New/Question
[email protected]
I joined this list a while ago, but have been too busy reading the
numerous *lively* posts to add my intro. I have a small window of
opportunity now, so here goes. I am Carol and I have been married to Bud for
24 years. Our son Colton is 12. He was adopted at birth in an open, private
adoption, and I unschool him. Jimmie is 11. He's been with us for two
years, first as a foster son and then we adopted him a year and a half ago.
He is in public school, which is a whole other post. Suffice to say, I had
him at home for a year and then we had to make the difficult and painful
decision to put him in public school. Kayla is 2 1/2, still foster at this
point, but we will be adopting her next year.
My question concerns Jimmie. It was exactly 2 years ago today that he
came to live with us. A victim of early neglect and abuse, he went through a
staggering eleven foster placements before coming to us. His emotional
baggage was and still is heavy. My question is not so much about Jimmie
himself, because I think we will always be dealing with the same problems on
some level. My question is a selfish one, and it is for me. I am exhausted
from parenting this child. I am discouraged. I have been emotionally and
physically battered by him. I have been lied to and manipulated on a regular
basis. I have cleaned up after his physical attacks on our home when he is
feeling angry. All that said, I am still as committed to him as ever. But
can someone tell me how I can keep going when my spirit is broken? Just
getting out of bed and facing the challenges of the day is monumental for me.
I know it is not my place to change Jimmie, and I respect his wounded soul.
But how do I keep doing this?
Warmly,
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
numerous *lively* posts to add my intro. I have a small window of
opportunity now, so here goes. I am Carol and I have been married to Bud for
24 years. Our son Colton is 12. He was adopted at birth in an open, private
adoption, and I unschool him. Jimmie is 11. He's been with us for two
years, first as a foster son and then we adopted him a year and a half ago.
He is in public school, which is a whole other post. Suffice to say, I had
him at home for a year and then we had to make the difficult and painful
decision to put him in public school. Kayla is 2 1/2, still foster at this
point, but we will be adopting her next year.
My question concerns Jimmie. It was exactly 2 years ago today that he
came to live with us. A victim of early neglect and abuse, he went through a
staggering eleven foster placements before coming to us. His emotional
baggage was and still is heavy. My question is not so much about Jimmie
himself, because I think we will always be dealing with the same problems on
some level. My question is a selfish one, and it is for me. I am exhausted
from parenting this child. I am discouraged. I have been emotionally and
physically battered by him. I have been lied to and manipulated on a regular
basis. I have cleaned up after his physical attacks on our home when he is
feeling angry. All that said, I am still as committed to him as ever. But
can someone tell me how I can keep going when my spirit is broken? Just
getting out of bed and facing the challenges of the day is monumental for me.
I know it is not my place to change Jimmie, and I respect his wounded soul.
But how do I keep doing this?
Warmly,
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
>My question is a selfish one, and it is for me. I am exhaustedemotionally and
> from parenting this child. I am discouraged. I have been
> physically battered by him. I have been lied to andmanipulated on a regular
> basis. I have cleaned up after his physical attacks on ourhome when he is
> feeling angry. All that said, I am still as committed to him asever. But
> can someone tell me how I can keep going when my spirit isbroken? Just
> getting out of bed and facing the challenges of the day ismonumental for me.
> I know it is not my place to change Jimmie, and I respect hiswounded soul.
> But how do I keep doing this?I don't think you should.
Whatever your decisions or solutions for Jimmie (and I hope
you'll get good advice about such here and elsewhere and
anywhere), I think you should ask this question to yourself: Why
are you adopting another child when you personally are not
physically safe from the child you currently have, and your spirit is
broken? What kind of family are you in a position to offer her?
What kind of mother? What kind of siblings? (Mom: broken?
Sibling: breaker?)
I am not without sympathy for Jimmie, nor without sympathy for
you, but my main sympathy is with your other son and with the
toddler you are planning to bring into this situation. She is not a
problem or a solution, but from what you have told us you are
setting her up to be a victim, physically and/or emotionally.
Pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/27/2002 9:01:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
pamhartley@... writes:
along pretty well with my other son. His problem seems to be with the adults
in his life. As far as adopting Kayla, I cannot imagine life without this
child. She came to us 21 months ago a totally unresponsive baby who had
never bonded with anyone. Now she is a delightful, gloriously normal toddler
who blesses our lives immeasurably. I would certainly never put her in
danger, or my other son. And I may not have made this clear, but Jimmie is
already adopted. He's a done deal; I just need to come to some sort of peace
about this.
Carol, who feels like she isn't explaining herself well at all!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamhartley@... writes:
> She is not aHe has never hurt her, and I truly don't believe he would. He even gets
> problem or a solution, but from what you have told us you are
> setting her up to be a victim, physically and/or emotionally.
>
along pretty well with my other son. His problem seems to be with the adults
in his life. As far as adopting Kayla, I cannot imagine life without this
child. She came to us 21 months ago a totally unresponsive baby who had
never bonded with anyone. Now she is a delightful, gloriously normal toddler
who blesses our lives immeasurably. I would certainly never put her in
danger, or my other son. And I may not have made this clear, but Jimmie is
already adopted. He's a done deal; I just need to come to some sort of peace
about this.
Carol, who feels like she isn't explaining herself well at all!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., sognokids@a... wrote:
your first post and didn't really mean the things you said, please
clarify so we can understand better.
In this medium all we have are words, and I have to take them at
face value. You said Jimmie is physically abusive at least to you
(and I don't see why that wouldn't transfer to another child if he
felt he could best control his world that way, even if it hasn't yet,
but I don't have a lot of experience with physically abusive
relationships so maybe I'm all wet on that one) and your
statements about being beyond what you can handle, and how
can you go on, etc.
And yes, I understood that Jimmie is already adopted -- my
question was the advisability of adopting the little girl when it
sounded like you were not able to cope with life with Jimmie as it
is. When there is that kind of stress (again, can only go on what
you told us) I, personally, don't see it as fair to adopt a third child
into that situation when you're broken yourself.
Maybe you can give some specifics of a problem situation in your
house -- what you did, what Jimmie did, how you reacted to each
other. There are some pretty perceptive people here who might
be able to help you pinpoint things you can try differently in future.
Pam
> In a message dated 10/27/2002 9:01:18 PM Pacific StandardTime,
> pamhartley@m... writes:even gets
>
>
> > She is not a
> > problem or a solution, but from what you have told us you are
> > setting her up to be a victim, physically and/or emotionally.
> >
>
> He has never hurt her, and I truly don't believe he would. He
> along pretty well with my other son. His problem seems to bewith the adults
> in his life. As far as adopting Kayla, I cannot imagine lifewithout this
> child. She came to us 21 months ago a totally unresponsivebaby who had
> never bonded with anyone. Now she is a delightful, gloriouslynormal toddler
> who blesses our lives immeasurably. I would certainly neverput her in
> danger, or my other son. And I may not have made this clear,but Jimmie is
> already adopted. He's a done deal; I just need to come tosome sort of peace
> about this.If you were just temporarily batty (happens to a lot of us <g>) in
>
> Carol, who feels like she isn't explaining herself well at all!
your first post and didn't really mean the things you said, please
clarify so we can understand better.
In this medium all we have are words, and I have to take them at
face value. You said Jimmie is physically abusive at least to you
(and I don't see why that wouldn't transfer to another child if he
felt he could best control his world that way, even if it hasn't yet,
but I don't have a lot of experience with physically abusive
relationships so maybe I'm all wet on that one) and your
statements about being beyond what you can handle, and how
can you go on, etc.
And yes, I understood that Jimmie is already adopted -- my
question was the advisability of adopting the little girl when it
sounded like you were not able to cope with life with Jimmie as it
is. When there is that kind of stress (again, can only go on what
you told us) I, personally, don't see it as fair to adopt a third child
into that situation when you're broken yourself.
Maybe you can give some specifics of a problem situation in your
house -- what you did, what Jimmie did, how you reacted to each
other. There are some pretty perceptive people here who might
be able to help you pinpoint things you can try differently in future.
Pam
Mary Bianco
From: sognokids@...
<<All that said, I am still as committed to him as ever. But can someone
tell me how I can keep going when my spirit is broken? Just getting out of
bed and facing the challenges of the day is monumental for me.
I know it is not my place to change Jimmie, and I respect his wounded soul.
But how do I keep doing this?>>
Not really knowing the situation but what little you told and not really
being in that family, it's hard to say. For one, I hope there is counseling
for your son and the family as a whole. It doesn't just affect you, but the
other children as well. Even if you don't see it right now. Even if the
conflict is only between you and your son. It still trickles down onto the
other children. So I think counseling is a must. Second, I'm thinking here
that you are making sure that the children are safe from his anger as well.
You mentioned he takes it out on your house. I'm also thinking you mean
throwing stuff or destroying household things and not throwing at someone or
wrecking the other kids stuff. Still bad enough to live with, still damaging
emotionally, just not physically. Yes?
Thirdly, I hear you say you want to go on. That you are committed, and
that's most of it right there. You aren't throwing in the towel even though
you are stressed and tired. Some parents do just give up and maybe that's
what your son is expecting. Seems like everyone else did on him, right?
Maybe he's just trying to help the situation and hurry it along. So he can't
get too comfortable and loved before you send him on his way.
I don't have any quick easy answers, but look at it this way. You could be
the one and only person to ever make a difference in this boys life. You
seem to really want to make that difference. I think that says a lot right
there.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
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<<All that said, I am still as committed to him as ever. But can someone
tell me how I can keep going when my spirit is broken? Just getting out of
bed and facing the challenges of the day is monumental for me.
I know it is not my place to change Jimmie, and I respect his wounded soul.
But how do I keep doing this?>>
Not really knowing the situation but what little you told and not really
being in that family, it's hard to say. For one, I hope there is counseling
for your son and the family as a whole. It doesn't just affect you, but the
other children as well. Even if you don't see it right now. Even if the
conflict is only between you and your son. It still trickles down onto the
other children. So I think counseling is a must. Second, I'm thinking here
that you are making sure that the children are safe from his anger as well.
You mentioned he takes it out on your house. I'm also thinking you mean
throwing stuff or destroying household things and not throwing at someone or
wrecking the other kids stuff. Still bad enough to live with, still damaging
emotionally, just not physically. Yes?
Thirdly, I hear you say you want to go on. That you are committed, and
that's most of it right there. You aren't throwing in the towel even though
you are stressed and tired. Some parents do just give up and maybe that's
what your son is expecting. Seems like everyone else did on him, right?
Maybe he's just trying to help the situation and hurry it along. So he can't
get too comfortable and loved before you send him on his way.
I don't have any quick easy answers, but look at it this way. You could be
the one and only person to ever make a difference in this boys life. You
seem to really want to make that difference. I think that says a lot right
there.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp
Myranda
I don't personally have any experiences like yours, but someone on another one of my lists takes foster children, often teenagers, and they are often angry and have problems controlling their anger. She signs those up for some form of karate with a great guy that lives next door to her, they learn a lot about anger management and self-control from him. Plus they learn how to defend themselves, and that helps a lot when their anger comes from fear of abuse. She has a punching bag hung up in her garage, and they go out there for a few rounds when they're upset. BTW, I think what you're doing is wonderful!!!!
Myranda
I joined this list a while ago, but have been too busy reading the
numerous *lively* posts to add my intro. I have a small window of
opportunity now, so here goes. I am Carol and I have been married to Bud for
24 years. Our son Colton is 12. He was adopted at birth in an open, private
adoption, and I unschool him. Jimmie is 11. He's been with us for two
years, first as a foster son and then we adopted him a year and a half ago.
He is in public school, which is a whole other post. Suffice to say, I had
him at home for a year and then we had to make the difficult and painful
decision to put him in public school. Kayla is 2 1/2, still foster at this
point, but we will be adopting her next year.
My question concerns Jimmie. It was exactly 2 years ago today that he
came to live with us. A victim of early neglect and abuse, he went through a
staggering eleven foster placements before coming to us. His emotional
baggage was and still is heavy. My question is not so much about Jimmie
himself, because I think we will always be dealing with the same problems on
some level. My question is a selfish one, and it is for me. I am exhausted
from parenting this child. I am discouraged. I have been emotionally and
physically battered by him. I have been lied to and manipulated on a regular
basis. I have cleaned up after his physical attacks on our home when he is
feeling angry. All that said, I am still as committed to him as ever. But
can someone tell me how I can keep going when my spirit is broken? Just
getting out of bed and facing the challenges of the day is monumental for me.
I know it is not my place to change Jimmie, and I respect his wounded soul.
But how do I keep doing this?
Warmly,
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
I joined this list a while ago, but have been too busy reading the
numerous *lively* posts to add my intro. I have a small window of
opportunity now, so here goes. I am Carol and I have been married to Bud for
24 years. Our son Colton is 12. He was adopted at birth in an open, private
adoption, and I unschool him. Jimmie is 11. He's been with us for two
years, first as a foster son and then we adopted him a year and a half ago.
He is in public school, which is a whole other post. Suffice to say, I had
him at home for a year and then we had to make the difficult and painful
decision to put him in public school. Kayla is 2 1/2, still foster at this
point, but we will be adopting her next year.
My question concerns Jimmie. It was exactly 2 years ago today that he
came to live with us. A victim of early neglect and abuse, he went through a
staggering eleven foster placements before coming to us. His emotional
baggage was and still is heavy. My question is not so much about Jimmie
himself, because I think we will always be dealing with the same problems on
some level. My question is a selfish one, and it is for me. I am exhausted
from parenting this child. I am discouraged. I have been emotionally and
physically battered by him. I have been lied to and manipulated on a regular
basis. I have cleaned up after his physical attacks on our home when he is
feeling angry. All that said, I am still as committed to him as ever. But
can someone tell me how I can keep going when my spirit is broken? Just
getting out of bed and facing the challenges of the day is monumental for me.
I know it is not my place to change Jimmie, and I respect his wounded soul.
But how do I keep doing this?
Warmly,
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Green
"He has never hurt her, and I truly don't believe he would. He even gets
along pretty well with my other son. His problem seems to be with the adults
in his life. As far as adopting Kayla, I cannot imagine life without this
child. She came to us 21 months ago a totally unresponsive baby who had
never bonded with anyone. Now she is a delightful, gloriously normal toddler
who blesses our lives immeasurably. I would certainly never put her in
danger, or my other son. And I may not have made this clear, but Jimmie is
already adopted. He's a done deal; I just need to come to some sort of peace
about this."
I wasn't going to respond to the post, but after reading this particular section, I felt that maybe I did have
something to offer. I was abused by several adults while I was a child and although I will not get into
the specifics, I do want to tell you what it did to me. The biggest thing that happened was that I stopped
trusting adults, period. Even when I moved away from the situation and into a safe one, I did not trust
these adults either. Once you are burned by authority figures, that's it (or it was for me). He will have
an extremely difficult time trusting adults for the rest of his life no matter what you do.
This might sound like there is no hope, but that isn't true. You are his hope and your job at this point
is to give love and acceptance. When a child is abused, they grow up really quickly and if put in the
situation, can take care of themselves if they need to. He can take care of himself physically, but you
are there to help him with his spirit. He will find it when the time is right, but it will only be because he
did have someone there to offer him the unconditional love he deserves. Love him, bless him, and care
for him.
In every situation, always ask....what would love do now? And act on that.
Also, don't be so hard on yourself. If you need to take some time for you, then take it. You are no good
to him or the rest of the family if you let yourself get to this point. The above question should be asked
when it comes to you to. What would love do now? If you haven't read it yet, this book might be of some
help to you..........Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch (it's not religious). Also, if Jimmie is
a reader, he might like to read the teen version of the book. (just a suggestion)
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
along pretty well with my other son. His problem seems to be with the adults
in his life. As far as adopting Kayla, I cannot imagine life without this
child. She came to us 21 months ago a totally unresponsive baby who had
never bonded with anyone. Now she is a delightful, gloriously normal toddler
who blesses our lives immeasurably. I would certainly never put her in
danger, or my other son. And I may not have made this clear, but Jimmie is
already adopted. He's a done deal; I just need to come to some sort of peace
about this."
I wasn't going to respond to the post, but after reading this particular section, I felt that maybe I did have
something to offer. I was abused by several adults while I was a child and although I will not get into
the specifics, I do want to tell you what it did to me. The biggest thing that happened was that I stopped
trusting adults, period. Even when I moved away from the situation and into a safe one, I did not trust
these adults either. Once you are burned by authority figures, that's it (or it was for me). He will have
an extremely difficult time trusting adults for the rest of his life no matter what you do.
This might sound like there is no hope, but that isn't true. You are his hope and your job at this point
is to give love and acceptance. When a child is abused, they grow up really quickly and if put in the
situation, can take care of themselves if they need to. He can take care of himself physically, but you
are there to help him with his spirit. He will find it when the time is right, but it will only be because he
did have someone there to offer him the unconditional love he deserves. Love him, bless him, and care
for him.
In every situation, always ask....what would love do now? And act on that.
Also, don't be so hard on yourself. If you need to take some time for you, then take it. You are no good
to him or the rest of the family if you let yourself get to this point. The above question should be asked
when it comes to you to. What would love do now? If you haven't read it yet, this book might be of some
help to you..........Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch (it's not religious). Also, if Jimmie is
a reader, he might like to read the teen version of the book. (just a suggestion)
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/2002 4:49:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
myrandab@... writes:
punching bag--I took a few whacks at it myself yesterday!
Thanks!
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
myrandab@... writes:
> She signs those up for some form of karate with a great guy that lives nextThis is a good idea, and Jimmie would probably love it. We already have the
> door to her, they learn a lot about anger management and self-control from
> him.
punching bag--I took a few whacks at it myself yesterday!
Thanks!
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/27/2002 11:07:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mummyone24@... writes:
going to get pulled out from under him. A couple of his unsuccessful
placements were with family, and it must have been devastating to him when
they didn't work out. Anyway, I'm feeling better today, a bit more together
and positive. I will keep going!
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummyone24@... writes:
> Some parents do just give up and maybe that'sEven though he's adopted, I think a part of Jimmie feels like the rug is
> what your son is expecting.
going to get pulled out from under him. A couple of his unsuccessful
placements were with family, and it must have been devastating to him when
they didn't work out. Anyway, I'm feeling better today, a bit more together
and positive. I will keep going!
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/2002 6:54:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
heartlightdfw@... writes:
are engraved with the words faith, hope and love. I bought them with Jimmie
in mind and vowed that when things got rough with him, I would not respond
until I could do so from a foundation of faith, hope and love. It sounds
hokey, but it works. Trouble is, I am often silent for days! (Kidding
here!)
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
heartlightdfw@... writes:
> In every situation, always ask....what would love do now? And act on that.Thank you so much, Jen for your heartfelt response. I wear three rings that
>
are engraved with the words faith, hope and love. I bought them with Jimmie
in mind and vowed that when things got rough with him, I would not respond
until I could do so from a foundation of faith, hope and love. It sounds
hokey, but it works. Trouble is, I am often silent for days! (Kidding
here!)
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>through a
> My question concerns Jimmie. It was exactly 2 years ago today that he
> came to live with us. A victim of early neglect and abuse, he went
> staggering eleven foster placements before coming to us. His emotionalon
> baggage was and still is heavy. My question is not so much about Jimmie
> himself, because I think we will always be dealing with the same problems
> some level. My question is a selfish one, and it is for me. I amexhausted
> from parenting this child. I am discouraged. I have been emotionally andregular
> physically battered by him. I have been lied to and manipulated on a
> basis. I have cleaned up after his physical attacks on our home when heis
> feeling angry. All that said, I am still as committed to him as ever.But
> can someone tell me how I can keep going when my spirit is broken? Justme.
> getting out of bed and facing the challenges of the day is monumental for
> I know it is not my place to change Jimmie, and I respect his woundedsoul.
> But how do I keep doing this?Welcome Carol. I don't have any ideas for helping you deal with your own
situation. But I'm just listening to a tape of the book Touching Spirit
Bear (I think that's the title) and thought that Jimmie might like to hear
it. It's about a 15 year old boy from an abusive home who has been in
trouble most of his life. Now he's in really big trouble because of all his
anger, and he's banished to a remote island for a year as part of a
restorative justice circle. Jimmie might be able to relate to Cole's anger,
and there's a lot in the book about native healing practices and learning
take responsibility for where your life is going now. I got it from our
library.
Tia
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/27/02 8:23:30 PM, sognokids@... writes:
<< Just
getting out of bed and facing the challenges of the day is monumental for me.
I know it is not my place to change Jimmie, and I respect his wounded soul.
But how do I keep doing this? >>
Perhaps by not adding yet another child.
I have some harsh feelings about this because my parents took in two cousins
who had been neglected, and one abused, and the abused girl "sexualized" my
younger sister. That was never told until we were all grown. My parents
broke up when I was 17. My older cousin was 18, and took a live-in
babysitting job. The younger ones were 15 (my mean, violent cousin) and 14
(my sister, who denies being messed up by that breakup, but I could tell you
stories for two hours).
My own childhood was crowded badly by my parents' need to help my mother's
sister's children. That might be another reason I liked school. At school
it was just me, not me and my cousin (except in band, and sometimes
socially).
The reason my aunt couldn't raise her own girls (she had three older boys,
one of whom ended up shot dead, the next in various misdemeanor problems and
the middle of the five moved far away and stayed clean) was alcoholism. When
we took her daughters I was seven. Within that next ten years my mother
succumbed to alcoholism herself.
There are genetic factors that can't always be overcome. Even without the
abuse and neglect, he is genetically a part of people who will abuse and
neglect.
There are lots of wonderful adoption stories in the world, and some
nightmares. I know some of both personally.
There must be some really terrible factors for you to need school to help.
I would be afraid for a little girl being so close in with a child with such
problems.
Holly was molested (with the fingers of two little boys) when she was one
year old. It led to the breakup of a group I had really loved, because one
of the moms had a boy who was being sexual to other children and she saw no
problem with it at all.
My sister was molested and was afraid to tell my parents, because she was
(rightly so) physically afraid of my younger cousin (who was a year older
than she was). That cousin hit me once, when we were ten and twelve of so,
until she was tired of hitting. I just curled up and took it, protecting my
face and stomach, because she was strong, furious, and had little to no
conscience.
Had I told, she would have gotten a spanking, and then later something of
mine would have disappeared or been destroyed.
I realize this isn't the type of response you're hoping for. I hope others
have good ideas to help you keep doing what you're doing.
My heart goes out to children who have been abused and neglected. When my
mother left my dad, she got pregnant within two years. That boy was
neglected and abused bigtime, and he has never been a useful adult. Both his
parents were alcoholics, my mother was drunk when she went into labor. They
married after he was born, and that lasted three years. Altogether a horror
story.
I took him in then, and again when he was thirteen. Being his sister didn't
save me from the lying and drug use and stealing from us. I talked my mom
into going to AA so she could be given custody again. He's never held a job
longer than a month and a half, and he's 30 now.
Can your marriage survive through this to the point where all three children
are up and out?
If it can't what will become of each of them? What will become of the parent
who ends up with custody of the middle boy?
I don't know the solution, but I do see more problems, just by setting it out
next to my own formative years.
It's a good thing I was in college when I was seventeen, living in a dorm,
because there was no home to go back to by Spring break.
I feel I was no help at all, but maybe I'll be the only one with a view of
"the other side," so I'll post this anyway.
Sandra
<< Just
getting out of bed and facing the challenges of the day is monumental for me.
I know it is not my place to change Jimmie, and I respect his wounded soul.
But how do I keep doing this? >>
Perhaps by not adding yet another child.
I have some harsh feelings about this because my parents took in two cousins
who had been neglected, and one abused, and the abused girl "sexualized" my
younger sister. That was never told until we were all grown. My parents
broke up when I was 17. My older cousin was 18, and took a live-in
babysitting job. The younger ones were 15 (my mean, violent cousin) and 14
(my sister, who denies being messed up by that breakup, but I could tell you
stories for two hours).
My own childhood was crowded badly by my parents' need to help my mother's
sister's children. That might be another reason I liked school. At school
it was just me, not me and my cousin (except in band, and sometimes
socially).
The reason my aunt couldn't raise her own girls (she had three older boys,
one of whom ended up shot dead, the next in various misdemeanor problems and
the middle of the five moved far away and stayed clean) was alcoholism. When
we took her daughters I was seven. Within that next ten years my mother
succumbed to alcoholism herself.
There are genetic factors that can't always be overcome. Even without the
abuse and neglect, he is genetically a part of people who will abuse and
neglect.
There are lots of wonderful adoption stories in the world, and some
nightmares. I know some of both personally.
There must be some really terrible factors for you to need school to help.
I would be afraid for a little girl being so close in with a child with such
problems.
Holly was molested (with the fingers of two little boys) when she was one
year old. It led to the breakup of a group I had really loved, because one
of the moms had a boy who was being sexual to other children and she saw no
problem with it at all.
My sister was molested and was afraid to tell my parents, because she was
(rightly so) physically afraid of my younger cousin (who was a year older
than she was). That cousin hit me once, when we were ten and twelve of so,
until she was tired of hitting. I just curled up and took it, protecting my
face and stomach, because she was strong, furious, and had little to no
conscience.
Had I told, she would have gotten a spanking, and then later something of
mine would have disappeared or been destroyed.
I realize this isn't the type of response you're hoping for. I hope others
have good ideas to help you keep doing what you're doing.
My heart goes out to children who have been abused and neglected. When my
mother left my dad, she got pregnant within two years. That boy was
neglected and abused bigtime, and he has never been a useful adult. Both his
parents were alcoholics, my mother was drunk when she went into labor. They
married after he was born, and that lasted three years. Altogether a horror
story.
I took him in then, and again when he was thirteen. Being his sister didn't
save me from the lying and drug use and stealing from us. I talked my mom
into going to AA so she could be given custody again. He's never held a job
longer than a month and a half, and he's 30 now.
Can your marriage survive through this to the point where all three children
are up and out?
If it can't what will become of each of them? What will become of the parent
who ends up with custody of the middle boy?
I don't know the solution, but I do see more problems, just by setting it out
next to my own formative years.
It's a good thing I was in college when I was seventeen, living in a dorm,
because there was no home to go back to by Spring break.
I feel I was no help at all, but maybe I'll be the only one with a view of
"the other side," so I'll post this anyway.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/2002 10:25:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
we're going to adopt her! In all that time, Jimmie has never once directed
his anger at her, and she is supervised by myself or my husband at all times.
And my marriage is just fine. We're coming up on 25 years.
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
>Kayla has been with us for nearly two years, most of her life. Of course
> << Just
> getting out of bed and facing the challenges of the day is monumental for
> me.
> I know it is not my place to change Jimmie, and I respect his wounded soul.
>
> But how do I keep doing this? >>
>
> Perhaps by not adding yet another child.
>
we're going to adopt her! In all that time, Jimmie has never once directed
his anger at her, and she is supervised by myself or my husband at all times.
And my marriage is just fine. We're coming up on 25 years.
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: sognokids@...<<Kayla has been with us for nearly two years, most of her life. Of course
we're going to adopt her! In all that time, Jimmie has never once directed
his anger at her, and she is supervised by myself or my husband at all
times.
And my marriage is just fine. We're coming up on 25 years.>>
Whoo hoo, conga rats on that one!!! I think you just get frustrated at times
maybe wanting to be able to do more than you are and possibly wanting things
to get better faster. A very natural reaction when a parent sees a child
hurting.
I think you are certainly on the right track in watching and making sure the
anger isn't directed at the other children. I think the karate idea was a
good one and also again, counseling. You never said if that was being done
and I think it is important. You can do this. You are doing it and I think
it's wonderful that you have the patience and love to offer.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN!
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[email protected]
On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:22:19 EST sognokids@... writes:
bedroom, snuck out at night, swore at my foster mom. My foster brother
was a year and a half younger, small for his age, shy, wanting to please.
He had no friends, but he was a nice kid, and we got along.
When twenty dollars went missing from my foster mom's purse, she accused
me, and even though I didn't take it, she was never convinced.When my
foster brother and my friend and I were in his room once with the door
shut, talking about school and stuff, she burst in and told me I could
never be with him with the door shut. I never hurt him. I never stole
from her. I liketo think that maybe hanging out with outspoken me was
part of the reason he finally decided to tell the foster mom that the old
guy living next door had been molesting him for over a year. Afterwards,
I told him I'd kick the guy's butt if he tried anything again, and showed
him my knife.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this - I guess I wish you'd been my
foster mom, and I want to thank you for trying, and assure you that it
matters.
With all that said, you do need to take care of yourself, and to take
care of Colton and Kayla. It is easy to let a kid like Jimmie suck up all
your energy and leave you dry, because he clearly needs so much. You just
can't be the only one giving to him, and part of modeling how to be
healthy includes modeling how to take care of your own needs. Sometimes,
I think parents need to make a choice that isn't the best thing for their
child, because it is necessary for their own mental health. Do you gte
out once a week or more and just do something for you - take a ceramics
class, join a choir, sit in the woods and read? You need that, and Jimmie
needs you to have that so you'll be able to be there for him.
Are there services available through the agency he was placed through?
Things like counseling, respite, maybe a Big Brother or something similar
for him? Do you have friends who can take him for a while? Or friends who
can take the other two, so you can just be with him?
How is school for him? I taught ED/BD kids, and I was the outlier because
I didn't do a strict behavior mod thing - I focused on building
relationships and using them as a stepping stone to growth and change. If
he's getting behavior mod and points and levels all day, he may need to
act out at home to undue the damage from school.
Dar
> My question is a selfish one, and it is for me. I am exhaustedmanipulated on
> from parenting this child. I am discouraged. I have been
> emotionally and physically battered by him. I have been lied to and
> a regular basis.I was a foster kid, for a while. I was the "bad" kid - I smoked pot in my
bedroom, snuck out at night, swore at my foster mom. My foster brother
was a year and a half younger, small for his age, shy, wanting to please.
He had no friends, but he was a nice kid, and we got along.
When twenty dollars went missing from my foster mom's purse, she accused
me, and even though I didn't take it, she was never convinced.When my
foster brother and my friend and I were in his room once with the door
shut, talking about school and stuff, she burst in and told me I could
never be with him with the door shut. I never hurt him. I never stole
from her. I liketo think that maybe hanging out with outspoken me was
part of the reason he finally decided to tell the foster mom that the old
guy living next door had been molesting him for over a year. Afterwards,
I told him I'd kick the guy's butt if he tried anything again, and showed
him my knife.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this - I guess I wish you'd been my
foster mom, and I want to thank you for trying, and assure you that it
matters.
With all that said, you do need to take care of yourself, and to take
care of Colton and Kayla. It is easy to let a kid like Jimmie suck up all
your energy and leave you dry, because he clearly needs so much. You just
can't be the only one giving to him, and part of modeling how to be
healthy includes modeling how to take care of your own needs. Sometimes,
I think parents need to make a choice that isn't the best thing for their
child, because it is necessary for their own mental health. Do you gte
out once a week or more and just do something for you - take a ceramics
class, join a choir, sit in the woods and read? You need that, and Jimmie
needs you to have that so you'll be able to be there for him.
Are there services available through the agency he was placed through?
Things like counseling, respite, maybe a Big Brother or something similar
for him? Do you have friends who can take him for a while? Or friends who
can take the other two, so you can just be with him?
How is school for him? I taught ED/BD kids, and I was the outlier because
I didn't do a strict behavior mod thing - I focused on building
relationships and using them as a stepping stone to growth and change. If
he's getting behavior mod and points and levels all day, he may need to
act out at home to undue the damage from school.
Dar
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/2002 10:35:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
leschke@... writes:
if our library has it. I really appreciate this!
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
leschke@... writes:
> Welcome Carol. I don't have any ideas for helping you deal with your ownThank you very much for this suggestion. I'm going to check right now to see
> situation. But I'm just listening to a tape of the book Touching Spirit
> Bear (I think that's the title) and thought that Jimmie might like to hear
> it.
if our library has it. I really appreciate this!
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/2002 2:00:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, freeform@j
uno.com writes:
more time to recharge myself. It's easy to get swept away by life's demands,
but I am going to do better at meeting my own needs so I can continue to meet
the needs of my family. I took one step yesterday when I went back to my
beloved Unitarian church. I haven't been there in several months, but it's a
place where I can reconnect with myself and find peace.
Jimmie really needs. The counselor mostly wanted to talk to just him, and
Jimmie is a great little actor. He wasn't honest with her at all. I am
going to contact someone at my church for ideas on family counseling. And we
will be contacting friends about taking some or all of our kids. I have a
superwoman mentality where it is very difficult for me to ask for help, but I
am very aware right now of how much I need it.
uno.com writes:
> With all that said, you do need to take care of yourself, and to takeThanks for sharing your thoughts and experience, Dar. Yes, I do need to take
> care of Colton and Kayla. It is easy to let a kid like Jimmie suck up all
> your energy and leave you dry, because he clearly needs so much.
more time to recharge myself. It's easy to get swept away by life's demands,
but I am going to do better at meeting my own needs so I can continue to meet
the needs of my family. I took one step yesterday when I went back to my
beloved Unitarian church. I haven't been there in several months, but it's a
place where I can reconnect with myself and find peace.
>We had Jimmie in counseling for a while, but it wasn't the type of counseling
>
> Are there services available through the agency he was placed through?
> Things like counseling, respite, maybe a Big Brother or something similar
> for him? Do you have friends who can take him for a while? Or friends who
> can take the other two, so you can just be with him?
Jimmie really needs. The counselor mostly wanted to talk to just him, and
Jimmie is a great little actor. He wasn't honest with her at all. I am
going to contact someone at my church for ideas on family counseling. And we
will be contacting friends about taking some or all of our kids. I have a
superwoman mentality where it is very difficult for me to ask for help, but I
am very aware right now of how much I need it.
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> How is school for him?
>
> I never thought I would say this, but the past few months Jimmie has spent
> in public school have been good for him. He's happy there, but what I see
> is that he is gradually learning to take responsibility for his actions.
> We have put the responsibility for his work right on his shoulders, and he
> is making progress. He has always blamed things on someone else, but
> school is his deal and what happens is his choice. I would love the chance
> to unschool him, but frankly I believe he's where he needs to be for now.
>
> Thank you again for responding to my question. I am feeling hope return!
>
> Carol
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/2002 5:42:32 PM Central Standard Time,
sognokids@... writes:
syndrome. The adoption people never, ever told her that he had it, although
they knew. Now she's literally stuck with a child who is 18, but is the size
of an 11 yo, who has no sense of appetite and so eats all the time and steals
to do so, runs away and steals things, has no conscience, but can and has
charmed the pants off of tens of police and counselors and mental health
people his whole life. When she travels, she brings his entire file so she
can keep him from being arrested when he does his thing, because he can fool
anyone. The stories she tells would stand your hair on end, and it's a grave
injustice to her that he cannot be put in a home and cannot leave hers. He's
lucky to have her to take care of him, but he cannot appreciate that. If she
had it to do over again, she readily admits that she wouldn't, and she warns
other people about how the adoption people lied to her.
There's something about the things you said about Jimmie that remind me of my
friend's son. I only know what you say about him, of course, but it would be
in your whole family's best interest to find out everything you can about his
birth and his birth mother before you adopt him.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sognokids@... writes:
> The counselor mostly wanted to talk to just him, andI have a good friend who adopted a boy who turned out to have fetal alcohol
> Jimmie is a great little actor.
syndrome. The adoption people never, ever told her that he had it, although
they knew. Now she's literally stuck with a child who is 18, but is the size
of an 11 yo, who has no sense of appetite and so eats all the time and steals
to do so, runs away and steals things, has no conscience, but can and has
charmed the pants off of tens of police and counselors and mental health
people his whole life. When she travels, she brings his entire file so she
can keep him from being arrested when he does his thing, because he can fool
anyone. The stories she tells would stand your hair on end, and it's a grave
injustice to her that he cannot be put in a home and cannot leave hers. He's
lucky to have her to take care of him, but he cannot appreciate that. If she
had it to do over again, she readily admits that she wouldn't, and she warns
other people about how the adoption people lied to her.
There's something about the things you said about Jimmie that remind me of my
friend's son. I only know what you say about him, of course, but it would be
in your whole family's best interest to find out everything you can about his
birth and his birth mother before you adopt him.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/2002 3:56:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
tuckervill@... writes:
FAS, he certainly fits the profile. By the way, we've already adopted him,
so this is something we just need to learn to live with.
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tuckervill@... writes:
> I have a good friend who adopted a boy who turned out to have fetal alcoholYou just described Jimmie! We've suspected for a long time that Jimmie has
> syndrome. The adoption people never, ever told her that he had it,
> although
> they knew. Now she's literally stuck with a child who is 18, but is the
> size
> of an 11 yo, who has no sense of appetite and so eats all the time and
> steals
> to do so, runs away and steals things, has no conscience, but can and has
> charmed the pants off of tens of police and counselors and mental health
> people his whole life.
FAS, he certainly fits the profile. By the way, we've already adopted him,
so this is something we just need to learn to live with.
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/02 4:55:46 PM, tuckervill@... writes:
<< runs away and steals things, has no conscience, but can and has
charmed the pants off of tens of police and counselors and mental health
people his whole life. >>
My half brother exactly. When we have taken him to counselors he turns on
the charm, makes up a whole life that makes him seem sweet yet slightly
mistreated. I DO feel sorry for him, because the truth of his life is sordid
and sad, but he just makes stuff up as easily as most people breathe.
A judge met him on an outward bound trip and told all the counsellors there
they must have made a mistake, that this boy was FINE.
He had a full week's worth of charm.
He married a Mormon girl once. Her family drove them both to Utah where they
could be married legally at their young ages. On Christmas morning before
others woke up, he stole cash from his new stepmother, a truck from his new
wife's uncle, and took off.
If he ever could keep track of what he's done and if he could feel remorse,
maybe he could change. And, of course, he drinks. What chance would he have
of NOT being an alcoholic in his circumstances? Genetics and fetal alcohol
syndrome all.
Sandra
<< runs away and steals things, has no conscience, but can and has
charmed the pants off of tens of police and counselors and mental health
people his whole life. >>
My half brother exactly. When we have taken him to counselors he turns on
the charm, makes up a whole life that makes him seem sweet yet slightly
mistreated. I DO feel sorry for him, because the truth of his life is sordid
and sad, but he just makes stuff up as easily as most people breathe.
A judge met him on an outward bound trip and told all the counsellors there
they must have made a mistake, that this boy was FINE.
He had a full week's worth of charm.
He married a Mormon girl once. Her family drove them both to Utah where they
could be married legally at their young ages. On Christmas morning before
others woke up, he stole cash from his new stepmother, a truck from his new
wife's uncle, and took off.
If he ever could keep track of what he's done and if he could feel remorse,
maybe he could change. And, of course, he drinks. What chance would he have
of NOT being an alcoholic in his circumstances? Genetics and fetal alcohol
syndrome all.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/02 9:12:37 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< << runs away and steals things, has no conscience, but can and has
charmed the pants off of tens of police and counselors and mental health
people his whole life. >> >>
My brother too.
In and out of jail....had a drinking Mother also. Adopted at two years of age
and diagnosed with ADD (I always wonder if a difference could have been made
by avoiding all that crap) drugged with ritalin etc....
He has the FAS eye fold, but is tall and fairly healthy looking, when he's
not high or drinking.
He did some snuffing (is that the right word? Glue sniffing type of stuff)
that I think killed too many brain cells and I don't think he'll ever change.
It's very sad.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< << runs away and steals things, has no conscience, but can and has
charmed the pants off of tens of police and counselors and mental health
people his whole life. >> >>
My brother too.
In and out of jail....had a drinking Mother also. Adopted at two years of age
and diagnosed with ADD (I always wonder if a difference could have been made
by avoiding all that crap) drugged with ritalin etc....
He has the FAS eye fold, but is tall and fairly healthy looking, when he's
not high or drinking.
He did some snuffing (is that the right word? Glue sniffing type of stuff)
that I think killed too many brain cells and I don't think he'll ever change.
It's very sad.
Ren
[email protected]
Carol and all,
I had no intention of speaking up much on this list since I hoped to learn a lot and listen but I had to say here that if you have a child with this exact description and possibly the addition of frequent broken bones, small jaw line so there is no room for their permanent teeth, low muscle tone, extra weight around the mid-torso, most have a cherubic or very young look and a dozen other things that you could be dealing with Growth Hormone Defiency. GHD is a serious problem that needs treatment so be sure and have your child checked out if you see the need. GHD can have serious effects on the cardiovascular system and decreases bone density if not treated. Emotional/Behavioral symptoms plus learning problems are part of all of this but you won't hear a lot of US doctors admit this part, plus the child is small and doesn't neccesarily have to be "off the charts". My 13 yr old has severe GHD and we spent years going down the wrong path with him.
Just had to speak up, in case, it helped you Carol, or someone else.
If anyone needs more info -- http://www.magicfoundation.org is a good place to start.
It was really strange to read an exact description of my son. Some days he is such a charmer and other days we wonder if he has a conscience at all. It's a challenge!
Rhonda
------- Orginal Message ---------
Digest Reader free to current and future Red Castle customers
http://www.red-castle.com
I had no intention of speaking up much on this list since I hoped to learn a lot and listen but I had to say here that if you have a child with this exact description and possibly the addition of frequent broken bones, small jaw line so there is no room for their permanent teeth, low muscle tone, extra weight around the mid-torso, most have a cherubic or very young look and a dozen other things that you could be dealing with Growth Hormone Defiency. GHD is a serious problem that needs treatment so be sure and have your child checked out if you see the need. GHD can have serious effects on the cardiovascular system and decreases bone density if not treated. Emotional/Behavioral symptoms plus learning problems are part of all of this but you won't hear a lot of US doctors admit this part, plus the child is small and doesn't neccesarily have to be "off the charts". My 13 yr old has severe GHD and we spent years going down the wrong path with him.
Just had to speak up, in case, it helped you Carol, or someone else.
If anyone needs more info -- http://www.magicfoundation.org is a good place to start.
It was really strange to read an exact description of my son. Some days he is such a charmer and other days we wonder if he has a conscience at all. It's a challenge!
Rhonda
------- Orginal Message ---------
>*****************************************************************
>
> In a message dated 10/28/2002 3:56:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> tuckervill@... writes:
>
>
>
> > I have a good friend who adopted a boy who turned out to have fetal alcohol
> > syndrome. The adoption people never, ever told her that he had it,
> > although
> > they knew. Now she's literally stuck with a child who is 18, but is the
> > size
> > of an 11 yo, who has no sense of appetite and so eats all the time and
> > steals
> > to do so, runs away and steals things, has no conscience, but can and has
> > charmed the pants off of tens of police and counselors and mental health
> > people his whole life.
>
>
> You just described Jimmie! We've suspected for a long time that Jimmie has
> FAS, he certainly fits the profile. By the way, we've already adopted him,
> so this is something we just need to learn to live with.
>
>
> Carol
Digest Reader free to current and future Red Castle customers
http://www.red-castle.com
Karin
starsuncloud@... wrote:
kinds, most often aerosol cans, but sniffing glue might qualify as huffing
too. It IS very sad.
Karin
> He did some snuffing (is that the right word? Glue sniffing type of stuff)change.
> that I think killed too many brain cells and I don't think he'll ever
> It's very sad.I think it's called huffing. That's when kids sniff inhalents of various
>
> Ren
kinds, most often aerosol cans, but sniffing glue might qualify as huffing
too. It IS very sad.
Karin