or permission. This
reminds me of discussions on feminism. I don't work outside the home but I
am still a feminist. I know I am, therefore I am.
Nance
shantinik@... writes:
<<
Agreed! And they would both be "unschooling".
David
>>OK -- so it's whatever works for me and mine. I think I'll just keep on
doing it without looking for any more definitions or permission. This
reminds me of discussions on feminism. I don't work outside the home but I
am still a feminist. I know I am, therefore I am.
Nance
FUN (Billy & Nancy)
I've always compared unschooling to Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do (a style of
martial arts). Basically, Lee believed that there wasn't any one "best"
style or way to do things. Some people were taller than others, some were
fast, some were strong, some were left handed. Because of these variations,
what worked well for one person might not work well for another. He felt
that Jeet Kune Do was not about technique or doctrine but about the
individual. Thus, a big part of the art was to learn what worked best for
you and to do that. He borrowed freely from other styles to take what worked
for him.
Lee felt that trying to define Jeet Kune Do is to miss the point. He said
"If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from 'this' or from 'that,' then
let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a
name."
I think the same is true of unschooling. When you put the focus on the
learner and work from their strengths or interests, that is unschooling.
Then it doesn't matter if the learner uses a linear, incremental approach
(like many workbooks) or has a more gestalt approach where the seem to go
from nothing to a complete understanding overnight.
When you start trying to apply strict definitions as to what unschooling is
or isn't, then you are limiting yourself and missing the point. I've heard
too many people say that their kid wants a workbook on a particular subject
but they won't buy it because they are unschoolers. If that's the way they
learn best, then that's the way to do it. And that's the point. Unschooling
is about learning, not about teaching. When you eliminate options without
regard for how well they work or don't work but just because they don't fit
a definition of unschooling, then you are no longer unschooling. Unschooling
is also about freedom and why you do things, not about what you do. As Nance
pointed out, you can be a stay at home mom and still be a feminist. That's
because you had the freedom to choose. In fact, there are many women who
work outside of the home who are not feminists, but feel they have no choice
because they need the income or their husbands have told them they have to
work. Again, it's not what you do but why you do it.
Of course, the hard part is to discover what really works best and why a
child wants to take a particular approach. Do they want workbooks because
they have been in school and think that's the only way to learn? Do they
expect you to tell them what to do, to be the expert on every subject, and
to teach them? It may take a while for them to realize that learning is
something they have to do, not something you do to them.
Another Bruce Lee quote that could apply to unschooling: "Self-knowledge is
the basis of Jeet Kune Do because it is effective, not only for the
individual's martial art, but for his life as a human being." (Can you tell
Bruce Lee was a philosophy major in college?)
Billy
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
F.U.N. News - FUN Books
Visit our web sites!
http://www.FUN-Books.com/
http://www.unschooling.org/
Subscribe to the FUN News on-line
newsletter. Send a message to:
[email protected]
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
martial arts). Basically, Lee believed that there wasn't any one "best"
style or way to do things. Some people were taller than others, some were
fast, some were strong, some were left handed. Because of these variations,
what worked well for one person might not work well for another. He felt
that Jeet Kune Do was not about technique or doctrine but about the
individual. Thus, a big part of the art was to learn what worked best for
you and to do that. He borrowed freely from other styles to take what worked
for him.
Lee felt that trying to define Jeet Kune Do is to miss the point. He said
"If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from 'this' or from 'that,' then
let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a
name."
I think the same is true of unschooling. When you put the focus on the
learner and work from their strengths or interests, that is unschooling.
Then it doesn't matter if the learner uses a linear, incremental approach
(like many workbooks) or has a more gestalt approach where the seem to go
from nothing to a complete understanding overnight.
When you start trying to apply strict definitions as to what unschooling is
or isn't, then you are limiting yourself and missing the point. I've heard
too many people say that their kid wants a workbook on a particular subject
but they won't buy it because they are unschoolers. If that's the way they
learn best, then that's the way to do it. And that's the point. Unschooling
is about learning, not about teaching. When you eliminate options without
regard for how well they work or don't work but just because they don't fit
a definition of unschooling, then you are no longer unschooling. Unschooling
is also about freedom and why you do things, not about what you do. As Nance
pointed out, you can be a stay at home mom and still be a feminist. That's
because you had the freedom to choose. In fact, there are many women who
work outside of the home who are not feminists, but feel they have no choice
because they need the income or their husbands have told them they have to
work. Again, it's not what you do but why you do it.
Of course, the hard part is to discover what really works best and why a
child wants to take a particular approach. Do they want workbooks because
they have been in school and think that's the only way to learn? Do they
expect you to tell them what to do, to be the expert on every subject, and
to teach them? It may take a while for them to realize that learning is
something they have to do, not something you do to them.
Another Bruce Lee quote that could apply to unschooling: "Self-knowledge is
the basis of Jeet Kune Do because it is effective, not only for the
individual's martial art, but for his life as a human being." (Can you tell
Bruce Lee was a philosophy major in college?)
Billy
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
F.U.N. News - FUN Books
Visit our web sites!
http://www.FUN-Books.com/
http://www.unschooling.org/
Subscribe to the FUN News on-line
newsletter. Send a message to:
[email protected]
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
>-----Original Message-----
>
>OK -- so it's whatever works for me and mine. I think I'll just keep on
>doing it without looking for any more definitions or permission. This
>reminds me of discussions on feminism. I don't work outside the
>home but I
>am still a feminist. I know I am, therefore I am.
>Nance
David Albert
Marbleface@... wrote:
on what timetable and by what method. The learning chosen could be
ancient Greek or auto mechanics, the timetable could be at any age and
it could be instant "on-the-spot" learning or choosing to take a 6-month
community college course, and the method could be totally by oneself
without any supervision, walking in the woods, sitting down at the
kitchen table for weeks with a workbook, or attending a class. What
separates "unschooling" from more traditional approaches is neither the
subject matter nor the timetable nor the method, but the fact that the
child, faced with the range of options, freely (or as freely as
possible) chooses all three. And there is never such a thing as not
choosing, for children (like the rest of us) are learning all the time.
David
> From: Marbleface@...What makes it "unschooling" is that the child chooses what to learn and
>
> In a message dated 6/5/99 1:29:19 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
> shantinik@... writes:
>
> <<
> Agreed! And they would both be "unschooling".
>
> David
> >>
>
> OK -- so it's whatever works for me and mine. I think I'll just keep
> on
> doing it without looking for any more definitions or permission. This
>
> reminds me of discussions on feminism. I don't work outside the home
> but I
> am still a feminist. I know I am, therefore I am.
>
> Nance
>
>
on what timetable and by what method. The learning chosen could be
ancient Greek or auto mechanics, the timetable could be at any age and
it could be instant "on-the-spot" learning or choosing to take a 6-month
community college course, and the method could be totally by oneself
without any supervision, walking in the woods, sitting down at the
kitchen table for weeks with a workbook, or attending a class. What
separates "unschooling" from more traditional approaches is neither the
subject matter nor the timetable nor the method, but the fact that the
child, faced with the range of options, freely (or as freely as
possible) chooses all three. And there is never such a thing as not
choosing, for children (like the rest of us) are learning all the time.
David
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/1999 6:43:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Marbleface@... writes:
<< OK -- so it's whatever works for me and mine. I think I'll just keep on
doing it without looking for any more definitions or permission. >>
I think that is exactly what homeschooling is, there are no definitions (even
though some like to think there are), and everything goes. If a curriculum
and a school like setting are what makes your family happy, go for it! If
sleeping all day and studying the stars all night is what you want, then go
for it! The public schools are the only ones who have rules and 'ways things
should be done'. Not homeschoolers. Unfortunately there are homeschoolers out
there who insist that their way is the only way, but we don't have to play
with them. :o)
Marti in Wa
Marbleface@... writes:
<< OK -- so it's whatever works for me and mine. I think I'll just keep on
doing it without looking for any more definitions or permission. >>
I think that is exactly what homeschooling is, there are no definitions (even
though some like to think there are), and everything goes. If a curriculum
and a school like setting are what makes your family happy, go for it! If
sleeping all day and studying the stars all night is what you want, then go
for it! The public schools are the only ones who have rules and 'ways things
should be done'. Not homeschoolers. Unfortunately there are homeschoolers out
there who insist that their way is the only way, but we don't have to play
with them. :o)
Marti in Wa
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/99 7:56:29 AM PST, KintHM@... writes:
<< I think that is exactly what homeschooling is, there are no definitions
(even
though some like to think there are), and everything goes. If a curriculum
and a school like setting are what makes your family happy, go for it! If
sleeping all day and studying the stars all night is what you want, then go
for it! The public schools are the only ones who have rules and 'ways things
should be done'. Not homeschoolers. Unfortunately there are homeschoolers
out
there who insist that their way is the only way, but we don't have to play
with them. :o)
Marti in Wa
eclectic homeschoolers and there are very strict school-at-homers. It is my
experience, the last group tends to not care if it works for the whole
family, it is more what works for the parent. Still entrenched in the Public
School Model, they do NOT see value in everything as far as education is
concerned. Unschoolers CAN see value in everything. Biggggg difference.
Even the Eclectics are fearful of the "gaps" that may happen, and so they use
a variety of methods - suited to the parent's wishes (more so than the childs
wishes.)
I really think that unschooling is the
<< I think that is exactly what homeschooling is, there are no definitions
(even
though some like to think there are), and everything goes. If a curriculum
and a school like setting are what makes your family happy, go for it! If
sleeping all day and studying the stars all night is what you want, then go
for it! The public schools are the only ones who have rules and 'ways things
should be done'. Not homeschoolers. Unfortunately there are homeschoolers
out
there who insist that their way is the only way, but we don't have to play
with them. :o)
Marti in Wa
>>I do have to differ here, just a little. There are unschoolers, there are
eclectic homeschoolers and there are very strict school-at-homers. It is my
experience, the last group tends to not care if it works for the whole
family, it is more what works for the parent. Still entrenched in the Public
School Model, they do NOT see value in everything as far as education is
concerned. Unschoolers CAN see value in everything. Biggggg difference.
Even the Eclectics are fearful of the "gaps" that may happen, and so they use
a variety of methods - suited to the parent's wishes (more so than the childs
wishes.)
I really think that unschooling is the
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/99 8:53:04 AM PST, LammiesX6@... writes:
<< Unschoolers CAN see value in everything. Biggggg difference.
Even the Eclectics are fearful of the "gaps" that may happen, and so they
use
a variety of methods - suited to the parent's wishes (more so than the
childs
wishes.)
I really think that unschooling is the
To finish a thought.... I really think that unschooling is the ONLY "method",
that actually becomes a lifestyle. There is no "designated" learning time,
all the time is learning time. We don't separate math into anything... we
just discover the concepts as we live.... That is a huge difference between
unschooling and any other "type" of schooling. A lifestyle of learning, or a
"theory" of education.
FWIW
Mary
<< Unschoolers CAN see value in everything. Biggggg difference.
Even the Eclectics are fearful of the "gaps" that may happen, and so they
use
a variety of methods - suited to the parent's wishes (more so than the
childs
wishes.)
I really think that unschooling is the
>>Sorry, typing while nursing is dangerous here!!!
To finish a thought.... I really think that unschooling is the ONLY "method",
that actually becomes a lifestyle. There is no "designated" learning time,
all the time is learning time. We don't separate math into anything... we
just discover the concepts as we live.... That is a huge difference between
unschooling and any other "type" of schooling. A lifestyle of learning, or a
"theory" of education.
FWIW
Mary
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/1999 9:52:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
LammiesX6@... writes:
<< I do have to differ here, just a little. There are unschoolers, there are
eclectic homeschoolers and there are very strict school-at-homers. It is my
experience, the last group tends to not care if it works for the whole
family, it is more what works for the parent. Still entrenched in the
Public
School Model, they do NOT see value in everything as far as education is
concerned. Unschoolers CAN see value in everything. Biggggg difference.
homeschooling methods overlap at all. I just meant that homeschoolers as a
whole can do whatever they want. The only rules are the ones they impose on
themselves (and of course, state laws). I have a good friend who is a very
strict homeschooler, she and I see nothing the same way, but we have agreed
to disagree. I DO NOT agree with her methods, but I have better things to do
than argue with her.
<<To finish a thought.... I really think that unschooling is the ONLY
"method",
that actually becomes a lifestyle. There is no "designated" learning time,
all the time is learning time. We don't separate math into anything... we
just discover the concepts as we live.... That is a huge difference between
unschooling and any other "type" of schooling. A lifestyle of learning, or a
"theory" of education.>>
I agree with you completely. Unschooling is definitely a lifestyle and not an
educational theory. I was just trying to say out that there are people who
think differently about what homeschooling means to them and that should be
ok.
Marti in Wa
LammiesX6@... writes:
<< I do have to differ here, just a little. There are unschoolers, there are
eclectic homeschoolers and there are very strict school-at-homers. It is my
experience, the last group tends to not care if it works for the whole
family, it is more what works for the parent. Still entrenched in the
Public
School Model, they do NOT see value in everything as far as education is
concerned. Unschoolers CAN see value in everything. Biggggg difference.
>>Perhaps I should clarify a little. I didn't mean that unschooling and strict
homeschooling methods overlap at all. I just meant that homeschoolers as a
whole can do whatever they want. The only rules are the ones they impose on
themselves (and of course, state laws). I have a good friend who is a very
strict homeschooler, she and I see nothing the same way, but we have agreed
to disagree. I DO NOT agree with her methods, but I have better things to do
than argue with her.
<<To finish a thought.... I really think that unschooling is the ONLY
"method",
that actually becomes a lifestyle. There is no "designated" learning time,
all the time is learning time. We don't separate math into anything... we
just discover the concepts as we live.... That is a huge difference between
unschooling and any other "type" of schooling. A lifestyle of learning, or a
"theory" of education.>>
I agree with you completely. Unschooling is definitely a lifestyle and not an
educational theory. I was just trying to say out that there are people who
think differently about what homeschooling means to them and that should be
ok.
Marti in Wa
Helen
At 11:02 AM -0400 6/5/99, FUN (Billy & Nancy) wrote:
Helen
Helen@...
http://unschooling.com
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
Expectations, be they of our own
creation or be they the brainchild
of another, are hellish loads.
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
>When you start trying to apply strict definitions as to what unschooling isWell said, Billy!
>or isn't, then you are limiting yourself and missing the point.
Helen
Helen@...
http://unschooling.com
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
Expectations, be they of our own
creation or be they the brainchild
of another, are hellish loads.
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
::she just is::
Helen said:
I've met quite a few people who are what I would ordinarily label "strict
school-at-homers," who use textbooks and curricula and who insist that
their kids learn certain things, but who are obviously tuned in to their
kids, who are aware and understanding and who try so hard to make the
learning joyful and just a part of their lives that I can't call them
anything but unschoolers.
I was homeschooled the very structured way until last year. Some of it was
good for me, some of it wasn't. I consider myself a pretty methodical
person, which is why I now do "lessons" for myself everyday. I still
consider myself an unschooler.
The structured way was *not* good for me in math. I started hating math
around the pre-algebra stage and am only now realizing how much I *didn't*
learn by doing math lessons every day. I've had math phobia for years,
although I'm getting over it now (more on math in another post).
Structure *was* good for me in grammer and spelling (and writing). I don't
really remember ever having problems with that kind of stuff.
Anyway, I'd have to agree with Helen on what she said there. My mom was a
like that as well :) ~Eryn
==
"I dreamed I was a butterfly, flitting around in the sky;
then I awoke. Now I wonder: Am I a man who dreamt of
being a butterfuly, or am I a butterfly dreaming that I am
a man?" - Chuang Tsu
http://www.camenaworks.com/Eryn/
#24591173 ::she just is::
AIM :: Opal Fayre
I've met quite a few people who are what I would ordinarily label "strict
school-at-homers," who use textbooks and curricula and who insist that
their kids learn certain things, but who are obviously tuned in to their
kids, who are aware and understanding and who try so hard to make the
learning joyful and just a part of their lives that I can't call them
anything but unschoolers.
I was homeschooled the very structured way until last year. Some of it was
good for me, some of it wasn't. I consider myself a pretty methodical
person, which is why I now do "lessons" for myself everyday. I still
consider myself an unschooler.
The structured way was *not* good for me in math. I started hating math
around the pre-algebra stage and am only now realizing how much I *didn't*
learn by doing math lessons every day. I've had math phobia for years,
although I'm getting over it now (more on math in another post).
Structure *was* good for me in grammer and spelling (and writing). I don't
really remember ever having problems with that kind of stuff.
Anyway, I'd have to agree with Helen on what she said there. My mom was a
like that as well :) ~Eryn
==
"I dreamed I was a butterfly, flitting around in the sky;
then I awoke. Now I wonder: Am I a man who dreamt of
being a butterfuly, or am I a butterfly dreaming that I am
a man?" - Chuang Tsu
http://www.camenaworks.com/Eryn/
#24591173 ::she just is::
AIM :: Opal Fayre
Helen
At 12:52 PM -0400 6/5/99, LammiesX6@... wrote:
school-at-homers," who use textbooks and curricula and who insist that
their kids learn certain things, but who are obviously tuned in to their
kids, who are aware and understanding and who try so hard to make the
learning joyful and just a part of their lives that I can't call them
anything but unschoolers.
Helen
Helen@...
http://unschooling.com
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
"Yes, rip out the wires, but you can't rip out the
wires, you can't do it efficiently unless you can
first get people to accept that they're full of
wires, and that they have to be ripped out. And
that only they will know where those wires are."
-John Taylor Gatto, interview in HEM
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
>I do have to differ here, just a little. There are unschoolers, there areI've met quite a few people who are what I would ordinarily label "strict
>eclectic homeschoolers and there are very strict school-at-homers.
school-at-homers," who use textbooks and curricula and who insist that
their kids learn certain things, but who are obviously tuned in to their
kids, who are aware and understanding and who try so hard to make the
learning joyful and just a part of their lives that I can't call them
anything but unschoolers.
Helen
Helen@...
http://unschooling.com
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
"Yes, rip out the wires, but you can't rip out the
wires, you can't do it efficiently unless you can
first get people to accept that they're full of
wires, and that they have to be ripped out. And
that only they will know where those wires are."
-John Taylor Gatto, interview in HEM
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/99 10:03:41 AM PST, Famhmsc@... writes:
<< I was just trying to say out that there are people who think differently
about what homeschooling means to them and that should be ok. >>
I agree Marti. I may think unschooling is THE way, and not agree with
'school at home' types; BUT as a homeschooler I support all homeschool
styles.
Christina
<< I was just trying to say out that there are people who think differently
about what homeschooling means to them and that should be ok. >>
I agree Marti. I may think unschooling is THE way, and not agree with
'school at home' types; BUT as a homeschooler I support all homeschool
styles.
Christina
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/1999 4:10:44 PM, you wrote:
<<I may think unschooling is THE way, and not agree with
'school at home' types; BUT as a homeschooler I support all homeschool
styles. >>
Aha!
I just realized what part of my discomfort is/has been in some of these
discussions. As someone who believes that structure messes kids up, I
support all kinds of unstructured learning, including that which happens in
institutions, over all kinds of structured learning, even if it's done by
homeschoolers.
I'm not anti-school, I'm anti-forced-regimented-"teaching."
The idea of defending people's rights to make their kids do schoolwork at
swith-point galls me. I tend to involve myself in theories of learning and
inspiration, not political realities and laws.
Sandra
<<I may think unschooling is THE way, and not agree with
'school at home' types; BUT as a homeschooler I support all homeschool
styles. >>
Aha!
I just realized what part of my discomfort is/has been in some of these
discussions. As someone who believes that structure messes kids up, I
support all kinds of unstructured learning, including that which happens in
institutions, over all kinds of structured learning, even if it's done by
homeschoolers.
I'm not anti-school, I'm anti-forced-regimented-"teaching."
The idea of defending people's rights to make their kids do schoolwork at
swith-point galls me. I tend to involve myself in theories of learning and
inspiration, not political realities and laws.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/99 3:14:21 PM PST, tbone2@... writes:
<< >Sorry, typing while nursing is dangerous here!!!
I would have to agree! Hpw old is your little one? Mine is 9 weeks.
It does get rather interseting trying to type and nurse at the same
time...mainly
when they start wiggling! Sorry, I just thought it was neat to find someone
who tries to do the same thing as I do. My hubby thinks I'm wierd for doing
it. But, hey whatever works!
Tanya in WA
I am expecting #7 in November too, so she will soon be weaning and I will be
nursing a tiny one again...
Mary
<< >Sorry, typing while nursing is dangerous here!!!
I would have to agree! Hpw old is your little one? Mine is 9 weeks.
It does get rather interseting trying to type and nurse at the same
time...mainly
when they start wiggling! Sorry, I just thought it was neat to find someone
who tries to do the same thing as I do. My hubby thinks I'm wierd for doing
it. But, hey whatever works!
Tanya in WA
>>LOL - mine is 20 months. She not only wiggles - she likes to push buttons!!
I am expecting #7 in November too, so she will soon be weaning and I will be
nursing a tiny one again...
Mary
Helen
At 7:31 PM -0400 6/5/99, SandraDodd@... wrote:
But most people live with realities, not theories.
Helen
Helen@...
http://unschooling.com
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
"I took the road less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."
-Robert Frost
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
>I tend to involve myself in theories of learning andAnd that's why you're so widely admired, Sandra.
>inspiration, not political realities and laws.
But most people live with realities, not theories.
Helen
Helen@...
http://unschooling.com
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
"I took the road less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."
-Robert Frost
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/99 3:32:27 PM PST, SandraDodd@... writes:
<<
Aha!
I just realized what part of my discomfort is/has been in some of these
discussions. As someone who believes that structure messes kids up, I
support all kinds of unstructured learning, including that which happens in
institutions, over all kinds of structured learning, even if it's done by
homeschoolers.
I'm not anti-school, I'm anti-forced-regimented-"teaching."
The idea of defending people's rights to make their kids do schoolwork at
swith-point galls me. I tend to involve myself in theories of learning and
inspiration, not political realities and laws.
KIDS don't like using work-books, texts, etc - what is the point?
I have a dd who begged me for <gulp - Sandra, close your eyes> Alpha Omega!!
Now - First, I have a fundamental problem with supporting J. Richard Fugate,
and second - A canned Curriculum??? But, ok - we found some used "life-paks"
and we got a couple for under $2 each... She did them diligently for about 2
months... then came to me and said - "you know what mom? They leave NO scope
for imagination." can I not do the rest of this?? Boy oh boy - big sigh of
relief from me... She was reading Anne of Green Gables at the time too, can
you tell?? She is now taking charge of her education in her way - not
feeling pressured to do "what other kids my age" are doing. She is really
enjoying it. This week she decided she needed to know all the states and the
dates they were admitted to the union. She is memorizing them in order -
huh. She also has been doing WA state history and loving it. She has
decided that she gets much more information from books out of the library, or
off the internet than she did from AO.
Being Forced to learn did not help me cement any important facts in my brain.
Most of what I know today, I know because I WANTED to learn about it, so I
did. That was my point about "School at homers" and Eclectics, etc They ARE
different than unschoolers... IMHO
mary
<<
Aha!
I just realized what part of my discomfort is/has been in some of these
discussions. As someone who believes that structure messes kids up, I
support all kinds of unstructured learning, including that which happens in
institutions, over all kinds of structured learning, even if it's done by
homeschoolers.
I'm not anti-school, I'm anti-forced-regimented-"teaching."
The idea of defending people's rights to make their kids do schoolwork at
swith-point galls me. I tend to involve myself in theories of learning and
inspiration, not political realities and laws.
>>Ah yes -- this is where I was going with my original "definition". If the
KIDS don't like using work-books, texts, etc - what is the point?
I have a dd who begged me for <gulp - Sandra, close your eyes> Alpha Omega!!
Now - First, I have a fundamental problem with supporting J. Richard Fugate,
and second - A canned Curriculum??? But, ok - we found some used "life-paks"
and we got a couple for under $2 each... She did them diligently for about 2
months... then came to me and said - "you know what mom? They leave NO scope
for imagination." can I not do the rest of this?? Boy oh boy - big sigh of
relief from me... She was reading Anne of Green Gables at the time too, can
you tell?? She is now taking charge of her education in her way - not
feeling pressured to do "what other kids my age" are doing. She is really
enjoying it. This week she decided she needed to know all the states and the
dates they were admitted to the union. She is memorizing them in order -
huh. She also has been doing WA state history and loving it. She has
decided that she gets much more information from books out of the library, or
off the internet than she did from AO.
Being Forced to learn did not help me cement any important facts in my brain.
Most of what I know today, I know because I WANTED to learn about it, so I
did. That was my point about "School at homers" and Eclectics, etc They ARE
different than unschoolers... IMHO
mary
Diana Asberry
WOW Mary! =:~0 I'm in awe...
Congrats!
Diana
NewHampsire/Indiana
----Original Message Follows----
I am expecting #7 in November too, so she will soon be weaning and I will be
nursing a tiny one again...
Mary
----------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Congrats!
Diana
NewHampsire/Indiana
----Original Message Follows----
I am expecting #7 in November too, so she will soon be weaning and I will be
nursing a tiny one again...
Mary
----------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
shannon hawkins
Marti, this is great. We vacilate from doing some traditional school type work
to just whatever the kids want to do. The bottom line is doing what works best
for each child and each family. :-) The more homeschoolers we meet, the more
styles of homeschooling/unschooling I find. ~ Shannon in CA
KintHM@... wrote:
to just whatever the kids want to do. The bottom line is doing what works best
for each child and each family. :-) The more homeschoolers we meet, the more
styles of homeschooling/unschooling I find. ~ Shannon in CA
KintHM@... wrote:
> I think that is exactly what homeschooling is, there are no definitions (even
> though some like to think there are), and everything goes. If a curriculum
> and a school like setting are what makes your family happy, go for it! If
> sleeping all day and studying the stars all night is what you want, then go
> for it! The public schools are the only ones who have rules and 'ways things
> should be done'. Not homeschoolers. Unfortunately there are homeschoolers out
> there who insist that their way is the only way, but we don't have to play
> with them. :o)
>
> Marti in Wa
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members?
> http://www.onelist.com
> Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com
shannon hawkins
I meant vacillate, sheesh, I can't spell tonight. ~ Shannon in CA, who should use
spell checker more often ~
shannon hawkins wrote:
spell checker more often ~
shannon hawkins wrote:
> From: shannon hawkins <hawk141@...>
>
> Marti, this is great. We vacilate .........
[email protected]
<<The idea of defending people's rights to make their kids do schoolwork at
swith-point galls me. I tend to involve myself in theories of learning and
inspiration, not political realities and laws.>>
What the heck is a "swith"?
"switCh point"
Sorry.
swith-point galls me. I tend to involve myself in theories of learning and
inspiration, not political realities and laws.>>
What the heck is a "swith"?
"switCh point"
Sorry.
[email protected]
<<But most people live with realities, not theories.>>
Those realities are based on belief, though, and if belief can change reality
becomes easier. CAN children learn without being methodically force-fed?
"DUH!" You all think. But what made some of you first think that? Practice
and theory. Nobody methodically taught you that (unless you read the AOL
unschooling boards methodically until you had six weeks' or four years' worth
of "OKAY! I give up!" reading of the unschooling missionaries who used to be
over there).
In theory can a family keep their kids home and still get them "socialized"?
People have to accept the theory before they can prove it in practice.
Those who have no daring theories can't leave the safety of their current
practices.
Can people learn to write better by writing and type by typing and think by
thinking? Look at all the online homeschooling moms who didn't consider
themselves writers before who are writing like crazy now, and REAL
writing--persuasive, life-changing writing--and a bunch of them are on this
list. It's one thing to be published. It's another separate thing to be
able to write something privately or semi-publicly which causes readers
elsewhere to change their actions. THAT is what writing's good for and
that's what theory does. It changes belief and practice.
It changes political realities eventually, but I have no interest personally
in driving to Santa Fe and talking to legislators. I'd rather write to
homeschoolers, talk to unschoolers at the park on Thursday, answer phone
questions from people who are thinking just maybe they won't send their kids
to school next year. That's not political reality directly, it's more about
how kids learn and what possibilities exist.
Kids can learn without a curriculum no matter what the state law says.
People can't pass laws that limit cognition. <g>
Sandra
Those realities are based on belief, though, and if belief can change reality
becomes easier. CAN children learn without being methodically force-fed?
"DUH!" You all think. But what made some of you first think that? Practice
and theory. Nobody methodically taught you that (unless you read the AOL
unschooling boards methodically until you had six weeks' or four years' worth
of "OKAY! I give up!" reading of the unschooling missionaries who used to be
over there).
In theory can a family keep their kids home and still get them "socialized"?
People have to accept the theory before they can prove it in practice.
Those who have no daring theories can't leave the safety of their current
practices.
Can people learn to write better by writing and type by typing and think by
thinking? Look at all the online homeschooling moms who didn't consider
themselves writers before who are writing like crazy now, and REAL
writing--persuasive, life-changing writing--and a bunch of them are on this
list. It's one thing to be published. It's another separate thing to be
able to write something privately or semi-publicly which causes readers
elsewhere to change their actions. THAT is what writing's good for and
that's what theory does. It changes belief and practice.
It changes political realities eventually, but I have no interest personally
in driving to Santa Fe and talking to legislators. I'd rather write to
homeschoolers, talk to unschoolers at the park on Thursday, answer phone
questions from people who are thinking just maybe they won't send their kids
to school next year. That's not political reality directly, it's more about
how kids learn and what possibilities exist.
Kids can learn without a curriculum no matter what the state law says.
People can't pass laws that limit cognition. <g>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/99 11:45:10 PM EST, hawk141@... writes:
<< The bottom line is doing what works best
for each child and each family. :-) The more homeschoolers we meet, the
more
styles of homeschooling/unschooling I find. ~ Shannon in CA >>
Shannon,
I couldn't agree more! The longer I home school, the more my style of home
schooling changes, we grow as we go!
Teresa
<< The bottom line is doing what works best
for each child and each family. :-) The more homeschoolers we meet, the
more
styles of homeschooling/unschooling I find. ~ Shannon in CA >>
Shannon,
I couldn't agree more! The longer I home school, the more my style of home
schooling changes, we grow as we go!
Teresa
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/6/99 2:31:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!, SandraDodd@...
writes:
<< <The idea of defending people's rights to make their kids do schoolwork at
swith-point galls me. I tend to involve myself in theories of learning and
inspiration, not political realities and laws.>>
What the heck is a "swith"?
"switCh point"
Nance
writes:
<< <The idea of defending people's rights to make their kids do schoolwork at
swith-point galls me. I tend to involve myself in theories of learning and
inspiration, not political realities and laws.>>
What the heck is a "swith"?
"switCh point"
>>I hardly ever switch them -- it confuses them if I do!!
Nance
=^..^=
>What the heck is a "swith"?Aww, I thought it was some kind of small sharp-pointed medieval weapon.
>
>"switCh point"
>
Thea
[email protected]
<<Aww, I thought it was some kind of small sharp-pointed medieval weapon. >>
I wonder what it might be.
"St. Swithin's Day, if it do rain,
For thirty days it shall remain..."
(Am I makin' this up? Maybe misremembering...)
Dictonary moment:
It used to be, long ago, an adverb meaning swift, immediate, with haste...
Chiefly Scottish. Obscure.
Swithin might mean "scorched" or something.
Now you know. (My apologies to any here who really didn't WANT to know...)
Sandra
I wonder what it might be.
"St. Swithin's Day, if it do rain,
For thirty days it shall remain..."
(Am I makin' this up? Maybe misremembering...)
Dictonary moment:
It used to be, long ago, an adverb meaning swift, immediate, with haste...
Chiefly Scottish. Obscure.
Swithin might mean "scorched" or something.
Now you know. (My apologies to any here who really didn't WANT to know...)
Sandra
[email protected]
Helen wrote:
simply one's interpretation of whatever is going on in light of whatever
one's theories are. But many times we just aren't aware of what our theory
is. Awareness of our theories makes them something we can change if we want
-- and then our realities can change, too.
Janet
>At 7:31 PM -0400 6/5/99, SandraDodd@... wrote:One can't come up with a "reality" unless one has a theory. Realities are
>>I tend to involve myself in theories of learning and
>>inspiration, not political realities and laws.
>And that's why you're so widely admired, Sandra.
>But most people live with realities, not theories.
simply one's interpretation of whatever is going on in light of whatever
one's theories are. But many times we just aren't aware of what our theory
is. Awareness of our theories makes them something we can change if we want
-- and then our realities can change, too.
Janet