Re: HSLDA Paranoia
Shay Seaborne
From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
<<That is H$LDA in a nut shell. What amazes is they seem to be a magnat
for
folks such as Scott who is less crediable at practicing law than the
average legal secretary!>>>
Here in their home state, they seem to have "invented" a new option, the
umbrella school. Their handout on state law includes a document that
says we can join this umbrella school, and be a "satellite" campus of a
private school. Of course, the umbrella school, set up after Chris
Klicka's model, requires membership in HSLDA. But, if we are operating as
a private *school* then we are *not* homeschooling, so why do we need to
join a so-called "homeschooling" organization? DUH!
Not to mention, the statute explicity states that "Instruction of
children by their parents...shall not be classified...as a private,
denominational, or parochial school." Makes me wonder what in the heck
they're doing.
<SNIP> a form for me that starts out by me admitting that I knew I was
breaking the law.>>
Really? I wanna' see!
<SNIP> By using their advise of calling H$LDA before you answer the door,
blocking the door, sending your kids to hide in another room, you justify
investigating a report.>>>
<SNIP> If you treat the vast majority of these folks like people instead
of with
paranoia, you get treated the same.>>>
That seems true to me.
<<< But then, who would join H$LDA??>>>
Those, who are unaware of the true situation. I think there are probably
many members who don't realize the real nature of the organiztion.
Recently, a mom in my support group said, "I thought they were just a
nice bunch of lawyers offering legal insurance." AAACCKKK!
-Shay
FOLC eclectic homeschool support group http://expage.com/page/folcfolks
VaEclecticHomeschool discussion list
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/VaEclecticHomeschool
Virginia Home Education Association
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~pm6f/vhea.html
National Home Education Network http://www.nhen.org
<<That is H$LDA in a nut shell. What amazes is they seem to be a magnat
for
folks such as Scott who is less crediable at practicing law than the
average legal secretary!>>>
Here in their home state, they seem to have "invented" a new option, the
umbrella school. Their handout on state law includes a document that
says we can join this umbrella school, and be a "satellite" campus of a
private school. Of course, the umbrella school, set up after Chris
Klicka's model, requires membership in HSLDA. But, if we are operating as
a private *school* then we are *not* homeschooling, so why do we need to
join a so-called "homeschooling" organization? DUH!
Not to mention, the statute explicity states that "Instruction of
children by their parents...shall not be classified...as a private,
denominational, or parochial school." Makes me wonder what in the heck
they're doing.
<SNIP> a form for me that starts out by me admitting that I knew I was
breaking the law.>>
Really? I wanna' see!
<SNIP> By using their advise of calling H$LDA before you answer the door,
blocking the door, sending your kids to hide in another room, you justify
investigating a report.>>>
<SNIP> If you treat the vast majority of these folks like people instead
of with
paranoia, you get treated the same.>>>
That seems true to me.
<<< But then, who would join H$LDA??>>>
Those, who are unaware of the true situation. I think there are probably
many members who don't realize the real nature of the organiztion.
Recently, a mom in my support group said, "I thought they were just a
nice bunch of lawyers offering legal insurance." AAACCKKK!
-Shay
FOLC eclectic homeschool support group http://expage.com/page/folcfolks
VaEclecticHomeschool discussion list
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/VaEclecticHomeschool
Virginia Home Education Association
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~pm6f/vhea.html
National Home Education Network http://www.nhen.org
Jeff & Diane Gwirtz
> <<< But then, who would join H$LDA??>>>I don't know that this is still true, but it used to be that there
>
were states that required homeschoolers to join a church cover. In
turn, these church covers required HSLDA membership. Also, some
state-wide Christian homeschooling orgs send money to support HSLDA
out of membership dues. It's quite a monopoly! We've never joined
and I'm grateful we haven't been forced to.
Diane in KS
Lisa Bugg
>Oh, Shay. Sigh, I know what they are doing. I live in an umbrella school
> Here in their home state, they seem to have "invented" a new option, the
> umbrella school. Their handout on state law includes a document that
> says we can join this umbrella school, and be a "satellite" campus of a
> private school. Of course, the umbrella school, set up after Chris
> Klicka's model, requires membership in HSLDA. But, if we are operating as
> a private *school* then we are *not* homeschooling, so why do we need to
> join a so-called "homeschooling" organization? DUH!
> Not to mention, the statute explicity states that "Instruction of
> children by their parents...shall not be classified...as a private,
> denominational, or parochial school." Makes me wonder what in the heck
> they're doing.
state. Consolidating power is the best way to describe it.
Lisa
[email protected]
<<< But then, who would join H$LDA??>>>
My homeschooling neighbor recommended it to me. Fortunately, I've never
squeezed it into my incredibly tight budget.
Mary Ellen
Snowflakes are on of nature's most fragile things,
but just look at what they can do
when they stick together.
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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My homeschooling neighbor recommended it to me. Fortunately, I've never
squeezed it into my incredibly tight budget.
Mary Ellen
Snowflakes are on of nature's most fragile things,
but just look at what they can do
when they stick together.
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Lynda
I wish I could just once catch on tape or something one of them implying
that what they are selling is legal insurance. I know CA would prosecute!
They have all those folks convinced it is legal insurance and all it is is
membership in an organization that will probably cause you more harm than
help you when you need it.
The form they set up was on AHA-Networking about a year ago. Mary might
have copy or remember the state (I am a total failure at names). I wrote
Scott at the time and asked why he would advise anyone to admit to wrong
doing and got back a rather tangled bunch of hooey that really didn't
address the issue.
It is like the $50 M they are spending to build that college. A stink was
raised about membership money doing that and now they are claiming they are
building an office building for H$LDA headquarters and they are only
"renting" the building to the college. Like an office building would be
set up with classroom.
That's it, I know what annoys me the most about them -- they think we are
all stupid!
Lynda
----------
From: Shay Seaborne <s-seaborne@...>
that what they are selling is legal insurance. I know CA would prosecute!
They have all those folks convinced it is legal insurance and all it is is
membership in an organization that will probably cause you more harm than
help you when you need it.
The form they set up was on AHA-Networking about a year ago. Mary might
have copy or remember the state (I am a total failure at names). I wrote
Scott at the time and asked why he would advise anyone to admit to wrong
doing and got back a rather tangled bunch of hooey that really didn't
address the issue.
It is like the $50 M they are spending to build that college. A stink was
raised about membership money doing that and now they are claiming they are
building an office building for H$LDA headquarters and they are only
"renting" the building to the college. Like an office building would be
set up with classroom.
That's it, I know what annoys me the most about them -- they think we are
all stupid!
Lynda
----------
From: Shay Seaborne <s-seaborne@...>
>
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
>
>
> <SNIP> a form for me that starts out by me admitting that I knew I was
> breaking the law.>>
>
> Really? I wanna' see!
>
> <<< But then, who would join H$LDA??>>>
>
> Those, who are unaware of the true situation. I think there are probably
> many members who don't realize the real nature of the organiztion.
> Recently, a mom in my support group said, "I thought they were just a
> nice bunch of lawyers offering legal insurance." AAACCKKK!
>
> -Shay
>
Lynda
Guess who worked to get those church covers made into law . . . H$LDA you
say. You get the gold star. That is what they hope to promote with their
"umbrella" school. Same sneaky backdoor methods they have used else where.
Lynda
----------
From: "Jeff & Diane Gwirtz" <jagwirtz@...>
say. You get the gold star. That is what they hope to promote with their
"umbrella" school. Same sneaky backdoor methods they have used else where.
Lynda
----------
From: "Jeff & Diane Gwirtz" <jagwirtz@...>
>
> > <<< But then, who would join H$LDA??>>>
> >
> I don't know that this is still true, but it used to be that there
> were states that required homeschoolers to join a church cover. In
> turn, these church covers required HSLDA membership. Also, some
> state-wide Christian homeschooling orgs send money to support HSLDA
> out of membership dues. It's quite a monopoly! We've never joined
> and I'm grateful we haven't been forced to.
>
> Diane in KS
>
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
Shay Seaborne
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:24:08 -0800
From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
Subject: Re: Re: HSLDA Paranoia
<SNIP><< I wrote Scott at the time and asked why he would advise anyone
to admit to wrong doing and got back a rather tangled bunch of hooey that
really didn't
address the issue.>>>
Seems to be his style.
<SNIP> now they are claiming they are building an office building for
H$LDA headquarters and they are only "renting" the building to the
college. Like an office building would be set up with classroom.>>>
Yah, what a joke.
<<<That's it, I know what annoys me the most about them -- they think we
are
all stupid!>>>
They sure come across that way frequently.
-Shay
FOLC eclectic homeschool support group http://expage.com/page/folcfolks
VaEclecticHomeschool discussion list
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/VaEclecticHomeschool
Virginia Home Education Association
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~pm6f/vhea.html
National Home Education Network http://www.nhen.org
From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
Subject: Re: Re: HSLDA Paranoia
<SNIP><< I wrote Scott at the time and asked why he would advise anyone
to admit to wrong doing and got back a rather tangled bunch of hooey that
really didn't
address the issue.>>>
Seems to be his style.
<SNIP> now they are claiming they are building an office building for
H$LDA headquarters and they are only "renting" the building to the
college. Like an office building would be set up with classroom.>>>
Yah, what a joke.
<<<That's it, I know what annoys me the most about them -- they think we
are
all stupid!>>>
They sure come across that way frequently.
-Shay
FOLC eclectic homeschool support group http://expage.com/page/folcfolks
VaEclecticHomeschool discussion list
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/VaEclecticHomeschool
Virginia Home Education Association
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~pm6f/vhea.html
National Home Education Network http://www.nhen.org
Jeff & Diane Gwirtz
> Not to try to defend H$LDA or anything, but my understanding was that thisThe state I'm thinking of is Alabama. On another unschooling list,
> was unschooling mythology. First, it would violate the 1st amendment to
> require a church cover and second, the state would hardly want to encourage
> membership in H$LDA since, for all the harm they do to homeschooling, they
> still make life unpleasant for state schools. Can anyone cite a state
> law/regulation that required a cover school, in particular a church
> oriented cover?
>
this was discussed at length. In Alabama, the only allowable reason
for homeschooling was religion and that's how this came about.
I'm not aware of whether they have gotten their laws changed yet or
not. I've lost all my bookmarks and can't
find the site with the state regs. Anybody else have it?
Also, in Kansas, the only state-wide homeschooling org. is a
Christian one called CHECK. My understanding is that part of your
dues when you join this org. go to HSLDA. Homeschoolers aren't
required to belong to this org. so we don't.
Diane in KS
Pete Schult
>From: "Jeff & Diane Gwirtz" <jagwirtz@...>Not to try to defend H$LDA or anything, but my understanding was that this
>
>I don't know that this is still true, but it used to be that there
>were states that required homeschoolers to join a church cover. In
>turn, these church covers required HSLDA membership. Also, some
>state-wide Christian homeschooling orgs send money to support HSLDA
>out of membership dues. It's quite a monopoly! We've never joined
>and I'm grateful we haven't been forced to.
>
>Diane in KS
was unschooling mythology. First, it would violate the 1st amendment to
require a church cover and second, the state would hardly want to encourage
membership in H$LDA since, for all the harm they do to homeschooling, they
still make life unpleasant for state schools. Can anyone cite a state
law/regulation that required a cover school, in particular a church
oriented cover?
--Pete
Pete Schult Househusband
http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/schult/default.html
mailto:schult@...
Lynda
No, this is not a myth. This has nothing to do with 1st amendment rights
as this is not education paid for by tax dollars.
I will get back to you with the states.
Lynda
----------
as this is not education paid for by tax dollars.
I will get back to you with the states.
Lynda
----------
> From: Pete Schult <schult@...>this
>
> Not to try to defend H$LDA or anything, but my understanding was that
> was unschooling mythology. First, it would violate the 1st amendment toencourage
> require a church cover and second, the state would hardly want to
> membership in H$LDA since, for all the harm they do to homeschooling,they
> still make life unpleasant for state schools. Can anyone cite a state
> law/regulation that required a cover school, in particular a church
> oriented cover?
>
> --Pete
>
>
> Pete Schult Househusband
> http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/schult/default.html
> mailto:schult@...
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
Thad Martin
hi,
at first i had no real clue what all the fuss was over this topic. mostly
because my son is only 4 and it isn't an issue but also because we, apparently,
have it great here in texas. homeschooling is considered a private school,
which are not regulated so we have no real 'hoops to jump through'. the law
states: 'The home school must be run in a bona fide manner (not a sham or
subterfuge.)' and is 'considered legitimate if parents used some sort of
curriculum consisting of books, workbooks or other written materials and that
they met "basic education goals" by teaching reading, spelling, grammar,
mathematics and good citizenship. Once that standard is met, the state's
authority ends, although the district court said school officials could ask
home-school parents about curricula and standardized tests.' this discussion
sure makes me think twice about moving. it also makes me very grateful to all
those who have done all the groundwork and gotten us as far along as we are
(not that there isn't more to do). thanks for all this info.
-susan
Lisa Bugg wrote:
at first i had no real clue what all the fuss was over this topic. mostly
because my son is only 4 and it isn't an issue but also because we, apparently,
have it great here in texas. homeschooling is considered a private school,
which are not regulated so we have no real 'hoops to jump through'. the law
states: 'The home school must be run in a bona fide manner (not a sham or
subterfuge.)' and is 'considered legitimate if parents used some sort of
curriculum consisting of books, workbooks or other written materials and that
they met "basic education goals" by teaching reading, spelling, grammar,
mathematics and good citizenship. Once that standard is met, the state's
authority ends, although the district court said school officials could ask
home-school parents about curricula and standardized tests.' this discussion
sure makes me think twice about moving. it also makes me very grateful to all
those who have done all the groundwork and gotten us as far along as we are
(not that there isn't more to do). thanks for all this info.
-susan
Lisa Bugg wrote:
> From: "Lisa Bugg" <LisaBugg@...>
>
> Can anyone cite a state
> > law/regulation that required a cover school, in particular a church
> > oriented cover?
>
> Alabama and Tennessee have church cover school laws on the books now.
> HSLDA pulled a fast one in SC and for a few years homeschoolers were
> required to join a Christian State level "Dept of Homeschooling", where
> HSLDA membership was required. They worked against the first attempt to
> change the law. The second attempt was doing privately and the law changed
> before they knew what was up. Florida has a cover school option and in many
> places much pressure is applied to make people join---the accountability for
> Christians is the issue raised.
>
> What really makes me mad is that in the early 80's HSLDA's advice to
> families were for them to create their own *covering*, as each family could
> be a home church. After a few years they realized where the money would be
> and they changed their advice and began to use scare tactics so that people
> would join the coverings they set up. Another cover school director talked
> with a mom in a very rigid covering school two weeks ago. She's been
> homeschooling for 9 years and she thought all that her school required was
> LAW. When she found out it wasn't she was angry and sad. For 9 years this
> family has been struggling with a special needs child, making him do work
> the covering said was required by law.
>
> One covering school charges $750 a family per year. they have 600 families.
> You do the math.
>
> I could go on, but I'm too frustrated.
>
> Lisa
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
Lisa Bugg
Can anyone cite a state
HSLDA pulled a fast one in SC and for a few years homeschoolers were
required to join a Christian State level "Dept of Homeschooling", where
HSLDA membership was required. They worked against the first attempt to
change the law. The second attempt was doing privately and the law changed
before they knew what was up. Florida has a cover school option and in many
places much pressure is applied to make people join---the accountability for
Christians is the issue raised.
What really makes me mad is that in the early 80's HSLDA's advice to
families were for them to create their own *covering*, as each family could
be a home church. After a few years they realized where the money would be
and they changed their advice and began to use scare tactics so that people
would join the coverings they set up. Another cover school director talked
with a mom in a very rigid covering school two weeks ago. She's been
homeschooling for 9 years and she thought all that her school required was
LAW. When she found out it wasn't she was angry and sad. For 9 years this
family has been struggling with a special needs child, making him do work
the covering said was required by law.
One covering school charges $750 a family per year. they have 600 families.
You do the math.
I could go on, but I'm too frustrated.
Lisa
> law/regulation that required a cover school, in particular a churchAlabama and Tennessee have church cover school laws on the books now.
> oriented cover?
HSLDA pulled a fast one in SC and for a few years homeschoolers were
required to join a Christian State level "Dept of Homeschooling", where
HSLDA membership was required. They worked against the first attempt to
change the law. The second attempt was doing privately and the law changed
before they knew what was up. Florida has a cover school option and in many
places much pressure is applied to make people join---the accountability for
Christians is the issue raised.
What really makes me mad is that in the early 80's HSLDA's advice to
families were for them to create their own *covering*, as each family could
be a home church. After a few years they realized where the money would be
and they changed their advice and began to use scare tactics so that people
would join the coverings they set up. Another cover school director talked
with a mom in a very rigid covering school two weeks ago. She's been
homeschooling for 9 years and she thought all that her school required was
LAW. When she found out it wasn't she was angry and sad. For 9 years this
family has been struggling with a special needs child, making him do work
the covering said was required by law.
One covering school charges $750 a family per year. they have 600 families.
You do the math.
I could go on, but I'm too frustrated.
Lisa
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
at first i had no real clue what all the fuss was over this topic. mostly
you have at least one attractive option.
Nanci K. in Idaho
>because my son is only 4 and it isn't an issue but also because we,apparently,
>have it great here in texas. ... this discussionWe live in Idaho, and it's easier here. So if you did ever want to move,
>sure makes me think twice about moving.
>-susan
you have at least one attractive option.
Nanci K. in Idaho
metta
on 12/1/99 8:50 PM, Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall at tn-k4of5@...
wrote:
options, anyway.)
--
Thea
metta@...
wrote:
> We live in Idaho, and it's easier here. So if you did ever want to move,CA is easy too... we're also a private school state. (That's one of the
> you have at least one attractive option.
options, anyway.)
--
Thea
metta@...
Thad Martin
hi,
thanks, that's good to know because tx is too hot for me and idaho has always
seemed like a place i would like (i've lived in over a dozen states but not
idaho, yet:)
-susan
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall wrote:
thanks, that's good to know because tx is too hot for me and idaho has always
seemed like a place i would like (i've lived in over a dozen states but not
idaho, yet:)
-susan
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall wrote:
> From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
>
> at first i had no real clue what all the fuss was over this topic. mostly
> >because my son is only 4 and it isn't an issue but also because we,
> apparently,
> >have it great here in texas. ... this discussion
> >sure makes me think twice about moving.
> >-susan
>
> We live in Idaho, and it's easier here. So if you did ever want to move,
> you have at least one attractive option.
>
> Nanci K. in Idaho
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com