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In a message dated 12/8/99 6:04:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, Bonknit@...
writes:

<< I think this is an abuse of
power.
Laura >>

I wholeheartedly agree. I haven't been around much lately...just got
back from out of town and the whole court situation with my nephew. We went
to court on Monday morning, sat in the waiting area for a little over two
hours, then went in to see the judge. The probation officer had asked for a
continuance because my nephew's mother hadn't gotten in touch with him soon
enough for him to do his evaluation. The judge was mad and said that if this
happened again, the probation officer would be talking to my nephew behind
bars. So he goes back on Dec. 27. The probation officer says he will be on
informal probation for six monthes to a year. He says they don't like
independent study so I don't know if they will make him go back to public
school. I don't understand why when he's doing better this way and when we
have complied with California's compulsory education laws. The probation
officer said to me that kids need to be in some kind of school unless they're
little Einsteins, that our public schools need money, etc. It really bothers
me that he will let his personal and political views influence what he does
in this capacity.
He asked me to write a statement, so I did. I gave my views on how
Ricky is doing, how his learning is going, why I believe it is important for
him to continue as he is, etc. I hope it does some good.
Right now, I feel kind of discouraged. I don't know how to fight their
system. I sat in that waiting area and talked to other parents in there
about what their kids were in there for and I was totally disgusted. One
woman had a boy who was 12 or 13 and had gotten in a fight with a kid at
school. He said the kid slapped him so he hit him and they fought. On the
one hand, I don't at all think this is the right way to handle it. On the
other, I know that kids get in fights and have done so for many years and
there are better ways of handling it than to call the police and put him in
the court system. I'm not talking about weapons or injuries, just a typical
fight. Is it actually supposed to do some good to put the kid on probation
with the threat of juvenile hall if they have any problems at all? One woman
said that her friend's son was on probation and then got a ticket for
jaywalking so they put him in juvenile hall for a week.
They can't even guarantee the safety of the kids in juvenile hall. They
act like it's just a little lesson for them to learn being in there. And I
guess if once in a while one gets gang-raped, well, that's what you get for
getting in a fight at school... I guess I shouldn't even keep writing about
this right now because at the moment I feel angry and bitter about what
they're doing in that town and it's not even a constructive anger. I don't
know what to do to fight it. I have written to various organizations but
never heard back. I know they get thousands of letters all the time so I
guess it's against the odds to catch anyone's attention. I have to think
about this and figure out how to regroup...

Lucy in California

[email protected]

>>Is it actually supposed to do some good to put the kid on probation
with the threat of juvenile hall if they have any problems at all? >>

Do you think some of these kids just don't have anything they really care
about? A kid in my neighborhood was caught breaking into houses (back in
the 70"s). His mom didn't know about it until he was caught. His
punishment was minor, but then he discovered wrestling for the school
team, did really great, and ended up with a college scholarship.

I guess my point is that a kid who is really excited about something and
has the opportunity to pursue it, will be less likely to spend time
getting into trouble.

I'm sorry things are so tough for you right now. Hang in there!
Mary Ellen
Seek joy in what you give, not in what you get.

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Lynda

Lucy,

What kind of ISP is he in? Is it one run by the local school district? If
it is, you need to explain to the p.o. that the district gets just as much
money for your nephew as they would if he was in regular kiddy jail, oops,
ps.

If he isn't in one run by a school district, you might see if you can
negotiate so that he can use the ps ISP program.

Lynda, who has worked for school districts in CA and knows how their
funding works.

----------
>
> In a message dated 12/8/99 6:04:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Bonknit@...
> writes:
>
> I wholeheartedly agree. I haven't been around much lately...just got
> back from out of town and the whole court situation with my nephew. We
went
> to court on Monday morning, sat in the waiting area for a little over two

> hours, then went in to see the judge. The probation officer had asked
for a
> continuance because my nephew's mother hadn't gotten in touch with him
soon
> enough for him to do his evaluation. The judge was mad and said that if
this
> happened again, the probation officer would be talking to my nephew
behind
> bars. So he goes back on Dec. 27. The probation officer says he will be
on
> informal probation for six monthes to a year. He says they don't like
> independent study so I don't know if they will make him go back to public

> school. I don't understand why when he's doing better this way and when
we
> have complied with California's compulsory education laws. The probation

> officer said to me that kids need to be in some kind of school unless
they're
> little Einsteins, that our public schools need money, etc. It really
bothers
> me that he will let his personal and political views influence what he
does
> in this capacity.
> He asked me to write a statement, so I did. I gave my views on how
> Ricky is doing, how his learning is going, why I believe it is important
for
> him to continue as he is, etc. I hope it does some good.
> Right now, I feel kind of discouraged. I don't know how to fight
their
> system. I sat in that waiting area and talked to other parents in there
> about what their kids were in there for and I was totally disgusted. One

> woman had a boy who was 12 or 13 and had gotten in a fight with a kid at
> school. He said the kid slapped him so he hit him and they fought. On
the
> one hand, I don't at all think this is the right way to handle it. On
the
> other, I know that kids get in fights and have done so for many years and

> there are better ways of handling it than to call the police and put him
in
> the court system. I'm not talking about weapons or injuries, just a
typical
> fight. Is it actually supposed to do some good to put the kid on
probation
> with the threat of juvenile hall if they have any problems at all? One
woman
> said that her friend's son was on probation and then got a ticket for
> jaywalking so they put him in juvenile hall for a week.
> They can't even guarantee the safety of the kids in juvenile hall.
They
> act like it's just a little lesson for them to learn being in there. And
I
> guess if once in a while one gets gang-raped, well, that's what you get
for
> getting in a fight at school... I guess I shouldn't even keep writing
about
> this right now because at the moment I feel angry and bitter about what
> they're doing in that town and it's not even a constructive anger. I
don't
> know what to do to fight it. I have written to various organizations but

> never heard back. I know they get thousands of letters all the time so I

> guess it's against the odds to catch anyone's attention. I have to think

> about this and figure out how to regroup...
>
> Lucy in California
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/10/99 2:36:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
megates@... writes:

<< a kid who is really excited about something and
has the opportunity to pursue it, will be less likely to spend time
getting into trouble. >>

Mary Ellen,
Very true! I think this is the main reason I unschool, so that my kids
have the opportunities to find the things they're excited about. I guess
what bothers me so much about the kids in the Lancaster area juvenile justice
system is that those in charge aren't trying at all to solve the problems;
it's strictly a punishment mentality. Also, some of the things the kids do
aren't major issues; they're just foolish kid things. In most schools, the
justice system would not be involved at all. I think the schools and courts
are just making it so much worse there. They put kids in potentially
dangerous situations when they send them to juvenile hall for a week or two
and then who is going to undo the damage if the kid has something really bad
happen to him while he's in there?
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. I am really bothered by this and yet
there's a part of me that feels guilty because when it comes down to it, it's
not MY child who may be hauled off to juvenile hall, so how bad can things
really be for me? Does that make any sense? It's Ricky who's really at risk
here. His parents aren't handling the situation very responsibly, either,
and it bothers me so much that he's the one who will have to pay for their
mistakes.
I guess it's just really frustrating to want so much to really do
something that MATTERS and then to feel so ineffective at times.

Lucy in California

[email protected]

Lucy,
Don't feel guilty. You've put much effort into it. I wonder if it were
HIS parents who were trying so hard if things would be going better.
Mary Ellen
Seek joy in what you give, not in what you get.

> From: Lucy in California
> I am really bothered by this and yet there's a part of me that feels
guilty because when it comes down to it, it's not MY child who may be
hauled off to juvenile hall, so how bad can
things really be for me? Does that make any sense? It's Ricky who's
really at risk here. His parents aren't handling the situation very
responsibly, either, and it bothers me so much that he's the one who will
have to pay for their mistakes. I guess it's just really frustrating to
want so much to really do something that MATTERS and then to feel so
ineffective at times.>>

___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/99 9:46:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lurine@... writes:

<< What kind of ISP is he in? Is it one run by the local school district? If
it is, you need to explain to the p.o. that the district gets just as much
money for your nephew as they would if he was in regular kiddy jail, oops,
ps. >>

Lynda,
He is in an independent study program through a private school. I
talked to the school district and they said that they would not allow him to
go on theirs, that if he returns to their district, he absolutely has to
serve 120 days at the county alternative school. (This is not associated
with the 120 days at camp we were worried about before; that was the juvenile
justice system and this is the school district.) I explained to them that
this would be a way for them to receive funding for him still but they said
it was not an option.
I have written a statement to the probation officer, as he asked for,
and Ricky has met with him and he seems to be a very caring, reasonable
person. He said he will recommend 6 monthes of informal probation and that
he will consider leaving him in this independent study program although he
normally doesn't like independent study. He said the cases he works with
normally put their kids on independent study, work all day and leave them
alone, and then the kids get into trouble with no supervision and don't seem
to learn anything. Ricky's mom doesn't work and I tried to explain as best
as I could why I feel it is important to leave him on this program so it may
work. The probation officer also said that he feels this is a minor offense
and that he does feel the schools are going overboard in their ways of
handling some of these things, so that was kind of heartening.
Thanks for the ideas. Sorry to everyone if I sounded so negative in my
last post. I'm feeling better now and things look more hopeful for my nephew
so maybe the effort will have been worthwhile.

Lucy

[email protected]

Mary Ellen,
Thanks for your kind words. Things are looking somewhat better now so
maybe the efforts will pay off after all. I know his parents should take on
more of this but it's hard to just sit by and let the kids take the
consequences of it. I am trying to do more to transition more of this to his
parents.

Lucy

Lynda

Good thoughts and strong wishes for you and your nephew. I sure hope he
knows how lucky he is to have an "auntie" like you!

I really can't wrap my mind around CASE, all the kids that come out of that
program end up units and units behind the other kids which places them on a
vicious merry-go-round--you are behind so you must be a bad kid and bad
kids have to be in this program which puts them behind so they must be a
bad kid because they are behind . . . blah, blah, blah!!!!

Lynda

----------
> From: LASaliger@...
>
Lynda,
> He is in an independent study program through a private school. I
> talked to the school district and they said that they would not allow him
to
> go on theirs, that if he returns to their district, he absolutely has to
> serve 120 days at the county alternative school. (This is not associated

> with the 120 days at camp we were worried about before; that was the
juvenile
> justice system and this is the school district.) I explained to them
that
> this would be a way for them to receive funding for him still but they
said
> it was not an option.
> I have written a statement to the probation officer, as he asked
for,
> and Ricky has met with him and he seems to be a very caring, reasonable
> person. He said he will recommend 6 monthes of informal probation and
that
> he will consider leaving him in this independent study program although
he
> normally doesn't like independent study. He said the cases he works with

> normally put their kids on independent study, work all day and leave them

> alone, and then the kids get into trouble with no supervision and don't
seem
> to learn anything. Ricky's mom doesn't work and I tried to explain as
best
> as I could why I feel it is important to leave him on this program so it
may
> work. The probation officer also said that he feels this is a minor
offense
> and that he does feel the schools are going overboard in their ways of
> handling some of these things, so that was kind of heartening.
> Thanks for the ideas. Sorry to everyone if I sounded so negative in
my
> last post. I'm feeling better now and things look more hopeful for my
nephew
> so maybe the effort will have been worthwhile.
>
> Lucy
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/16/99 10:38:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
lurine@... writes:

<< I really can't wrap my mind around CASE, all the kids that come out of that
program end up units and units behind the other kids which places them on a
vicious merry-go-round- >>

Lynda,
Thanks for your kind words. I agree with your observation above. I
think much of public school is a merry-go-round of one sort or another. I
hope they let him just stay with what he's doing. I think homeschooling is
the best way to get off the ride.

Lucy