Stephanie Elms

For things to seem like chaos when you start adjusting to a complete unschooling lifestyle?
Not continual chaos...just more then usual chaos with glimpses of hope thrown in? It seems like
all our routines are up in the air and I am finding that I am having a harder time
adjusting myself to then I thought I would. I have always been a very relaxed mom
especially when compared to my mom and to most of my friends and it is throwing me
to really look at myself and seeing how much I really do control my kids. And now
seeing their reactions (especially Jason's) as I try to change this is hard. Realizing
that they did feel controlled.

I can see how giving up control will make things better all around. I honestly thought that
I would have an easier time adjusting to this. The funny thing is that I have found
giving up the "schooling" mindset the easiest! Probably because we never really started
school. It is giving up the food controls and other controls that I implemented in their
lives that seem to be the most difficult. I feel like right now the pendulum is over
correcting and I am hoping that we will be able to get into balance soon.

There are a couple of things that I read on unschooling.com that have definitely improved
how I interact with my kids...one is coming from an attitude of helping the boys get what
they need/want rather then being the one to stand in their way. I have been pleasantly
surprised how just this change in thought has helped me change the way that I deal with
things. If Kyle was watching tv and Jason wanted to watch something, I used to say, well
it is his turn you have to wait. Now I say, let's go ask him. I try to help them talk it
out a bit and if Kyle's answer is still no, I try to find something to do with Jason. Just
the fact that I tried seems to go a long way. And sometimes Kyle says yes! I have noticed
that they are both doing much better with sharing the tv even without me getting involved.

The other thing that I have been trying to do is to let Jason "shine" in my eyes. He really
is such a wonderful little boy. I think the hardest thing for me to realize is that I tend
to correct and criticize more then I used to think I did. It gets worse when I get tired
or frustrated, so unfortunately now is not my best time...Kyle (2.5) is giving up his
naps which makes for a very cranky baby in the evening and all 4 of us are coming down
with colds which means that Kyle is up a lot at night. And since he decided that he had
to sleep with his brother several months ago (instead of with us) that means that I get
to haul my butt upstairs in the middle of the night to get him and bring him down with
us. Then he is still up several times for the rest of the night. Which means that I am
more cranky then normal. Oh yeah and I am also PMSing...not a great combination. Any
suggestions for seeing the good in your 5 yo when he has just hit his brother right after
you told him to stop it? I know that if I can get myself past the behavior and see him
as the great kid he is it will help to stop the behavior.

OK. I guess that I just had to whine a little...and I am hoping that someone will say that
yes it is normal for the mom to go through an adjustment period and that things will
settle down again. I just feel like I need to be so *on* for my kids especially now since
I am really looking at the way that I interact with them. And it can be exhausting, especially
when I am exhausted...it does get easier doesn't it?

And to those of you who have been posting about wishing that they had a toddler again, keep
them coming! It really has helped remind me to put things in perspective. I know that this
will pass, but it sure helps to be reminded that I will miss this age...and I know that I
will, but it is still exhausting!

Stephanie E.

[email protected]

*****It is normal for the mom to go through an adjustment period
and things will settle down
again.*****

<< The funny thing is that I have found
giving up the "schooling" mindset the easiest! Probably because we never
really started
school. It is giving up the food controls and other controls that I
implemented in their
lives that seem to be the most difficult. I feel like right now the pendulum
is over
correcting and I am hoping that we will be able to get into balance soon. >>

I think it's normal all the way around. And the biggest adjustment is always
in the minds of the parents.

Kids might frolic and gorge or hole up and hold their breaths waiting for you
to say "PSYCH! not really."

-=-There are a couple of things that I read on unschooling.com that have
definitely improved
how I interact with my kids...one is coming from an attitude of helping the
boys get what
they need/want rather then being the one to stand in their way. -=-

Attachment parenting folks say you're your child's partner, not his adversary.

-=-If Kyle was watching tv and Jason wanted to watch something, I used to
say, well
it is his turn you have to wait. Now I say, let's go ask him. I try to help
them talk it
out a bit and if Kyle's answer is still no, I try to find something to do
with Jason. -=-

Color TVs are REALLY cheap these days, and VCRs too!

-=-And since he decided that he had
to sleep with his brother several months ago (instead of with us) that means
that I get
to haul my butt upstairs in the middle of the night to get him and bring him
down with
us. Then he is still up several times for the rest of the night. -=-

Is there room for you to sleep in their room? Can you all camp in the den?

Sandra, who misses having toddlers.

Betsy

**The other thing that I have been trying to do is to let Jason "shine"
in my eyes. He really is such a wonderful little boy. I think the
hardest thing for me to realize is that I tend to correct and criticize
more then I used to think I did.**


I think this is a great insight.

It complements Sandra's idea of smelling your kids' heads to make you
feel more maternal.

Betsy

Stephanie Elms

> **The other thing that I have been trying to do is to let
> Jason "shine"
> in my eyes. He really is such a wonderful little boy. I think the
> hardest thing for me to realize is that I tend to correct and
> criticize
> more then I used to think I did.**
>
>
> I think this is a great insight.
>

I definitely can't take credit for this one...I read it in one of Anne O.'s
posts on unschooling.com (gosh I love reading her stuff!). It really spoke
to me and helped me open my eyes.

Jason is definitely loved and he knows that I think that he is wonderful,
but when he does something that really frustrates me, I tend to go into
teacher mode and scold him or worse, yell at him. I realized the other day
that is exactly what my mom would do...I was a terrific daughter until I
did something that she did not like and then it was like all the good things
did not count anymore and I was an ungrateful child. It took until I was in
college (after she tried to kill herself) to realize that I could never keep
her completely happy and that was not a fair thing to place on a daughter.
She has gotten much better about this over the past several years (actually
since she has found god). But I think that I run the tapes of my mom in my
head when dealing with Jason. Something I am actively trying to change.

I have been trying to remind myself that Jason *is* a good kid and does not
need to be *taught* to be a good kid. He picks up so much more through modeling
then he does through any lecture that I could give him. It is hard to break
habits though, especially when they come from how I was raised.

Stephanie E.

Betsy

**Jason is definitely loved and he knows that I think that he is wonderful,
but when he does something that really frustrates me, I tend to go into
teacher mode and scold him or worse, yell at him.**

I like to claim that I don't punish my child, but I do "lecture"
sometimes and the lectures may be so darned annoying that they really do
count as punishment.

Betsy

Dalene and Andy

>>I definitely can't take credit for this one...I read it in one of Anne O.'s
posts on unschooling.com (gosh I love reading her stuff!). It really spoke
to me and helped me open my eyes.

Just wondering which BB you read at unschooling.com?? My time is limited and I can't browse them all.

Dalene


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stephanie Elms

> Just wondering which BB you read at unschooling.com?? My time
> is limited and I can't browse them all.


Well, at first, I checked out Conversations With Sandra Dodd. Browsed through
the conversations until something caught my eye. Then I found the search feature
(at the bottom) and started searching for subjects like TV limits and food limits.
This was great as it pulled lots of old conversations specifically on the topics
that I was interested (plus it was interesting to see old posts from regulars
here...like Ren arguing *for* tv limits. ;o) Makes me feel better and gives me
hope!) Now I usually check in about once a day, so I just go to the bottom
and search for new messages in the last day or so. There are usually about
30-40 new messages, but 15-20 of those are in the teens/kids folders. It is
pretty manageable this way. I also tend to look for specific people or look for
a conversation with lots of activity if I am really pressed for time. Anne O.
is one of my favorites...she has such a peace about her in her posts...something
that I am striving for in my parenting.

The search feature is really great though because you don't have to wait for
someone to start a specific topic (or you don't have to start it yourself!).

Hope that this helps...

Stephanie E.

Stephanie Elms

>
> I think it's normal all the way around. And the biggest
> adjustment is always
> in the minds of the parents.
>
> Kids might frolic and gorge or hole up and hold their breaths
> waiting for you
> to say "PSYCH! not really."

Yeah, we actually had a talk about this tonight. He was saying how he wished
he was a grown-up. When I asked him why, he said so that people would not try
to control him so much. It was really the first time he has actually talked about
this in this way. I asked him how I controlled him, he said by saying what he could
not eat. When I pointed out that I had not been doing this lately, he agreed but
said that it had not been that long. So to me, these past 3 weeks have seemed like
ages, but to him it has barely been any time. LOL! It turned out to be a really
great talk....

>
> Attachment parenting folks say you're your child's partner,
> not his adversary.

For some reason I found that it was easier to be his partner when he was little.
Or maybe the issues were more cut and dry for me. The interesting thing is that
I have some wonderful attachment parenting friends who think that I am a little
nuts for letting go of the restrictions that I have. I had an interesting
discussion on an ap email list I have been on for over 3 years...basically the
majority of the AP moms there felt that trusting your child to know how often
to nurse or when to move into their own bed was different then trusting them
to know what to eat (not that they advocated forcing kids to eat, but rather
just limit access to junk food) or how much tv to watch. They considered one
developmental and the latter more of a learned response. It seems to me that
many AP moms get more mainstream in their practices as their kids got older.
*Much* more attached and sensitive to their child's point of view then most
parents I know, but still feeling it necessary to control certain aspects of
their children's lives.


> -=-If Kyle was watching tv and Jason wanted to watch
> something, I used to
> say, well
> it is his turn you have to wait. Now I say, let's go ask him.
> I try to help
> them talk it
> out a bit and if Kyle's answer is still no, I try to find
> something to do
> with Jason. -=-
>
> Color TVs are REALLY cheap these days, and VCRs too!

Yeah...I have been thinking about this lately. We do have another tv back in
the bedroom. Our problem is that we are completely spoiled by TIVO. The kids
have their favorite shows taped and available whenever they want them. And it
makes a vcr *incredibly* clunky to deal with. The other problem is that neither
kid would want to watch tv alone back in the bedroom. Our family room is open
to the kitchen so even if I am not watching tv with them, I am on the computer
or in the kitchen right near by.

I have just realized what I want to do with the living room...it is currently
a depository for furniture with no home as well as many of the kids toys and
train table etc. I think that I will turn it into a second family room. Set
it up with a second tv, comfy couches etc. We have no basement, so I think that
this room will do nicely to give us another place to hang out and it is not
too far away from the family room and kitchen. Have to think about the specifics
and check out the classifieds I think....

Luckily both boys actually like a lot of the same shows, Full Metal Challenge,
Junkyard Wars, Between the Lions. I have even caught Jason turning on Blues
Clues when Kyle was not around. :o) I have been pretty impressed with how
well they have been sharing the tv. The computer was another issue, because
I did not feel comfortable telling one when to get off, but Jeff found an
old unused laptop at work so that has been working out great. :o)


> -=-And since he decided that he had
> to sleep with his brother several months ago (instead of with
> us) that means
> that I get
> to haul my butt upstairs in the middle of the night to get
> him and bring him
> down with
> us. Then he is still up several times for the rest of the night. -=-
>
> Is there room for you to sleep in their room? Can you all
> camp in the den?

Actually after I sent the message I had one of those DUH moments...last night
I just put Kyle in our bed after he fell asleep (we rock him to sleep) instead
of Jason's so at least I did not have to get out of bed. Kyle was still up a lot
but at least I did not have to get cold!


> Sandra, who misses having toddlers.

Stephanie E. (who knows that she will eventually miss having one too and appreciates
the reminders!)

Pam Sorooshian

For things to seem like chaos when you start adjusting to a complete
unschooling lifestyle?<<

Yes. It takes a while to get into a family rhythm AND that rhythm can be
disturbed by life's events and then you have to get back into it all over
again. And, eventually, you won't see it as so much of a static situation,
but as an ever-progressing and ever-changing and developing life and some
of what now feels chaotic will just feel like regular "background" to that
rich life.


Pam Sorooshian
National Home Education Network
www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

susan marie

We have lots of tv's .. they are really cheap. We have a tv and vcr in
each bedroom, a big tv w/ vcr and dvd in the living room, a little tv
(for the car - we recently did a 1500 mile trip, each way.. got the tv
for the ride home) with built in vcr which is now in the family room for
watching tapes, and hubby has another one in his office. But the kids
don't watch tv all day long, and we tape all of the shows we watch. We
sometimes won't actually watch a show until months after it aired. We
have homeschooling friends who greatly restrict tv watching, and if the
tv is on when these kids come over, they don't want to do anything else,
whereas my kids see the tv as one more option but it isn't a magnet for
them. The girls will often get in discussions about whether a show is
worthwhile or not and why, and have sometimes decided to stop watching a
show because of one of these discussions. They're more likely to be up
late reading than watching tv.

It was harder for me to let go of the food thing, but I am doing my
best. When they come ask if they can have something, I tell them they
know about healthy eating, decide for themselves. Hubby likes to check
up on their eating, so this may take a while, but he does leave them
alone once he sees that they are doing stuff on their own. He comes from
a very controlling family, so it's a little tough for him to let go
sometimes, but he is great with the kids, and since nearly everytime he
asks them "did you have fruit today" or something like that, and the
answer is always "yes", he doesn't ask nearly as often. (who's teaching
who? :-) My kids are always amazed when they go over a friend's house
and people don't have any fresh fruit in the house. If we don't have at
least three or four different kinds, it's time to go shopping.

Guess I'm rambling. When I step back and watch, and stay out of the way,
I'm always, always amazed at how much kids really do "get it" and how
often adults (not just parents) can get in the way of what they want to
learn, do, accomplish.

peace,
Susan


On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 11:27 PM, Stephanie Elms wrote:
> >
> > Color TVs are REALLY cheap these days, and VCRs too!
>
> Yeah...I have been thinking about this lately. We do have another tv
> back in
> the bedroom. Our problem is that we are completely spoiled by TIVO. The
> kids
> have their favorite shows taped and available whenever they want them.
> And it
> makes a vcr *incredibly* clunky to deal with. The other problem is that
> neither
> kid would want to watch tv alone  back in the bedroom. Our family room
> is open
> to the kitchen so even if I am not watching tv with them, I am on the
> computer
> or in the kitchen right near by.
>
> I have just realized what I want to do with the living room...it is
> currently
> a depository for furniture with no home as well as many of the kids
> toys and
> train table etc. I think that I will turn it into a second family room.
> Set
> it up with a second tv, comfy couches etc. We have no basement, so I
> think that
> this room will do nicely to give us another place to hang out and it is
> not
> too far away from the family room and kitchen. Have to think about the
> specifics
> and check out the classifieds I think....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/8/2002 5:00:17 PM Central Standard Time,
stephanie.elms@... writes:

> Now I usually check in about once a day, so I just go to the bottom
> and search for new messages in the last day or so.

After you pull up the new messages, you can book mark that page, and next
time you use that bookmark it will only contain messages since your last
visit.

I haven't been out there in ages...I'm afraid it would pull up EVERYTHING.
:)

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stephanie Elms

> > Now I usually check in about once a day, so I just go to the bottom
> > and search for new messages in the last day or so.
>
> After you pull up the new messages, you can book mark that
> page, and next
> time you use that bookmark it will only contain messages
> since your last
> visit.

Really?! Way cool! Thanks for the tip. :o)

Stephanie E.

>