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In a message dated 11/8/02 10:01:16 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:

<< Well see...it's all those "thee's" and "thou's" that seem stuffy to me.
The
whole way of talking at that time. >>

Well here's something that most people nowadays probably don't know.

Lots of European languages (Romance/Latin-based) have both formal and
familiar second-person pronouns (like usted and tu for Spanish, the first
used in instances when you are outranked by the person to whom you're
speaking--you use that for bosses, teachers, the president, your grandmother,
and the other for your buddies, your kids, your dog),

In English we don't. We say "you" to everyone.

But until just lately, 300 years or less, English DID have two different
forms of address.

For bosses, teachers, the president, they used "you."

For your buddies, your kids, your dog, and GOD, you used "thee."

In Spanish, French, Italian, etc., God is addressed in the familiar. And
that would be one thing that makes it easier, probably for Catholics to feel G
od is close and right there, because they're addressing him as a friend.

And for whatever combination of reasons (ignorance being a big one), people
here think "thee" and "thou" sound BIG AND SCARY becaus we call God that.

And so there's a danger for Americans who haven't studied any history of
English to be writing little plays or scripts and have someone address a
higher personage as "thee," thinking it's respectful, when it REALLY truly
isn't.

Verbs weren't so much harder:

I shall
you will/thou wilt
he/she/it will...

I am
you are / thou art
he/she/it is

The possessives are not so hard either. "Thy" and "thine" work like "your"
and "yours" do.

Is this your dog? That dog is yours. He's yours.
Is this thy dog? That dog is thine! He's thine.

Only... like a dog and an elephant, when it's before the noun you might need
the "n" so
thy dog and thine elephant are both thine.

Sandra

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In a message dated 11/8/2002 2:18:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Lots of European languages (Romance/Latin-based) have both formal and
> familiar second-person pronouns (like usted and tu for Spanish, the first
> used in instances when you are outranked by the person to whom you're
> speaking--you use that for bosses, teachers, the president, your
> grandmother,
> and the other for your buddies, your kids, your dog),


German does, too. "Du" is familiar. "Sie" is formal.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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In a message dated 11/8/02 1:16:02 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:

<<
German does, too. "Du" is familiar. "Sie" is formal. >>

And I'm guessing God is "Du"?

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In a message dated 11/8/2002 3:42:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> And I'm guessing God is "Du"?
>
Didn't read the German bible. Didn't go to any German church services. Don't
know.

Brenda?

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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In a message dated 11/8/02 1:18:51 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> s this your dog? That dog is yours. He's yours.
> Is this thy dog? That dog is thine! He's thine.
>
My father is from Yorkshire, in the North of England. He was raised speaking
this way, full of thees and thous, hither and yon. Oh, maybe someone can
remember better than me but it's something like there is here (or another
word), meaning right in front of you or near you, hither meaning more like
across the street and then yon which is the rest of the world. He's very
funny about his rememberences of the language sometimes.

My mother, on the other hand, was raised in London and never spoke that way.
She had real trouble with the dialect and generally turned her nose up at it.
She was also raised middle class whereas my father's parents were working
class - his mother was in service and his father was a mechanic. They are
both 75.

And yes, Thee for God. A very familiar sort of thing. My parents were both
raised in the Church of England but after the war my mother's mother turned
to Pentacostal. My father, the unreligious physicist, says the major
difference was that her family no longer had any comfortable furniture except
in their bomb shelter. He and his father in law would retreat back there to
smoke pipes....

Thanks for bringing up the linguistic memories.

Elizabeth

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In a message dated 11/8/02 8:24:19 PM, ejcrewe@... writes:

<< Oh, maybe someone can
remember better than me but it's something like there is here (or another
word), meaning right in front of you or near you, hither meaning more like
across the street and then yon which is the rest of the world. >>

hither, thither and yon?

But there's "nigh," too.

Sandra

Shyrley

On 9 Nov 02, at 9:45, SandraDodd@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 11/8/02 8:24:19 PM, ejcrewe@... writes:
>
> << Oh, maybe someone can
> remember better than me but it's something like there is here (or
> another word), meaning right in front of you or near you, hither
> meaning more like across the street and then yon which is the rest of
> the world. >>
>
> hither, thither and yon?
>
> But there's "nigh," too.
>
> Sandra


We still use those words, especially in the north and the west. I
don't use them here, in fact, I've changed my whole way of
speaking for the US, cos I wont be understand.

Shyrley


"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

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> hither, thither and yon?
>
> But there's "nigh," too.
>
> Sandra

That's right! i knew i should have called my father before writing. But he
hates to wear hearing aids and the conversation would have been more like one
of those cellular commercials...

This conversation reminds me that I really need to write some of his stories
down before it's too late.

Elizabeth