Lisa Anselmo <[email protected]>

At our house we have the big bed and the little bed. People (and
cats) are free to sleep where they wish. Sometimes Dad and
Nick sleep in the big bed (he loves to sleep with dad!),
sometimes Nick and I. I have even been known to shack up with
dad in the little bed. We have also been known to switch in the
middle of the night. Ever go to the bathroom just to come back
and find your spot in the bed gone?

I grew up with lots of people in a very small house. By necessity I
slept with my parents, my grandmother, or one of my three
sisters until I was about 8 or 9. Even after I got my own bed I still
shared a room with my sis until I was 13 or 14. Even now when I
go home to visit my mom either I sleep with her, or Nick does, or
Nick sleeps with me. Co-sleeping has always been a very
pleasant and comforting part of my life.

Lisa

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/02 7:39:26 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< trying to convince others that our family is not "bad" or "wrong" I''ll
put my childrens "rights" and "freedoms" up to yours ( or anyone elses)
anytime >>

Whoever said "bad" or even "wrong". Don't think I did. I did question the
term "every family has to do what works for them" as I disagree with that
sentiment.
I have no desire to compare rights or freedoms with anyone. I'm very
confident and content with my choices.

Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/02 12:08:58 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< < So if kids can't go to sleep on their own after years of parent-
> initiated bedtime rituals, is there a way to break them of the
> habit? My daughter gets upset when she can't go to a sleepover
> because she needs mom and her own bed. >>

I don't think you should beat yourself up for having bedtime rituals. You
don't know that this is why she's very needy at bedtime, it could just be a
personality thing.
I have one that in spite of being allowed to sleep anywhere, only sleeps well
in his own bed. He's a home body in a lot of ways, and he's my oldest!
If she wants to sleep over, but needs you at night, then her need for you is
outweighing her need for independence.
Eventually, if you keep on being a comfort when she needs it, she will decide
she is strong enough to do this on her own.
If she is really bothered by the fact that she can't sleep over, I would help
her with some of the ideas that were previously listed. Also have her go to
sleep overs with the knowledge that she can call you at any time to go pick
her up should she change her mind. Just knowing that she isn't stuck could
make her more confident.
Or plan on picking her up late, so she enjoys the fun parts without the
bedtime stress.


Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/02 3:19:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:

> I did question the
> term "every family has to do what works for them" as I disagree with that
> sentiment.
> I have no desire to compare rights or freedoms with anyone. I'm very
> confident and content with my choices.
>

So, are you basically saying that every family has to do what works for your
family? You do compare your childrens freedoms, you just gave a detailed
description of your bed time. I am confident in my choices as well, and I
dont feel the need to exert them on anyone else

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Traaseth

grlynbl@... wrote: ** I
dont feel the need to exert them on anyone else**



Teresa,



I don't think Ren was exerting her evening or practices on anyone. She was just sharing. And isn't that what this list is?



I think we all know that every family does things differently, but don't you think that those families that have done unschooling for years will know what is best to have a successful unschooling life? They've lived it. Several of these long time posters have done it for 10 years or longer!



I've only been doing this whole unschooling life for maybe 6 months and I know I don't know a fraction of what Sandra or Tia or Ren (and others) know. I probably post too much, but you know what? I am learning so much! I am glad that Ren posts her evenings and Sandra too. They aren't telling me that what I do is wrong, they are just saying that these types of things are working for them. And these things are definitely unschooling things in an unschooling life.



From what I've gathered on some of these struggles/conflicts, not just this one, but others that have come up also, not just you Teresa, is that when people are new to unschooling it seems that unschooling is separate from the rest of their life. And I am not saying your life is this way. I don't know your life. I am talking in generalities.



I know that when I started, I thought our unschooling would only be the way we learned about things, well, for us to unschool successfully, it has come into our whole life, all aspects--parenting, working, playing--basically living life. And perhaps this is where the conflict lies, perhaps different parenting styles and lifestyles do work successfully, but the question is -- will these different parenting styles and lifestyles actually foster a successful unschooling environment?? And, I think, that this is what this list is all about.



I would think that experience does have some benefits. I can only look back on the last 6 months or so, others can look back on years and years.



I hope everyone can take this with an open heart, I am not trying to be preachy or anything, I'm just trying to get across what I've seen happen a few times.



Kelli





In a message dated 12/12/02 3:19:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:

> I did question the
> term "every family has to do what works for them" as I disagree with that
> sentiment.
> I have no desire to compare rights or freedoms with anyone. I'm very
> confident and content with my choices.
>

So, are you basically saying that every family has to do what works for your
family? You do compare your childrens freedoms, you just gave a detailed
description of your bed time. I am confident in my choices as well, and I
dont feel the need to exert them on anyone else

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/02 1:47:16 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:

<< If she is really bothered by the fact that she can't sleep over, I would
help
her with some of the ideas that were previously listed. Also have her go to
sleep overs with the knowledge that she can call you at any time to go pick
her up should she change her mind. Just knowing that she isn't stuck could
make her more confident. >>

Holly used to call us lots, so the deal with her on overnights was how far it
was from our house. Only once were we unable to pick her up, and the other
times Keith or I went over and got her. Usually about 11:00 or 11:30.

When a family let the kid stay up late, Holly was fine. She would play and
then fall asleep talking. But if the parents had a 10:00 go-to-sleep deal,
Holly would try and try and fail, and finally get spooked listening to the
noises in another house, and get frustrated from being wide awake and fearing
to wake other people up. A couple of times she cried in the morning because
she would have liked to have been there for breakfast and more playing.
When it was walking distance, sometimes she went back. Other times, we just
comforted her and said "Maybe next time."

My mom would have said "NO" to overnighters if I had gotten that way. But I
think of it this way: I preferred an overnight visit in a scary,
uncomfortable house to being home many times because I wasn't let out enough
and I was curious and needy for knowing about other people and other places.
Holly isn't needy, and she feels safer and more comfortable in her own house
than I did. So I look at what's good about it instead of what's a failure
and an irritation.

Holly asked me when she was already pretty old, like seven or so, how people
go to sleep. "How do people go to sleep when they want to, mom?"

I was talking to her about breathing more shallowly and stilling her mind,
getting comfortable and warm, thinking about feeling the way you do when
you're asleep... and somewhere in there it came up that she didn't know
people closed their eyes. I hadn't thought to mention it. My mom used to
say "SHUT YOUR EYES" at naptime so much that my mom came to settle for me
sqeezing my eyes shut and just being still on the bed to pass for a nap. So
"shut your eyes" was the total given for me. I didn't know I had never told
Holly to close her eyes and go to sleep.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/2002 9:57:00 AM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> So
> "shut your eyes" was the total given for me. I didn't know I had never
> told
> Holly to close her eyes and go to sleep.
>

My two little ones often ask if it's ok for them to sleep with their eyes
open. I now say yes, if they want to rest and not sleep, that's ok. That's
why we call it quiet time now. And most of the time they aren't quiet. But
I used to tell them to close their eyes.

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/02 9:44:13 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< So, are you basically saying that every family has to do what works for
your
family? >>

What "works" for each family is going to be very different from home to home
because you have individuals with different needs/personalities etc....
But if you're talking about whether or not to give children freedom of
choice, I will always advocate for the child.
Yes, every family should take their children seriously. Every family should
consider their children important enough to have equal say in how things are
run.
Beyond that basic principle of freedom, no one is going to do things just
like my family, nor would I advocate it.
That would be ignoring the unique blend of people that makes up your family.

Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/2002 7:48:31 PM Central Standard Time,
lanselmo3@... writes:

> Co-sleeping has always been a very
> pleasant and comforting part of my life.
>

As the youngest child and the only girl, I never slept with anybody. When I
was married the first time, he worked nights and I worked days, so I didn't
have to sleep with him, either. Then I was single for a few years and the
boys slept together. Then current hubby travelled for a long time, so I
didn't sleep much with him, either. I like it that way! I don't want anyone
snoring in my ear or furnacing up the bed. I've tolerated my youngest for
these 9 years, but he's reaching snoring age, too!

As soon as I get these young adults out of the house for good (10 years,
maybe? <g>), I'm getting my own room!

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jim Selvage

This whole sleep over thing has me remembering. My daughter has only gone
to one sleep over in her life (as in party type thing, she has stayed at
other peoples houses when we had to be out of town and such). We had told
her she could call and tell us at anytime to come get her and we would.
Well, when everyone else was going to sleep, and she didn't think she could,
she wanted to come home. She told her friend's mom that she wanted to come
home and she wanted to call us. The mother did not want her to call and
kept telling her she shouldn't do that. Of course, being our daughter, she
argued with the mom until the mom let her call us. We of course,
immediately went and picked her up and assured her that she did the right
thing and her friend's mom was wrong not to let her call! She has never
gone to a sleep over since.

So, just for your info, make sure the other child's parents are willing to
let her leave if she wants to!

many blessings,
erin
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] bedtime rituals


>
> In a message dated 12/12/02 1:47:16 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
>
> << If she is really bothered by the fact that she can't sleep over, I
would
> help
> her with some of the ideas that were previously listed. Also have her go
to
> sleep overs with the knowledge that she can call you at any time to go
pick
> her up should she change her mind. Just knowing that she isn't stuck could
> make her more confident. >>
>
> Holly used to call us lots, so the deal with her on overnights was how far
it
> was from our house. Only once were we unable to pick her up, and the
other
> times Keith or I went over and got her. Usually about 11:00 or 11:30.
>
> When a family let the kid stay up late, Holly was fine. She would play
and
> then fall asleep talking. But if the parents had a 10:00 go-to-sleep
deal,
> Holly would try and try and fail, and finally get spooked listening to the
> noises in another house, and get frustrated from being wide awake and
fearing
> to wake other people up. A couple of times she cried in the morning
because
> she would have liked to have been there for breakfast and more playing.
> When it was walking distance, sometimes she went back. Other times, we
just
> comforted her and said "Maybe next time."
>
> My mom would have said "NO" to overnighters if I had gotten that way. But
I
> think of it this way: I preferred an overnight visit in a scary,
> uncomfortable house to being home many times because I wasn't let out
enough
> and I was curious and needy for knowing about other people and other
places.
> Holly isn't needy, and she feels safer and more comfortable in her own
house
> than I did. So I look at what's good about it instead of what's a
failure
> and an irritation.
>
> Holly asked me when she was already pretty old, like seven or so, how
people
> go to sleep. "How do people go to sleep when they want to, mom?"
>
> I was talking to her about breathing more shallowly and stilling her mind,
> getting comfortable and warm, thinking about feeling the way you do when
> you're asleep... and somewhere in there it came up that she didn't know
> people closed their eyes. I hadn't thought to mention it. My mom used to
> say "SHUT YOUR EYES" at naptime so much that my mom came to settle for me
> sqeezing my eyes shut and just being still on the bed to pass for a nap.
So
> "shut your eyes" was the total given for me. I didn't know I had never
told
> Holly to close her eyes and go to sleep.
>
> Sandra
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/2002 6:19:29 PM Central Standard Time,
jselvage@... writes:

> The mother did not want her to call and
> kept telling her she shouldn't do that. Of course, being our daughter, she
> argued with the mom until the mom let her call us. We of course,
> immediately went and picked her up and assured her that she did the right
> thing and her friend's mom was wrong not to let her call! She has never
> gone to a sleep over since.
>
>

Yeah, we always make sure the other parents know it's okay for my son to call
no matter what time it is. And to the parents who tell me this when their
kids are here I reply, "I'll make sure he knows where the phone is!"

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/2002 11:19:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ejcrewe@... writes:
> But I used to tell them to close their eyes.
>

My first grade teacher told me that at naptime. Didn't work, so I reversed
it---I MADE myself keep my eyes OPEN. Now THAT worked very quickly! I was
out in no time! <G>

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/15/2002 9:38:04 AM Central Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:

> My first grade teacher told me that at naptime. Didn't work, so I reversed
> it---I MADE myself keep my eyes OPEN. Now THAT worked very quickly! I was
> out in no time! <G>
>

When I rocked my babies at those times when they were wide-awake and staring
straight into my eyes and I just couldn't stay up with them another hour, I
would pretend to fall asleep. Rock rock, lids drop and open, rock rock, lids
drop more slowly, rock rock, eyes lose focus, rock rock, baby's eyes begin to
mimic mine. I swear, they would just fall right to sleep just like that, as
long as they were relaxed enough to maintain my gaze. Otherwise, they would
have just kept those big brown globes peeled until I was too sleepy from
rocking to get out of the rocking chair!

Strictly the power of suggestion. Sometimes a mom needs to get the baby to
sleep, you know?

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

> Well, when everyone else was going to sleep, and she didn't think she
could,
> she wanted to come home. She told her friend's mom that she wanted to
come
> home and she wanted to call us. The mother did not want her to call and
> kept telling her she shouldn't do that. Of course, being our daughter,
she
> argued with the mom until the mom let her call us. We of course,
> immediately went and picked her up and assured her that she did the right
> thing and her friend's mom was wrong not to let her call! She has never
> gone to a sleep over since.
>
> So, just for your info, make sure the other child's parents are willing to
> let her leave if she wants to!

When my granddaughter (7) tried school last year, my daughter told her if
she didn't like it she could call and get picked up. The teacher wouldn't
let her call. Skye still wanted to try it the next day so Heather sent her
with a note saying to let her call. She still wouldn't let her. (Actually
this teacher was the perfect teacher for Skye to try school with. There was
no way Skye wanted to stay, though she did last a week. There was some
performance coming up that she wanted to be in.)

When I've had a kid over here who was uncomfortable and wanted to go home,
I've usually asked them to try for just a little bit longer to see if they
can fall asleep. If they can't, I call the parents. And if they weren't
comfortable with that, I'd call right away.
Tia

Tia Leschke

> > But I used to tell them to close their eyes.
> >
>
> My first grade teacher told me that at naptime. Didn't work, so I reversed
> it---I MADE myself keep my eyes OPEN. Now THAT worked very quickly! I was
> out in no time! <G>

When I've got a kid saying they can't sleep, I tell them to stop trying.
It's the trying that's keeping them awake. Sometimes I'll tell them to see
if they can stay awake all night. I've never had one be able to do it.
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/23/03 5:17:41 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Can't you videotape it so she can watch it the next day? >>

I STILL have not figured out how to record shows, and it's not like I'm some
idiot with directions. It's ok though, Cuz I have no problem with her staying
up to watch something she likes.
I like staying up and watching it too.
If I was too tired it'd be one thing, but I am usually happy to be up late.
And we get to cuddle in my bed, there's a tv in there. A nice time. If she's
melting down it works well because I can get her away from the boys who are
watching stuff in the living room and be in my room together. She gets Mom
loves and doesn't miss a tv show.
Most of the time when she's tired, she could care less about tv though.
Reading books or chit chat is what she prefers....

Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/23/03 9:13:15 PM, starsuncloud@... writes:

<< I STILL have not figured out how to record shows, and it's not like I'm
some
idiot with directions. >>

Put in a tape and hit "record"?
I don't mean learning to program the VCR. <g>
If one person's awake, it can be recorded for the little ones asleep.

But it would need to be set up so there's input into the VCR too, not just
output. I'd come over and do it if you were in town. <g>

How old is your oldest male child? That's the guy to ask.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/24/03 1:51:33 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Put in a tape and hit "record"?
I don't mean learning to program the VCR. <g>
If one person's awake, it can be recorded for the little ones asleep. >>

It's never worked.
I have tried and tried and tried. I checked the channel, it was set right, I
checked the cords, they were plugged in right, but it STILL won't record a
dang thing.
I've had problems with this VCR all around. I can't get my HI8 videos
transferred to VHS because of this.
It's frustrating because I used to record stuff all the time with our old VCR.
??

Ren
"The world's much smaller than you think. Made up of two kinds of
people--simple and complicated.....The simple ones are contented. The
complicated ones aren't."
"Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

Robyn Coburn

Ren,



You may just have a lemon of a VCR. Try contacting the manufacturer or
looking up their website. If you have a problem chances are others do
too, and there may have been a class action suit to address it, and they
will pay to have repairs done. We had a similar issue with a CD player,
and it turns out to be a ubiquitous problem with that model that can be
fixed. BTW, do you know how fantastic a satellite dish is with its hard
drive recording capabilities (30 hours)?



Robyn Coburn



<<It's never worked.
I have tried and tried and tried. I checked the channel, it was set
right, I
checked the cords, they were plugged in right, but it STILL won't record
a
dang thing.
I've had problems with this VCR all around. I can't get my HI8 videos
transferred to VHS because of this.
It's frustrating because I used to record stuff all the time with our
old VCR.>>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]