encouraging "stick-to-it"-iveness vs. forcing
wanderingmommy
How far would you go in encouraging a kid to stick with something
they've started? My 10yo unschooler has been bugging us for the past
year to give him viola lessons (he has a passion for classical
music). Well, we finally found a program we could afford (group
lessons through our local university) and he started about 6 weeks
ago. The first handful of lessons were easy for him and he picked
things up quickly. NOW, however, the stuff is getting a bit more
challenging and he's starting to gripe about practicing.
I'm torn between not wanting to force him to do something he's not
thoroughly enjoying and wishing he would actually stick with it long
enough feel a sense of accomplishment. He has two one-hour lessons a
week and is expected to practice at home at least 5 days/week. I
don't *make* him practice that often; I'm satisfied (and so is he) if
we get in a couple good sessions a week. I've told him that as long
as he feels comfortable with his progress and doesn't get to his
lessons and feel "lost" he can practice at his discretion.
He has not asked to quit (yet), but practice sessions are becoming a
bit of a battlefield. Learning a new skill, however much it's
desired, can be frustrating and it's all too easy to just give up
when things start getting tough. I know the challenges of learning to
play an instrument, but I also know the rewards of sticking with it.
Problem is that I'm having trouble convincing him that the rewards
are worth the frustration!
Any suggestions? Beth
they've started? My 10yo unschooler has been bugging us for the past
year to give him viola lessons (he has a passion for classical
music). Well, we finally found a program we could afford (group
lessons through our local university) and he started about 6 weeks
ago. The first handful of lessons were easy for him and he picked
things up quickly. NOW, however, the stuff is getting a bit more
challenging and he's starting to gripe about practicing.
I'm torn between not wanting to force him to do something he's not
thoroughly enjoying and wishing he would actually stick with it long
enough feel a sense of accomplishment. He has two one-hour lessons a
week and is expected to practice at home at least 5 days/week. I
don't *make* him practice that often; I'm satisfied (and so is he) if
we get in a couple good sessions a week. I've told him that as long
as he feels comfortable with his progress and doesn't get to his
lessons and feel "lost" he can practice at his discretion.
He has not asked to quit (yet), but practice sessions are becoming a
bit of a battlefield. Learning a new skill, however much it's
desired, can be frustrating and it's all too easy to just give up
when things start getting tough. I know the challenges of learning to
play an instrument, but I also know the rewards of sticking with it.
Problem is that I'm having trouble convincing him that the rewards
are worth the frustration!
Any suggestions? Beth
susan marie
We're in somewhat of the same place. What we did was get the girls a
video and a book (encore music - so far, so good). They practice on
their own. One prefers short practices but often, the other longer but
less frequent. I do ask them about it - did you practice? But they go at
their own pace, and do it their own way. They are doing well but I think
getting sometimes bored/frustrated. I'd love to get them involved in
some sort of band, but there isn't one here, and I don't know that there
would be enough homeschoolers to get it to go. There's a youth symphony
orchestra, but the one dd is a year away from being ready, and the other
probably two or three.
Their interest seems to go in spurts. I try to encourage without
pushing, but I do have the same concerns about getting through the tough
part of learning something new. Is it better to encourage, not push or
nag, but let it go when they miss a day or a week or more? (actually,
we don't keep track of how often.)
8 yo dd goes in spurts. 12 yo dd wants to get through level one on her
own, and then get a teacher. But, she is getting frustrated and could
use some help now. Right now she's real busy with community theatre, so
we're going to look at it again in January. The 8 you I just kind of
encourage, but try not to nag.
What do other folks do with music?
peace,
Susan
video and a book (encore music - so far, so good). They practice on
their own. One prefers short practices but often, the other longer but
less frequent. I do ask them about it - did you practice? But they go at
their own pace, and do it their own way. They are doing well but I think
getting sometimes bored/frustrated. I'd love to get them involved in
some sort of band, but there isn't one here, and I don't know that there
would be enough homeschoolers to get it to go. There's a youth symphony
orchestra, but the one dd is a year away from being ready, and the other
probably two or three.
Their interest seems to go in spurts. I try to encourage without
pushing, but I do have the same concerns about getting through the tough
part of learning something new. Is it better to encourage, not push or
nag, but let it go when they miss a day or a week or more? (actually,
we don't keep track of how often.)
8 yo dd goes in spurts. 12 yo dd wants to get through level one on her
own, and then get a teacher. But, she is getting frustrated and could
use some help now. Right now she's real busy with community theatre, so
we're going to look at it again in January. The 8 you I just kind of
encourage, but try not to nag.
What do other folks do with music?
peace,
Susan
On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 03:53 PM, wanderingmommy wrote:
> How far would you go in encouraging a kid to stick with something
> they've started? My 10yo unschooler has been bugging us for the past
> year to give him viola lessons (he has a passion for classical
> music). Well, we finally found a program we could afford (group
> lessons through our local university) and he started about 6 weeks
> ago. The first handful of lessons were easy for him and he picked
> things up quickly. NOW, however, the stuff is getting a bit more
> challenging and he's starting to gripe about practicing.
>
> I'm torn between not wanting to force him to do something he's not
> thoroughly enjoying and wishing he would actually stick with it long
> enough feel a sense of accomplishment. He has two one-hour lessons a
> week and is expected to practice at home at least 5 days/week. I
> don't *make* him practice that often; I'm satisfied (and so is he) if
> we get in a couple good sessions a week. I've told him that as long
> as he feels comfortable with his progress and doesn't get to his
> lessons and feel "lost" he can practice at his discretion.
>
> He has not asked to quit (yet), but practice sessions are becoming a
> bit of a battlefield. Learning a new skill, however much it's
> desired, can be frustrating and it's all too easy to just give up
> when things start getting tough. I know the challenges of learning to
> play an instrument, but I also know the rewards of sticking with it.
> Problem is that I'm having trouble convincing him that the rewards
> are worth the frustration!
>
> Any suggestions? Beth
>
>
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>
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peace,
Susan
"Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which
we arrive at that goal."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
My two, 9ds and 8dd, were playing cello and violin last year, we went through times where they weren't very excited about practicing and I did not force it. Usually when they wanted to be prepared for a lesson they would get down to business. One of our teachers was cool and she just wanted my dd to just have fun, which was great. The other teacher was more like, you practice on the days that you eat, kind-of philosophy. Which didn't work with me.
I basically put the ball in their court, they wanted to take lessons so it was their responsibility to get their practice done. And most of the time they did.
I might ask about it once in a while or if they asked me to remind them, but it wasn't stressful to me.
I really have to let it be their decision with intruments, I love playing piano and violin, so I would really love them to play but if that's not for them, that's OK.
Take Care,
Kelli
susan marie <scribblers2@...> wrote:We're in somewhat of the same place. What we did was get the girls a
video and a book (encore music - so far, so good). They practice on
their own. One prefers short practices but often, the other longer but
less frequent. I do ask them about it - did you practice? But they go at
their own pace, and do it their own way. They are doing well but I think
getting sometimes bored/frustrated. I'd love to get them involved in
some sort of band, but there isn't one here, and I don't know that there
would be enough homeschoolers to get it to go. There's a youth symphony
orchestra, but the one dd is a year away from being ready, and the other
probably two or three.
Their interest seems to go in spurts. I try to encourage without
pushing, but I do have the same concerns about getting through the tough
part of learning something new. Is it better to encourage, not push or
nag, but let it go when they miss a day or a week or more? (actually,
we don't keep track of how often.)
8 yo dd goes in spurts. 12 yo dd wants to get through level one on her
own, and then get a teacher. But, she is getting frustrated and could
use some help now. Right now she's real busy with community theatre, so
we're going to look at it again in January. The 8 you I just kind of
encourage, but try not to nag.
What do other folks do with music?
peace,
Susan
I basically put the ball in their court, they wanted to take lessons so it was their responsibility to get their practice done. And most of the time they did.
I might ask about it once in a while or if they asked me to remind them, but it wasn't stressful to me.
I really have to let it be their decision with intruments, I love playing piano and violin, so I would really love them to play but if that's not for them, that's OK.
Take Care,
Kelli
susan marie <scribblers2@...> wrote:We're in somewhat of the same place. What we did was get the girls a
video and a book (encore music - so far, so good). They practice on
their own. One prefers short practices but often, the other longer but
less frequent. I do ask them about it - did you practice? But they go at
their own pace, and do it their own way. They are doing well but I think
getting sometimes bored/frustrated. I'd love to get them involved in
some sort of band, but there isn't one here, and I don't know that there
would be enough homeschoolers to get it to go. There's a youth symphony
orchestra, but the one dd is a year away from being ready, and the other
probably two or three.
Their interest seems to go in spurts. I try to encourage without
pushing, but I do have the same concerns about getting through the tough
part of learning something new. Is it better to encourage, not push or
nag, but let it go when they miss a day or a week or more? (actually,
we don't keep track of how often.)
8 yo dd goes in spurts. 12 yo dd wants to get through level one on her
own, and then get a teacher. But, she is getting frustrated and could
use some help now. Right now she's real busy with community theatre, so
we're going to look at it again in January. The 8 you I just kind of
encourage, but try not to nag.
What do other folks do with music?
peace,
Susan
On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 03:53 PM, wanderingmommy wrote:
> How far would you go in encouraging a kid to stick with something
> they've started? My 10yo unschooler has been bugging us for the past
> year to give him viola lessons (he has a passion for classical
> music). Well, we finally found a program we could afford (group
> lessons through our local university) and he started about 6 weeks
> ago. The first handful of lessons were easy for him and he picked
> things up quickly. NOW, however, the stuff is getting a bit more
> challenging and he's starting to gripe about practicing.
>
> I'm torn between not wanting to force him to do something he's not
> thoroughly enjoying and wishing he would actually stick with it long
> enough feel a sense of accomplishment. He has two one-hour lessons a
> week and is expected to practice at home at least 5 days/week. I
> don't *make* him practice that often; I'm satisfied (and so is he) if
> we get in a couple good sessions a week. I've told him that as long
> as he feels comfortable with his progress and doesn't get to his
> lessons and feel "lost" he can practice at his discretion.
>
> He has not asked to quit (yet), but practice sessions are becoming a
> bit of a battlefield. Learning a new skill, however much it's
> desired, can be frustrating and it's all too easy to just give up
> when things start getting tough. I know the challenges of learning to
> play an instrument, but I also know the rewards of sticking with it.
> Problem is that I'm having trouble convincing him that the rewards
> are worth the frustration!
>
> Any suggestions? Beth
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the
> list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
> an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
peace,
Susan
"Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which
we arrive at that goal."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Holly had a fiddle lesson yesterday. She had practiced six of seven days,
and marked her chart carefully, and the teacher didn't ask to see it. It
didn't bother Holly. She felt like she'd had a good lesson.
I remember when I was teaching and when I was in school--if kids did
something and it "didn't count," or was just glanced at instead of carefully
checked, some of them would be nearly furious, from having done it for
nothing.
Holly doesn't know to do that. <g> GOOD!
Sandra
and marked her chart carefully, and the teacher didn't ask to see it. It
didn't bother Holly. She felt like she'd had a good lesson.
I remember when I was teaching and when I was in school--if kids did
something and it "didn't count," or was just glanced at instead of carefully
checked, some of them would be nearly furious, from having done it for
nothing.
Holly doesn't know to do that. <g> GOOD!
Sandra
Pam Sorooshian
>>He has not asked to quit (yet), but practice sessions are becoming abit of a battlefield. Learning a new skill, however much it's
desired, can be frustrating and it's all too easy to just give up
when things start getting tough. I know the challenges of learning to
play an instrument, but I also know the rewards of sticking with it.
Problem is that I'm having trouble convincing him that the rewards
are worth the frustration!
Any suggestions? Beth
<<
I'd let him keep going even if he decides not to practice.
I played cello throughout most of my childhood and nobody ever made me
practice. I had months and months where I never practiced at all - just
went to lessons. I had other months and months when I practiced 7 hours a
day, day after day. I do the same thing now - I get a lot of enjoyment out
of playing my cello, but I just do it when I feel like it. I'm not all that
accomplished - but I really enjoy it and it gave me a much greater ability
to appreciate music on a different level than a nonmusician does (I think).
Forcing unhappy practice sessions risks him losing all enjoyment, imo.
-pam
Pam Sorooshian
National Home Education Network
www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> I played cello throughout most of my childhood and nobody ever made methat
> practice. I had months and months where I never practiced at all - just
> went to lessons. I had other months and months when I practiced 7 hours a
> day, day after day. I do the same thing now - I get a lot of enjoyment out
> of playing my cello, but I just do it when I feel like it. I'm not all
> accomplished - but I really enjoy it and it gave me a much greater abilitythink).
> to appreciate music on a different level than a nonmusician does (I
So what do you play, when you do play? Do you play in any groups? I find
with both cello and horn that the only time I practice is when I've got
something coming up, a chamber group or orchestra rehearsal or whatever.
Maybe it's because there's very little music written for either instrument
*alone*. I could be working on solo accompanied music. I have a friend who
plays piano really well. But I just don't.
Tia
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/02 11:09:34 AM, leschke@... writes:
<< Maybe it's because there's very little music written for either instrument
*alone*. I could be working on solo accompanied music. I have a friend who
plays piano really well. But I just don't. >>
Couldn't you just play from any old music that's in range? Just tunes?
Dance tunes? Melodies of stuff your kids like from kid-books? Play along
with baroque stuff you have the music for? Or Renaissance stuff with viol da
gamba parts? The recorder sonatas which have those WONDERFUL basso continuo
parts?
Sandra
<< Maybe it's because there's very little music written for either instrument
*alone*. I could be working on solo accompanied music. I have a friend who
plays piano really well. But I just don't. >>
Couldn't you just play from any old music that's in range? Just tunes?
Dance tunes? Melodies of stuff your kids like from kid-books? Play along
with baroque stuff you have the music for? Or Renaissance stuff with viol da
gamba parts? The recorder sonatas which have those WONDERFUL basso continuo
parts?
Sandra
Pam Sorooshian
I don't "practice" at all....I just pick up my cello and fool with it. I
play the melody line out of broadway musical books that my kids have left
around, a lot <G>. I play from solo books. I do a lot of just improvising -
that's mostly what I do. It is just for me - I don't play with a group. I
did play with a homeschooled kids' orchestra for a couple of years - just
very beginning stuff, that was fun. I played some lines, solo, for a
Shakespeare company a couple of summers ago - it was just simple simple stuff.
I also have a Native American flute - I just improvise on that, too. I do
play that for people sometimes, when we're camping -- sometimes after
everybody goes off to their tents to go to sleep I sit out by the campfire
a bit longer and play while they fall asleep. Used to work WONDERS in
getting my girl scouts to fall asleep <BEG>.
We have a piano, an electronic keyboard, a mandolin, a penny whistle, a
couple of recorders, an autoharp, my cello, a couple of violins, bongo
drums, a guitar and probably other instruments. Most are old and crummy --
and none of us are accomplished. Roya plays basic piano and guitar chords -
so do I. Roxana is learning to play piano - it has taken her a long time
since she never wanted lessons, but she's learning and now she's taking
piano class at the community college. Rosie plays too - I'd call her an
advanced beginner.
They/we all sing - all the time.
Right now - Roxana is off working - helping with wardrobe at a musical
show. Roya is singing something very loudly - she's in the bathroom <G>.
Rosie is watching the Jesus Christ Superstar movie - we went and saw the
new US Tour production last week - with the ORIGINAL Judas (Carl Anderson)
who was awesome! Rox and I went to the opera - saw a lovely production of
La Boheme last week too. On Sunday we're going to see RENT. Rosie went
last night to see a local musical production of Pinocchio which one of her
best friends is in - we're all going to see it next week.
And I'd be listening to music too, except I'm listening to the Harry Potter
audiotapes --- the British version read by Stephen Frye. Since my kids
won't hear of ANY of us seeing the new movie until we can all go together -
don't know when that will happen, we're all too busy.
Pam Sorooshian
National Home Education Network
www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling
play the melody line out of broadway musical books that my kids have left
around, a lot <G>. I play from solo books. I do a lot of just improvising -
that's mostly what I do. It is just for me - I don't play with a group. I
did play with a homeschooled kids' orchestra for a couple of years - just
very beginning stuff, that was fun. I played some lines, solo, for a
Shakespeare company a couple of summers ago - it was just simple simple stuff.
I also have a Native American flute - I just improvise on that, too. I do
play that for people sometimes, when we're camping -- sometimes after
everybody goes off to their tents to go to sleep I sit out by the campfire
a bit longer and play while they fall asleep. Used to work WONDERS in
getting my girl scouts to fall asleep <BEG>.
We have a piano, an electronic keyboard, a mandolin, a penny whistle, a
couple of recorders, an autoharp, my cello, a couple of violins, bongo
drums, a guitar and probably other instruments. Most are old and crummy --
and none of us are accomplished. Roya plays basic piano and guitar chords -
so do I. Roxana is learning to play piano - it has taken her a long time
since she never wanted lessons, but she's learning and now she's taking
piano class at the community college. Rosie plays too - I'd call her an
advanced beginner.
They/we all sing - all the time.
Right now - Roxana is off working - helping with wardrobe at a musical
show. Roya is singing something very loudly - she's in the bathroom <G>.
Rosie is watching the Jesus Christ Superstar movie - we went and saw the
new US Tour production last week - with the ORIGINAL Judas (Carl Anderson)
who was awesome! Rox and I went to the opera - saw a lovely production of
La Boheme last week too. On Sunday we're going to see RENT. Rosie went
last night to see a local musical production of Pinocchio which one of her
best friends is in - we're all going to see it next week.
And I'd be listening to music too, except I'm listening to the Harry Potter
audiotapes --- the British version read by Stephen Frye. Since my kids
won't hear of ANY of us seeing the new movie until we can all go together -
don't know when that will happen, we're all too busy.
Pam Sorooshian
National Home Education Network
www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling