gaps between adults and children, or living as people
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/23/02 2:26:17 PM, freeform@... writes:
<< We do adjust our behavior for different situations, but having kids
around doesn't tend to define the situation. >>
Good way to put it.
My kids and I can both adjust our behaviors depending who's around, what
their sensitivities are preferences are, etc.
We can discuss R rated movies with our kids, too.
I think a family with a teenager (even a young teen) who hasn't seen R rated
movies with the parents is in such a different mindset from our family that
the discussion will be apples and avocados.
-=-> Trying to overcome that would be a huge step toward understanding
That's fine, but I do and truly believe that unschooling will be difficult if
you deal differently with your teenaged daughter, and you don't consider
yourself to be her peer, than you deal with other people. The more you treat
her like a whole person instead of a child, the easier it will be for you to
understand what unschoolers are talking about when they talk about natural
learning.
<<Kids are not "little adults" >>
<<I think some topics are inappropiate for children to be exposed to. >>
I think there are a few, depending on the child. But if the rule is made
expressly to separate children from adults, that gap is hard to bridge.
<<My husband and I maybe out for dinner and drinks with another
couple, and the conversations turns to sex, or we may discuss an R rated
movie that we have seen recently. I may have a heart to heart talk with a
girlfriend or sister about marital problems. I may discuss concerns for
over my childrens behavior with another mother. My husband and I may
disdoesn't necessarily have to do with age differences.
If you don't ever discuss sex with a thirteen year old girl, that's going to
be a problem any day now. I'm more likely to discuss concerns over my c
hildren's behavior with them or their friends than with my other adult
friends. But because of that I have very few concerns about their behavior.
It's not something that's discussed behind their backs, it's one part of the
larger relationship--both my concerns and their behavior. My concerns are
often more a problem than their actions. They call it "mom stuff." They're
sensitive to "mom stuff," but they know it for what it is--protective
instinct, projection, sensitivity to what others think...
Because they are acknowledged to have as much mature ("adult" perhaps in your
parlance) awareness and sensitivity as they come to have, they have quite a
full range of it! If I waited for them to be 16 or 18 to talk about human
interrelationships, why moms worry, why kids need freedom, why their friends
are being the way they are, they would have made dozens or hundreds of
mistakes without the benefit of analysis before they got to the point that
they would be out on their own.
<< Don't we all adjust our behavior to the situation and
circumstances that we are in? >>
I speak differently with longterm friends than I would with their
grandmothers. I discuss different things with toddlers than I do with
teenagers. But in every case, I am relieved when and if that other person is
able to meet me as a person and talk about something real and meaningful.
And it will happen more often if you expect it to happen and allow for it to
happen.
The situation and circumstances of unschooling, in my own life, have involved
helping my children be in the world by their being in the world, with
discussion and commentary and analysis. In that exploration, I am their
peer. I got here first, but I don't know everything. They learn from me,
but I learn from them too.
I know this was just lately mentioned, but it's too applicable not to mention
again here:
http://sandradodd.com/zeneverything
Holly discussing "zen" before she could read, Marty discussing parenting when
he was three, Kirby discussing how learning is passed on...
Sandra
<< We do adjust our behavior for different situations, but having kids
around doesn't tend to define the situation. >>
Good way to put it.
My kids and I can both adjust our behaviors depending who's around, what
their sensitivities are preferences are, etc.
We can discuss R rated movies with our kids, too.
I think a family with a teenager (even a young teen) who hasn't seen R rated
movies with the parents is in such a different mindset from our family that
the discussion will be apples and avocados.
-=-> Trying to overcome that would be a huge step toward understanding
> unschooling.<<I dont see that as something to overcome. -=-
That's fine, but I do and truly believe that unschooling will be difficult if
you deal differently with your teenaged daughter, and you don't consider
yourself to be her peer, than you deal with other people. The more you treat
her like a whole person instead of a child, the easier it will be for you to
understand what unschoolers are talking about when they talk about natural
learning.
<<Kids are not "little adults" >>
<<I think some topics are inappropiate for children to be exposed to. >>
I think there are a few, depending on the child. But if the rule is made
expressly to separate children from adults, that gap is hard to bridge.
<<My husband and I maybe out for dinner and drinks with another
couple, and the conversations turns to sex, or we may discuss an R rated
movie that we have seen recently. I may have a heart to heart talk with a
girlfriend or sister about marital problems. I may discuss concerns for
over my childrens behavior with another mother. My husband and I may
disdoesn't necessarily have to do with age differences.
If you don't ever discuss sex with a thirteen year old girl, that's going to
be a problem any day now. I'm more likely to discuss concerns over my c
hildren's behavior with them or their friends than with my other adult
friends. But because of that I have very few concerns about their behavior.
It's not something that's discussed behind their backs, it's one part of the
larger relationship--both my concerns and their behavior. My concerns are
often more a problem than their actions. They call it "mom stuff." They're
sensitive to "mom stuff," but they know it for what it is--protective
instinct, projection, sensitivity to what others think...
Because they are acknowledged to have as much mature ("adult" perhaps in your
parlance) awareness and sensitivity as they come to have, they have quite a
full range of it! If I waited for them to be 16 or 18 to talk about human
interrelationships, why moms worry, why kids need freedom, why their friends
are being the way they are, they would have made dozens or hundreds of
mistakes without the benefit of analysis before they got to the point that
they would be out on their own.
<< Don't we all adjust our behavior to the situation and
circumstances that we are in? >>
I speak differently with longterm friends than I would with their
grandmothers. I discuss different things with toddlers than I do with
teenagers. But in every case, I am relieved when and if that other person is
able to meet me as a person and talk about something real and meaningful.
And it will happen more often if you expect it to happen and allow for it to
happen.
The situation and circumstances of unschooling, in my own life, have involved
helping my children be in the world by their being in the world, with
discussion and commentary and analysis. In that exploration, I am their
peer. I got here first, but I don't know everything. They learn from me,
but I learn from them too.
I know this was just lately mentioned, but it's too applicable not to mention
again here:
http://sandradodd.com/zeneverything
Holly discussing "zen" before she could read, Marty discussing parenting when
he was three, Kirby discussing how learning is passed on...
Sandra
[email protected]
My oldest son read about sex in a Parent Handbook of Childcraft when he was
9. All about how to explain it to your children, complete with pictures,
Intercourse.. penis, vagina, sperm. the whole nine yards. He had
unrestricted access to any book he wanted to read. He loved medical
encyclopedias. We told him the facts about getting pregnant when he was 8..
I was pregnant with my 4th child. He said.. Moma, I know that the egg inside
you gets fertilized by the seed inside Daddy, but how does the seed get
there? I said.. "Well, you know where the seed is stored in Daddy, right? He
nodded, "yes,in his testicles." "OK", I said.. "and where is the egg stored
in Mommy?" "In her ovaries" he repliled.. "Yes," I said. and where are
they.?" He pointed to the correct place on his tummy. "Thats right", I
said.. "So, how what do you think the quickest route from Mommy to Daddy
would be?" He though a minute and his eyes got wide.. He said.. "You mean,
.. Daddy puts his penis inside your vagina?" "Yes, thats right" I said
"Men and women have sex because they love each other. When they make love,
the sperm comes out of the man and if the womans egg is just right, she can
get pregnant" And thats how he learned the basics of sex. My daugher
learned when she was about 10, she wasnt quite a precocious. My 11 yo son
still doesnt know ALL about sex, but when he asks, when he's ready, he'll
know too. When my oldest son was about 10, he came downstairs one night to
our bed. He was very worried.. He wanted to ask me something. .. "What is it
honey" I asked him.. He said.." Well, Ive been worrying about this, and I
just wanted to ask you if anything was wrong" "Ok, what is it, you can ask
me" I reassured him. He said.. "Well, sometimes when I play with my penis it
gets all slippery, is that supposed to happen?" I said. " Oh, yeah, yeah,
dont worry about that, that is perfectly normal. nothing is wrong with you,
your fine" He said., very relieved.. "Oh good, I was scared about it" My
children have seen selective R rated movies since they were as young as 8.
It all depends on the child and the content. Anna wont watch Titantic
because she is too tender hearted. Sex doesnt "bother" Landon ( hes 16)
but graphic violence does. Ethan and JP seem to get a thrill from the gore
and guts, but too much "supernatural" stuff bothers them. If we want to
have wine or beer with our supper, we do. If we want to tell dirty jokes, we
do. If we want to get mad and cuss each other out, we do. Landons friends
smoke pot, but Landon doesnt. If he smokes or drinks, he'll call one of us to
come get him.. But I highly doubt he will becasue he thinks its ignorant.
Some of Anna's friends have experimented with sex, but Anna hasnt.. If she
wants to, she'll talk to me about it.
You see, you dont really know me. You have made assumptions about me and my
family that are way off the mark. I may not be an "unschooler" but that
certainly doesnt mean i am an uptight repressed overprotective parent. Most
parent are shocked by my parenting approach. I hope none of you are too
shocked.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9. All about how to explain it to your children, complete with pictures,
Intercourse.. penis, vagina, sperm. the whole nine yards. He had
unrestricted access to any book he wanted to read. He loved medical
encyclopedias. We told him the facts about getting pregnant when he was 8..
I was pregnant with my 4th child. He said.. Moma, I know that the egg inside
you gets fertilized by the seed inside Daddy, but how does the seed get
there? I said.. "Well, you know where the seed is stored in Daddy, right? He
nodded, "yes,in his testicles." "OK", I said.. "and where is the egg stored
in Mommy?" "In her ovaries" he repliled.. "Yes," I said. and where are
they.?" He pointed to the correct place on his tummy. "Thats right", I
said.. "So, how what do you think the quickest route from Mommy to Daddy
would be?" He though a minute and his eyes got wide.. He said.. "You mean,
.. Daddy puts his penis inside your vagina?" "Yes, thats right" I said
"Men and women have sex because they love each other. When they make love,
the sperm comes out of the man and if the womans egg is just right, she can
get pregnant" And thats how he learned the basics of sex. My daugher
learned when she was about 10, she wasnt quite a precocious. My 11 yo son
still doesnt know ALL about sex, but when he asks, when he's ready, he'll
know too. When my oldest son was about 10, he came downstairs one night to
our bed. He was very worried.. He wanted to ask me something. .. "What is it
honey" I asked him.. He said.." Well, Ive been worrying about this, and I
just wanted to ask you if anything was wrong" "Ok, what is it, you can ask
me" I reassured him. He said.. "Well, sometimes when I play with my penis it
gets all slippery, is that supposed to happen?" I said. " Oh, yeah, yeah,
dont worry about that, that is perfectly normal. nothing is wrong with you,
your fine" He said., very relieved.. "Oh good, I was scared about it" My
children have seen selective R rated movies since they were as young as 8.
It all depends on the child and the content. Anna wont watch Titantic
because she is too tender hearted. Sex doesnt "bother" Landon ( hes 16)
but graphic violence does. Ethan and JP seem to get a thrill from the gore
and guts, but too much "supernatural" stuff bothers them. If we want to
have wine or beer with our supper, we do. If we want to tell dirty jokes, we
do. If we want to get mad and cuss each other out, we do. Landons friends
smoke pot, but Landon doesnt. If he smokes or drinks, he'll call one of us to
come get him.. But I highly doubt he will becasue he thinks its ignorant.
Some of Anna's friends have experimented with sex, but Anna hasnt.. If she
wants to, she'll talk to me about it.
You see, you dont really know me. You have made assumptions about me and my
family that are way off the mark. I may not be an "unschooler" but that
certainly doesnt mean i am an uptight repressed overprotective parent. Most
parent are shocked by my parenting approach. I hope none of you are too
shocked.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/23/02 3:34:00 PM, grlynbl@... writes:
<< Anna wont watch Titantic
because she is too tender hearted. >>
I haven't watched Titanic, and I'm 49.
But all my kids have watched The Adventures of Priscilla, the Queen of the
Desert.
Actually, our DVD player (the Playstation II) doesn't even question putting
that in, but The Fellowship of the Ring has to have a code put in to confirm
we really want to watch that violence.
Sandra
<< Anna wont watch Titantic
because she is too tender hearted. >>
I haven't watched Titanic, and I'm 49.
But all my kids have watched The Adventures of Priscilla, the Queen of the
Desert.
Actually, our DVD player (the Playstation II) doesn't even question putting
that in, but The Fellowship of the Ring has to have a code put in to confirm
we really want to watch that violence.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/23/02 7:49:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
days. I just kept thinking. This was REAL. this REALLY happened.. it wasnt
"just" a movie...
T
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> << Anna wont watch TitanticI watched it, but I regretted it. I swear, I was in a deep depression for
> because she is too tender hearted. >>
>
> I haven't watched Titanic, and I'm 49.
>
>
days. I just kept thinking. This was REAL. this REALLY happened.. it wasnt
"just" a movie...
T
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/23/02 7:49:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Along with the other 3 or 4 other women who were in there sobbing.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> << Anna wont watch TitanticI went into the puclic restrooms and SOBBED afterwards.
> because she is too tender hearted. >>
>
>
Along with the other 3 or 4 other women who were in there sobbing.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
On 24 Nov 02, at 8:58, Earthmomma67@... wrote:
cheesiness and had to hurry out of the theatre to glares from
everyone else.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
> In a message dated 11/23/02 7:49:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,I must be evil then. I got hit by an inappropriate giggling fit at the
> SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> > << Anna wont watch Titantic
> > because she is too tender hearted. >>
> >
> >
>
> I went into the puclic restrooms and SOBBED afterwards.
> Along with the other 3 or 4 other women who were in there sobbing.
> Elissa
cheesiness and had to hurry out of the theatre to glares from
everyone else.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/24/02 10:31:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
shyrley.williams@... writes:
seemed like half of the dialogue was JACK! ROSE! JACK? And my and my
family still make fun of that.. Never let go Jack, Never let go.....
BUT, the horror of the actual tragedy was depressing.. And I couldnt sleep
for days thinking about all of those people that really died just like the
movie showed.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shyrley.williams@... writes:
> I must be evil then. I got hit by an inappropriate giggling fit at theOh I agree, parts of it were really cheesy.. ROSE? JACK? JACK? ROSE? It
> cheesiness and had to hurry out of the theatre to glares from
> everyone else.
>
seemed like half of the dialogue was JACK! ROSE! JACK? And my and my
family still make fun of that.. Never let go Jack, Never let go.....
BUT, the horror of the actual tragedy was depressing.. And I couldnt sleep
for days thinking about all of those people that really died just like the
movie showed.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Yep, me too. Couldn't stop sobbing! I swear I dreamt about certain scenes for weeks.
I was going to tell you which ones, but I don't want to put those images into others minds who havn't seen it and reknew them for those who did! Very Intense!
Kelli
Earthmomma67@... wrote:In a message dated 11/23/02 7:49:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Along with the other 3 or 4 other women who were in there sobbing.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was going to tell you which ones, but I don't want to put those images into others minds who havn't seen it and reknew them for those who did! Very Intense!
Kelli
Earthmomma67@... wrote:In a message dated 11/23/02 7:49:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> << Anna wont watch TitanticI went into the puclic restrooms and SOBBED afterwards.
> because she is too tender hearted. >>
>
>
Along with the other 3 or 4 other women who were in there sobbing.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Thank you both for the warning ... I've never watched Titanic, for the same
reasons, and now I know I never want to.......!!!!
Linda
In a message dated 11/24/02 12:19:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
grlynbl@... writes:
I watched it, but I regretted it. I swear, I was in a deep depression for
days. I just kept thinking. This was REAL. this REALLY happened.. it wasnt
"just" a movie...
reasons, and now I know I never want to.......!!!!
Linda
In a message dated 11/24/02 12:19:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
grlynbl@... writes:
I watched it, but I regretted it. I swear, I was in a deep depression for
days. I just kept thinking. This was REAL. this REALLY happened.. it wasnt
"just" a movie...
> In a message dated 11/23/02 7:49:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> > << Anna wont watch Titantic
> > because she is too tender hearted. >>
> >
> > I haven't watched Titanic, and I'm 49.
>
Shyrley
On 23 Nov 02, at 19:48, SandraDodd@... wrote:
Mind you, one of our DVD's says it contains 'language'
Just what is the world coming too when something could have
'language' in it!!
Is it just me or is everyone turning into big sissies.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
>Good grief.
> In a message dated 11/23/02 3:34:00 PM, grlynbl@... writes:
>
> << Anna wont watch Titantic
> because she is too tender hearted. >>
>
> I haven't watched Titanic, and I'm 49.
>
> But all my kids have watched The Adventures of Priscilla, the Queen of
> the Desert. Actually, our DVD player (the Playstation II) doesn't even
> question putting that in, but The Fellowship of the Ring has to have a
> code put in to confirm we really want to watch that violence.
>
> Sandra
Mind you, one of our DVD's says it contains 'language'
Just what is the world coming too when something could have
'language' in it!!
Is it just me or is everyone turning into big sissies.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
[email protected]
i have never seen tiantic mostly because i'm not a romantic movie type but i
have heard it playing thoughout the house since my daughter is in love with
this movie and every once in a while i will walk threw the house and just
scream JACK!!!!! .....ROSE!!!!!!!
i think its funny anyway, she don't .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
have heard it playing thoughout the house since my daughter is in love with
this movie and every once in a while i will walk threw the house and just
scream JACK!!!!! .....ROSE!!!!!!!
i think its funny anyway, she don't .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Q
I'm new here, this is my first post to the group. Just wanted to say I
totally agree with you, Shyrley. My husband was all weepy at the end of
Titanic but I blew a great big raspberry at the screen!
Same exact thing happened when we saw "The Bridges of Madison County." I
handed Dh a
packet of tissues and said, "Oh, PLEASE, give me a break".
Hikaru
totally agree with you, Shyrley. My husband was all weepy at the end of
Titanic but I blew a great big raspberry at the screen!
Same exact thing happened when we saw "The Bridges of Madison County." I
handed Dh a
packet of tissues and said, "Oh, PLEASE, give me a break".
Hikaru
> > << Anna wont watch Titantic
> > because she is too tender hearted. >>
> >
> >
>
> I went into the puclic restrooms and SOBBED afterwards.
> Along with the other 3 or 4 other women who were in there sobbing.
> Elissa
>I must be evil then. I got hit by an inappropriate giggling fit at the
>cheesiness and had to hurry out of the theatre to glares from
>everyone else.
>Shyrley
[email protected]
On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:48:31 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
even though she knew it was based on a true story she responded to it as
fiction because it was clearly fictionalized and hollywoodized. OTOH,
last week she watched something PBS about using DNA technology to
identify remains of Titanic victims, and she came to me in tears about
the story of the one child whose remains were found. And pinned to her
wall she has a facsimile of a Titanic ticket with the name of an actual
passenger (who survived) that she got when we went to the Arizona
Science Center with Karin and her boys, and she talks about the woman
sometimes...
It's interesting. She reads all sorts of books that people say are scary
and too adult for her, but it's exclusively fiction, even though some are
based on historical fact (she just read Stones in Water). She's almost
never upset by books she reads, fiction is apparently abstract enough for
her to read at arm's length... but news stories and documentaries
frequently bring her to tears.
Dar
>Rain watched Titanic on TV and was fine with it - it was a story to her,
> In a message dated 11/23/02 3:34:00 PM, grlynbl@... writes:
>
> << Anna wont watch Titantic
> because she is too tender hearted. >>
>
> I haven't watched Titanic, and I'm 49.
even though she knew it was based on a true story she responded to it as
fiction because it was clearly fictionalized and hollywoodized. OTOH,
last week she watched something PBS about using DNA technology to
identify remains of Titanic victims, and she came to me in tears about
the story of the one child whose remains were found. And pinned to her
wall she has a facsimile of a Titanic ticket with the name of an actual
passenger (who survived) that she got when we went to the Arizona
Science Center with Karin and her boys, and she talks about the woman
sometimes...
It's interesting. She reads all sorts of books that people say are scary
and too adult for her, but it's exclusively fiction, even though some are
based on historical fact (she just read Stones in Water). She's almost
never upset by books she reads, fiction is apparently abstract enough for
her to read at arm's length... but news stories and documentaries
frequently bring her to tears.
Dar