Re: Digest Number 311
Kelly Thielen
Hello,
I am on digest mode of this list, and have not been active on the list
either, for some time, due to time constraints. I am writing now to ask
for some much needed understanding and support(help?).
Something happened yesterday, that made me realize my need for support,
which will require a bit of background information, so here it is:
I live in WA state, and I have been homeschooling my 2 children(ages 8 &
6) for 2+years now. Unschooling is an informed lifestyle choice I have
made for my family. I am a very capable single mother, on a limited
income(disability). My children's father is not, and never has been
involved in their lives. They do have male role models, and their
absent biological father is not a problem or an issue in my life or my
children's at this time.
I also have Bipolar disorder(otherwise known as manic depression), a
very serious, potentially life threatening(a shocking 15-20% of
untreated bipolar sufferers commit suicide), incurable, but highly
treatable(medication called mood stabilizers, are a must for this
illness) neurobiological disorder of the brain, which affects mood,
behavior, and thoughts. It is also highly genetic and happens to run in
both sides of my family(and possibly my children's paternal line as
well). I had childhood onset type(even more highly genetic) of bipolar
disorder, as did my maternal grandfather and a maternal uncle. My
extended family, on both sides, is riddled with "mental
illness"(paternal grandmother & grandfather, my own brother & my
father). As a result of all of this, I have educated myself about
neurobioligical brain disorders(otherwise called "mental illnesses"),
their symptoms, treatment, etc., and continue to do so.
My son(age 8.5 yrs.), who is very intelligent, smart, and wonderful &
sweet, has been showing signs of A.D.H.D. since birth, basicly, nothing
for which I am too concerned about other than the fact that ADD is often
seen in children prior to onset of bipolar symptoms(a precursor sign).
Last year, I noticed some changes in my sons mood and behavior, which
had me concerned(he seemed depressed for about 2 weeks). Knowing what I
know about Bipolar disorder and that it runs in my family, I chose to
speak to his doctor about my concerns at that time(last spring), who was
hesitant to refer me to a specialist, nonetheless I insisted upon a
referral. I could not get him in at that time, since the doctor in the
next town refused to see him, and we did not have a psychiatrist in our
town then.
We now have one (her specialty is even child psychiatry), she works at
our community mental health facility, who is also my own psychiatrist,
and my prescribing physician. My sons doctor recently referred him to
her, and yesterday was his appointment.
I went to this appointment, expecting to address my sons' mood symptoms
and my concerns about his inheriting the family propensity for this
illness, particularly childhood onset bipolar disorder, and what I can
and can't do about that. Like what can I do to help my son deal with
his emotions, what signs should I look for, when to seek treatment if
and when...., NOT to get him on medication(I am not even considering
that as an option at this time), for ADD or anything else. I have been
told, and have read again and again, in my research on this topic, that
it is best to have a child seen as soon at the first sign of symptoms.
I have suspected for sometime with my son(he is so much like I was in
everyway-and so different from my daughter). I just wanted some
professional advice/opinion, a professional to hear my concerns,etc.,
I just can't believe what I actually got instead and I am infuriated by
it. I am also very confused, because she is my own doctor(my new pdoc),
and I don't want my feelings concerning this to interfere with my
developing relationship with her in that arena(because I need her to
treat me, she is the only pdoc nearby), right now, but perhaps that is
being unrealistic.
Anyway, my son's appt. was for an hour, and she spent the first part of
that time talking to him, while I was in the room, most of it talking to
me privately while he played in the waiting room, and about 3 minutes
speaking to him privately. When asked about school, he told her he was
homeschooling. He is kind of shy of strangers, so he was not real
forthcoming with her, and kept saying "i don't know" a lot. During the
time she spent alone with me talking about my son, she asked me why I
was homeschooling my kids. I told her it is a lifestyle choice I have
made, and something I thought about doing since Skyler was a baby.
(It's not like something happened to make me decide this or that it was
a sudden decision, you know?.) She kept asking me questions like what
grade is he in(I said "he would be in 3rd grade")?, if I knew what grade
level he was at(I said "not really" and was oviously not too concerned
about it)?, and if we use a curriculum("no, we do not")?, and what about
testing, etc.? I was really caught off guard by this line of
questioning, I mean I took my son to her because of my concerns about
him having symptoms of a mood disorder!!!??? How in the hell does this
have to do with curriculum and testing and grade level? I am just so
angry about this, and I feel I was discriminated against, although I am
not sure why. She obviously doens't understand about homeschooling,
unschooling, or my decision to do so, and I certainly can't explain that
to her in a nutshell in less than an hour! But, I also felt
discriminated against because of my having bipolar disorder and because
I am a single parent. She also asked lots of questions about his
father, etc., She asked Skyler to list all the members of his family,
who lives in his house, etc, and then she said "what about your Dad?"
and he said "I don't have a Dad." She seemed very concerned about this,
but the fact is that he doesn't have a Dad, and it doens't bother him or
me(but it did bother her, it seems she didn't like his answer). I have
told him about his biological father as he has asked, but he is just not
very concerned with that. I'm sure he will ask more questions as he
matures. Once again, other than her asking for genetic purposes, I see
no point for her concern on this matter.
If you have followed me this far, please keep reading, because this is
the important part of my story. Now, get this: by middle of our
converstation and her questioning, she "professionally recommends" to
me, that I enroll my son in p.s., if not full-time, then part-time,
because she says even though kids may not want to go to school all day,
for some kids, it is actually good for them(even if they don't want to),
because they get to be around other kids and develop relationships with
other adults,etc., AND because she can't really diagnose him as ADD(i
wasn't asking her to) if he's not in school, since the way that she
usually does that is to send forms/diagnostic tests, etc., for the
schools/teachers. I was so shocked I could barely respond! She could
see I was not pleased with what she had to say, and I just told her
plain and simple, that I was not even considering putting my children in
ps at this time, that this was not an issue at all with me. She asked
if I ever planned to, and I told her if my kids ever decided they really
wanted to go to school, then they would go(they definately do not want
to now, I know this, and they know they can if they want). I also made
it clear to her my ONLY reason for concern about "testing" is because it
is required by law, but not until 4th grade(am I right?). She was
trying to tell me testing/grade level, etc., was important so he could
"graduate" from h.s.(???) and go to college. My God, who is this woman,
and what does any of this have to do with why I took him there? I feel
like I am in the twilight zone here or something, haha! After her
continual questioning and focusing on this "issue", I told her my son
reads way beyond his grade level(he can read anything he wants to read,
and does all the time).
So, I left there with her unappreciated and unasked for advice on
school, and that is it, basicly. What a joke!
Finally, she spoke to d.s. privately for a couple of minutes, and when
we left I asked him what she said, he told me that she asked him if he
thought he would like to go back to school or something to that
affect!!!!
What, if anything, should I do about this? Is this sort of thing to be
expected from a psychiatrist? I am just so shocked. Maybe I am living
in a bubble and this is common discrimination. Do the rest of you deal
with this sort of nonsense? If so, how do you deal with it?
Thanks to all who read this whole thing, and thanks in advance to all
who respond. This has really upset me and I feel so alone right now.
Kelly
I am on digest mode of this list, and have not been active on the list
either, for some time, due to time constraints. I am writing now to ask
for some much needed understanding and support(help?).
Something happened yesterday, that made me realize my need for support,
which will require a bit of background information, so here it is:
I live in WA state, and I have been homeschooling my 2 children(ages 8 &
6) for 2+years now. Unschooling is an informed lifestyle choice I have
made for my family. I am a very capable single mother, on a limited
income(disability). My children's father is not, and never has been
involved in their lives. They do have male role models, and their
absent biological father is not a problem or an issue in my life or my
children's at this time.
I also have Bipolar disorder(otherwise known as manic depression), a
very serious, potentially life threatening(a shocking 15-20% of
untreated bipolar sufferers commit suicide), incurable, but highly
treatable(medication called mood stabilizers, are a must for this
illness) neurobiological disorder of the brain, which affects mood,
behavior, and thoughts. It is also highly genetic and happens to run in
both sides of my family(and possibly my children's paternal line as
well). I had childhood onset type(even more highly genetic) of bipolar
disorder, as did my maternal grandfather and a maternal uncle. My
extended family, on both sides, is riddled with "mental
illness"(paternal grandmother & grandfather, my own brother & my
father). As a result of all of this, I have educated myself about
neurobioligical brain disorders(otherwise called "mental illnesses"),
their symptoms, treatment, etc., and continue to do so.
My son(age 8.5 yrs.), who is very intelligent, smart, and wonderful &
sweet, has been showing signs of A.D.H.D. since birth, basicly, nothing
for which I am too concerned about other than the fact that ADD is often
seen in children prior to onset of bipolar symptoms(a precursor sign).
Last year, I noticed some changes in my sons mood and behavior, which
had me concerned(he seemed depressed for about 2 weeks). Knowing what I
know about Bipolar disorder and that it runs in my family, I chose to
speak to his doctor about my concerns at that time(last spring), who was
hesitant to refer me to a specialist, nonetheless I insisted upon a
referral. I could not get him in at that time, since the doctor in the
next town refused to see him, and we did not have a psychiatrist in our
town then.
We now have one (her specialty is even child psychiatry), she works at
our community mental health facility, who is also my own psychiatrist,
and my prescribing physician. My sons doctor recently referred him to
her, and yesterday was his appointment.
I went to this appointment, expecting to address my sons' mood symptoms
and my concerns about his inheriting the family propensity for this
illness, particularly childhood onset bipolar disorder, and what I can
and can't do about that. Like what can I do to help my son deal with
his emotions, what signs should I look for, when to seek treatment if
and when...., NOT to get him on medication(I am not even considering
that as an option at this time), for ADD or anything else. I have been
told, and have read again and again, in my research on this topic, that
it is best to have a child seen as soon at the first sign of symptoms.
I have suspected for sometime with my son(he is so much like I was in
everyway-and so different from my daughter). I just wanted some
professional advice/opinion, a professional to hear my concerns,etc.,
I just can't believe what I actually got instead and I am infuriated by
it. I am also very confused, because she is my own doctor(my new pdoc),
and I don't want my feelings concerning this to interfere with my
developing relationship with her in that arena(because I need her to
treat me, she is the only pdoc nearby), right now, but perhaps that is
being unrealistic.
Anyway, my son's appt. was for an hour, and she spent the first part of
that time talking to him, while I was in the room, most of it talking to
me privately while he played in the waiting room, and about 3 minutes
speaking to him privately. When asked about school, he told her he was
homeschooling. He is kind of shy of strangers, so he was not real
forthcoming with her, and kept saying "i don't know" a lot. During the
time she spent alone with me talking about my son, she asked me why I
was homeschooling my kids. I told her it is a lifestyle choice I have
made, and something I thought about doing since Skyler was a baby.
(It's not like something happened to make me decide this or that it was
a sudden decision, you know?.) She kept asking me questions like what
grade is he in(I said "he would be in 3rd grade")?, if I knew what grade
level he was at(I said "not really" and was oviously not too concerned
about it)?, and if we use a curriculum("no, we do not")?, and what about
testing, etc.? I was really caught off guard by this line of
questioning, I mean I took my son to her because of my concerns about
him having symptoms of a mood disorder!!!??? How in the hell does this
have to do with curriculum and testing and grade level? I am just so
angry about this, and I feel I was discriminated against, although I am
not sure why. She obviously doens't understand about homeschooling,
unschooling, or my decision to do so, and I certainly can't explain that
to her in a nutshell in less than an hour! But, I also felt
discriminated against because of my having bipolar disorder and because
I am a single parent. She also asked lots of questions about his
father, etc., She asked Skyler to list all the members of his family,
who lives in his house, etc, and then she said "what about your Dad?"
and he said "I don't have a Dad." She seemed very concerned about this,
but the fact is that he doesn't have a Dad, and it doens't bother him or
me(but it did bother her, it seems she didn't like his answer). I have
told him about his biological father as he has asked, but he is just not
very concerned with that. I'm sure he will ask more questions as he
matures. Once again, other than her asking for genetic purposes, I see
no point for her concern on this matter.
If you have followed me this far, please keep reading, because this is
the important part of my story. Now, get this: by middle of our
converstation and her questioning, she "professionally recommends" to
me, that I enroll my son in p.s., if not full-time, then part-time,
because she says even though kids may not want to go to school all day,
for some kids, it is actually good for them(even if they don't want to),
because they get to be around other kids and develop relationships with
other adults,etc., AND because she can't really diagnose him as ADD(i
wasn't asking her to) if he's not in school, since the way that she
usually does that is to send forms/diagnostic tests, etc., for the
schools/teachers. I was so shocked I could barely respond! She could
see I was not pleased with what she had to say, and I just told her
plain and simple, that I was not even considering putting my children in
ps at this time, that this was not an issue at all with me. She asked
if I ever planned to, and I told her if my kids ever decided they really
wanted to go to school, then they would go(they definately do not want
to now, I know this, and they know they can if they want). I also made
it clear to her my ONLY reason for concern about "testing" is because it
is required by law, but not until 4th grade(am I right?). She was
trying to tell me testing/grade level, etc., was important so he could
"graduate" from h.s.(???) and go to college. My God, who is this woman,
and what does any of this have to do with why I took him there? I feel
like I am in the twilight zone here or something, haha! After her
continual questioning and focusing on this "issue", I told her my son
reads way beyond his grade level(he can read anything he wants to read,
and does all the time).
So, I left there with her unappreciated and unasked for advice on
school, and that is it, basicly. What a joke!
Finally, she spoke to d.s. privately for a couple of minutes, and when
we left I asked him what she said, he told me that she asked him if he
thought he would like to go back to school or something to that
affect!!!!
What, if anything, should I do about this? Is this sort of thing to be
expected from a psychiatrist? I am just so shocked. Maybe I am living
in a bubble and this is common discrimination. Do the rest of you deal
with this sort of nonsense? If so, how do you deal with it?
Thanks to all who read this whole thing, and thanks in advance to all
who respond. This has really upset me and I feel so alone right now.
Kelly
A. Yates
I would say first.... Trust yourself and your instincts when it comes to
your child and his possible diagnosis.
Second.... GET A DIFFERENT DR! What a jerk! (Sorry)
Ann
your child and his possible diagnosis.
Second.... GET A DIFFERENT DR! What a jerk! (Sorry)
Ann
June Hodge
Hello Kelly,
Whereabouts in WA are you? I'm in Bremerton.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Thielen <kellylyn@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 311
Whereabouts in WA are you? I'm in Bremerton.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Thielen <kellylyn@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 311
>From: Kelly Thielen <kellylyn@...>
>
>Hello,
>I am on digest mode of this list, and have not been active on the list
>either, for some time, due to time constraints. I am writing now to ask
>for some much needed understanding and support(help?).
>
>Something happened yesterday, that made me realize my need for support,
>which will require a bit of background information, so here it is:
>
>I live in WA state, and I have been homeschooling my 2 children(ages 8 &
>6) for 2+years now. Unschooling is an informed lifestyle choice I have
>made for my family. I am a very capable single mother, on a limited
>income(disability). My children's father is not, and never has been
>involved in their lives. They do have male role models, and their
>absent biological father is not a problem or an issue in my life or my
>children's at this time.
>
>I also have Bipolar disorder(otherwise known as manic depression), a
>very serious, potentially life threatening(a shocking 15-20% of
>untreated bipolar sufferers commit suicide), incurable, but highly
>treatable(medication called mood stabilizers, are a must for this
>illness) neurobiological disorder of the brain, which affects mood,
>behavior, and thoughts. It is also highly genetic and happens to run in
>both sides of my family(and possibly my children's paternal line as
>well). I had childhood onset type(even more highly genetic) of bipolar
>disorder, as did my maternal grandfather and a maternal uncle. My
>extended family, on both sides, is riddled with "mental
>illness"(paternal grandmother & grandfather, my own brother & my
>father). As a result of all of this, I have educated myself about
>neurobioligical brain disorders(otherwise called "mental illnesses"),
>their symptoms, treatment, etc., and continue to do so.
>
>My son(age 8.5 yrs.), who is very intelligent, smart, and wonderful &
>sweet, has been showing signs of A.D.H.D. since birth, basicly, nothing
>for which I am too concerned about other than the fact that ADD is often
>seen in children prior to onset of bipolar symptoms(a precursor sign).
>Last year, I noticed some changes in my sons mood and behavior, which
>had me concerned(he seemed depressed for about 2 weeks). Knowing what I
>know about Bipolar disorder and that it runs in my family, I chose to
>speak to his doctor about my concerns at that time(last spring), who was
>hesitant to refer me to a specialist, nonetheless I insisted upon a
>referral. I could not get him in at that time, since the doctor in the
>next town refused to see him, and we did not have a psychiatrist in our
>town then.
>
>We now have one (her specialty is even child psychiatry), she works at
>our community mental health facility, who is also my own psychiatrist,
>and my prescribing physician. My sons doctor recently referred him to
>her, and yesterday was his appointment.
>
>I went to this appointment, expecting to address my sons' mood symptoms
>and my concerns about his inheriting the family propensity for this
>illness, particularly childhood onset bipolar disorder, and what I can
>and can't do about that. Like what can I do to help my son deal with
>his emotions, what signs should I look for, when to seek treatment if
>and when...., NOT to get him on medication(I am not even considering
>that as an option at this time), for ADD or anything else. I have been
>told, and have read again and again, in my research on this topic, that
>it is best to have a child seen as soon at the first sign of symptoms.
>I have suspected for sometime with my son(he is so much like I was in
>everyway-and so different from my daughter). I just wanted some
>professional advice/opinion, a professional to hear my concerns,etc.,
>
>I just can't believe what I actually got instead and I am infuriated by
>it. I am also very confused, because she is my own doctor(my new pdoc),
>and I don't want my feelings concerning this to interfere with my
>developing relationship with her in that arena(because I need her to
>treat me, she is the only pdoc nearby), right now, but perhaps that is
>being unrealistic.
>
>Anyway, my son's appt. was for an hour, and she spent the first part of
>that time talking to him, while I was in the room, most of it talking to
>me privately while he played in the waiting room, and about 3 minutes
>speaking to him privately. When asked about school, he told her he was
>homeschooling. He is kind of shy of strangers, so he was not real
>forthcoming with her, and kept saying "i don't know" a lot. During the
>time she spent alone with me talking about my son, she asked me why I
>was homeschooling my kids. I told her it is a lifestyle choice I have
>made, and something I thought about doing since Skyler was a baby.
>(It's not like something happened to make me decide this or that it was
>a sudden decision, you know?.) She kept asking me questions like what
>grade is he in(I said "he would be in 3rd grade")?, if I knew what grade
>level he was at(I said "not really" and was oviously not too concerned
>about it)?, and if we use a curriculum("no, we do not")?, and what about
>testing, etc.? I was really caught off guard by this line of
>questioning, I mean I took my son to her because of my concerns about
>him having symptoms of a mood disorder!!!??? How in the hell does this
>have to do with curriculum and testing and grade level? I am just so
>angry about this, and I feel I was discriminated against, although I am
>not sure why. She obviously doens't understand about homeschooling,
>unschooling, or my decision to do so, and I certainly can't explain that
>to her in a nutshell in less than an hour! But, I also felt
>discriminated against because of my having bipolar disorder and because
>I am a single parent. She also asked lots of questions about his
>father, etc., She asked Skyler to list all the members of his family,
>who lives in his house, etc, and then she said "what about your Dad?"
>and he said "I don't have a Dad." She seemed very concerned about this,
>but the fact is that he doesn't have a Dad, and it doens't bother him or
>me(but it did bother her, it seems she didn't like his answer). I have
>told him about his biological father as he has asked, but he is just not
>very concerned with that. I'm sure he will ask more questions as he
>matures. Once again, other than her asking for genetic purposes, I see
>no point for her concern on this matter.
>
>If you have followed me this far, please keep reading, because this is
>the important part of my story. Now, get this: by middle of our
>converstation and her questioning, she "professionally recommends" to
>me, that I enroll my son in p.s., if not full-time, then part-time,
>because she says even though kids may not want to go to school all day,
>for some kids, it is actually good for them(even if they don't want to),
>because they get to be around other kids and develop relationships with
>other adults,etc., AND because she can't really diagnose him as ADD(i
>wasn't asking her to) if he's not in school, since the way that she
>usually does that is to send forms/diagnostic tests, etc., for the
>schools/teachers. I was so shocked I could barely respond! She could
>see I was not pleased with what she had to say, and I just told her
>plain and simple, that I was not even considering putting my children in
>ps at this time, that this was not an issue at all with me. She asked
>if I ever planned to, and I told her if my kids ever decided they really
>wanted to go to school, then they would go(they definately do not want
>to now, I know this, and they know they can if they want). I also made
>it clear to her my ONLY reason for concern about "testing" is because it
>is required by law, but not until 4th grade(am I right?). She was
>trying to tell me testing/grade level, etc., was important so he could
>"graduate" from h.s.(???) and go to college. My God, who is this woman,
>and what does any of this have to do with why I took him there? I feel
>like I am in the twilight zone here or something, haha! After her
>continual questioning and focusing on this "issue", I told her my son
>reads way beyond his grade level(he can read anything he wants to read,
>and does all the time).
>
>So, I left there with her unappreciated and unasked for advice on
>school, and that is it, basicly. What a joke!
>Finally, she spoke to d.s. privately for a couple of minutes, and when
>we left I asked him what she said, he told me that she asked him if he
>thought he would like to go back to school or something to that
>affect!!!!
>
>What, if anything, should I do about this? Is this sort of thing to be
>expected from a psychiatrist? I am just so shocked. Maybe I am living
>in a bubble and this is common discrimination. Do the rest of you deal
>with this sort of nonsense? If so, how do you deal with it?
>
>Thanks to all who read this whole thing, and thanks in advance to all
>who respond. This has really upset me and I feel so alone right now.
>
>Kelly
>
>>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
Tracy Oldfield
>____________________________________________________________________________
___
>____________________________________________________________________________
___
>society
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:07:33 +0000
> From: Thad Martin <tmartin@...>
> Subject: Re: CNN - As college costs rise, loans hit record high -...
>
> hi,
>
> i think the hardest part would be getting a job and a client base. as a
> we really rely on those 'pieces of paper' to help us evaluate the qualityof the
> persons knowledge in the field in which we are hiring them.my dh is an accountant, not qualified, works for small businesses, can't do
>
> -susan
>
auditing but doesn't want to. Took us a while to work up a client base, but
we're pretty much at saturation point without taking on staff or farming the
kids out so I can work :-) helped that he got a regular job (on s/e basis)
when he went self-employed and I got some temp work, but I got pg around the
same time, so we needed to.
It can be done, I know over here one doesn't have to go to Uni to be a
lawyer, but usually one works up through a solicitor's office.
Tracy
Susan and Theodore
Ok so I am responding and I left the whole message down there...hope that is
OK!
I had a similar problem...but it was with an ER doctor....and let me tell
you---it usually ends in Child Services getting involved---hence I NEVER
take the kids to the DRS except once a year and then I pretend that I am a
moron and they let me be!
You cannot make people "understand"---they DONT want to --it is my feelings
that if suddenly they let themselves see the light then they would have to
see all that is wrong in their world---OK yeah I know I am seeing it all
from my perspective but HEY when I challenge them to prove their side of the
story..........I get nothing!!...Anyways--so I took the baby to the doctors
ER cause his "doctor" could not see him---He was leaking fluid from his ear
(I was freaking out because none of my 6 children ever had this type of
infection)!--the doctor starts questioning my WHOLE belief system "you are
strictly breastfeeding--he was only 6 months--shhh don't tell he is a year
and he almost still strictly breastfeeds---YOU don't have him
vaccinated...Homebirth and on and on--I was so upset and then she goes on to
tell me that I have to give my child IBUPROPHEN (SP I am sure) and I was
like NO WAY--you could tell they wanted to take my baby--they had all of the
hospital administration there in the room!--I said NO to the ibupro and they
were PISSED---So I had to go outside and call HUBBY (cell phone not allowed
in Hosp)--and they say to me you have to leave your child in here (I was
LIKE no way---like I am some moron (ok I act like on so they leave me
alone--but it wasn't working)...)--So my very BIG hubby comes and they let
me take the baby home and TADA children and youth come and they have this
whole paper FULL of lies--i.e.---the baby was VERY dirty and I said that I
would not treat him ETC...And this investigation went on for months--the
baby kept having recurrent ear infection---the second round of antibiotics
made him VERY sick after two doses---I don't use antibiotics and so I quit
all the medicine and got some cool stuff (herbal) and that cleared it up!!
So I finally had to write them a letter and say that Well I told them to FO
nicely
AND they did and to this day I ignore them and tell them to get a warrant
etc....It works!
But anyways, I know that feeling because my doctor that I use is affiliated
with them and he uses the same hosp etc...and he has a strong relationship
with C & Y and he looks at me strangely and so does the receptionist
etc....BUT I have to use them---I have the low income health insurance...AND
I just say to myself that I am doing what I know is good for my children,
but I do want to bawl my eyes out sometimes and I feel like the whole world
is working against me, but I think I know how you feel---like you can't
choose someone who would sympathize---well at least understand a little
I am sorry this happened to you, it is stressful and then you don't even get
the treatment you want!
The whole time that the DR was examining my child I kept saying "are you
going to treat my child"
UGH-----
Susan--Good luck---
OK!
I had a similar problem...but it was with an ER doctor....and let me tell
you---it usually ends in Child Services getting involved---hence I NEVER
take the kids to the DRS except once a year and then I pretend that I am a
moron and they let me be!
You cannot make people "understand"---they DONT want to --it is my feelings
that if suddenly they let themselves see the light then they would have to
see all that is wrong in their world---OK yeah I know I am seeing it all
from my perspective but HEY when I challenge them to prove their side of the
story..........I get nothing!!...Anyways--so I took the baby to the doctors
ER cause his "doctor" could not see him---He was leaking fluid from his ear
(I was freaking out because none of my 6 children ever had this type of
infection)!--the doctor starts questioning my WHOLE belief system "you are
strictly breastfeeding--he was only 6 months--shhh don't tell he is a year
and he almost still strictly breastfeeds---YOU don't have him
vaccinated...Homebirth and on and on--I was so upset and then she goes on to
tell me that I have to give my child IBUPROPHEN (SP I am sure) and I was
like NO WAY--you could tell they wanted to take my baby--they had all of the
hospital administration there in the room!--I said NO to the ibupro and they
were PISSED---So I had to go outside and call HUBBY (cell phone not allowed
in Hosp)--and they say to me you have to leave your child in here (I was
LIKE no way---like I am some moron (ok I act like on so they leave me
alone--but it wasn't working)...)--So my very BIG hubby comes and they let
me take the baby home and TADA children and youth come and they have this
whole paper FULL of lies--i.e.---the baby was VERY dirty and I said that I
would not treat him ETC...And this investigation went on for months--the
baby kept having recurrent ear infection---the second round of antibiotics
made him VERY sick after two doses---I don't use antibiotics and so I quit
all the medicine and got some cool stuff (herbal) and that cleared it up!!
So I finally had to write them a letter and say that Well I told them to FO
nicely
AND they did and to this day I ignore them and tell them to get a warrant
etc....It works!
But anyways, I know that feeling because my doctor that I use is affiliated
with them and he uses the same hosp etc...and he has a strong relationship
with C & Y and he looks at me strangely and so does the receptionist
etc....BUT I have to use them---I have the low income health insurance...AND
I just say to myself that I am doing what I know is good for my children,
but I do want to bawl my eyes out sometimes and I feel like the whole world
is working against me, but I think I know how you feel---like you can't
choose someone who would sympathize---well at least understand a little
I am sorry this happened to you, it is stressful and then you don't even get
the treatment you want!
The whole time that the DR was examining my child I kept saying "are you
going to treat my child"
UGH-----
Susan--Good luck---
----- Original Message -----
From: Kelly Thielen <kellylyn@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 311
> From: Kelly Thielen <kellylyn@...>
>
> Hello,
> I am on digest mode of this list, and have not been active on the list
> either, for some time, due to time constraints. I am writing now to ask
> for some much needed understanding and support(help?).
>
> Something happened yesterday, that made me realize my need for support,
> which will require a bit of background information, so here it is:
>
> I live in WA state, and I have been homeschooling my 2 children(ages 8 &
> 6) for 2+years now. Unschooling is an informed lifestyle choice I have
> made for my family. I am a very capable single mother, on a limited
> income(disability). My children's father is not, and never has been
> involved in their lives. They do have male role models, and their
> absent biological father is not a problem or an issue in my life or my
> children's at this time.
>
> I also have Bipolar disorder(otherwise known as manic depression), a
> very serious, potentially life threatening(a shocking 15-20% of
> untreated bipolar sufferers commit suicide), incurable, but highly
> treatable(medication called mood stabilizers, are a must for this
> illness) neurobiological disorder of the brain, which affects mood,
> behavior, and thoughts. It is also highly genetic and happens to run in
> both sides of my family(and possibly my children's paternal line as
> well). I had childhood onset type(even more highly genetic) of bipolar
> disorder, as did my maternal grandfather and a maternal uncle. My
> extended family, on both sides, is riddled with "mental
> illness"(paternal grandmother & grandfather, my own brother & my
> father). As a result of all of this, I have educated myself about
> neurobioligical brain disorders(otherwise called "mental illnesses"),
> their symptoms, treatment, etc., and continue to do so.
>
> My son(age 8.5 yrs.), who is very intelligent, smart, and wonderful &
> sweet, has been showing signs of A.D.H.D. since birth, basicly, nothing
> for which I am too concerned about other than the fact that ADD is often
> seen in children prior to onset of bipolar symptoms(a precursor sign).
> Last year, I noticed some changes in my sons mood and behavior, which
> had me concerned(he seemed depressed for about 2 weeks). Knowing what I
> know about Bipolar disorder and that it runs in my family, I chose to
> speak to his doctor about my concerns at that time(last spring), who was
> hesitant to refer me to a specialist, nonetheless I insisted upon a
> referral. I could not get him in at that time, since the doctor in the
> next town refused to see him, and we did not have a psychiatrist in our
> town then.
>
> We now have one (her specialty is even child psychiatry), she works at
> our community mental health facility, who is also my own psychiatrist,
> and my prescribing physician. My sons doctor recently referred him to
> her, and yesterday was his appointment.
>
> I went to this appointment, expecting to address my sons' mood symptoms
> and my concerns about his inheriting the family propensity for this
> illness, particularly childhood onset bipolar disorder, and what I can
> and can't do about that. Like what can I do to help my son deal with
> his emotions, what signs should I look for, when to seek treatment if
> and when...., NOT to get him on medication(I am not even considering
> that as an option at this time), for ADD or anything else. I have been
> told, and have read again and again, in my research on this topic, that
> it is best to have a child seen as soon at the first sign of symptoms.
> I have suspected for sometime with my son(he is so much like I was in
> everyway-and so different from my daughter). I just wanted some
> professional advice/opinion, a professional to hear my concerns,etc.,
>
> I just can't believe what I actually got instead and I am infuriated by
> it. I am also very confused, because she is my own doctor(my new pdoc),
> and I don't want my feelings concerning this to interfere with my
> developing relationship with her in that arena(because I need her to
> treat me, she is the only pdoc nearby), right now, but perhaps that is
> being unrealistic.
>
> Anyway, my son's appt. was for an hour, and she spent the first part of
> that time talking to him, while I was in the room, most of it talking to
> me privately while he played in the waiting room, and about 3 minutes
> speaking to him privately. When asked about school, he told her he was
> homeschooling. He is kind of shy of strangers, so he was not real
> forthcoming with her, and kept saying "i don't know" a lot. During the
> time she spent alone with me talking about my son, she asked me why I
> was homeschooling my kids. I told her it is a lifestyle choice I have
> made, and something I thought about doing since Skyler was a baby.
> (It's not like something happened to make me decide this or that it was
> a sudden decision, you know?.) She kept asking me questions like what
> grade is he in(I said "he would be in 3rd grade")?, if I knew what grade
> level he was at(I said "not really" and was oviously not too concerned
> about it)?, and if we use a curriculum("no, we do not")?, and what about
> testing, etc.? I was really caught off guard by this line of
> questioning, I mean I took my son to her because of my concerns about
> him having symptoms of a mood disorder!!!??? How in the hell does this
> have to do with curriculum and testing and grade level? I am just so
> angry about this, and I feel I was discriminated against, although I am
> not sure why. She obviously doens't understand about homeschooling,
> unschooling, or my decision to do so, and I certainly can't explain that
> to her in a nutshell in less than an hour! But, I also felt
> discriminated against because of my having bipolar disorder and because
> I am a single parent. She also asked lots of questions about his
> father, etc., She asked Skyler to list all the members of his family,
> who lives in his house, etc, and then she said "what about your Dad?"
> and he said "I don't have a Dad." She seemed very concerned about this,
> but the fact is that he doesn't have a Dad, and it doens't bother him or
> me(but it did bother her, it seems she didn't like his answer). I have
> told him about his biological father as he has asked, but he is just not
> very concerned with that. I'm sure he will ask more questions as he
> matures. Once again, other than her asking for genetic purposes, I see
> no point for her concern on this matter.
>
> If you have followed me this far, please keep reading, because this is
> the important part of my story. Now, get this: by middle of our
> converstation and her questioning, she "professionally recommends" to
> me, that I enroll my son in p.s., if not full-time, then part-time,
> because she says even though kids may not want to go to school all day,
> for some kids, it is actually good for them(even if they don't want to),
> because they get to be around other kids and develop relationships with
> other adults,etc., AND because she can't really diagnose him as ADD(i
> wasn't asking her to) if he's not in school, since the way that she
> usually does that is to send forms/diagnostic tests, etc., for the
> schools/teachers. I was so shocked I could barely respond! She could
> see I was not pleased with what she had to say, and I just told her
> plain and simple, that I was not even considering putting my children in
> ps at this time, that this was not an issue at all with me. She asked
> if I ever planned to, and I told her if my kids ever decided they really
> wanted to go to school, then they would go(they definately do not want
> to now, I know this, and they know they can if they want). I also made
> it clear to her my ONLY reason for concern about "testing" is because it
> is required by law, but not until 4th grade(am I right?). She was
> trying to tell me testing/grade level, etc., was important so he could
> "graduate" from h.s.(???) and go to college. My God, who is this woman,
> and what does any of this have to do with why I took him there? I feel
> like I am in the twilight zone here or something, haha! After her
> continual questioning and focusing on this "issue", I told her my son
> reads way beyond his grade level(he can read anything he wants to read,
> and does all the time).
>
> So, I left there with her unappreciated and unasked for advice on
> school, and that is it, basicly. What a joke!
> Finally, she spoke to d.s. privately for a couple of minutes, and when
> we left I asked him what she said, he told me that she asked him if he
> thought he would like to go back to school or something to that
> affect!!!!
>
> What, if anything, should I do about this? Is this sort of thing to be
> expected from a psychiatrist? I am just so shocked. Maybe I am living
> in a bubble and this is common discrimination. Do the rest of you deal
> with this sort of nonsense? If so, how do you deal with it?
>
> Thanks to all who read this whole thing, and thanks in advance to all
> who respond. This has really upset me and I feel so alone right now.
>
> Kelly
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
sara woodall
> What, if anything, should I do about this? Is this sort of thing to beIf you don't find another doctor, you will have no peace, lots of
> expected from a psychiatrist? I am just so shocked. Maybe I am living
> in a bubble and this is common discrimination. Do the rest of you deal
> with this sort of nonsense? If so, how do you deal with it?
>
>
anxiety every time you have to go there, etc. Try a nearby town.
Sara