[email protected])

I'm having a difficult time and I don't know exactly how I want to
address it. My 13 y/o has Noonan Syndrome. She was the whole reason we
started unschooling, because she couldn't handle the book workery. I've
let the kids decide what they want to explore without interference.
However, my daughter just can't spell and she doesn't seem to desire to
learn how despite people constantly telling her shes spelling words
wrong or they can't even read what she wrote to them. My parents are
constantly on my back about it. She gave them a wish list, so they knew
what she wanted for Chanukah. My mom said there was only one word
spelled correctly on the whole list. Shes reading and tells me all
about the stories shes reading about, so I don't understand why shes not
able to spell.
I'm trying to continue to trust her and hoping that eventually
she'll pick it up, but I suppose I'm the one having a hard time with
this. It doesn't seem to interest her to be able to write clearly to
others. I feel like I'm sitting on my hands and biting my lip to avoid
a conflict with her over it. If we even mention it to her she starts
crying, so I don't want her to be up-set over it any more than she
already is. Any suggestions for me to relax or to encourage her? How
do I deal with other people about it too? Its like they are looking at
me and saying I'm not doing a very good job at this home /unschooling
anymore. My oldest son (18 y/o) came out and told me so, but we did a
traditional school at home style with him right up until he went into
the public school and he doesn't understand the change to unschooling,
nor does anyone else for that matter.
Thanks in advance for an help, suggestions or advice.
Robin

$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
Robin's Nest http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/index.html
$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
Suggested Prayers for B'nai Noah:
http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/prayers.html
$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$

Thad Martin

hi,

i think your daughter's relationship with learning is more important than
merely being good at spelling (i know that this is difficult for many
people to accept, given the competitive nature of our society). i'm not
sure what learning difficulties she has (spelling is still extremely
difficult for me and i was tested at the age of 30, and found out i'm
dyslexic- no big surprise), but what i've noticed with our son is, if
something is particularly challenging he needs to back off a bit and do
something that gives him the confidence to meet the new challenge. part of
unschooling, for me, is the faith you must have in your child and how
important it is to observe your child so you can be available when those
windows of opportunity open, when she feels particularly confident and
ready to venture out.

i think that one of the biggest problems with our traditional approach to
education is that challenges are set up as a win or lose experience and
that failure itself has lost it inherent value. for example, when
learning to spell, it's either right our wrong, but my experience tells me
that lots of times one comes very close to right, so i see shades of
gray. i think that if you spend time talking with her about spelling and
why she chose the letters/sounds she did (provided she's willing and
doesn't feel threatened by the challenge) the reason she spelled it the way
she did might begin to make a lot of sense - from her perspective. this
can actually give you some insight into how her mind works- but this takes
time and patience, often hard things to give especially in an atmosphere of
doubt. this kind of dialoging is critical but i think that giving the
child the opportunity to witness you being challenged and struggling,
failing and keeping on trying, and enjoying the process of learning, has
equal value. i think, this witnessing would allow her to feel like
she's normal, that everyone has something with which they struggle -
strengths and weakness that we each individually learn to use and balance.

-susan
austin,tx

Robin Leuenberger wrote:

> From: Nest4Robin@... (Robin Leuenberger)
>
> I'm having a difficult time and I don't know exactly how I want to
> address it. My 13 y/o has Noonan Syndrome. She was the whole reason we
> started unschooling, because she couldn't handle the book workery. I've
> let the kids decide what they want to explore without interference.
> However, my daughter just can't spell and she doesn't seem to desire to
> learn how despite people constantly telling her shes spelling words
> wrong or they can't even read what she wrote to them. My parents are
> constantly on my back about it. She gave them a wish list, so they knew
> what she wanted for Chanukah. My mom said there was only one word
> spelled correctly on the whole list. Shes reading and tells me all
> about the stories shes reading about, so I don't understand why shes not
> able to spell.
> I'm trying to continue to trust her and hoping that eventually
> she'll pick it up, but I suppose I'm the one having a hard time with
> this. It doesn't seem to interest her to be able to write clearly to
> others. I feel like I'm sitting on my hands and biting my lip to avoid
> a conflict with her over it. If we even mention it to her she starts
> crying, so I don't want her to be up-set over it any more than she
> already is. Any suggestions for me to relax or to encourage her? How
> do I deal with other people about it too? Its like they are looking at
> me and saying I'm not doing a very good job at this home /unschooling
> anymore. My oldest son (18 y/o) came out and told me so, but we did a
> traditional school at home style with him right up until he went into
> the public school and he doesn't understand the change to unschooling,
> nor does anyone else for that matter.
> Thanks in advance for an help, suggestions or advice.
> Robin
>
> $~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
> Robin's Nest http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/index.html
> $~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
> Suggested Prayers for B'nai Noah:
> http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/prayers.html
> $~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

[email protected]

>> It doesn't seem to interest her to be able to write clearly to
others.>>>

Dr. Raymond Moore has written about the benefits of delayed education and
many examples of children who did not BEGIN formal education until ages
10-12. Her ability to read must be reassuring to you. Maybe she could
agree to have you help her edit and correct spelling on *important*
documents that go to those outside your family? (Like the gift list to
Grandma)

>> How do I deal with other people about it too? Its like they are
looking at me and saying I'm not doing a very good job at this home
/unschooling anymore. >>

People who don't agree with hs/uns will usually manage to find fault.
How about asking them for statistics on schooled children and spelling
(Haha). Are *learning disabilities* part of Noonan's? Maybe you can
point out the areas in which she is doing better than expected. Good
luck!

Mary Ellen
Seek joy in what you give, not in what you get.

___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Lisa Bugg

> I'm having a difficult time and I don't know exactly how I want to
> address it.

I have lots and lots to say on the topic of spelling, but life here is
chaotic. I'll try to sit down and write late tonight or tomorrow,but I
wanted you to have this nugget right now.

I am 39 years old. I do not spell well. I do spell better now than I did
at 32. Why? Because I started posting on AOL's message's boards and USED my
writing/spelling skills. Everyone accepted what I wrote in the spirit it
was intended. Just a few people dared to comment and were promptly told
that the content, the ideas,my presented were vastly more important than
spelling ability. I cannot adequately describe the healing that occurred
when that happened.

Let it go. She may never be a good speller. It may click in two years and
she'll never misspell another word. It matters not.

On how to handle other people, there is an important secret in handling
negative people. If you don't mind, if you refuse to allow them to make you
feel less than the wonderful mom you are, they will leave you alone. It's
related to the sense of smell. If they smell your doubts, they'll take that
as an opening cue. If they smell confidence, they'll leave you alone.


Lisa --who used a spell checker on this message. ;)

Joel Hawthorne

Encore! Encore!

Lisa Bugg wrote:

> From: "Lisa Bugg" <LisaBugg@...>
>
> > I'm having a difficult time and I don't know exactly how I want to
> > address it.
>
> I have lots and lots to say on the topic of spelling, but life here is
> chaotic. I'll try to sit down and write late tonight or tomorrow,but I
> wanted you to have this nugget right now.
>
> I am 39 years old. I do not spell well. I do spell better now than I did
> at 32. Why? Because I started posting on AOL's message's boards and USED my
> writing/spelling skills. Everyone accepted what I wrote in the spirit it
> was intended. Just a few people dared to comment and were promptly told
> that the content, the ideas,my presented were vastly more important than
> spelling ability. I cannot adequately describe the healing that occurred
> when that happened.
>
> Let it go. She may never be a good speller. It may click in two years and
> she'll never misspell another word. It matters not.
>
> On how to handle other people, there is an important secret in handling
> negative people. If you don't mind, if you refuse to allow them to make you
> feel less than the wonderful mom you are, they will leave you alone. It's
> related to the sense of smell. If they smell your doubts, they'll take that
> as an opening cue. If they smell confidence, they'll leave you alone.
>
> Lisa --who used a spell checker on this message. ;)
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

--
best wishes
Joel

For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html

All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/

Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall

Lisa your post was awesome. Although spelling, and anything related to
language and expression has been a strong suit of mine, my father cannot
"spell to save his life." He is a Mechanical/Nuclear engineer with
multiple degrees and is the manager of an engineering office with a staff
of 100+ highly educated men and women at a Nuclear Government reservation
doing extremely technical and important cleanup work. He has secretarial
staff who correct his spelling for him, and often sends interoffice notes
with tons of acronyms instead of full words so he won't have to spell them.

He did not always have the luxury of secretaries earlier in his career. I
mean the man is nearly 70 years old. He has worked on the Apollo moon
rocket project, Three Mile Island 1 (the one that DIDN'T meltdown,) Jet and
rocket engines, and many many other projects. More recently, he is working
on Chernobyl cleanup. But he CANNOT spell. I repeat CANNOT!!

I recently recieved an email from him in which the NAME of my niece (who
lives with them) was spelled wrong.....just a recent example.

Nanci K.

Lisa Bugg

Just a few people dared to comment and were promptly told
> that the content, the ideas,my presented were vastly more important than
> spelling ability. I cannot adequately describe the healing that occurred
> when that happened.


And dang it, every time I reread a post of mine I find something that should
have been fixed before the post was sent. But you know this underscores my
point. I was proof reading and meant to change *the ideas presented* to
*my ideas presented*, but with 3 young children, the phone, two dogs, my
own propensity to wander down mental tangents and the laundry... well... the
point was more important than being grammatically perfect.

I truly believe that in our quest to make everyone *well* educated, we
destory part of our own souls. How many times have we almost written a
letter to the editor, but were afraid we'd make too many mistakes? How many
times have we been silenced by the insidious lesson that only *good* writers
should have their viewpoints presented to the reading public?

If you can find some of the original letters of Jefferson, Hamiliton, Adams
et al. You'll not find many words that had a standard spelling. I believe
it's Jefferson who even spelled the same word different ways in the same
letter.

Unschooling is so hard to talk about at times. How do we convey that, yes,
we have hopes and dreams for our children. We want them to have the skills
needed to function and function well, yet at the same time we value them as
they are, not as some invisible *standard* would have us believe they should
be. Why should all people be able to spell well? We're not all able to fix
an engine. Shoot, I couldn't even do that when bobby pins were handy. As for
fixing one without a bobby pin, forget it. No one thinks less of me because
I don't have that particular skill.

And I don't know how to say that yes, I want people in general to think well
of me and my family, but not at the expense of having to make sure they're
happy with my spelling ability. <VBG>

Robin, I hope this isn't too much. This is one of my own personal demons,
this issue of spelling and writing. After I've said all of this, I have to
remind you that we also need to remember she's 13. Many, many young women
are in a fog during this time. They really don't think too well at times.
If she's never been a very good speller, 13 is not the time to expect it to
get better. We need you to tell us more about Noonan's, so that we might
could point you to specific resources.

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/14/99 7:01:26 PM EST, LisaBugg@... writes:

<< Because I started posting on AOL's message's boards and USED my
writing/spelling skills. >>
Lisa,
my ds was having a problem wanting to write, because he is a perfectionist,
and if he couldn't spell it, he didn't want to write. I started letting him
go into chat rooms, to increase his typing speed and ability. The deal was,
he couldn't stay in chat if he didn't type correctly. Well, the other night
I was sitting with him and watching. He can type as fast as me, and guess
what? His spelling has sky rocketed! We never stressed spelling, have not
done spelling words and stuff, but man, I was impressed. So, like you, what
wonders hath AOL brought about! LOL. To the mom who is worried, try this, it
may work for you all.
Teresa

McBryan Alignan

Hello,

My name is Diane (36) - I live in France with Jean Luc (46) and
Claire (3.5). I am a new subscriber.

I enjoyed reading the posts of Susan, Lisa - and other responses to
Robin's message about spelling.


Susan wrote:
> i think that one of the biggest problems with our traditional approach to
> education is that challenges are set up as a win or lose experience and
> that failure itself has lost it inherent value. for example, when
> learning to spell, it's either right our wrong, but my experience tells me
> that lots of times one comes very close to right, so i see shades of
> gray.

So true. It is the process (and fun) of gaining knowledge that seems
so lost...From the original post, there seems to be enormous pressure
underlying her performance - even if subtle - from others. Is there
nothing that others struggle with "that is not a good as it "should"
be? How would they feel if their errors were focused on so often?...

Thomas and Nancy wrote:

Although spelling, and anything related to language and expression has
been a strong suit of mine, my father cannot "spell to save his life."
He is a Mechanical/Nuclear engineer with multiple degrees and is the
manager of an engineering office with a staff of 100+ highly educated
men and women at a Nuclear Government reservation doing extremely
technical and important cleanup work. He has secretarial staff who
correct his spelling for him, and often sends interoffice notes with
tons of acronyms instead of full words so he won't have to spell them.

Diane: Seems to me this man gets along very well in life *without*
spelling well. And so: So what?! He creatively finds ways to go about
his work without causing himself or anyone else distress.
It is simply not important - just as it is not so important with
Robin's daughter. I find it irritating this focus on error.
It must be overwhelming at times for children.

[snip]
Susan continues in regard to being open and supportive:
this kind of dialoging is critical but i think that giving the
> child the opportunity to witness you being challenged and struggling,
> failing and keeping on trying, and enjoying the process of learning, has
> equal value. i think, this witnessing would allow her to feel like
> she's normal, that everyone has something with which they struggle -
> strengths and weakness that we each individually learn to use and balance.

Quite so. Normal...what is "normal", anyway? What makes up all of a
child/person is what is perfectly normal. Enjoying the process of
learning and knowing is enough and fine - - - regardless of errors
along the way - or "syndromes" and "disabilities".

It is the *process* that is important - respecting each child's
unique process of learning.

Albert Einstein -- born 1879, Ulm, Germany; died 1955
co-winner of the 1921 Nobel Prize in physics . . . I worked most of the
time in the physical laboratory [at the Polytechnic Institute of Z�rich],
fascinated by the direct contact with experience. The balance of the
time I used in the main in order to study at home the works of Kirchoff,
Helmholtz, Hertz, etc. . . . In [physics], however, I soon learned to
scent out that which was able to lead to fundamentals and to turn aside
from everything else, from the multitude of things which clutter up the
mind and divert it from the essential. The hitch in this was, of course,
the fact that one had to cram all this stuff into one's mind for the
examinations, whether one liked it or not. This coercion had such a
deterring effect [upon me] that, after I had passed the final
examination, I found the consideration of any scientific problems distasteful to me for an entire
year.

* * *
My! How stress and obligation clutter up the mind.
Perhaps spelling is not "the essential" for Robin's daughter.

All is well. Really.

Diane McBryan Alignan

stephanie

>>On how to handle other people, there is an important secret in handling
negative people. If you don't mind, if you refuse to allow them to make you
feel less than the wonderful mom you are, they will leave you alone. It's
related to the sense of smell. If they smell your doubts, they'll take that
as an opening cue. If they smell confidence, they'll leave you alone.


Lisa --who used a spell checker on this message. ;)<<<

Well, hectic holidays aside I'm going to take the time to say
***Thanks***
for writing this now Lisa.

I've been thinking quite a bit about the idea of the brain being "softer" or more impressionable when we are children, and about the fact that I seem to have a HUGE problem with rules and technicalities at this stage of my life. I went to the community college to take a class recently, and though I did get involved in what the teacher was asking of us, I studied my own learning style and rythms more so than following their guide so that I can be a more aware and awake Mom.

Noticing areas of disinterest in my kids, I've questioned whether I am letting *prime learning seasons* pass us by, and with this question in mind, I payed close attention to everything.

What I've decided, after using myself as an example is No, I'm not.
My spelling is not great, my grammar is annoying to some, and my on-the-spot math calculations are slow in comparison with many others...but I understand and grasp concepts concerning math and science and communication that many of my more technically gifted friends (and dh falls in there too) struggle with. I found out that I can find relevance and meaning in almost anything, and that I really LOVE people.

Over the years, I have often been told that I'm too "abstract," and have made efforts to change some of that in order to be able to communicate with people better. It's been rewarding up to a point. I will never be a technically detailed writer, nor a concrete thinking mathematician. Never.
My joy is not in that, although I greatly admire people gifted in these ways.

So, though the little stumbles are not convenient and are sometimes a little embarrassing, I wouldn't trade my "gifts" for someone else's. That being so, I can't exactly encourage my children to do so can I? <g>

And Lisa, you're very right about spelling skills. Practice is the only thing that makes sense. Learning the rules and tips are useful once the desire to create a full and complete "work" are in place, but on their own they can be just drudgery. My oldest dd is a wonderful speller for her age, and that is only because she is interested in writing stories about sea-life and reading about whales. She hasn't learned spelling for spelling's sake.

I'm hoping that in coming days she'll apply this same principle to gaining her "math" skills... somehow gaining the more concrete and measurable skills in order to do or describe or display something that she's already interested in. Seeing that for 5 years, her interest in nature and science hasn't slowed down, I'm pretty confident that we'll begin running into definable math principles at a faster and faster rate...but we'll see. :)

Steph

McBryan Alignan

Lisa Bugg wrote:

> I truly believe that in our quest to make everyone *well* educated, we
> destory part of our own souls.

Hey - here's a neat error: 'destory' - instead of 'destroy' - I like it.
It makes me think of 'de-story': to take away part of someone's
life story. It's all about *meaning* and putting thoughts into words.



Diane McBryan Alignan

[email protected])

I just wanted to thank everybody for your imput on the spelling
topic. I was able to put together some of your posts and send them off
to my parents. My mother called me, of course with her own suggestions,
like is Becca wearing her glasses, etc.? Never the less, she was able
to see other peoples views and maybe she'll be a little more
understanding of Becca's poor spelling skills now.
Lisa asked for more info. on Noonan Syndrome, you can go to;
http://www.noonansyndrome.org
If you'd like to see Rebecca go into the gallery of stars under Rebecca,
11. She's 13 now and has grown out her bangs, but you can see who she
is at least.
Have to run, its a busy day!
Robin

$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
Robin's Nest http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/index.html
$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
Suggested Prayers for B'nai Noah:
http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/prayers.html
$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$