Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Consequences for behavior
[email protected]
Hi All,
Since we "jumped in with both feet " a couple weeks ago I'd like to ask
another question. Since I'm trying to get the unschooling life down better I
was wondering if consequences for bad behavior falls outside of the box. For
example before my son, who like to argue and yell at his brother, would get
check marks under game playing that meant 15 minutes off game. My question is
how should we handle it now? Or if this way would still be considered
unschooling because he has the choice of doing the bad behavior before he
gets the consequence.
Any help would be greatly appreciated since we are so new at this and are
bound to make a lot of mistakes.
Thanks
Lori
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Since we "jumped in with both feet " a couple weeks ago I'd like to ask
another question. Since I'm trying to get the unschooling life down better I
was wondering if consequences for bad behavior falls outside of the box. For
example before my son, who like to argue and yell at his brother, would get
check marks under game playing that meant 15 minutes off game. My question is
how should we handle it now? Or if this way would still be considered
unschooling because he has the choice of doing the bad behavior before he
gets the consequence.
Any help would be greatly appreciated since we are so new at this and are
bound to make a lot of mistakes.
Thanks
Lori
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: lwillson7@...<<My question is how should we handle it now? Or if this way would still be
considered unschooling because he has the choice of doing the bad behavior
before he gets the consequence.
Any help would be greatly appreciated since we are so new at this and are
bound to make a lot of mistakes.>>
Well all I can do is tell you is what we do. You didn't say exactly what the
problem is but I'm guessing it has to do with maybe one sibling not being
the nicest they can be to another? I have that here although not nearly as
much as when I yelled and sent them to their rooms!
We talk to them. There is no punishment for anything here other than natural
consequences. Like you break something it's gone and if you want another one
save your money. My two middle ones are 13 months apart and they pretty much
either love each other dearly or hate each other. Luckily the latter has
been lessened. I seperate them both and go to the one first that seems most
upset. Instead of listening to all the he said she said he did she did
stuff, I start talking about what they see that happened and how they feel
and how they think the other one feels and what could they do differently
the next time around to prevent what happened. This could last for maybe 20
minutes or so. We don't make it a quick you can do this next time thing and
leave. Then it's the other ones turn. We didn't have miracles overnight but
I see a big difference in the kids because of it. Now I hear them trying to
figure stuff out when a problem arises. Sometimes when one gets
antagonistic, the other one will become vocal about their feelings and that
helps to alleviate any further problems.
Mary B
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[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 2:13:03 PM, lwillson7@... writes:
<< Or if this way would still be considered
unschooling because he has the choice of doing the bad behavior before he
gets the consequence. >>
EXTREME EXAMPLE ALERT:
That's the argument wife beaters use--"If you didn't want me to hit you you
should have cleaned the house."
"Consequences" is a euphemism for punishment, if the "consequences" are
declared in advance and administered by someone else.
It's not an unschooling thing, it's a parenting thing, though.
On the other hand, the more loving and trusting the relationship between you
and your children is, the better unschooling is going to work.
If you and he figure out a way to see his relationship with his brother as
something worth working on and making better, then the consequences of his
being mean will be their relationship could suffer, or the brother could be
mean in return. His reason to be nice to his brother should have nothing to
do wtih video game time.
Are you limiting video game time in general?
If you haven't seen this already, please look. There's an addition since
this morning, a comment on Mary Gold's "If you Give a Kid a Nintendo..."
article. (If you go to that one and then to "read comments," there's a new
testimonial from a mom whose son has benefitted from games play.)
http://sandradodd.com/games/page
Sandra
<< Or if this way would still be considered
unschooling because he has the choice of doing the bad behavior before he
gets the consequence. >>
EXTREME EXAMPLE ALERT:
That's the argument wife beaters use--"If you didn't want me to hit you you
should have cleaned the house."
"Consequences" is a euphemism for punishment, if the "consequences" are
declared in advance and administered by someone else.
It's not an unschooling thing, it's a parenting thing, though.
On the other hand, the more loving and trusting the relationship between you
and your children is, the better unschooling is going to work.
If you and he figure out a way to see his relationship with his brother as
something worth working on and making better, then the consequences of his
being mean will be their relationship could suffer, or the brother could be
mean in return. His reason to be nice to his brother should have nothing to
do wtih video game time.
Are you limiting video game time in general?
If you haven't seen this already, please look. There's an addition since
this morning, a comment on Mary Gold's "If you Give a Kid a Nintendo..."
article. (If you go to that one and then to "read comments," there's a new
testimonial from a mom whose son has benefitted from games play.)
http://sandradodd.com/games/page
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 6:46:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mummyone24@... writes:
children will learn to problem solve in other situations when you are not
around. My boys do so well with other children. I see other children
running up to the mom or dad every 5 minutes saying "sally won't share her
dolls" or " Joe won't play with me" or " Jimmy grabbed the toy" etc. And mom
or dad hops off to solve the problem. If your children learn to problem
solve they can handle most minor problems themselves they won't always look
to you to"handle" a situation for them.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummyone24@... writes:
> . Instead of listening to all the he said she said he did she didAnd another benefit in talking it out, problem solving out loud, is that your
> stuff, I start talking about what they see that happened and how they feel
> and how they think the other one feels and what could they do differently
> the next time around to prevent what happened. This could last for maybe 20
>
> minutes or so. We don't make it a quick you can do this next time thing and
>
> leave. Then it's the other ones turn. We didn't have miracles overnight but
>
> I see a big difference in the kids because of it. Now I hear them trying to
>
> figure stuff out when a problem arises.
children will learn to problem solve in other situations when you are not
around. My boys do so well with other children. I see other children
running up to the mom or dad every 5 minutes saying "sally won't share her
dolls" or " Joe won't play with me" or " Jimmy grabbed the toy" etc. And mom
or dad hops off to solve the problem. If your children learn to problem
solve they can handle most minor problems themselves they won't always look
to you to"handle" a situation for them.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 6:46:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mummyone24@... writes:
I've been going through alot of heartache over my kids ways of talking to
each other. This was so helpful.
I did talk to Emily yesterday about how sad I was that Max was loosing that
innocent sweetness and beginning to speak meanly and with a nasty tone of
voice. I said that it made me so sad, and that the reason he was doing itt
was because he heard Emily and Zack talking to each other like that. I
explained that Max looks up to them and wants to emulate them and he is
picking up some meaness. I asked her to be a little more aware. Today I am
going to attempt that same conversation with Zack, although he got a new PS2
the other day and is a bit, shall we say, engrossed. LOL
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummyone24@... writes:
> We talk to them. There is no punishment for anything here other than naturalMary B,
>
> consequences
I've been going through alot of heartache over my kids ways of talking to
each other. This was so helpful.
I did talk to Emily yesterday about how sad I was that Max was loosing that
innocent sweetness and beginning to speak meanly and with a nasty tone of
voice. I said that it made me so sad, and that the reason he was doing itt
was because he heard Emily and Zack talking to each other like that. I
explained that Max looks up to them and wants to emulate them and he is
picking up some meaness. I asked her to be a little more aware. Today I am
going to attempt that same conversation with Zack, although he got a new PS2
the other day and is a bit, shall we say, engrossed. LOL
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 6:46:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mummyone24@... writes:
feelings and results of different behaviors. Letting the kids know how others
may feel.
I think when kids "mess up", break something, say something mean, hit, hurt,
those types, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. They are children.
Learning to live amongst others. They are not born with all the social skills
programmed so that they KNOW what is right or wrong, they need to learn it.
We "teach" them by modeling the behavior that we want them to pick up. If we
want them to say please and ask for things in a polite manner, then WE
(adults) need to do the same. If we want them to speak about feelings rather
than throw tantrums, then we need to talk about things rather than yelling
and slam things around.
Punishment also has typically been unrelated to the "crime" Mary pushes
little Billy of his Bike so She can't ride her bike anymore. What has been
learned here?
DON'T GET CAUGHT.
Mom might want to get out there and ask Mary what happened, commiserating
with her sense of frustration and anger about maybe having to let little
Billy go with her when she wanted to hang out with the big girls. If Billy is
upset, TALK to him, let him know you are sorry that the two aren't getting
along. And I think Mary B is right about the length of time to talk, 5
minutes of "You shouldn't do that because X X X..." isn't enough for the
child's feelings to come to the surface.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummyone24@... writes:
> There is no punishment for anything here other than naturalSame here. Punishing has never worked in our family. We talk about the
> consequences
feelings and results of different behaviors. Letting the kids know how others
may feel.
I think when kids "mess up", break something, say something mean, hit, hurt,
those types, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. They are children.
Learning to live amongst others. They are not born with all the social skills
programmed so that they KNOW what is right or wrong, they need to learn it.
We "teach" them by modeling the behavior that we want them to pick up. If we
want them to say please and ask for things in a polite manner, then WE
(adults) need to do the same. If we want them to speak about feelings rather
than throw tantrums, then we need to talk about things rather than yelling
and slam things around.
Punishment also has typically been unrelated to the "crime" Mary pushes
little Billy of his Bike so She can't ride her bike anymore. What has been
learned here?
DON'T GET CAUGHT.
Mom might want to get out there and ask Mary what happened, commiserating
with her sense of frustration and anger about maybe having to let little
Billy go with her when she wanted to hang out with the big girls. If Billy is
upset, TALK to him, let him know you are sorry that the two aren't getting
along. And I think Mary B is right about the length of time to talk, 5
minutes of "You shouldn't do that because X X X..." isn't enough for the
child's feelings to come to the surface.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/18/02 8:25:02 AM, Earthmomma67@... writes:
<< 5
minutes of "You shouldn't do that because X X X..." isn't enough for the
child's feelings to come to the surface. >>
I don't think you're recommending MORE than five minutes of that, but a
different approach, right?
Sandra, fishing for clarification...
<< 5
minutes of "You shouldn't do that because X X X..." isn't enough for the
child's feelings to come to the surface. >>
I don't think you're recommending MORE than five minutes of that, but a
different approach, right?
Sandra, fishing for clarification...
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/18/02 12:14:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
along with whatever else comes up. What Mary was talking about in her post.
That would be better than the 5 minute lecture YOu should do this....
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> <<5No No No! Not a lecture, casual conversation with talking about this "Issue"
> minutes of "You shouldn't do that because X X X..." isn't enough for the
> child's feelings to come to the surface. >>
>
> I don't think you're recommending MORE than five minutes of that, but a
> different approach, right?
>
> Sandra, fishing for clarification...
>
>
along with whatever else comes up. What Mary was talking about in her post.
That would be better than the 5 minute lecture YOu should do this....
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: Earthmomma67@...<<Mary B,
I've been going through alot of heartache over my kids ways of talking to
each other. This was so helpful.>>
You know when the kids talk like that to each other, sometimes it's so hard
to put aside the anger and sadness I feel right at the moment and do what is
best for them to learn. It does help in the long run but I still struggle
with doing the right thing at times.
Yesterday I was trying to get out of the house to go to Rag Shop. My kids
want to make Christmas crafts to hand out to friends and relatives. Anyway,
it was late and I really wanted to get out of the house and I was in my
bedroom getting dressed. I have the intercom on from the girls room for the
baby and I heard Sierra talking very mean to Alyssa. That was unusual and
she was very taunting and teasing and just plain mean. By the time I got to
their room, the baby was starting to cry. I took Alyssa out of the room and
pretty much just raised my voice to Sierra and told her what I thought about
what she was doing. Not the best thing to do but it caught me off guard and
I was in a hurry. I'm still trying every day.
Mary B
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Mary Bianco
>From: Earthmomma67@...<<No No No! Not a lecture, casual conversation with talking about this
"Issue" along with whatever else comes up. What Mary was talking about in
her post.
That would be better than the 5 minute lecture YOu should do this....>>
Oh oh, maybe I should have clarified. I have a habit of thinking you all
know what I'm talking about! <BG>
I never go into the child's room and say what I think they should have done
or what I was not liking. The thing for me is to have them be able to figure
that out by themselves with my help to get at why they did what they did.
Never a lecture.
My point about not being just a 5 minute thing was because it does take some
time to actually get at what the problem was in the first place that made
the child behave that way. And sometimes my children don't want to really
talk right away. So sometimes we snuggle and I comfort them and maybe just
do some general talking on my own. Maybe I remember a time similar when I
was younger or even when Tara was younger. That usually helps them get
started and that's when they start talking. So all in all it's usually at
least a 20 minute thing, occasionally sooner if it's a reminder type of
situtation and sometimes longer if it's something new that has come up and
my child is into talking about it.
Mary B
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