Structure - YUCK!
The O'Donnells
Oh my heart is nearly broken. But this is probably just another phase - I
hope!!!
DD has now decided she wants me to put structure to her "school day" and
give her assignments! Sigh. She doesn't feel like she is learning enough.
And yes, both she and I understand that learning is her job - but that
doesn't seem to click for her beyond the words themselves.
OK, anyone out there that has had kids in ps and made the transition to
unschooling successfully, I'd love to hear from you. (Or anyone else for
that matter :o)
In His Service,
Laraine
praxis@...
Subscribe to Our Prairie Primer Today Community at:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/PrairiePrimerToday
hope!!!
DD has now decided she wants me to put structure to her "school day" and
give her assignments! Sigh. She doesn't feel like she is learning enough.
And yes, both she and I understand that learning is her job - but that
doesn't seem to click for her beyond the words themselves.
OK, anyone out there that has had kids in ps and made the transition to
unschooling successfully, I'd love to hear from you. (Or anyone else for
that matter :o)
In His Service,
Laraine
praxis@...
Subscribe to Our Prairie Primer Today Community at:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/PrairiePrimerToday
David Albert
The O'Donnells wrote:
assignments and completely butting out (sometimes I hear this called
"unschooling", but I think it can be more broadly defined as approaches
which do not resemble school -- actually, I hate to be defined by what
my approach is not!) Now, my two never attended school, so am no expert
on the "deschooling process". But it is possible for a child after, say
8 (sometimes earlier, sometimes later), to define what it is she wants
to learn about (in the big picture), and have you help structure a day,
month, year, which will help her achieve her own learning goals. The
trick is not falling for just making "assignments", but working with
your kids and listening hard to see where it is they really want to go.
You then become the "learning facilitator", not the taskmaster, and, if
it works for you and and your daughter, you can "contract" together for
what it is you provide, and what is expected from her.
So I encourage you to think "outside the box" (school or "unschooling")
-- there are as many ways to go as there are children and families.
David Albert
--
John Taylor Gatto calls "And the Skylark Sings with Me: Adventures in
Homeschooling and Community-Based Education" "a treat you should not
miss!" To read a sample chapter, reviewers' comments, or the foreword,
and to order (cheaper than Amazon, and I'll sign it for you too!), visit
my website at http://www.skylarksings.com
> From: The O'Donnells <praxis@...>Dear Laraine -- there are other approaches between giving out
>
> Oh my heart is nearly broken. But this is probably just another phase
> - I
> hope!!!
>
> DD has now decided she wants me to put structure to her "school day"
> and
> give her assignments! Sigh. She doesn't feel like she is learning
> enough.
> And yes, both she and I understand that learning is her job - but
> that
> doesn't seem to click for her beyond the words themselves.
>
> OK, anyone out there that has had kids in ps and made the transition
> to
> unschooling successfully, I'd love to hear from you. (Or anyone else
> for
> that matter :o)
>
assignments and completely butting out (sometimes I hear this called
"unschooling", but I think it can be more broadly defined as approaches
which do not resemble school -- actually, I hate to be defined by what
my approach is not!) Now, my two never attended school, so am no expert
on the "deschooling process". But it is possible for a child after, say
8 (sometimes earlier, sometimes later), to define what it is she wants
to learn about (in the big picture), and have you help structure a day,
month, year, which will help her achieve her own learning goals. The
trick is not falling for just making "assignments", but working with
your kids and listening hard to see where it is they really want to go.
You then become the "learning facilitator", not the taskmaster, and, if
it works for you and and your daughter, you can "contract" together for
what it is you provide, and what is expected from her.
So I encourage you to think "outside the box" (school or "unschooling")
-- there are as many ways to go as there are children and families.
David Albert
--
John Taylor Gatto calls "And the Skylark Sings with Me: Adventures in
Homeschooling and Community-Based Education" "a treat you should not
miss!" To read a sample chapter, reviewers' comments, or the foreword,
and to order (cheaper than Amazon, and I'll sign it for you too!), visit
my website at http://www.skylarksings.com
Brown
Laraine
If my youngest son (now 9) hadn't been born at home, and didn't look just like
the others, I would have been accusing the hospital of swapping babies! He has
always loved structure, and I hate it, and my three older children are like me.
I kept thinking he would grow out of it. The other day he organised his father
into sitting down at the computer and showing him how to use Microsoft Projects
so that he could work out a schedule to last him through to the end of the
year, and planned days for math etc. in among all our other activities.... I
have to point out that here in New Zealand, it isn't just Christmas that's
coming, but this is the last week of school, for those poor unfortunates who
attend such institutions, the last week of all sorts of things for us - music,
gym etc, prior to our summer holidays! But ds has scheduled maths etc. all the
way through Christmas.
He's always done such stuff all the time (like waking me up at 6.30am on a
Sunday for help with math problems) but now he wants it scheduled so he knows
just what he has to do (his 'has-to', not mine) and so he can check it off on
his chart as he does it! But, hey, if that's his way why not? As long as he
doesn't expect me to do it too <g> He's gradually learning that the rest of us
are naturally disoganised and is slowly stopping getting cross. He organises
the cutlery drawer several times a week, and finally agreed that we could put
the clean cutlery on the bench and he would put it away - before that, everyone
got growled at for not putting it away carefully enough.
And I am finally accepting that his way is okay too - it's okay for him to
structure his life, and really, it's okay for us to help him if he asks.
Sometimes it really is what they want, and sometimes they need help to learn
the skills of organising and structuring. I have come to realise that structure
and unschooling aren't necessarily at odds - as long as the structure isn't
imposed. Your kid who has been in ps may be the same sort of kid as my little
boy (who tried school for 5 weeks at his own request), but the skills don't
always come naturally, and may need to be learnt, just like other skills.
Carol
If my youngest son (now 9) hadn't been born at home, and didn't look just like
the others, I would have been accusing the hospital of swapping babies! He has
always loved structure, and I hate it, and my three older children are like me.
I kept thinking he would grow out of it. The other day he organised his father
into sitting down at the computer and showing him how to use Microsoft Projects
so that he could work out a schedule to last him through to the end of the
year, and planned days for math etc. in among all our other activities.... I
have to point out that here in New Zealand, it isn't just Christmas that's
coming, but this is the last week of school, for those poor unfortunates who
attend such institutions, the last week of all sorts of things for us - music,
gym etc, prior to our summer holidays! But ds has scheduled maths etc. all the
way through Christmas.
He's always done such stuff all the time (like waking me up at 6.30am on a
Sunday for help with math problems) but now he wants it scheduled so he knows
just what he has to do (his 'has-to', not mine) and so he can check it off on
his chart as he does it! But, hey, if that's his way why not? As long as he
doesn't expect me to do it too <g> He's gradually learning that the rest of us
are naturally disoganised and is slowly stopping getting cross. He organises
the cutlery drawer several times a week, and finally agreed that we could put
the clean cutlery on the bench and he would put it away - before that, everyone
got growled at for not putting it away carefully enough.
And I am finally accepting that his way is okay too - it's okay for him to
structure his life, and really, it's okay for us to help him if he asks.
Sometimes it really is what they want, and sometimes they need help to learn
the skills of organising and structuring. I have come to realise that structure
and unschooling aren't necessarily at odds - as long as the structure isn't
imposed. Your kid who has been in ps may be the same sort of kid as my little
boy (who tried school for 5 weeks at his own request), but the skills don't
always come naturally, and may need to be learnt, just like other skills.
Carol
> Oh my heart is nearly broken. But this is probably just another phase - I
> hope!!!
>
> DD has now decided she wants me to put structure to her "school day" and
> give her assignments! Sigh. She doesn't feel like she is learning enough.
> And yes, both she and I understand that learning is her job - but that
> doesn't seem to click for her beyond the words themselves.
>
> OK, anyone out there that has had kids in ps and made the transition to
> unschooling successfully, I'd love to hear from you. (Or anyone else for
> that matter :o)
Shay Seaborne
Subject: Structure - YUCK!
<SNIP> DD has now decided she wants me to put structure to her "school
day" and
give her assignments! Sigh. She doesn't feel like she is learning
enough.>>>
If my dd asked for this, my first assignment for her would be: make a
list of what you want to learn, and how you want to learn it. Second
assignment would be: now, take that first list and make yourself a
schedule. <BWEG>
-Shay
FOLC eclectic homeschool support group http://expage.com/page/folcfolks
VaEclecticHomeschool discussion list
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/VaEclecticHomeschool
Virginia Home Education Association
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~pm6f/vhea.html
National Home Education Network http://www.nhen.org
<SNIP> DD has now decided she wants me to put structure to her "school
day" and
give her assignments! Sigh. She doesn't feel like she is learning
enough.>>>
If my dd asked for this, my first assignment for her would be: make a
list of what you want to learn, and how you want to learn it. Second
assignment would be: now, take that first list and make yourself a
schedule. <BWEG>
-Shay
FOLC eclectic homeschool support group http://expage.com/page/folcfolks
VaEclecticHomeschool discussion list
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/VaEclecticHomeschool
Virginia Home Education Association
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~pm6f/vhea.html
National Home Education Network http://www.nhen.org
Lisa Bugg
>And this is just what we did one year, when my 11 year old wanted to feel
> If my dd asked for this, my first assignment for her would be: make a
> list of what you want to learn, and how you want to learn it. Second
> assignment would be: now, take that first list and make yourself a
> schedule. <BWEG>
>
> -Shay
>
more in control of what she was doing.
Over the years, working in all my different online persona's, I wish I had a
nickel for every 11-12 year old girl who wanted to add structure to her day.
I could afford a retreat weekend.
This is a time of great upheaval on the inside, many people need their
outside to be predictable. Those hormones sure aren't. Shay's right, ask
her for all the input and help her devise a plan that will work for her Warn
her that schedules like this have to be adjusted every so often, what she
creates today will not work come next June. At some point they begin to
feel in control again and the need to write this down and stick to it goes
away.
Have to go play Uno now!
Lisa
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/5/99 7:03:34 AM !!!First Boot!!!, mjcmbrwn@...
writes:
<< But ds has scheduled maths etc. all the
way through Christmas. >>
Good for him!!
Nance
writes:
<< But ds has scheduled maths etc. all the
way through Christmas. >>
Good for him!!
Nance
Pam Hartley
----------
If my kids come to me and say, "I want you to force me to do a set amount of
work every day and you pick it" I'm going to say, "Sorry, I don't do that."
But if they want me to sit down with them and help them find activities and
acquire things to do and teach them to schedule their time and explore the
things that might be of interest to them - well, great! :) No problem.
So the situation might look like this:
"Okay, Hortensia, if I have it right you'd like to spend the next month
learning about butterflies and rock stars of the 70's. Now, here are the
cool resources we've found together and here is a tight schedule for you to
follow, as per your request and what we've discussed. From 8:00 to 9:00
every morning you wish to study Rod Stewart, from 9:00 to 10:00 you wish to
study monarch butterflies. Here's the schedule, all written up in
triplicate. Shall we put one on the refrigerator? Do you know how your alarm
clock works? Super!"
And that's it. If *she* then chooses to maintain her schedule, change it,
expand upon it, or hit the alarm clock the first day and say to herself,
"Nah!", that's up to HER.
So it isn't really the asking for structure or "schoolwork" -- it's whether
she's asking you to force her to do it, and whether you apply that force.
That's where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. That's the part that
damages.
She also may just want more of your time. :)
Good luck,
Pam
>From: [email protected]This isn't as bad as you might think, depending on how you approach it. :)
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 328
>Date: Sun, Dec 5, 1999, 3:03 AM
>DD has now decided she wants me to put structure to her "school day" and
>give her assignments! Sigh. She doesn't feel like she is learning enough.
> And yes, both she and I understand that learning is her job - but that
>doesn't seem to click for her beyond the words themselves.
If my kids come to me and say, "I want you to force me to do a set amount of
work every day and you pick it" I'm going to say, "Sorry, I don't do that."
But if they want me to sit down with them and help them find activities and
acquire things to do and teach them to schedule their time and explore the
things that might be of interest to them - well, great! :) No problem.
So the situation might look like this:
"Okay, Hortensia, if I have it right you'd like to spend the next month
learning about butterflies and rock stars of the 70's. Now, here are the
cool resources we've found together and here is a tight schedule for you to
follow, as per your request and what we've discussed. From 8:00 to 9:00
every morning you wish to study Rod Stewart, from 9:00 to 10:00 you wish to
study monarch butterflies. Here's the schedule, all written up in
triplicate. Shall we put one on the refrigerator? Do you know how your alarm
clock works? Super!"
And that's it. If *she* then chooses to maintain her schedule, change it,
expand upon it, or hit the alarm clock the first day and say to herself,
"Nah!", that's up to HER.
So it isn't really the asking for structure or "schoolwork" -- it's whether
she's asking you to force her to do it, and whether you apply that force.
That's where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. That's the part that
damages.
She also may just want more of your time. :)
Good luck,
Pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/05/1999 12:44:37 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
s-seaborne@... writes:
<< If my dd asked for this, my first assignment for her would be: make a
list of what you want to learn, and how you want to learn it. Second
assignment would be: now, take that first list and make yourself a
schedule. <BWEG> >>
Shay-
This is a. devious, and b. GREAT! I loved this response!
Blessings,
Stephanie
Teacher and Mommy of 4 homeschooling fanatics, wife to the best principal,
protector of many pets and wild ones, and unpublished writer.
***Life's Learnings Academy - Protecting Our Children***
IT'S GREAT TO LEARN WHERE THE PRINCIPAL LOVES YOU
ICQ: 43428000 AOL IM: Lifeslearn
s-seaborne@... writes:
<< If my dd asked for this, my first assignment for her would be: make a
list of what you want to learn, and how you want to learn it. Second
assignment would be: now, take that first list and make yourself a
schedule. <BWEG> >>
Shay-
This is a. devious, and b. GREAT! I loved this response!
Blessings,
Stephanie
Teacher and Mommy of 4 homeschooling fanatics, wife to the best principal,
protector of many pets and wild ones, and unpublished writer.
***Life's Learnings Academy - Protecting Our Children***
IT'S GREAT TO LEARN WHERE THE PRINCIPAL LOVES YOU
ICQ: 43428000 AOL IM: Lifeslearn