Fw: Teens?
Robyn Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robyn Carter" <rcarter@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 12:54 PM
Subject: Teens?
> Happy Holidays to all you unschooling parents and families! I have a
subject
> I'd love some input from this list on, especially Sandra and Tuck's
wisdom.
> We re in a new community, very conservative compared to where we came
from.
> My oldest dd became a teen over the summer. The question I have is when
does
> staying connected with your teen become smothering? She seems to have WAY
> more freedom then any of the other teens we've met here, even though
several
> of them are unschoolers. Okay, there were a couple of "incidents", one
> involving hand holding, and another involving a truth or dare Jenga game
(I
> hadn't played it with her, or looked at it after it came out of the box).
> Both of these "incidents" were very brief, lasting about 5 mins. before an
> adult became involved. Do I have a perverse child? Am I an unaware parent?
I
> try to keep my relationship with her based on mutual trust, but it seems
> like everyone here is hovering, waiting for something awful to happen.
> Although what that would be I'm not sure...I'm being vague in case some
one
> on this list happens to be one of those parents, but really, now that I'm
> typing it, it was that innocent. Give me some feedback!!
> Robyn, wearing a disguise as I type :-))
>
>
>
Have a Nice Day!
Well, I can't offer a whole lot of wisdom on this. In fact, I'm kind of sitting with you in this boat.
Last week, my daughter and her friend were on habbo-hotel and came across a way to have habbo credits to buy furniture, etc. It involved ordering a splashtastic card, which meant they had to supply a mailing address (personal info).
Well, I was sitting right behind them but I was doing cross stitch and it somehow didn't register with me that they were going to have to give personal information for this (when my daughter explained it to her brother).
Anyway, the next day, the other girl's mom called me and told me her husband receives all of her daughter's emails so that they can keep track of what she is doing. I understand the safety issue, but I still will not do that. (My daughter later asked me if I was monitoring *her* emails and I said "no". She was glad about that and I felt I had earned her trust).
The father went ballistic to the mother, and the mother called me (but was very reasonable about the whole thing). I just reminded my daughter (and her friend) that its not safe to give out that kind of info. Meanwhile, her friend was afraid to go home. I asked that in the future whenever she has to fill out a form that she come and get me so I can check it out. She was ok with it, and we discussed the habbo hotel credits and thats when we learned that 9 British pounds was $14.00. And from there we moved on. No big deal.
My point is that I too give my kids a lot of freedom, much more so than their peers have. And I'm starting to just accept the fact that other parents are going to think I'm irresponsible.
They think that way for no other reason than the fundamental belief here that kids are evil until forced to be good, and that they are only capable of getting in trouble unless an adult restrains them.
I'm getting to the point where I'm not going to apologize for letting my kids have all this freedom. Apparently G-d thinks I have what it takes to parent the children he gave to me. So boo hiss on those who disagree.
Kristen
Last week, my daughter and her friend were on habbo-hotel and came across a way to have habbo credits to buy furniture, etc. It involved ordering a splashtastic card, which meant they had to supply a mailing address (personal info).
Well, I was sitting right behind them but I was doing cross stitch and it somehow didn't register with me that they were going to have to give personal information for this (when my daughter explained it to her brother).
Anyway, the next day, the other girl's mom called me and told me her husband receives all of her daughter's emails so that they can keep track of what she is doing. I understand the safety issue, but I still will not do that. (My daughter later asked me if I was monitoring *her* emails and I said "no". She was glad about that and I felt I had earned her trust).
The father went ballistic to the mother, and the mother called me (but was very reasonable about the whole thing). I just reminded my daughter (and her friend) that its not safe to give out that kind of info. Meanwhile, her friend was afraid to go home. I asked that in the future whenever she has to fill out a form that she come and get me so I can check it out. She was ok with it, and we discussed the habbo hotel credits and thats when we learned that 9 British pounds was $14.00. And from there we moved on. No big deal.
My point is that I too give my kids a lot of freedom, much more so than their peers have. And I'm starting to just accept the fact that other parents are going to think I'm irresponsible.
They think that way for no other reason than the fundamental belief here that kids are evil until forced to be good, and that they are only capable of getting in trouble unless an adult restrains them.
I'm getting to the point where I'm not going to apologize for letting my kids have all this freedom. Apparently G-d thinks I have what it takes to parent the children he gave to me. So boo hiss on those who disagree.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Robyn Carter
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 6:27 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robyn Carter" <rcarter@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 12:54 PM
Subject: Teens?
> Happy Holidays to all you unschooling parents and families! I have a
subject
> I'd love some input from this list on, especially Sandra and Tuck's
wisdom.
> We re in a new community, very conservative compared to where we came
from.
> My oldest dd became a teen over the summer. The question I have is when
does
> staying connected with your teen become smothering? She seems to have WAY
> more freedom then any of the other teens we've met here, even though
several
> of them are unschoolers. Okay, there were a couple of "incidents", one
> involving hand holding, and another involving a truth or dare Jenga game
(I
> hadn't played it with her, or looked at it after it came out of the box).
> Both of these "incidents" were very brief, lasting about 5 mins. before an
> adult became involved. Do I have a perverse child? Am I an unaware parent?
I
> try to keep my relationship with her based on mutual trust, but it seems
> like everyone here is hovering, waiting for something awful to happen.
> Although what that would be I'm not sure...I'm being vague in case some
one
> on this list happens to be one of those parents, but really, now that I'm
> typing it, it was that innocent. Give me some feedback!!
> Robyn, wearing a disguise as I type :-))
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Carter
Kristen, I love you! Thanks for your response-I have been feeling that I am
the only parent in the whole world who isn't, as you said, assuming all
children are evil! It's good to know that I am not alone, and that other
people also parent from the perspective that our children are to be trusted!
thanks again for boo hissing along with me! I'm going to keep on trusting
that she can make good decisions for her life-what, when , how she learns
everything!
Happy Holidays,
Robyn
the only parent in the whole world who isn't, as you said, assuming all
children are evil! It's good to know that I am not alone, and that other
people also parent from the perspective that our children are to be trusted!
thanks again for boo hissing along with me! I'm going to keep on trusting
that she can make good decisions for her life-what, when , how she learns
everything!
Happy Holidays,
Robyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
> Well, I can't offer a whole lot of wisdom on this. In fact, I'm kind of
sitting with you in this boat.
>
> Last week, my daughter and her friend were on habbo-hotel and came across
a way to have habbo credits to buy furniture, etc. It involved ordering a
splashtastic card, which meant they had to supply a mailing address
(personal info).
>
> Well, I was sitting right behind them but I was doing cross stitch and it
somehow didn't register with me that they were going to have to give
personal information for this (when my daughter explained it to her
brother).
>
> Anyway, the next day, the other girl's mom called me and told me her
husband receives all of her daughter's emails so that they can keep track of
what she is doing. I understand the safety issue, but I still will not do
that. (My daughter later asked me if I was monitoring *her* emails and I
said "no". She was glad about that and I felt I had earned her trust).
>
> The father went ballistic to the mother, and the mother called me (but was
very reasonable about the whole thing). I just reminded my daughter (and
her friend) that its not safe to give out that kind of info. Meanwhile, her
friend was afraid to go home. I asked that in the future whenever she has
to fill out a form that she come and get me so I can check it out. She was
ok with it, and we discussed the habbo hotel credits and thats when we
learned that 9 British pounds was $14.00. And from there we moved on. No
big deal.
>
> My point is that I too give my kids a lot of freedom, much more so than
their peers have. And I'm starting to just accept the fact that other
parents are going to think I'm irresponsible.
>
> They think that way for no other reason than the fundamental belief here
that kids are evil until forced to be good, and that they are only capable
of getting in trouble unless an adult restrains them.
>
> I'm getting to the point where I'm not going to apologize for letting my
kids have all this freedom. Apparently G-d thinks I have what it takes to
parent the children he gave to me. So boo hiss on those who disagree.
>
> Kristen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robyn Carter
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 6:27 PM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robyn Carter" <rcarter@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 12:54 PM
> Subject: Teens?
>
>
> > Happy Holidays to all you unschooling parents and families! I have a
> subject
> > I'd love some input from this list on, especially Sandra and Tuck's
> wisdom.
> > We re in a new community, very conservative compared to where we came
> from.
> > My oldest dd became a teen over the summer. The question I have is
when
> does
> > staying connected with your teen become smothering? She seems to have
WAY
> > more freedom then any of the other teens we've met here, even though
> several
> > of them are unschoolers. Okay, there were a couple of "incidents",
one
> > involving hand holding, and another involving a truth or dare Jenga
game
> (I
> > hadn't played it with her, or looked at it after it came out of the
box).
> > Both of these "incidents" were very brief, lasting about 5 mins.
before an
> > adult became involved. Do I have a perverse child? Am I an unaware
parent?
> I
> > try to keep my relationship with her based on mutual trust, but it
seems
> > like everyone here is hovering, waiting for something awful to happen.
> > Although what that would be I'm not sure...I'm being vague in case
some
> one
> > on this list happens to be one of those parents, but really, now that
I'm
> > typing it, it was that innocent. Give me some feedback!!
> > Robyn, wearing a disguise as I type :-))
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Gerard Westenberg
<<have been feeling that I am
the only parent in the whole world who isn't, as you said, assuming all
children are evil! >>
What I , and my teens , find difficult is when people don't treat the teens in their family as reasonable beings. You know, I sometimes don't agree with my teens' choices but we talk about as rational people. Yet, my older boys are interstate atm, staying with another hs family and going to a formal ball. They have, in turn, invited the young people from that family back, in January, to spend a weekend with us and attend yet another ball. But, the father in the other family is saying no - it costs too much to fly - this is in spite of the fact that the oldest two are 18 and 20 and are paying their own way. The father isn't discussing this - he is forbidding it! Makes my boys see red - they are used to discussing things ad infinitum in our family... I think our discussions are really valuable and erlevant to their lives now and to their futures - to us, it is important to treat teens as reasonable beings, not as the enemy or a problem.....Leonie W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the only parent in the whole world who isn't, as you said, assuming all
children are evil! >>
What I , and my teens , find difficult is when people don't treat the teens in their family as reasonable beings. You know, I sometimes don't agree with my teens' choices but we talk about as rational people. Yet, my older boys are interstate atm, staying with another hs family and going to a formal ball. They have, in turn, invited the young people from that family back, in January, to spend a weekend with us and attend yet another ball. But, the father in the other family is saying no - it costs too much to fly - this is in spite of the fact that the oldest two are 18 and 20 and are paying their own way. The father isn't discussing this - he is forbidding it! Makes my boys see red - they are used to discussing things ad infinitum in our family... I think our discussions are really valuable and erlevant to their lives now and to their futures - to us, it is important to treat teens as reasonable beings, not as the enemy or a problem.....Leonie W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I've been away from here for nearly 24 hours, and I have a lot of reading to
do, but about teens and e-mail, I don't check on my kids. I don't know their
passwords. They do know mine. They don't check on me either.
I joined NeoPets yesterday because Marty wouldn't let me play his games! <g>
(and I figured I could give him some of my stuff, because he cards and I
don't). They asked for a street address, and I gave it to them. The site's
on some other continent, I think. Also my address is a matter of public
record, and it's in the phone book, and you can put it in Mapquest and get a
map to my house.
If the kids were telling people in instant message how to get to our house,
and what time would be good to sneak in in the dark, that would be horrible.
But they wouldn't ever do anything so stupid.
The internet horror stories I've heard seemed always to involve a teenager
who was profoundly unhappy and whose parents weren't communicating with them,
or kids who were frequently grounded and stuck in their rooms, and so ANYONE
with a plan to get them out and to listen to them seemed like a glowing
savior. In a case where kids are treated as people and communications with
their family are good, why would some online person seem more attractive than
people they know and trust?
I can't get excited about addresses being out there. Paranoia and instilled
fear definitely hurt kids. They can be wise and careful without being
terrified.
Sandra
do, but about teens and e-mail, I don't check on my kids. I don't know their
passwords. They do know mine. They don't check on me either.
I joined NeoPets yesterday because Marty wouldn't let me play his games! <g>
(and I figured I could give him some of my stuff, because he cards and I
don't). They asked for a street address, and I gave it to them. The site's
on some other continent, I think. Also my address is a matter of public
record, and it's in the phone book, and you can put it in Mapquest and get a
map to my house.
If the kids were telling people in instant message how to get to our house,
and what time would be good to sneak in in the dark, that would be horrible.
But they wouldn't ever do anything so stupid.
The internet horror stories I've heard seemed always to involve a teenager
who was profoundly unhappy and whose parents weren't communicating with them,
or kids who were frequently grounded and stuck in their rooms, and so ANYONE
with a plan to get them out and to listen to them seemed like a glowing
savior. In a case where kids are treated as people and communications with
their family are good, why would some online person seem more attractive than
people they know and trust?
I can't get excited about addresses being out there. Paranoia and instilled
fear definitely hurt kids. They can be wise and careful without being
terrified.
Sandra
[email protected]
about teens and e-mail, I don't check on my kids. I don't know their
passwords. They do know mine. They don't check on me either.
Same here.. and I agree with everything else you said about "Internet safety"
I dont want to make light of anyones fears of Internet predators or
security risks, but , in fact that are pretty minimal. If someone wants to
find out your ( or your teens) address, phone number, etc.. they can easily
without you divulging it. Folks on the Internet are no more "risky" than
folks in real life. My kids have unrestricted access to the Internet.
Landon has 150 names on his buddy list!!.. But, he only talks to about 30 of
them.. And, they are all mutual acquaintances of his real time friends ( whom
are the majority of who he talks to online) I think its great that he can
has the opportunity to extend his involvement with others to the far corners
of the world. He doesnt go into chat rooms, ( except to goof off, like in
the beanie babies chat room.. thats another story. lol) He much perfers the
one on one of email or instant messanger. We REALLY need to get another
computer! This one is hard to spread around between 6 people.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
passwords. They do know mine. They don't check on me either.
Same here.. and I agree with everything else you said about "Internet safety"
I dont want to make light of anyones fears of Internet predators or
security risks, but , in fact that are pretty minimal. If someone wants to
find out your ( or your teens) address, phone number, etc.. they can easily
without you divulging it. Folks on the Internet are no more "risky" than
folks in real life. My kids have unrestricted access to the Internet.
Landon has 150 names on his buddy list!!.. But, he only talks to about 30 of
them.. And, they are all mutual acquaintances of his real time friends ( whom
are the majority of who he talks to online) I think its great that he can
has the opportunity to extend his involvement with others to the far corners
of the world. He doesnt go into chat rooms, ( except to goof off, like in
the beanie babies chat room.. thats another story. lol) He much perfers the
one on one of email or instant messanger. We REALLY need to get another
computer! This one is hard to spread around between 6 people.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
I probably should clarify something. When I said the friend was afraid of going home, it was because of her father's anger, not because she was worried about internet predators.
Kristen
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Have a Nice Day!
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
Well, I can't offer a whole lot of wisdom on this. In fact, I'm kind of sitting with you in this boat.
Last week, my daughter and her friend were on habbo-hotel and came across a way to have habbo credits to buy furniture, etc. It involved ordering a splashtastic card, which meant they had to supply a mailing address (personal info).
Well, I was sitting right behind them but I was doing cross stitch and it somehow didn't register with me that they were going to have to give personal information for this (when my daughter explained it to her brother).
Anyway, the next day, the other girl's mom called me and told me her husband receives all of her daughter's emails so that they can keep track of what she is doing. I understand the safety issue, but I still will not do that. (My daughter later asked me if I was monitoring *her* emails and I said "no". She was glad about that and I felt I had earned her trust).
The father went ballistic to the mother, and the mother called me (but was very reasonable about the whole thing). I just reminded my daughter (and her friend) that its not safe to give out that kind of info. Meanwhile, her friend was afraid to go home. I asked that in the future whenever she has to fill out a form that she come and get me so I can check it out. She was ok with it, and we discussed the habbo hotel credits and thats when we learned that 9 British pounds was $14.00. And from there we moved on. No big deal.
My point is that I too give my kids a lot of freedom, much more so than their peers have. And I'm starting to just accept the fact that other parents are going to think I'm irresponsible.
They think that way for no other reason than the fundamental belief here that kids are evil until forced to be good, and that they are only capable of getting in trouble unless an adult restrains them.
I'm getting to the point where I'm not going to apologize for letting my kids have all this freedom. Apparently G-d thinks I have what it takes to parent the children he gave to me. So boo hiss on those who disagree.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Robyn Carter
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 6:27 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robyn Carter" <rcarter@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 12:54 PM
Subject: Teens?
> Happy Holidays to all you unschooling parents and families! I have a
subject
> I'd love some input from this list on, especially Sandra and Tuck's
wisdom.
> We re in a new community, very conservative compared to where we came
from.
> My oldest dd became a teen over the summer. The question I have is when
does
> staying connected with your teen become smothering? She seems to have WAY
> more freedom then any of the other teens we've met here, even though
several
> of them are unschoolers. Okay, there were a couple of "incidents", one
> involving hand holding, and another involving a truth or dare Jenga game
(I
> hadn't played it with her, or looked at it after it came out of the box).
> Both of these "incidents" were very brief, lasting about 5 mins. before an
> adult became involved. Do I have a perverse child? Am I an unaware parent?
I
> try to keep my relationship with her based on mutual trust, but it seems
> like everyone here is hovering, waiting for something awful to happen.
> Although what that would be I'm not sure...I'm being vague in case some
one
> on this list happens to be one of those parents, but really, now that I'm
> typing it, it was that innocent. Give me some feedback!!
> Robyn, wearing a disguise as I type :-))
>
>
>
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/02 12:38:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
I understood that.. I think we sort of got off on an Internet "tangent" As
far as teens supervision ( or lack thereof) My 16 yo son doesnt really have
any supervision when he goes out. I trust him and I trust his judgement.
He always calls to let me know if he's going to be out later than he
expected. I know which of his friends engage in behavior that entails bad
choice. He has called me to come get him before when he was sick of being
around pot smokers. I took him to meet a friend (Matt) yesterday ( who
happens to be 20, and in college) and Matt was supposed to bring him home
last night.. Around 11 last night, Landon called and said they were at a
local coffee shop and the he decided to just spend the night with Matt. That
was fine with me. Matt brought him home this morning and he told me all
about what they did yesterday. ( well what he wanted to share, that is.. lol)
I believe you said your daughter is 13. My daughter, Anna is 13 too. Her
social activties include sleepovers with her friends, or days out with them..
or them coming over here. There are usually parents around somewhere as we
have to chauffer them around. .lol.. but we dont hang around unless the girls
want us to. I am not really clear on what happened with the "incidents"
with your daughter.. You mentioned hand holding.. Gee, thats what 13 yos do..
:-) I dont know what is perverse at all about that. I remember playing
spin the bottle when I was that age.. ( gosh, what fun.. hehe) I think as
long as you are open and accepting of your daughter, she will give you the
clues as to how much she needs you around. I took Anna to her first dance
in October. She wanted me to stay. I had planned on just dropping her off,
but staying was cool too.. There were others mothers there that had INSISTED
on staying. Anna asked me to stay, I think she just felt more comfortable
with me "there" And the kids all got a big kick out of disco Moma, cuz I
sure didnt sit around and gossip with the other mothers.about how some
mothers just dropped thier kids off and had no idea what goes on in thier
lives. I was thinking.. What IS going on?? they are dancing for goodness
sakes! . LOL We both had a lot of fun, and I got the nickname "Dancing
Queen" The next day, Anna went over to her friend Lauren's house and they
went to a Halloween party at another friends house.. I dont know the girl or
her parents, but they had a lot of fun. Maybe I am too trusting, but I just
know my kids well enough to know that they will do the right thing..And if
the don't. they know that I am here to help them through it, not judge them.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> I probably should clarify something. When I said the friend was afraid ofKristen,
> going home, it was because of her father's anger, not because she was
> worried about internet predators.
>
> Kristen
>
I understood that.. I think we sort of got off on an Internet "tangent" As
far as teens supervision ( or lack thereof) My 16 yo son doesnt really have
any supervision when he goes out. I trust him and I trust his judgement.
He always calls to let me know if he's going to be out later than he
expected. I know which of his friends engage in behavior that entails bad
choice. He has called me to come get him before when he was sick of being
around pot smokers. I took him to meet a friend (Matt) yesterday ( who
happens to be 20, and in college) and Matt was supposed to bring him home
last night.. Around 11 last night, Landon called and said they were at a
local coffee shop and the he decided to just spend the night with Matt. That
was fine with me. Matt brought him home this morning and he told me all
about what they did yesterday. ( well what he wanted to share, that is.. lol)
I believe you said your daughter is 13. My daughter, Anna is 13 too. Her
social activties include sleepovers with her friends, or days out with them..
or them coming over here. There are usually parents around somewhere as we
have to chauffer them around. .lol.. but we dont hang around unless the girls
want us to. I am not really clear on what happened with the "incidents"
with your daughter.. You mentioned hand holding.. Gee, thats what 13 yos do..
:-) I dont know what is perverse at all about that. I remember playing
spin the bottle when I was that age.. ( gosh, what fun.. hehe) I think as
long as you are open and accepting of your daughter, she will give you the
clues as to how much she needs you around. I took Anna to her first dance
in October. She wanted me to stay. I had planned on just dropping her off,
but staying was cool too.. There were others mothers there that had INSISTED
on staying. Anna asked me to stay, I think she just felt more comfortable
with me "there" And the kids all got a big kick out of disco Moma, cuz I
sure didnt sit around and gossip with the other mothers.about how some
mothers just dropped thier kids off and had no idea what goes on in thier
lives. I was thinking.. What IS going on?? they are dancing for goodness
sakes! . LOL We both had a lot of fun, and I got the nickname "Dancing
Queen" The next day, Anna went over to her friend Lauren's house and they
went to a Halloween party at another friends house.. I dont know the girl or
her parents, but they had a lot of fun. Maybe I am too trusting, but I just
know my kids well enough to know that they will do the right thing..And if
the don't. they know that I am here to help them through it, not judge them.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: SandraDodd@...<<The internet horror stories I've heard seemed always to involve a teenager
who was profoundly unhappy and whose parents weren't communicating with
them, or kids who were frequently grounded and stuck in their rooms, and so
ANYONE with a plan to get them out and to listen to them seemed like a
glowing savior>>
Okay I know some of this is really hard to apply here because again I'm
talking about a school kid not raised the same as my other children. But,
when my daughter was about 12-13, her and her friend would go online at the
friends house. Neither girl was restricted much although they both got
grounded from time to time. Anyway, they met these two boys online and
actually made arrangements to meet them at the local movie theater one
night. It was a night of a group movie with their friends. I found out about
it (I snooped) and the other mom and I put a stop to them going. They said
they didn't think anyone would actually show and thought it was no big deal.
I was upset over how stupid they were when it came to that. Out on the
street, she was cautious, on line she wasn't.
I snooped quite a bit with that child. I bugged the phone and found out some
stuff that was very upsetting. A lot of what I found out wasn't. My daughter
and I still laugh at her calling me "the biggest butt in the world" to a
friend over the phone. Luckily we have both recovered from all our wrong
doings and are strong in spite of it. We are very close and that always
makes me aware that it's never too late, no matter how much damage has been
done, to bond with my child.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
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Have a Nice Day!
My daughter is 10, not 13. Her friend is 9. But I'm not sure what "incidents' you are referring to. I am guessing someone else posted about that.
Just wanted to mention it in case it confused anyone.
Kristen
Just wanted to mention it in case it confused anyone.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: grlynbl@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
In a message dated 12/22/02 12:38:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
> I probably should clarify something. When I said the friend was afraid of
> going home, it was because of her father's anger, not because she was
> worried about internet predators.
>
> Kristen
>
Kristen,
I understood that.. I think we sort of got off on an Internet "tangent" As
far as teens supervision ( or lack thereof) My 16 yo son doesnt really have
any supervision when he goes out. I trust him and I trust his judgement.
He always calls to let me know if he's going to be out later than he
expected. I know which of his friends engage in behavior that entails bad
choice. He has called me to come get him before when he was sick of being
around pot smokers. I took him to meet a friend (Matt) yesterday ( who
happens to be 20, and in college) and Matt was supposed to bring him home
last night.. Around 11 last night, Landon called and said they were at a
local coffee shop and the he decided to just spend the night with Matt. That
was fine with me. Matt brought him home this morning and he told me all
about what they did yesterday. ( well what he wanted to share, that is.. lol)
I believe you said your daughter is 13. My daughter, Anna is 13 too. Her
social activties include sleepovers with her friends, or days out with them..
or them coming over here. There are usually parents around somewhere as we
have to chauffer them around. .lol.. but we dont hang around unless the girls
want us to. I am not really clear on what happened with the "incidents"
with your daughter.. You mentioned hand holding.. Gee, thats what 13 yos do..
:-) I dont know what is perverse at all about that. I remember playing
spin the bottle when I was that age.. ( gosh, what fun.. hehe) I think as
long as you are open and accepting of your daughter, she will give you the
clues as to how much she needs you around. I took Anna to her first dance
in October. She wanted me to stay. I had planned on just dropping her off,
but staying was cool too.. There were others mothers there that had INSISTED
on staying. Anna asked me to stay, I think she just felt more comfortable
with me "there" And the kids all got a big kick out of disco Moma, cuz I
sure didnt sit around and gossip with the other mothers.about how some
mothers just dropped thier kids off and had no idea what goes on in thier
lives. I was thinking.. What IS going on?? they are dancing for goodness
sakes! . LOL We both had a lot of fun, and I got the nickname "Dancing
Queen" The next day, Anna went over to her friend Lauren's house and they
went to a Halloween party at another friends house.. I dont know the girl or
her parents, but they had a lot of fun. Maybe I am too trusting, but I just
know my kids well enough to know that they will do the right thing..And if
the don't. they know that I am here to help them through it, not judge them.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
Yes, and this has been an occurrence here too to some degree. My son and a girl in VA exchanged phone numbers. I don't have a problem with that, but we don't really know who this girl is, or if she's really in VA, or even if she's really a "girl" and not someone else.
My kids would be the ones who would make arrangements like the one with the movie theater because its "exciting". I don't think it has anything to do with how things are at home. Its just one more thrill, and my kids are thrill seekers.
Our street address is *not* in the phone book, nor is it available online. And whatever address we have is associated with my husband's name, or mine...not the kids'. I plan on keeping it that way.
Kristen
My kids would be the ones who would make arrangements like the one with the movie theater because its "exciting". I don't think it has anything to do with how things are at home. Its just one more thrill, and my kids are thrill seekers.
Our street address is *not* in the phone book, nor is it available online. And whatever address we have is associated with my husband's name, or mine...not the kids'. I plan on keeping it that way.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Bianco
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
>From: SandraDodd@...
<<The internet horror stories I've heard seemed always to involve a teenager
who was profoundly unhappy and whose parents weren't communicating with
them, or kids who were frequently grounded and stuck in their rooms, and so
ANYONE with a plan to get them out and to listen to them seemed like a
glowing savior>>
Okay I know some of this is really hard to apply here because again I'm
talking about a school kid not raised the same as my other children. But,
when my daughter was about 12-13, her and her friend would go online at the
friends house. Neither girl was restricted much although they both got
grounded from time to time. Anyway, they met these two boys online and
actually made arrangements to meet them at the local movie theater one
night. It was a night of a group movie with their friends. I found out about
it (I snooped) and the other mom and I put a stop to them going. They said
they didn't think anyone would actually show and thought it was no big deal.
I was upset over how stupid they were when it came to that. Out on the
street, she was cautious, on line she wasn't.
I snooped quite a bit with that child. I bugged the phone and found out some
stuff that was very upsetting. A lot of what I found out wasn't. My daughter
and I still laugh at her calling me "the biggest butt in the world" to a
friend over the phone. Luckily we have both recovered from all our wrong
doings and are strong in spite of it. We are very close and that always
makes me aware that it's never too late, no matter how much damage has been
done, to bond with my child.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
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If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Carter
Hiya Teresa;
I was the one that started the original thread about Teens, and I wasn't
talking about Internet stuff, although it's okay with me that we've gone
there, too. It's good to hear that their are other parents out there who
don't feel they must be with their children every minute. my daughter has
always had freedom to be with her friends, sometimes with me there, too, but
often without me. I mean in her room, or at the skating rink, Kmart, the
movies. I have always trusted her, and when she's needed information or help
she's asked me for it. As I said, we are in a new community, and the parents
here are not as relaxed. Not relaxed at all, and i don't get what they think
these kids are going to do. My daughter was "caught" holding hands with a 12
year old boy at the movies, when the mother turned who'd taken them turned
around and they both jumped. This has now turned into a really big deal,
with the boys mother not wanting them to be together. I've also heard that
other girls have been told not to be in my daughters bedroom when a boy is
there with them, too. And, friends of hers, girls, that are younger have
been forbidden to play with her anymore, "because she's at a different
stage"! I am mostly shocked that homeschooling, unschooling parents are this
way, whatever way this is. What about trust? The infamous "Jenga incident",
was blown way out of proportion, too. It was the Truth or Dare version,
which wasn't really the one dd had wanted, but was the only one the store
had when we went to get it. Nothing happened when the game came out at a
party dd was having, with about 8 or 9 teens, 2 or 3 of them boys. But, the
two parents who had stayed (one of them completely afraid to let her
daughters out of her sight EVER!), freaked out. It's an adult game! it's
inappropriate! it's not wholesome! so, I've been feeling like a completely
checked out mom, who doesn't supervise my child's every move. No one from
our old community was this way at all-okay, there was one weird dad who
insisted his daughters go everywhere together, and he'd wait in the car
outside while they played at a friends, but we all knew he was weird. Okay,
enough ranting for now. Thanks for listening.
Robyn
I was the one that started the original thread about Teens, and I wasn't
talking about Internet stuff, although it's okay with me that we've gone
there, too. It's good to hear that their are other parents out there who
don't feel they must be with their children every minute. my daughter has
always had freedom to be with her friends, sometimes with me there, too, but
often without me. I mean in her room, or at the skating rink, Kmart, the
movies. I have always trusted her, and when she's needed information or help
she's asked me for it. As I said, we are in a new community, and the parents
here are not as relaxed. Not relaxed at all, and i don't get what they think
these kids are going to do. My daughter was "caught" holding hands with a 12
year old boy at the movies, when the mother turned who'd taken them turned
around and they both jumped. This has now turned into a really big deal,
with the boys mother not wanting them to be together. I've also heard that
other girls have been told not to be in my daughters bedroom when a boy is
there with them, too. And, friends of hers, girls, that are younger have
been forbidden to play with her anymore, "because she's at a different
stage"! I am mostly shocked that homeschooling, unschooling parents are this
way, whatever way this is. What about trust? The infamous "Jenga incident",
was blown way out of proportion, too. It was the Truth or Dare version,
which wasn't really the one dd had wanted, but was the only one the store
had when we went to get it. Nothing happened when the game came out at a
party dd was having, with about 8 or 9 teens, 2 or 3 of them boys. But, the
two parents who had stayed (one of them completely afraid to let her
daughters out of her sight EVER!), freaked out. It's an adult game! it's
inappropriate! it's not wholesome! so, I've been feeling like a completely
checked out mom, who doesn't supervise my child's every move. No one from
our old community was this way at all-okay, there was one weird dad who
insisted his daughters go everywhere together, and he'd wait in the car
outside while they played at a friends, but we all knew he was weird. Okay,
enough ranting for now. Thanks for listening.
Robyn
----- Original Message -----
From: <grlynbl@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
> In a message dated 12/22/02 12:38:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> litlrooh@... writes:
>
> > I probably should clarify something. When I said the friend was afraid
of
> > going home, it was because of her father's anger, not because she was
> > worried about internet predators.
> >
> > Kristen
> >
>
> Kristen,
> I understood that.. I think we sort of got off on an Internet "tangent"
As
> far as teens supervision ( or lack thereof) My 16 yo son doesnt really
have
> any supervision when he goes out. I trust him and I trust his judgement.
> He always calls to let me know if he's going to be out later than he
> expected. I know which of his friends engage in behavior that entails
bad
> choice. He has called me to come get him before when he was sick of being
> around pot smokers. I took him to meet a friend (Matt) yesterday ( who
> happens to be 20, and in college) and Matt was supposed to bring him home
> last night.. Around 11 last night, Landon called and said they were at a
> local coffee shop and the he decided to just spend the night with Matt.
That
> was fine with me. Matt brought him home this morning and he told me all
> about what they did yesterday. ( well what he wanted to share, that is..
lol)
>
>
> I believe you said your daughter is 13. My daughter, Anna is 13 too. Her
> social activties include sleepovers with her friends, or days out with
them..
> or them coming over here. There are usually parents around somewhere as
we
> have to chauffer them around. .lol.. but we dont hang around unless the
girls
> want us to. I am not really clear on what happened with the "incidents"
> with your daughter.. You mentioned hand holding.. Gee, thats what 13 yos
do..
> :-) I dont know what is perverse at all about that. I remember
playing
> spin the bottle when I was that age.. ( gosh, what fun.. hehe) I think
as
> long as you are open and accepting of your daughter, she will give you the
> clues as to how much she needs you around. I took Anna to her first
dance
> in October. She wanted me to stay. I had planned on just dropping her
off,
> but staying was cool too.. There were others mothers there that had
INSISTED
> on staying. Anna asked me to stay, I think she just felt more
comfortable
> with me "there" And the kids all got a big kick out of disco Moma, cuz I
> sure didnt sit around and gossip with the other mothers.about how some
> mothers just dropped thier kids off and had no idea what goes on in thier
> lives. I was thinking.. What IS going on?? they are dancing for goodness
> sakes! . LOL We both had a lot of fun, and I got the nickname "Dancing
> Queen" The next day, Anna went over to her friend Lauren's house and they
> went to a Halloween party at another friends house.. I dont know the girl
or
> her parents, but they had a lot of fun. Maybe I am too trusting, but I
just
> know my kids well enough to know that they will do the right thing..And if
> the don't. they know that I am here to help them through it, not judge
them.
>
> Teresa
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Have a Nice Day!
Hmmmm,
Now see, I *do* find that when my kids and their friends (who are the opposite sex) spend time together "alone" in the house (like in the basement) they are doing things they ought not to be doing.
I've caught them on a few occasions doing more than just holding hands.
So, I did trust them initially, but they have broken that trust and due to the fact that the *other* kids very often don't have the same freedoms mine have, I'm thinking that they are exploiting the freedom in my house to do some "interactive exploring" that otherwise might not occur.
Kristen
Now see, I *do* find that when my kids and their friends (who are the opposite sex) spend time together "alone" in the house (like in the basement) they are doing things they ought not to be doing.
I've caught them on a few occasions doing more than just holding hands.
So, I did trust them initially, but they have broken that trust and due to the fact that the *other* kids very often don't have the same freedoms mine have, I'm thinking that they are exploiting the freedom in my house to do some "interactive exploring" that otherwise might not occur.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Robyn Carter
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
Hiya Teresa;
I was the one that started the original thread about Teens, and I wasn't
talking about Internet stuff, although it's okay with me that we've gone
there, too. It's good to hear that their are other parents out there who
don't feel they must be with their children every minute. my daughter has
always had freedom to be with her friends, sometimes with me there, too, but
often without me. I mean in her room, or at the skating rink, Kmart, the
movies. I have always trusted her, and when she's needed information or help
she's asked me for it. As I said, we are in a new community, and the parents
here are not as relaxed. Not relaxed at all, and i don't get what they think
these kids are going to do. My daughter was "caught" holding hands with a 12
year old boy at the movies, when the mother turned who'd taken them turned
around and they both jumped. This has now turned into a really big deal,
with the boys mother not wanting them to be together. I've also heard that
other girls have been told not to be in my daughters bedroom when a boy is
there with them, too. And, friends of hers, girls, that are younger have
been forbidden to play with her anymore, "because she's at a different
stage"! I am mostly shocked that homeschooling, unschooling parents are this
way, whatever way this is. What about trust? The infamous "Jenga incident",
was blown way out of proportion, too. It was the Truth or Dare version,
which wasn't really the one dd had wanted, but was the only one the store
had when we went to get it. Nothing happened when the game came out at a
party dd was having, with about 8 or 9 teens, 2 or 3 of them boys. But, the
two parents who had stayed (one of them completely afraid to let her
daughters out of her sight EVER!), freaked out. It's an adult game! it's
inappropriate! it's not wholesome! so, I've been feeling like a completely
checked out mom, who doesn't supervise my child's every move. No one from
our old community was this way at all-okay, there was one weird dad who
insisted his daughters go everywhere together, and he'd wait in the car
outside while they played at a friends, but we all knew he was weird. Okay,
enough ranting for now. Thanks for listening.
Robyn
----- Original Message -----
From: <grlynbl@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
> In a message dated 12/22/02 12:38:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> litlrooh@... writes:
>
> > I probably should clarify something. When I said the friend was afraid
of
> > going home, it was because of her father's anger, not because she was
> > worried about internet predators.
> >
> > Kristen
> >
>
> Kristen,
> I understood that.. I think we sort of got off on an Internet "tangent"
As
> far as teens supervision ( or lack thereof) My 16 yo son doesnt really
have
> any supervision when he goes out. I trust him and I trust his judgement.
> He always calls to let me know if he's going to be out later than he
> expected. I know which of his friends engage in behavior that entails
bad
> choice. He has called me to come get him before when he was sick of being
> around pot smokers. I took him to meet a friend (Matt) yesterday ( who
> happens to be 20, and in college) and Matt was supposed to bring him home
> last night.. Around 11 last night, Landon called and said they were at a
> local coffee shop and the he decided to just spend the night with Matt.
That
> was fine with me. Matt brought him home this morning and he told me all
> about what they did yesterday. ( well what he wanted to share, that is..
lol)
>
>
> I believe you said your daughter is 13. My daughter, Anna is 13 too. Her
> social activties include sleepovers with her friends, or days out with
them..
> or them coming over here. There are usually parents around somewhere as
we
> have to chauffer them around. .lol.. but we dont hang around unless the
girls
> want us to. I am not really clear on what happened with the "incidents"
> with your daughter.. You mentioned hand holding.. Gee, thats what 13 yos
do..
> :-) I dont know what is perverse at all about that. I remember
playing
> spin the bottle when I was that age.. ( gosh, what fun.. hehe) I think
as
> long as you are open and accepting of your daughter, she will give you the
> clues as to how much she needs you around. I took Anna to her first
dance
> in October. She wanted me to stay. I had planned on just dropping her
off,
> but staying was cool too.. There were others mothers there that had
INSISTED
> on staying. Anna asked me to stay, I think she just felt more
comfortable
> with me "there" And the kids all got a big kick out of disco Moma, cuz I
> sure didnt sit around and gossip with the other mothers.about how some
> mothers just dropped thier kids off and had no idea what goes on in thier
> lives. I was thinking.. What IS going on?? they are dancing for goodness
> sakes! . LOL We both had a lot of fun, and I got the nickname "Dancing
> Queen" The next day, Anna went over to her friend Lauren's house and they
> went to a Halloween party at another friends house.. I dont know the girl
or
> her parents, but they had a lot of fun. Maybe I am too trusting, but I
just
> know my kids well enough to know that they will do the right thing..And if
> the don't. they know that I am here to help them through it, not judge
them.
>
> Teresa
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>opposite sex) spend time together "alone" in the house (like in the
> Now see, I *do* find that when my kids and their friends (who are the
basement) they are doing things they ought not to be doing.
>Even if you patrol teens constantly, they're going to find ways to do things
> I've caught them on a few occasions doing more than just holding hands.
their parents don't want them to do. I'm thinking of some of the things I
did, like waiting until the rest of the family had gone to bed, then
sneaking up to my attic room with my boyfriend to spend the night. I'd go
down and have breakfast with the family, then my boyfriend would come down
when they'd all left the house, as if he had just arrived at the house that
day. (This was age 16.) Since my son is likely to be able to "get away"
with just about anything he really wants to do, I'd rather just trust him to
do the right thing.
The one most important thing my mother did with me was let me know that she
believed in me, that I would stay out of trouble, that I could get myself
out of trouble if I did get into any, and that I would know to ask for help
if I couldn't. I didn't always live up to those beliefs, but I think I did
better that way than if she had been constantly on my case. (I think she
would have been ok with my becoming sexually active if I'd told her, but my
sister had scared me by saying I'd be grounded forever if she found out.)
Tia
Mary Bianco
Hi Robyn,
I think those parents are making such a big deal out of nothing. Holding
hands and Truth or Dare Jenga???? Please, how stupid is that to get upset
about.
I think you are right in seeing it as no big deal. Too bad your daughter has
to suffer for it though by kids not being allowed to be around her. I would
say try real hard to find her some new friends. They are going to make your
poor daughter paranoid about nothing.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
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I think those parents are making such a big deal out of nothing. Holding
hands and Truth or Dare Jenga???? Please, how stupid is that to get upset
about.
I think you are right in seeing it as no big deal. Too bad your daughter has
to suffer for it though by kids not being allowed to be around her. I would
say try real hard to find her some new friends. They are going to make your
poor daughter paranoid about nothing.
Mary B
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In a message dated 12/22/02 10:38:21 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< When I said the friend was afraid of going home, it was because of her
father's anger, not because she was worried about internet predators.
What kinds of kids run away? Those who are less afraid of dark alleys and
strangers than they are of their own families.
Sandra
<< When I said the friend was afraid of going home, it was because of her
father's anger, not because she was worried about internet predators.
>>So which is worse?
What kinds of kids run away? Those who are less afraid of dark alleys and
strangers than they are of their own families.
Sandra
Have a Nice Day!
In a message dated 12/22/02 10:38:21 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< When I said the friend was afraid of going home, it was because of her
father's anger, not because she was worried about internet predators.
What kinds of kids run away? Those who are less afraid of dark alleys and
strangers than they are of their own families. <<<<
Oh I agree with you Sandra. I was just pointing out that although we had the same safety concerns, we each handled it differently, and it made a difference in how our kids responded to us.
I can see seeds of rebellion being planted and I can see what is coming down the road. That child confides in me when she should be able to confide in her parents.
That is not to say I'm perfect, far from it!!!! In fact, I reverted back to my old ways just today with my daughter so now I have to go talk to her about that ;o)
kristen
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<< When I said the friend was afraid of going home, it was because of her
father's anger, not because she was worried about internet predators.
>>So which is worse?
What kinds of kids run away? Those who are less afraid of dark alleys and
strangers than they are of their own families. <<<<
Oh I agree with you Sandra. I was just pointing out that although we had the same safety concerns, we each handled it differently, and it made a difference in how our kids responded to us.
I can see seeds of rebellion being planted and I can see what is coming down the road. That child confides in me when she should be able to confide in her parents.
That is not to say I'm perfect, far from it!!!! In fact, I reverted back to my old ways just today with my daughter so now I have to go talk to her about that ;o)
kristen
Sandra
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/02 11:36:31 AM, rcarter@... writes:
<< My daughter was "caught" holding hands with a 12
year old boy at the movies, when the mother turned who'd taken them turned
around and they both jumped. This has now turned into a really big deal,
with the boys mother not wanting them to be together. >>
Perhaps I'm uncharitable in this kind of summary, but generalizing from
everyone I went to school with, my sister's friends who got in trouble, the
batch of homeschoolers who have grown into teens with my kids, etc., I truly
and honestly think this:
It is much more likely that the actions cited above, making a big deal about
handholding, will lead to teen pregnancy or impregnation WAY sooner than a
lighter attitude about teens growing up.
If there's nothing to be sneaky about, kids won't be sneaky. IF they have to
be TOTALLY sneaky even to stand and lean on a wall with a kid of the opposite
sex, if NOTHING they do is okay, and the parents won't really discuss or
consider it, just say NO to them, then once they're sneaking, why should they
limit themselves to just holding hands? They will have an urgency and a
desperation (and an ignorance, in many cases) that the kids whose parents are
calm and open couldn't even imagine having.
Privileges doled out in small doses make that thing (whether it's dating or
food or video games or anything) seem HUGEly important an valuable.
Here's another example on the video game evidence. Two boys who come over
sometimes, the younger brothers of one of Holly's friends, always played
video games every single time they came over. They might hang out with Holly
and their sister, too, maybe 1/3 of the time or less, or go out in the yard,
but their main interest here was video games.
Friday they were being babysat, in my absence while I went to a movie with my
husband and Marty. So Holly was here, these three kids, and two teens I
arranged with to come and hang out. The boy of the teens was prepared to
help them get video games set up, whichever system they wanted.
They kids were in the library making up a play to videotape. When the teens
got here, they went up, took a look, the kids were totally engrossed in their
project, and Holly didn't even think to introduce them to their babysitter
(one of the aforementioned unschooled kids, who's 18 now).
So the teens went and played video games in Kirby's room.
Side note: The kids are 16 and 18. A boy and a girl. Their parents knew
they might be with a member of the opposite sex with no adult supervision
(they WERE the "adult supervision") but neither parent probably even thought
for a second. Usually the girls, and maybe one or three other girls, is over
here with three to seven teenaged boys and older anyway---
So... it turned out that althought the four younger kids broke for lunch
three hours into the four hours (commenting that they were surprised it was
already 1:00 and they should eat), they went back in the library and finished
their movie, which runs about six minutes and is really funny.
Neither boy asked to play video games. Neither said "video games."
Here is why:
A few weeks ago they got a Playstation. Just a used Playstation I, but
because they have video games at their house now, our house has opened up to
limitless possibilities, instead of just the desperate grab for video-game
time.
And the same with mixed-groups of teenagers. If they're used to being with
kids of the opposite sex, they're willing to do LOTS of things when they get
one-on-one instead of just hold hands or be mushy. And if they assume/trust
that they will get to be with those kids again whenever it can be arranged
without the parents freaking out, they will be WAY more calm about what they
do or don't do on any given day.
Sandra
<< My daughter was "caught" holding hands with a 12
year old boy at the movies, when the mother turned who'd taken them turned
around and they both jumped. This has now turned into a really big deal,
with the boys mother not wanting them to be together. >>
Perhaps I'm uncharitable in this kind of summary, but generalizing from
everyone I went to school with, my sister's friends who got in trouble, the
batch of homeschoolers who have grown into teens with my kids, etc., I truly
and honestly think this:
It is much more likely that the actions cited above, making a big deal about
handholding, will lead to teen pregnancy or impregnation WAY sooner than a
lighter attitude about teens growing up.
If there's nothing to be sneaky about, kids won't be sneaky. IF they have to
be TOTALLY sneaky even to stand and lean on a wall with a kid of the opposite
sex, if NOTHING they do is okay, and the parents won't really discuss or
consider it, just say NO to them, then once they're sneaking, why should they
limit themselves to just holding hands? They will have an urgency and a
desperation (and an ignorance, in many cases) that the kids whose parents are
calm and open couldn't even imagine having.
Privileges doled out in small doses make that thing (whether it's dating or
food or video games or anything) seem HUGEly important an valuable.
Here's another example on the video game evidence. Two boys who come over
sometimes, the younger brothers of one of Holly's friends, always played
video games every single time they came over. They might hang out with Holly
and their sister, too, maybe 1/3 of the time or less, or go out in the yard,
but their main interest here was video games.
Friday they were being babysat, in my absence while I went to a movie with my
husband and Marty. So Holly was here, these three kids, and two teens I
arranged with to come and hang out. The boy of the teens was prepared to
help them get video games set up, whichever system they wanted.
They kids were in the library making up a play to videotape. When the teens
got here, they went up, took a look, the kids were totally engrossed in their
project, and Holly didn't even think to introduce them to their babysitter
(one of the aforementioned unschooled kids, who's 18 now).
So the teens went and played video games in Kirby's room.
Side note: The kids are 16 and 18. A boy and a girl. Their parents knew
they might be with a member of the opposite sex with no adult supervision
(they WERE the "adult supervision") but neither parent probably even thought
for a second. Usually the girls, and maybe one or three other girls, is over
here with three to seven teenaged boys and older anyway---
So... it turned out that althought the four younger kids broke for lunch
three hours into the four hours (commenting that they were surprised it was
already 1:00 and they should eat), they went back in the library and finished
their movie, which runs about six minutes and is really funny.
Neither boy asked to play video games. Neither said "video games."
Here is why:
A few weeks ago they got a Playstation. Just a used Playstation I, but
because they have video games at their house now, our house has opened up to
limitless possibilities, instead of just the desperate grab for video-game
time.
And the same with mixed-groups of teenagers. If they're used to being with
kids of the opposite sex, they're willing to do LOTS of things when they get
one-on-one instead of just hold hands or be mushy. And if they assume/trust
that they will get to be with those kids again whenever it can be arranged
without the parents freaking out, they will be WAY more calm about what they
do or don't do on any given day.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/02 11:38:33 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< My kids would be the ones who would make arrangements like the one with
the movie theater because its "exciting". I don't think it has anything to
do with how things are at home. >>
Excitement is a relative thing.
And without the pressure of kids at school or in social groups of kids whose
homelives are restrictive, there's less "value" in reporting what some kids
will consider "excitement."
My nephew has an online girlfriend. They've talked on the phone. The phone
numbers work both ways, they've also talked to each others' friends online
and on the phone. They've sent packages back and forth, and photos by real
mail, but they haven't visited yet. They hope to.
Marty and a friend met some local girls at the mall they had met online.
The girls were really strange in person, they said, so while they did walk
around the mall with them a while, there was a kind of unspoken mutual
consensus that it was just a little meeting and goof-session, and certainly
not the start of any long friendships (and not "a date"). It was okay with
all of them, it seemed, and they were still friends online.
Kirby met teens in person at an anime convention and then had some months of
online friendship-building, then went to Denver to visit them. He had a
great time.
Sandra
<< My kids would be the ones who would make arrangements like the one with
the movie theater because its "exciting". I don't think it has anything to
do with how things are at home. >>
Excitement is a relative thing.
And without the pressure of kids at school or in social groups of kids whose
homelives are restrictive, there's less "value" in reporting what some kids
will consider "excitement."
My nephew has an online girlfriend. They've talked on the phone. The phone
numbers work both ways, they've also talked to each others' friends online
and on the phone. They've sent packages back and forth, and photos by real
mail, but they haven't visited yet. They hope to.
Marty and a friend met some local girls at the mall they had met online.
The girls were really strange in person, they said, so while they did walk
around the mall with them a while, there was a kind of unspoken mutual
consensus that it was just a little meeting and goof-session, and certainly
not the start of any long friendships (and not "a date"). It was okay with
all of them, it seemed, and they were still friends online.
Kirby met teens in person at an anime convention and then had some months of
online friendship-building, then went to Denver to visit them. He had a
great time.
Sandra
kristen seitz
AAAhhhhh finally.
I'm at work now and this darn webmail is really full of glitches.
I did a lot of thinking on the way to work (after I talked with my
daughter). I think too, that kids already do make their own
decisions. They do what is important to them, no matter how much we
adults think we are in control.
The only difference between our kids and those who are more restricted
is how much information they give us. The flow of information is
entirely dependent on trust.
I'll keep what you said in mind Sandra. I truly don't mind if my kids
make friends on the net or talk to each other on the phone, etc. I
think its neat that the entire world is their playground. And
honestly, I've set an example myself because I actually took my kids
and stayed overnight with a family we only knew from online!!!
Actually we've done that 3 times with 3 different families! LOL
They usually always tell me whats going on, so I guess I am still
shedding that thinking that kids can't judge character well, and will
automatically find mischief without me there to butt in LOL. Its
interesting to become aware of this kind of thinking in every day stuff.
Kristen
I'm at work now and this darn webmail is really full of glitches.
I did a lot of thinking on the way to work (after I talked with my
daughter). I think too, that kids already do make their own
decisions. They do what is important to them, no matter how much we
adults think we are in control.
The only difference between our kids and those who are more restricted
is how much information they give us. The flow of information is
entirely dependent on trust.
I'll keep what you said in mind Sandra. I truly don't mind if my kids
make friends on the net or talk to each other on the phone, etc. I
think its neat that the entire world is their playground. And
honestly, I've set an example myself because I actually took my kids
and stayed overnight with a family we only knew from online!!!
Actually we've done that 3 times with 3 different families! LOL
They usually always tell me whats going on, so I guess I am still
shedding that thinking that kids can't judge character well, and will
automatically find mischief without me there to butt in LOL. Its
interesting to become aware of this kind of thinking in every day stuff.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
Date: Sunday, December 22, 2002 2:23 pm
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
> <span><p><span><p>
>
>
> <tt>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/22/02 11:38:33 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
>
>
>
> << My kids would be the ones who would make arrangements like the
> one with
>
> the movie theater because its "exciting". I don't think
> it has anything to
>
> do with how things are at home. >>
>
>
>
> Excitement is a relative thing.
>
>
>
> And without the pressure of kids at school or in social groups of
> kids whose
>
> homelives are restrictive, there's less "value" in
> reporting what some kids
>
> will consider "excitement."
>
>
>
> My nephew has an online girlfriend. They've talked on the phone.
> The phone
>
> numbers work both ways, they've also talked to each others'
> friends online
>
> and on the phone. They've sent packages back and forth, and
> photos by real
>
> mail, but they haven't visited yet. They hope to.
>
>
>
> Marty and a friend met some local girls at the mall they had met
> online.
>
> The girls were really strange in person, they said, so while they
> did walk
>
> around the mall with them a while, there was a kind of unspoken
> mutual
>
> consensus that it was just a little meeting and goof-session, and
> certainly
>
> not the start of any long friendships (and not "a
> date"). It was okay with
>
> all of them, it seemed, and they were still friends online.
>
>
>
> Kirby met teens in person at an anime convention and then had some
> months of
>
> online friendship-building, then went to Denver to visit them. He
> had a
>
> great time.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
>
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or
> the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
> address an email to:
>
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com</tt>
>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.</tt></br>
>
> </span></span>
>
>
Pam Sorooshian
Parents are often the MOST uptight when kids are 11 to 13 or so, though
- so maybe it is not JUST your new location, but also that your
daughter has hit that age. I saw it with both of my older girls'
friends and now am seeing it starting with my younger daughter's
friends, to some degree. She is 11 and her closest friends are 11 to 14.
Partly it is fear of the kids growing up -- it is scary, when you have
a sweet little 10 yo kid, to imagine the stuff that kid is going to
have to deal with very very very soon. An 11 yo who is friends with
people of all ages (as most of our kids are) is going to soon be
hearing stuff about sex and drugs and hearing profanity, etc., and that
can be so unsettling to us parents who (understandably) want to
protect our kids and prolong their childhood.
Also it is not knowing, yet, how to cope with losing control over their
kids. We HAVE to do it - we HAVE to give up control - or we're going to
face huge rebellion issues or create huge problems in our kids' lives
that they'll have to work out as adults. But, still, it is often really
hard to accept that it is time to begin to let go - to begin to let the
kids make mistakes on their own, for example, because it is a guarantee
that allowing freedom means allowing them to make mistakes. Many
parents mentally go from "they will make mistakes" right into "some
mistakes can be deadly" -- and so they become too fearful to gradually
let go.
My daughters friends - 3 or 4 girls and 4 or 5 boys - have wanted to
have a big sleepover somewhere. One of the moms told her kid "No way -
you guys are too old for sleepovers." The kids didn't get what she
meant - "too old???" I'm guessing she meant too old for mixed gender
sleepovers.
I guess people of young teens just don't realize or can't envision that
their kids and their friends will be driving in just such a few short
years and that they will then have their own "space on wheels" and can
pretty much do anything they might want to do. There is simply no such
thing as "parental control" over a kid who has access to a car. So, if
for no other reason, it behooves parents to establish a climate of
trust and confidence and openness and willingness to listen to
anything, right then while their kids are young teens. That is the
critical time, imo, to get things set up so that the later teen years
will be safer and happier. What does it tell a 12 or 13 yo boy, for
example, when he is told he can't be trusted to be around his friends
who are female, at night? Not that I don't know about the sexual
attractions that are revving up at that age - obviously. But the kids
and their parents can work those things out when there is trust on both
sides, when they are talking about this stuff openly. It seems so
obvious that "control" isn't going to work - and that it is better to
begin from early or pre-teen years to build the relationship that
you're going to wish for DURING the later teen years - when a
relationship where parents think they can simply forbid certain
behaviors is unrealistic.
It can be scary to have teenagers moving out into the world where we
can't protect them. But when parents react to that fear by trying to
INCREASE their control over their young teens, I think it is likely to
hurt their relationship with their child and that is much worse. It is
the existence of an essentially strong relationship that is critical -
much more critical than anything else.
Lots of times what I see is parents increasing or fighting to keep
control in the early teen years and then the kid cutting the parent OUT
of their real life in later teen years and adulthood.
All that by way of saying that what you're dealing with is likely to be
people who are in this stage of reacting to the fear of their kid
growing up by trying to control them as much as they can, right now.
I'm not sure how to handle it except to accept it and explain it to my
own kid the best I can.
When
On Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 11:01 AM,
[email protected] wrote:
- so maybe it is not JUST your new location, but also that your
daughter has hit that age. I saw it with both of my older girls'
friends and now am seeing it starting with my younger daughter's
friends, to some degree. She is 11 and her closest friends are 11 to 14.
Partly it is fear of the kids growing up -- it is scary, when you have
a sweet little 10 yo kid, to imagine the stuff that kid is going to
have to deal with very very very soon. An 11 yo who is friends with
people of all ages (as most of our kids are) is going to soon be
hearing stuff about sex and drugs and hearing profanity, etc., and that
can be so unsettling to us parents who (understandably) want to
protect our kids and prolong their childhood.
Also it is not knowing, yet, how to cope with losing control over their
kids. We HAVE to do it - we HAVE to give up control - or we're going to
face huge rebellion issues or create huge problems in our kids' lives
that they'll have to work out as adults. But, still, it is often really
hard to accept that it is time to begin to let go - to begin to let the
kids make mistakes on their own, for example, because it is a guarantee
that allowing freedom means allowing them to make mistakes. Many
parents mentally go from "they will make mistakes" right into "some
mistakes can be deadly" -- and so they become too fearful to gradually
let go.
My daughters friends - 3 or 4 girls and 4 or 5 boys - have wanted to
have a big sleepover somewhere. One of the moms told her kid "No way -
you guys are too old for sleepovers." The kids didn't get what she
meant - "too old???" I'm guessing she meant too old for mixed gender
sleepovers.
I guess people of young teens just don't realize or can't envision that
their kids and their friends will be driving in just such a few short
years and that they will then have their own "space on wheels" and can
pretty much do anything they might want to do. There is simply no such
thing as "parental control" over a kid who has access to a car. So, if
for no other reason, it behooves parents to establish a climate of
trust and confidence and openness and willingness to listen to
anything, right then while their kids are young teens. That is the
critical time, imo, to get things set up so that the later teen years
will be safer and happier. What does it tell a 12 or 13 yo boy, for
example, when he is told he can't be trusted to be around his friends
who are female, at night? Not that I don't know about the sexual
attractions that are revving up at that age - obviously. But the kids
and their parents can work those things out when there is trust on both
sides, when they are talking about this stuff openly. It seems so
obvious that "control" isn't going to work - and that it is better to
begin from early or pre-teen years to build the relationship that
you're going to wish for DURING the later teen years - when a
relationship where parents think they can simply forbid certain
behaviors is unrealistic.
It can be scary to have teenagers moving out into the world where we
can't protect them. But when parents react to that fear by trying to
INCREASE their control over their young teens, I think it is likely to
hurt their relationship with their child and that is much worse. It is
the existence of an essentially strong relationship that is critical -
much more critical than anything else.
Lots of times what I see is parents increasing or fighting to keep
control in the early teen years and then the kid cutting the parent OUT
of their real life in later teen years and adulthood.
All that by way of saying that what you're dealing with is likely to be
people who are in this stage of reacting to the fear of their kid
growing up by trying to control them as much as they can, right now.
I'm not sure how to handle it except to accept it and explain it to my
own kid the best I can.
When
On Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 11:01 AM,
[email protected] wrote:
> As I said, we are in a new community, and the parents
> here are not as relaxed. Not relaxed at all, and i don't get what they
> think
> these kids are going to do. My daughter was "caught" holding hands
> with a 12
> year old boy at the movies, when the mother turned who'd taken them
> turned
> around and they both jumped. This has now turned into a really big
> deal,
> with the boys mother not wanting them to be together. I've also heard
> that
> other girls have been told not to be in my daughters bedroom when a
> boy is
> there with them, too.
Pam Sorooshian
Would they not even tell you? They'd go to a theater under false
pretenses - with a group - but intending to meet some internet buddies?
That is not thrill-seeking - that is not understanding standard safe
living and not sharing something with parents.
My daughters (and I) have met LOTS of people over the internet. Heck, I
met Sandra that way - after reading stuff she was writing on the old
AOL hsing boards, I read that she was coming to Los Angeles and I
insisted on going to the airport and picking her and her family up and
taking them to their hotel.
My 15 yo talks on the phone occasionally to her internet buddies? These
are people she has gotten to know online - not strangers. She isn't
doing it secretly. She's saying, "MOM -- guess WHAT?? My friend Ingrid
is going to call me from Norway on Sunday."
Long ago we talked about online safety -- they are sensible and savvy
and there is not going to be any sneaking around to meet anybody
they've met online. But we've had people come stay at our house --
people the kids only knew online before that. It has worked out well -
some have become good friends and other online friendships faded away
after in-person meetings.
--pam
On Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 11:01 AM,
[email protected] wrote:
pretenses - with a group - but intending to meet some internet buddies?
That is not thrill-seeking - that is not understanding standard safe
living and not sharing something with parents.
My daughters (and I) have met LOTS of people over the internet. Heck, I
met Sandra that way - after reading stuff she was writing on the old
AOL hsing boards, I read that she was coming to Los Angeles and I
insisted on going to the airport and picking her and her family up and
taking them to their hotel.
My 15 yo talks on the phone occasionally to her internet buddies? These
are people she has gotten to know online - not strangers. She isn't
doing it secretly. She's saying, "MOM -- guess WHAT?? My friend Ingrid
is going to call me from Norway on Sunday."
Long ago we talked about online safety -- they are sensible and savvy
and there is not going to be any sneaking around to meet anybody
they've met online. But we've had people come stay at our house --
people the kids only knew online before that. It has worked out well -
some have become good friends and other online friendships faded away
after in-person meetings.
--pam
On Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 11:01 AM,
[email protected] wrote:
> Yes, and this has been an occurrence here too to some degree. My son
> and a girl in VA exchanged phone numbers. I don't have a problem with
> that, but we don't really know who this girl is, or if she's really in
> VA, or even if she's really a "girl" and not someone else.
> My kids would be the ones who would make arrangements like the one
> with the movie theater because its "exciting". I don't think it has
> anything to do with how things are at home. Its just one more thrill,
> and my kids are thrill seekers.
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/02 2:04:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, leschke@...
writes:
trouble. My dh and I, after we were engaged, became sexually active. I was
17, and had been a virgin. My mother sort of instinctively knew. One day
she asked me outright if we were having sex. I couldnt lie.. I told her,
yeah, we were.. . I'll never forget the disappointment my mother showed. She
didnt preach or condemn or judge me, she just hugged me and cried. She said,
I just wish you had waited.. I said, I know Mom. but.. we didnt.... And that
was that. My sister, otoh, became very sexually active since she at 16.
Once when my sister was a Sr in High School, Mom found a used condom in the
trash can in her bedroom(she still cleaned up after her)!!.. I know that that
scenario wasnt as touching as the one between Mom and me when she found out I
was having sex. Ive said before, that to me, My mother is the epitome of
perfection as a Mother. (OK, OK, she's not perfect, but shes pretty darn
close :-)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> The one most important thing my mother did with me was let me know that sheDItto for my mom. And, I couldnt lie to her. So, I mostly stayed out of
> believed in me, that I would stay out of trouble, that I could get myself
> out of trouble if I did get into any, and that I would know to ask for help
> if I couldn't. I didn't always live up to those beliefs, but I think I did
> better that way than if she had been constantly on my case.
trouble. My dh and I, after we were engaged, became sexually active. I was
17, and had been a virgin. My mother sort of instinctively knew. One day
she asked me outright if we were having sex. I couldnt lie.. I told her,
yeah, we were.. . I'll never forget the disappointment my mother showed. She
didnt preach or condemn or judge me, she just hugged me and cried. She said,
I just wish you had waited.. I said, I know Mom. but.. we didnt.... And that
was that. My sister, otoh, became very sexually active since she at 16.
Once when my sister was a Sr in High School, Mom found a used condom in the
trash can in her bedroom(she still cleaned up after her)!!.. I know that that
scenario wasnt as touching as the one between Mom and me when she found out I
was having sex. Ive said before, that to me, My mother is the epitome of
perfection as a Mother. (OK, OK, she's not perfect, but shes pretty darn
close :-)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/02 12:06:23 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< I can see seeds of rebellion being planted and I can see what is coming
down the road. That child confides in me when she should be able to confide
in her parents.
I feel sorry for kids with no adults to talk to or only dumbass adults who
give them drugs and teach them to steal stereos (as my mom's younger brother
did with a cousin of mine, many years ago...)
Sandra
<< I can see seeds of rebellion being planted and I can see what is coming
down the road. That child confides in me when she should be able to confide
in her parents.
>>She's lucky to have you!!
I feel sorry for kids with no adults to talk to or only dumbass adults who
give them drugs and teach them to steal stereos (as my mom's younger brother
did with a cousin of mine, many years ago...)
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/02 2:20:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
female friends. He has very close friends of each sex. .. He's been to
sleepovers with girls and boys when he was as young as 13, and, some of his
friends still crash together at someones house occasionally. Girls are not a
big mystery to him. He's not had sex yet, but I think he's getting antsy (
lol) My hope is that he will wait til hes at least 18...(fingers crossed)
But, I know there is really nothing I can do to stop him from having sex if
he decides to do it.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> And the same with mixed-groups of teenagers. If they're used to being withI totally agree on this. Landon has always had an equal number of male and
> kids of the opposite sex, they're willing to do LOTS of things when they
> get
> one-on-one instead of just hold hands or be mushy. And if they
> assume/trust
> that they will get to be with those kids again whenever it can be arranged
> without the parents freaking out, they will be WAY more calm about what
> they
> do or don't do on any given day.
>
female friends. He has very close friends of each sex. .. He's been to
sleepovers with girls and boys when he was as young as 13, and, some of his
friends still crash together at someones house occasionally. Girls are not a
big mystery to him. He's not had sex yet, but I think he's getting antsy (
lol) My hope is that he will wait til hes at least 18...(fingers crossed)
But, I know there is really nothing I can do to stop him from having sex if
he decides to do it.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/2002 2:56:22 PM Central Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
this. Parents only have a short time of control, but the opportunity to have
influence forever. At some point, you have to give up control, because
through insisting on control, you eventually lose your influence, as well.
You may control your child until the minute they turn 18, and I know lots of
people do. But what's the possibility that a child like that is going to let
you continue after they don't have to? Child moves out, cuts you off, and
you no longer have influence OR control.
I'd rather be an influential person in my children's lives well into their
adulthood, then have control of something as trivial in the long term as
clothing or food choices, friend preferences or whatever.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
> It seems soMy husband, who got teenagers before he got a baby, put it something like
> obvious that "control" isn't going to work - and that it is better to
> begin from early or pre-teen years to build the relationship that
> you're going to wish for DURING the later teen years - when a
> relationship where parents think they can simply forbid certain
> behaviors is unrealistic.
>
this. Parents only have a short time of control, but the opportunity to have
influence forever. At some point, you have to give up control, because
through insisting on control, you eventually lose your influence, as well.
You may control your child until the minute they turn 18, and I know lots of
people do. But what's the possibility that a child like that is going to let
you continue after they don't have to? Child moves out, cuts you off, and
you no longer have influence OR control.
I'd rather be an influential person in my children's lives well into their
adulthood, then have control of something as trivial in the long term as
clothing or food choices, friend preferences or whatever.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kristen seitz
Interesting, though I'm not surprised.
I've never tried it, but I don't think that you could connect our
address to our kids though. I'll have to check and see.
Kristen
I've never tried it, but I don't think that you could connect our
address to our kids though. I'll have to check and see.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon and Rue Kream <skreams@...>
Date: Monday, December 23, 2002 5:00 am
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Teens?
> <span><p><span><p>
>
>
> <tt>
> Kristen says: Our street address is *not* in the phone book, nor
> is it
>
> available online.
>
>
>
> Hi Kristen - Recently, due to an emergency, I had to find an old
> friend
> who I had completely lost touch with and within two days I had his
> cell
> phone number in Latvia thanks to the Internet, so I was curious
> when I
>
> saw this to see if indeed it would be impossible to find you. Within
>
> about a minute and a half I found the town you live in ( I assume it's
>
> you - if you've signed for separation of school and state). Another
>
> minute and I had your address and phone number (if your husband's name
>
> is Daniel).
>
>
>
> I think it's a mistake to assume that if you don't directly give out
>
> your address no one will be able to find it. I think we could find
>
> just about anyone given enough motivation and time.
>
>
>
> I hope you don't mind my experiment - I've always figured it didn't
>
> really matter what personal info we gave out on the computer, and
> wanted
> to test my hypothesis. If you really are untraceable, and I found the
>
> wrong Kristen, feel free to give me an "I told you so"
> :0. ~Rue
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
>
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or
> the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
> address an email to:
>
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com</tt>
>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.</tt></br>
>
> </span></span>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/02 7:09:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
Tracing ISP's are pretty easy for even for amatuer hackers. Heck, you dont
even have to be a hacker, just use Neotrace.. Then you get the name and
address of the person that owns ( uses) a particular computer. Every
computer has a number that can trace you back to the ISP. But, my point is,
even though folks CAN trace names and numbers, I dont feel its any more of a
risk than meeting folks in real life..
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> I've never tried it, but I don't think that you could connect ourThe way someone would trace your kids to your address is from your ISP.
> address to our kids though. I'll have to check and see
Tracing ISP's are pretty easy for even for amatuer hackers. Heck, you dont
even have to be a hacker, just use Neotrace.. Then you get the name and
address of the person that owns ( uses) a particular computer. Every
computer has a number that can trace you back to the ISP. But, my point is,
even though folks CAN trace names and numbers, I dont feel its any more of a
risk than meeting folks in real life..
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/2002 5:13:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
grlynbl@... writes:
stocking---or so I've heard. <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
grlynbl@... writes:
> I totally agree on this. Landon has always had an equal number of male andCameron, 15 in January, will get a box of condoms from Santa in his
> female friends. He has very close friends of each sex. .. He's been to
> sleepovers with girls and boys when he was as young as 13, and, some of his
>
> friends still crash together at someones house occasionally. Girls are not
> a
> big mystery to him. He's not had sex yet, but I think he's getting antsy (
>
> lol) My hope is that he will wait til hes at least 18...(fingers crossed)
>
> But, I know there is really nothing I can do to stop him from having sex if
>
> he decides to do it.
>
> Teresa
stocking---or so I've heard. <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jon and Rue Kream
Kristen says: Our street address is *not* in the phone book, nor is it
available online.
Hi Kristen - Recently, due to an emergency, I had to find an old friend
who I had completely lost touch with and within two days I had his cell
phone number in Latvia thanks to the Internet, so I was curious when I
saw this to see if indeed it would be impossible to find you. Within
about a minute and a half I found the town you live in ( I assume it's
you - if you've signed for separation of school and state). Another
minute and I had your address and phone number (if your husband's name
is Daniel).
I think it's a mistake to assume that if you don't directly give out
your address no one will be able to find it. I think we could find
just about anyone given enough motivation and time.
I hope you don't mind my experiment - I've always figured it didn't
really matter what personal info we gave out on the computer, and wanted
to test my hypothesis. If you really are untraceable, and I found the
wrong Kristen, feel free to give me an "I told you so" :0. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
available online.
Hi Kristen - Recently, due to an emergency, I had to find an old friend
who I had completely lost touch with and within two days I had his cell
phone number in Latvia thanks to the Internet, so I was curious when I
saw this to see if indeed it would be impossible to find you. Within
about a minute and a half I found the town you live in ( I assume it's
you - if you've signed for separation of school and state). Another
minute and I had your address and phone number (if your husband's name
is Daniel).
I think it's a mistake to assume that if you don't directly give out
your address no one will be able to find it. I think we could find
just about anyone given enough motivation and time.
I hope you don't mind my experiment - I've always figured it didn't
really matter what personal info we gave out on the computer, and wanted
to test my hypothesis. If you really are untraceable, and I found the
wrong Kristen, feel free to give me an "I told you so" :0. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]