Fundamentalist Christians
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
If I am following all these qualifications of what it means to be
a fundamentalist christian, insofar as the term is used here, you
must have these characteristics:
- you believe in corporal punishment of children as a virtue
- you believe that the wife should in all things submit to the
husband
- you believe that every one who disagrees with your religious
views will go to Hell
- you believe that your church pastor is always right
- you believe you have a duty to convert all who disagree
- you believe that your preferred translation of the Bible if the
literal word of God in every respect, without allowance for
parable or poetry
Have I missed anything? Must all or some number be present?
Have I misstated any?
The rationalization of what appears to be semi regular Christian
bashing here is that it is only "those" Christians, the
fundamentalists christians, who are the target, so it matters to
me to understand what people mean by the term.
a fundamentalist christian, insofar as the term is used here, you
must have these characteristics:
- you believe in corporal punishment of children as a virtue
- you believe that the wife should in all things submit to the
husband
- you believe that every one who disagrees with your religious
views will go to Hell
- you believe that your church pastor is always right
- you believe you have a duty to convert all who disagree
- you believe that your preferred translation of the Bible if the
literal word of God in every respect, without allowance for
parable or poetry
Have I missed anything? Must all or some number be present?
Have I misstated any?
The rationalization of what appears to be semi regular Christian
bashing here is that it is only "those" Christians, the
fundamentalists christians, who are the target, so it matters to
me to understand what people mean by the term.
susan marie
I'm on a couple of catholic lists and bible discussion lists, and on
those lists, there are complaints that the term "christian" has come to
mean "fundamentalist christian" rather than "follower of christ".
While a fundamentalist can be a follower of christ, a follower of christ
is by no means always a fundamentalist. Talk to a catholic, orthodox,
gnostic, liberal protestant christian -- all quite different from a
fundamentalist christian.
Sometimes, a word can mean one thing to one person, and something
entirely different to someone else, and hence the misunderstandings.
Roman Catholics will of course tell you that they are Christians, but I
have met fundamentalists and read some fundamentalist writings that call
Roman Catholics many things.. such as pagan and satanist.. but say they
are not Chrisitans.
Personally, I don't like any bashing, no matter how strongly I disagree.
But keep in mind, certain segments of fundamentalist christians do an
awful lot of bashing to others. It's hard to show respect to someone who
comes up to your kids and tells them that they are going to hell.
hth,
s.
btw, I thought your qualifications were pretty close to my understanding
of what a fundamentalist christian is. and I don't think folks should
say "christian" when they mean "fundamentalist christian" and even then,
there are some distinctions.
On Thursday, November 7, 2002, at 08:52 PM, Nora or Devereaux Cannon
wrote:
Susan
"Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which
we arrive at that goal."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
those lists, there are complaints that the term "christian" has come to
mean "fundamentalist christian" rather than "follower of christ".
While a fundamentalist can be a follower of christ, a follower of christ
is by no means always a fundamentalist. Talk to a catholic, orthodox,
gnostic, liberal protestant christian -- all quite different from a
fundamentalist christian.
Sometimes, a word can mean one thing to one person, and something
entirely different to someone else, and hence the misunderstandings.
Roman Catholics will of course tell you that they are Christians, but I
have met fundamentalists and read some fundamentalist writings that call
Roman Catholics many things.. such as pagan and satanist.. but say they
are not Chrisitans.
Personally, I don't like any bashing, no matter how strongly I disagree.
But keep in mind, certain segments of fundamentalist christians do an
awful lot of bashing to others. It's hard to show respect to someone who
comes up to your kids and tells them that they are going to hell.
hth,
s.
btw, I thought your qualifications were pretty close to my understanding
of what a fundamentalist christian is. and I don't think folks should
say "christian" when they mean "fundamentalist christian" and even then,
there are some distinctions.
On Thursday, November 7, 2002, at 08:52 PM, Nora or Devereaux Cannon
wrote:
> If I am following all these qualifications of what it means to bepeace,
> a fundamentalist christian, insofar as the term is used here, you
> must have these characteristics:
>
> - you believe in corporal punishment of children as a virtue
> - you believe that the wife should in all things submit to the
> husband
> - you believe that every one who disagrees with your religious
> views will go to Hell
> - you believe that your church pastor is always right
> - you believe you have a duty to convert all who disagree
> - you believe that your preferred translation of the Bible if the
> literal word of God in every respect, without allowance for
> parable or poetry
>
> Have I missed anything? Must all or some number be present?
> Have I misstated any?
>
> The rationalization of what appears to be semi regular Christian
> bashing here is that it is only "those" Christians, the
> fundamentalists christians, who are the target, so it matters to
> me to understand what people mean by the term.
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the
> list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
> an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Susan
"Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which
we arrive at that goal."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jwoolfolk
>>>>Personally, I don't like any bashing, no matter how strongly I disagree.But keep in mind, certain segments of fundamentalist christians do an
awful lot of bashing to others. It's hard to show respect to someone who
comes up to your kids and tells them that they are going to hell.<<<<<
Or who think that because you are Catholic your not "really" a Chrisitan....doen't matter that for the most part all "Christians" were Catholic for the 1st 1500 years. OR the "even though your Catholic, I know your a Christian"...as if!
Julie W in AR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> - you believe in corporal punishment of children as a virtueOdd that these were the "opposites" :
> - you believe that the wife should in all things submit to the
> husband
> - you believe that every one who disagrees with your religious
> views will go to Hell
> - you believe that your church pastor is always right
> - you believe you have a duty to convert all who disagree
> - you believe that your preferred translation of the Bible if the
> literal word of God in every respect, without allowance for
> parable or poetry
- you believe vile acts of crime are ok and we should feel criminal's
pain
- you believe that the wife should not submit to the husband whatsoever
- you believe that right and wrong are grey areas and there is no Hell
- you believe that your church pastor is never right
- you believe you have a duty enforce "if it feels good do it" philosophy
- you believe that there is no accurate translation of the Bible and it
what it says anyway is just a myth...but its a pretty good book like
Grapes of Wrath or the Koran
-I believe that acts of violence against CHILDREN are NOT Ok, and I DO feel
their pain.
-I believe the wife should not submit to the husband whatsoever; nor he, her.
-I believe that right and wrong ARE often grey areas---and there is CERTAINLY
no hell.
-I believe NO church pastor.
-I believe if it feels good, do it. Yes.
-I believe that the bible is just a collection of myths and parables. Not
even a "pretty" good book. Many better books are available and MUCH more
enjoyable.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/7/02 6:51:26 PM, dcannon@... writes:
<< If I am following all these qualifications of what it means to be
a fundamentalist christian, insofar as the term is used here, you
must have these characteristics: >>
You DO know that nobody said Must.
And I hope you will admit that there are many MANY homeschooling Christians
who have that list and worse.
<<The rationalization of what appears to be semi regular Christian
bashing here is that it is only "those" Christians, the
fundamentalists christians, who are the target,>>
Is telling the truth "bashing"?
<< If I am following all these qualifications of what it means to be
a fundamentalist christian, insofar as the term is used here, you
must have these characteristics: >>
You DO know that nobody said Must.
And I hope you will admit that there are many MANY homeschooling Christians
who have that list and worse.
<<The rationalization of what appears to be semi regular Christian
bashing here is that it is only "those" Christians, the
fundamentalists christians, who are the target,>>
Is telling the truth "bashing"?
Betsy
**If I am following all these qualifications of what it means to be
a fundamentalist christian, insofar as the term is used here, you
must have these characteristics:**
Didn't someone here, in the past, suggest a more specific descriptor
than "fundamentalist"? Was it RRR?
Does anyone have a typical Statement of Faith from a major exclusionary
Christian homeschooling group? That might clarify what specific beliefs
we are talking about.
Betsy
a fundamentalist christian, insofar as the term is used here, you
must have these characteristics:**
Didn't someone here, in the past, suggest a more specific descriptor
than "fundamentalist"? Was it RRR?
Does anyone have a typical Statement of Faith from a major exclusionary
Christian homeschooling group? That might clarify what specific beliefs
we are talking about.
Betsy
kayb85
> Does anyone have a typical Statement of Faith from a majorexclusionary
> Christian homeschooling group? That might clarify what specificbeliefs
> we are talking about.Here's our group's statement of faith:
>
> Betsy
The Bible is the inspired and infallible Word of God and constitutes
His completed and final revelation to man. The Bible, in its original
autograph, is without error in whole and in part, including
theological concepts as well as geographical and historical details.
God has existed from all eternity in three persons: God the Father,
God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ was God in human
flesh being fully God and fully man, except without sin.
All men are in violation of God's righteous requirements and His holy
character both by nature and act, and are therefore under His wrath
and just condemnation.
The central purpose of the coming of Jesus Christ was to pay the
penalty for man's sin through His substitutionary atoning death on
the cross, the successful accomplishment of which was attested to by
His subsequent visible, bodily resurrection.
Salvation is offered as a gift, free to the sinner. This gift must be
responded to by individual faith, not trusting in any personal works
whatsoever, but in the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ alone.
Sheila
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
Betsy, I don't think a statement of faith is going to get to the
heart of who is a fundamentalist christian as the term used on
this list. A statement will include things like a belief in the
Trinity that are so common to most Christians that they in no way
capture the distinguishing characteristics of "fundamentalist
christians".
A good deal of the noise to signal ratio problem with religion
here seems to come from a lack of precision about who these
"fundamentalist christians" are - and from occasionally floating
in a particular denomination or person. I am not trying to
describe everything about fundamentalist christianity - I don't
need to know that most have 2 legs and 5 senses, just those
things that make them ~different~ from the Christians who are not
supposed to feel bashed by the religion comments here.
Thanks for the suggestion though - I guess I wasn't clear enough.
heart of who is a fundamentalist christian as the term used on
this list. A statement will include things like a belief in the
Trinity that are so common to most Christians that they in no way
capture the distinguishing characteristics of "fundamentalist
christians".
A good deal of the noise to signal ratio problem with religion
here seems to come from a lack of precision about who these
"fundamentalist christians" are - and from occasionally floating
in a particular denomination or person. I am not trying to
describe everything about fundamentalist christianity - I don't
need to know that most have 2 legs and 5 senses, just those
things that make them ~different~ from the Christians who are not
supposed to feel bashed by the religion comments here.
Thanks for the suggestion though - I guess I wasn't clear enough.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Betsy" <ecsamhill@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fundamentalist Christians
| **If I am following all these qualifications of what it means
to be
| a fundamentalist christian, insofar as the term is used here,
you
| must have these characteristics:**
|
| Didn't someone here, in the past, suggest a more specific
descriptor
| than "fundamentalist"? Was it RRR?
|
| Does anyone have a typical Statement of Faith from a major
exclusionary
| Christian homeschooling group? That might clarify what
specific beliefs
| we are talking about.
|
| Betsy
|
| ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject
line! ~~~~
|
| If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list,
please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll
(fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener
(HEM-Editor@...).
|
| To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
address an email to:
| [email protected]
|
| Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
Sandra, I am asking - a simple "this is what I heard - is this
what you meant" - I even followed it with a couple of questions
about aspects in which I recognized that I might have missed
something:
"Have I missed anything? Must all or some number be present?
Have I misstated any?"
There is nothing in an e-mail list that requires one to answer
any question, of course.
what you meant" - I even followed it with a couple of questions
about aspects in which I recognized that I might have missed
something:
"Have I missed anything? Must all or some number be present?
Have I misstated any?"
There is nothing in an e-mail list that requires one to answer
any question, of course.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fundamentalist Christians
|
| In a message dated 11/7/02 6:51:26 PM, dcannon@... writes:
|
| << If I am following all these qualifications of what it means
to be
| a fundamentalist christian, insofar as the term is used here,
you
| must have these characteristics: >>
|
| You DO know that nobody said Must.
| And I hope you will admit that there are many MANY
homeschooling Christians
| who have that list and worse.
|
| <<The rationalization of what appears to be semi regular
Christian
| bashing here is that it is only "those" Christians, the
| fundamentalists christians, who are the target,>>
|
| Is telling the truth "bashing"?
|
| ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject
line! ~~~~
|
| If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list,
please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll
(fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener
(HEM-Editor@...).
|
| To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
address an email to:
| [email protected]
|
| Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
Nicole Nichol
<<- you believe that there is no accurate translation of the Bible and it
what it says anyway is just a myth...but its a pretty good book like
Grapes of Wrath or the Koran>>
I'd certainly like to know who said that one b/c in no way could the Bible compare to the Quran as a good book when the King James Bible talks about whoredoms & incest.yuck!You will never see such filth in the Quran & the fact that people believe it is the word of God is just amazing.There are so many different versions of the Bible,but only 1 Quran no matter what denomination you are in,they all believe the same 1 book.
Renee
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
- you believe vile acts of crime are ok and we should feel criminal's
pain
- you believe that the wife should not submit to the husband whatsoever
- you believe that right and wrong are grey areas and there is no Hell
- you believe that your church pastor is never right
- you believe you have a duty enforce "if it feels good do it" philosophy
- you believe that there is no accurate translation of the Bible and it
what it says anyway is just a myth...but its a pretty good book like
Grapes of Wrath or the Koran
-I believe that acts of violence against CHILDREN are NOT Ok, and I DO feel
their pain.
-I believe the wife should not submit to the husband whatsoever; nor he, her.
-I believe that right and wrong ARE often grey areas---and there is CERTAINLY
no hell.
-I believe NO church pastor.
-I believe if it feels good, do it. Yes.
-I believe that the bible is just a collection of myths and parables. Not
even a "pretty" good book. Many better books are available and MUCH more
enjoyable.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
what it says anyway is just a myth...but its a pretty good book like
Grapes of Wrath or the Koran>>
I'd certainly like to know who said that one b/c in no way could the Bible compare to the Quran as a good book when the King James Bible talks about whoredoms & incest.yuck!You will never see such filth in the Quran & the fact that people believe it is the word of God is just amazing.There are so many different versions of the Bible,but only 1 Quran no matter what denomination you are in,they all believe the same 1 book.
Renee
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
> - you believe in corporal punishment of children as a virtueOdd that these were the "opposites" :
> - you believe that the wife should in all things submit to the
> husband
> - you believe that every one who disagrees with your religious
> views will go to Hell
> - you believe that your church pastor is always right
> - you believe you have a duty to convert all who disagree
> - you believe that your preferred translation of the Bible if the
> literal word of God in every respect, without allowance for
> parable or poetry
- you believe vile acts of crime are ok and we should feel criminal's
pain
- you believe that the wife should not submit to the husband whatsoever
- you believe that right and wrong are grey areas and there is no Hell
- you believe that your church pastor is never right
- you believe you have a duty enforce "if it feels good do it" philosophy
- you believe that there is no accurate translation of the Bible and it
what it says anyway is just a myth...but its a pretty good book like
Grapes of Wrath or the Koran
-I believe that acts of violence against CHILDREN are NOT Ok, and I DO feel
their pain.
-I believe the wife should not submit to the husband whatsoever; nor he, her.
-I believe that right and wrong ARE often grey areas---and there is CERTAINLY
no hell.
-I believe NO church pastor.
-I believe if it feels good, do it. Yes.
-I believe that the bible is just a collection of myths and parables. Not
even a "pretty" good book. Many better books are available and MUCH more
enjoyable.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nicole Nichol
<<- you believe that there is no accurate translation of the Bible and it
what it says anyway is just a myth...but its a pretty good book like
Grapes of Wrath or the Koran>>
I'd certainly like to know who said that one b/c in no way could the Bible compare to the Quran as a good book when the King James Bible talks about whoredoms & incest.yuck!You will never see such filth in the Quran & the fact that people believe it is the word of God is just amazing.There are so many different versions of the Bible,but only 1 Quran no matter what denomination you are in,they all believe the same 1 book.
Renee
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
- you believe vile acts of crime are ok and we should feel criminal's
pain
- you believe that the wife should not submit to the husband whatsoever
- you believe that right and wrong are grey areas and there is no Hell
- you believe that your church pastor is never right
- you believe you have a duty enforce "if it feels good do it" philosophy
- you believe that there is no accurate translation of the Bible and it
what it says anyway is just a myth...but its a pretty good book like
Grapes of Wrath or the Koran
-I believe that acts of violence against CHILDREN are NOT Ok, and I DO feel
their pain.
-I believe the wife should not submit to the husband whatsoever; nor he, her.
-I believe that right and wrong ARE often grey areas---and there is CERTAINLY
no hell.
-I believe NO church pastor.
-I believe if it feels good, do it. Yes.
-I believe that the bible is just a collection of myths and parables. Not
even a "pretty" good book. Many better books are available and MUCH more
enjoyable.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
what it says anyway is just a myth...but its a pretty good book like
Grapes of Wrath or the Koran>>
I'd certainly like to know who said that one b/c in no way could the Bible compare to the Quran as a good book when the King James Bible talks about whoredoms & incest.yuck!You will never see such filth in the Quran & the fact that people believe it is the word of God is just amazing.There are so many different versions of the Bible,but only 1 Quran no matter what denomination you are in,they all believe the same 1 book.
Renee
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
> - you believe in corporal punishment of children as a virtueOdd that these were the "opposites" :
> - you believe that the wife should in all things submit to the
> husband
> - you believe that every one who disagrees with your religious
> views will go to Hell
> - you believe that your church pastor is always right
> - you believe you have a duty to convert all who disagree
> - you believe that your preferred translation of the Bible if the
> literal word of God in every respect, without allowance for
> parable or poetry
- you believe vile acts of crime are ok and we should feel criminal's
pain
- you believe that the wife should not submit to the husband whatsoever
- you believe that right and wrong are grey areas and there is no Hell
- you believe that your church pastor is never right
- you believe you have a duty enforce "if it feels good do it" philosophy
- you believe that there is no accurate translation of the Bible and it
what it says anyway is just a myth...but its a pretty good book like
Grapes of Wrath or the Koran
-I believe that acts of violence against CHILDREN are NOT Ok, and I DO feel
their pain.
-I believe the wife should not submit to the husband whatsoever; nor he, her.
-I believe that right and wrong ARE often grey areas---and there is CERTAINLY
no hell.
-I believe NO church pastor.
-I believe if it feels good, do it. Yes.
-I believe that the bible is just a collection of myths and parables. Not
even a "pretty" good book. Many better books are available and MUCH more
enjoyable.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/8/02 12:23:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, sheran@...
writes:
Does this mean that it doesn't matter what I do or how I treat others, or if
I follow the laws or not, as long as I believe that Jesus is my savior, then
I can go to heaven?
So heaven isn't for the "good" and hell for the "bad" but for those who
believe and don't believe?
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> This gift must beThis is one of the part of Christianity I don't understand.
> responded to by individual faith, not trusting in any personal works
> whatsoever, but in the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ alone.
>
>
Does this mean that it doesn't matter what I do or how I treat others, or if
I follow the laws or not, as long as I believe that Jesus is my savior, then
I can go to heaven?
So heaven isn't for the "good" and hell for the "bad" but for those who
believe and don't believe?
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85
> So heaven isn't for the "good" and hell for the "bad" but for thosewho
> believe and don't believe?That is what I believe. The Bible says that all have sinned. Heaven
> Elissa
is only for those who are completely sinless. So even one sin makes
a person a sinner and not able to be in the presence of a holy God.
It is good to try to be a good person, but no one can be make
themselves perfect, and perfection is what is required. The only
thing that can bring us into the presence of a holy God (and give us
adoption as his children) is if we ask Him to forgive our sins. That
is why Jesus--fully God (therefore sinless) and fully human died on
the cross. When we stand before God the Father, all He will see is
that His Son's blood has covered our sins.
Sheila
Betsy
**Here's our group's statement of faith:**
Thank you for taking the time to share the specifics.
In all the SOFs that I read I didn't see anything that flat-out said one
has to adopt an aggressive and intolerant attitude along with the other
beliefs listed. So, I am going to conclude that some people are just
fundamentalists, people with specific beliefs, and other people, the
louder ones <g>, are fundamentalists with attitude. And when I'm
describing the latter, I'll try to be more specific than using the
general term "fundamentalist". If I mean obnoxious or overbearing
people with fundamentalist beliefs, I'll try to remember to include the
adjective obnoxious (or overbearing) so that the well-behaved and
reasonable-to-get-along with fundamentalists don't think that I mean them.
(I'm not being sarcastic. I am sincere.)
Betsy
Thank you for taking the time to share the specifics.
In all the SOFs that I read I didn't see anything that flat-out said one
has to adopt an aggressive and intolerant attitude along with the other
beliefs listed. So, I am going to conclude that some people are just
fundamentalists, people with specific beliefs, and other people, the
louder ones <g>, are fundamentalists with attitude. And when I'm
describing the latter, I'll try to be more specific than using the
general term "fundamentalist". If I mean obnoxious or overbearing
people with fundamentalist beliefs, I'll try to remember to include the
adjective obnoxious (or overbearing) so that the well-behaved and
reasonable-to-get-along with fundamentalists don't think that I mean them.
(I'm not being sarcastic. I am sincere.)
Betsy
jwoolfolk
> This gift must beDoes this mean that it doesn't matter what I do or how I treat others, or if
> responded to by individual faith, not trusting in any personal works
> whatsoever, but in the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ alone.
>
>
>>>>>This is one of the part of Christianity I don't understand.
I follow the laws or not, as long as I believe that Jesus is my savior, then
I can go to heaven?
So heaven isn't for the "good" and hell for the "bad" but for those who
believe and don't believe?
Elissa<<<<<<
Well it depends on what type of Chrisitan one is.
Chrisitan Catholics do belive that how we act here on earth has concequences in eternity (I sound like Maximus) that just "beliving" is not enough. Anyone can belive in Jesus...its what we do with that knowledge (and your accountable if you have the "full truth" of the faith....how our concience is formed comes into play here) that is key. So there is Purgetory to deal with our "leftover" sins before we can go sinless to a Holy God. Also we belive that we cannot know what all of God's provisions might be for others since man cannot grasp the mystery of God's infinate grace and mercy. I always had a hard time with the "once saved" explinations hard without some way for God to act in Mercy at the end depending on how a life had been lived and what information a person may have had.
Then there are those Christians who belive in "The Elect". Don't ask.... its too hard to explain.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/8/02 12:47:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jwoolfolk@... writes:
What is "The Elect"?
Elissa, off to google
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jwoolfolk@... writes:
> Then there are those Christians who belive in "The Elect". Don't ask.... itsNow you know I'm going to!
> too hard to explain.
>
>
>
>
What is "The Elect"?
Elissa, off to google
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/8/02 8:10:18 AM, Earthmomma67@... writes:
<< Does this mean that it doesn't matter what I do or how I treat others, or
if
I follow the laws or not, as long as I believe that Jesus is my savior, then
I can go to heaven? >>
You can't just believe it. You have to ASK him to save you. You have to be
born again (in fundamentalist Christian terms, which is what the topic is,
before people drag me off and tell me what Catholics believe--I KNOW). You
have to profess your faith and be baptised (if you live long enough). The
moment that you "let Jesus into your heart" is when you're saved, but then
you accept baptism because Jesus did (it's symbolic, but it makes you a
member of the church).
<<So heaven isn't for the "good" and hell for the "bad" but for those who
believe and don't believe?>>
Yes. Only moreso.
Sandra
<< Does this mean that it doesn't matter what I do or how I treat others, or
if
I follow the laws or not, as long as I believe that Jesus is my savior, then
I can go to heaven? >>
You can't just believe it. You have to ASK him to save you. You have to be
born again (in fundamentalist Christian terms, which is what the topic is,
before people drag me off and tell me what Catholics believe--I KNOW). You
have to profess your faith and be baptised (if you live long enough). The
moment that you "let Jesus into your heart" is when you're saved, but then
you accept baptism because Jesus did (it's symbolic, but it makes you a
member of the church).
<<So heaven isn't for the "good" and hell for the "bad" but for those who
believe and don't believe?>>
Yes. Only moreso.
Sandra
kayb85
The
Sheila
> moment that you "let Jesus into your heart" is when you're saved,but then
> you accept baptism because Jesus did (it's symbolic, but it makesyou a
> member of the church).Not all evangelical churches require baptism for membership.
Sheila
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/8/02 12:37:04 PM, sheran@... writes:
<< Not all evangelical churches require baptism for membership. >>
In my experience, they will accept adult baptism and "membership transfer"
from another fundamentalist church, but they won't accept infant baptism.
Sandra
<< Not all evangelical churches require baptism for membership. >>
In my experience, they will accept adult baptism and "membership transfer"
from another fundamentalist church, but they won't accept infant baptism.
Sandra