Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] list attitudes was Re: Spanking/not spanking
Myranda
Wonderfully put, Sheila. There are some truely wonderful, sweet, and honestly helpful people here on this list. Hopefully one day the nice, helpful posters and posts will outnumber the mean, hateful, and hurtful ones. But, I've been thinking.... until that time, if there's enough interest, I'd be willing to start another yahoo unschooling list - one where anyone and everyone can post without worry of getting attacked and flamed. Anyone interested can e-mail me privately. (Hope I'm not stepping on any toes, Joyce-moderator!)
Myranda
I think it's very sad that you would be so rude to a newcomer on the
list. I think it's sad that you would be intolerant of other
people's parenting practices. Even if it does give you cold chills,
there are much nicer ways to talk to people you disagree with. You
catch more flies with honey...
I don't think it's necessarily true that one can't be an unschooler
AND choose to spank. I would think that totally unschooling would
usually lead to a non-spanking position, but that's just my guess.
Not everyone gets there at the same time.
If a spanker would say to a non-spanker, "I don't want to read
anything else you have to say", they would get slammed big time.
And I've had two people tell me that my posts repulsed them, just
because I support parental rights. If I told someone who doesn't
believe in parental rights that their posts repulsed me, I would get
slammed big time.
Is it ok to be verbally mean to people because they have a different
point of view? That's not good discussion and it's not good
debating.
As far as who is disrupting the list, I don't think it's the people
who are brave enough to stick up for their right to discipline their
children according to their own consciences, I think it's the handful
of people who reply with cold meanness.
Sheila
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
I think it's very sad that you would be so rude to a newcomer on the
list. I think it's sad that you would be intolerant of other
people's parenting practices. Even if it does give you cold chills,
there are much nicer ways to talk to people you disagree with. You
catch more flies with honey...
I don't think it's necessarily true that one can't be an unschooler
AND choose to spank. I would think that totally unschooling would
usually lead to a non-spanking position, but that's just my guess.
Not everyone gets there at the same time.
If a spanker would say to a non-spanker, "I don't want to read
anything else you have to say", they would get slammed big time.
And I've had two people tell me that my posts repulsed them, just
because I support parental rights. If I told someone who doesn't
believe in parental rights that their posts repulsed me, I would get
slammed big time.
Is it ok to be verbally mean to people because they have a different
point of view? That's not good discussion and it's not good
debating.
As far as who is disrupting the list, I don't think it's the people
who are brave enough to stick up for their right to discipline their
children according to their own consciences, I think it's the handful
of people who reply with cold meanness.
Sheila
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Myranda" <myrandab@b...>
wrote:
one day the nice, helpful posters and posts will outnumber the
mean, hateful, and hurtful ones. But, I've been thinking.... until
that time, if there's enough interest, I'd be willing to start another
yahoo unschooling list - one where anyone and everyone can
post without worry of getting attacked and flamed. Anyone
interested can e-mail me privately. (Hope I'm not stepping on any
toes, Joyce-moderator!)
I think this is a marvelous idea and hope you will post the name
of the group here once you have it started. If you need any help
with starting a Yahoo Group (they're pretty self-explanatory if you
go to http://groups.yahoo.com ) just let me know, I've started a
couple in the past.
Best of luck to the new list.
Pam
wrote:
> Wonderfully put, Sheila. There are some truely wonderful,sweet, and honestly helpful people here on this list. Hopefully
one day the nice, helpful posters and posts will outnumber the
mean, hateful, and hurtful ones. But, I've been thinking.... until
that time, if there's enough interest, I'd be willing to start another
yahoo unschooling list - one where anyone and everyone can
post without worry of getting attacked and flamed. Anyone
interested can e-mail me privately. (Hope I'm not stepping on any
toes, Joyce-moderator!)
I think this is a marvelous idea and hope you will post the name
of the group here once you have it started. If you need any help
with starting a Yahoo Group (they're pretty self-explanatory if you
go to http://groups.yahoo.com ) just let me know, I've started a
couple in the past.
Best of luck to the new list.
Pam
Myranda
Thanks, Pam, I already own two private yahoo lists, so it won't take me but a few minutes to set up a new one. I may go ahead and do that tonight, everyone here is already asleep. <g>
Myranda
I think this is a marvelous idea and hope you will post the name
of the group here once you have it started. If you need any help
with starting a Yahoo Group (they're pretty self-explanatory if you
go to http://groups.yahoo.com ) just let me know, I've started a
couple in the past.
Best of luck to the new list.
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
I think this is a marvelous idea and hope you will post the name
of the group here once you have it started. If you need any help
with starting a Yahoo Group (they're pretty self-explanatory if you
go to http://groups.yahoo.com ) just let me know, I've started a
couple in the past.
Best of luck to the new list.
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
Pam. I think I love you.
Deb L
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 00:22:44 -0000 "Pam Hartley"
<pamhartley@...> writes:
Deb L
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 00:22:44 -0000 "Pam Hartley"
<pamhartley@...> writes:
> I think this is a marvelous idea and hope you will post the name
> of the group here once you have it started. If you need any help
> with starting a Yahoo Group (they're pretty self-explanatory if you
>
> go to http://groups.yahoo.com ) just let me know, I've started a
> couple in the past.
>
> Best of luck to the new list.
>
> Pam
marji
At 20:08 10/25/02 -0400, Myranda wrote:
parts. And, having been fortunate enough to have met Sandra, Ren, Joyce,
and Kelly, I can also agree with "sweet." So, I do agree with the content
of this part of your post, but not the intent. What the posters you see as
"mean" and "hurtful" lack in sweetness is more than made up several-fold in
honesty and helpfulness. I only wish you could appreciate and benefit from
that! From what I've been reading, though, and from what I remember
several weeks ago, there seems to be a tremendous amount of denial or
something that is preventing you from receiving the help that has been offered.
For my part, I wouldn't want a world (or an unschooling list) without the
amazing vision and clarity of Sandra or Ren or Pam or Tia or Joyce or Dar
or Kelly or Deb L or Patti and on and on. There are times when I read a
post by those "mean" folks and I'm just so very grateful for their ability
to stay on target! These folks are my absolute HEROES, I tell you!
Sandra raised excellent points in response to Sheila's lauded post. I know
I don't post a whole lot, but I get so much out of this list that I
sometimes feel like I ought to be paying for it.
But, each to their own, though, right? For me, I'll take gritty frankness
and blunt honesty any day! I'm not a soothsayer or sage, but I'd be mighty
surprised if there were such a list where people could post "without worry
of getting attacked or flamed."
thought frightens me!
With love,
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>There are some truely wonderful, sweet, and honestly helpful people hereYes. I agree with the "truely [sic] wonderful" and "honestly helpful"
>on this list.
parts. And, having been fortunate enough to have met Sandra, Ren, Joyce,
and Kelly, I can also agree with "sweet." So, I do agree with the content
of this part of your post, but not the intent. What the posters you see as
"mean" and "hurtful" lack in sweetness is more than made up several-fold in
honesty and helpfulness. I only wish you could appreciate and benefit from
that! From what I've been reading, though, and from what I remember
several weeks ago, there seems to be a tremendous amount of denial or
something that is preventing you from receiving the help that has been offered.
For my part, I wouldn't want a world (or an unschooling list) without the
amazing vision and clarity of Sandra or Ren or Pam or Tia or Joyce or Dar
or Kelly or Deb L or Patti and on and on. There are times when I read a
post by those "mean" folks and I'm just so very grateful for their ability
to stay on target! These folks are my absolute HEROES, I tell you!
Sandra raised excellent points in response to Sheila's lauded post. I know
I don't post a whole lot, but I get so much out of this list that I
sometimes feel like I ought to be paying for it.
But, each to their own, though, right? For me, I'll take gritty frankness
and blunt honesty any day! I'm not a soothsayer or sage, but I'd be mighty
surprised if there were such a list where people could post "without worry
of getting attacked or flamed."
>Hopefully one day the nice, helpful posters and posts will outnumber theYikes!! I can't imagine what that would actually look like, but the
>mean, hateful, and hurtful ones.
thought frightens me!
>But, I've been thinking.... until that time, if there's enough interest,Great idea, Myranda! If you do start a new list, I wish you all the best!
>I'd be willing to start another yahoo unschooling list - one where anyone
>and everyone can post without worry of getting attacked and flamed. Anyone
>interested can e-mail me privately. (Hope I'm not stepping on any toes,
>Joyce-moderator!)
>Myranda
With love,
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Marji,
I agree, I also met Kelly and Ren (and you!) and a few others at the conference and they are wonderful people. I've read and agreed with Sandra's writings for several years. I also enjoy the frankness of this list and have gotten a lot out of it. However, the name-calling, deliberate twisting of words, put-downs, and flat refusal to accept that other's have a right to hold their own views is totally against what I believe unschooling should be about. No matter if a parent spanks or believes in God or is young, they may still have valuable input to offer and they are being squashed right out of posting on this list. The atmosphere here is that if you don't fit in the "perfect parent" box or at least repent of what you do that makes you not the "perfect parent" and promise to try harder, that you're not welcome, you're stupid, and you don't care about your children. While that attitude may help some people, it turns even more away that could benefit from the ideas and philosophies that go along with unschooling.
Oh, BTW, I'm on two other lists that have 500+ members and neither of them have even a fraction of the flaming and attacking going on here. It's very possible when everyone works together as a team and helps each other.
Myranda
From: marji
Yes. I agree with the "truely [sic] wonderful" and "honestly helpful"
parts. And, having been fortunate enough to have met Sandra, Ren, Joyce,
and Kelly, I can also agree with "sweet." So, I do agree with the content
of this part of your post, but not the intent. What the posters you see as
"mean" and "hurtful" lack in sweetness is more than made up several-fold in
honesty and helpfulness. I only wish you could appreciate and benefit from
that! From what I've been reading, though, and from what I remember
several weeks ago, there seems to be a tremendous amount of denial or
something that is preventing you from receiving the help that has been offered.
For my part, I wouldn't want a world (or an unschooling list) without the
amazing vision and clarity of Sandra or Ren or Pam or Tia or Joyce or Dar
or Kelly or Deb L or Patti and on and on. There are times when I read a
post by those "mean" folks and I'm just so very grateful for their ability
to stay on target! These folks are my absolute HEROES, I tell you!
Sandra raised excellent points in response to Sheila's lauded post. I know
I don't post a whole lot, but I get so much out of this list that I
sometimes feel like I ought to be paying for it.
But, each to their own, though, right? For me, I'll take gritty frankness
and blunt honesty any day! I'm not a soothsayer or sage, but I'd be mighty
surprised if there were such a list where people could post "without worry
of getting attacked or flamed."
thought frightens me!
With love,
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I agree, I also met Kelly and Ren (and you!) and a few others at the conference and they are wonderful people. I've read and agreed with Sandra's writings for several years. I also enjoy the frankness of this list and have gotten a lot out of it. However, the name-calling, deliberate twisting of words, put-downs, and flat refusal to accept that other's have a right to hold their own views is totally against what I believe unschooling should be about. No matter if a parent spanks or believes in God or is young, they may still have valuable input to offer and they are being squashed right out of posting on this list. The atmosphere here is that if you don't fit in the "perfect parent" box or at least repent of what you do that makes you not the "perfect parent" and promise to try harder, that you're not welcome, you're stupid, and you don't care about your children. While that attitude may help some people, it turns even more away that could benefit from the ideas and philosophies that go along with unschooling.
Oh, BTW, I'm on two other lists that have 500+ members and neither of them have even a fraction of the flaming and attacking going on here. It's very possible when everyone works together as a team and helps each other.
Myranda
From: marji
Yes. I agree with the "truely [sic] wonderful" and "honestly helpful"
parts. And, having been fortunate enough to have met Sandra, Ren, Joyce,
and Kelly, I can also agree with "sweet." So, I do agree with the content
of this part of your post, but not the intent. What the posters you see as
"mean" and "hurtful" lack in sweetness is more than made up several-fold in
honesty and helpfulness. I only wish you could appreciate and benefit from
that! From what I've been reading, though, and from what I remember
several weeks ago, there seems to be a tremendous amount of denial or
something that is preventing you from receiving the help that has been offered.
For my part, I wouldn't want a world (or an unschooling list) without the
amazing vision and clarity of Sandra or Ren or Pam or Tia or Joyce or Dar
or Kelly or Deb L or Patti and on and on. There are times when I read a
post by those "mean" folks and I'm just so very grateful for their ability
to stay on target! These folks are my absolute HEROES, I tell you!
Sandra raised excellent points in response to Sheila's lauded post. I know
I don't post a whole lot, but I get so much out of this list that I
sometimes feel like I ought to be paying for it.
But, each to their own, though, right? For me, I'll take gritty frankness
and blunt honesty any day! I'm not a soothsayer or sage, but I'd be mighty
surprised if there were such a list where people could post "without worry
of getting attacked or flamed."
>Hopefully one day the nice, helpful posters and posts will outnumber theYikes!! I can't imagine what that would actually look like, but the
>mean, hateful, and hurtful ones.
thought frightens me!
>But, I've been thinking.... until that time, if there's enough interest,Great idea, Myranda! If you do start a new list, I wish you all the best!
>I'd be willing to start another yahoo unschooling list - one where anyone
>and everyone can post without worry of getting attacked and flamed. Anyone
>interested can e-mail me privately. (Hope I'm not stepping on any toes,
>Joyce-moderator!)
>Myranda
With love,
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/25/02 7:24:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
pamhartley@... writes:
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamhartley@... writes:
> I think this is a marvelous idea and hope you will post the nameKisses Pam! :o)
> of the group here once you have it started. If you need any help
> with starting a Yahoo Group (they're pretty self-explanatory if you
> go to http://groups.yahoo.com ) just let me know, I've started a
> couple in the past.
>
> Best of luck to the new list.
>
> Pam
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> Wonderfully put, Sheila. There are some truely wonderful, sweet, andhonestly helpful people here on this list. Hopefully one day the nice,
helpful posters and posts will outnumber the mean, hateful, and hurtful
ones. But, I've been thinking.... until that time, if there's enough
interest, I'd be willing to start another yahoo unschooling list - one where
anyone and everyone can post without worry of getting attacked and flamed.
Anyone interested can e-mail me privately. (Hope I'm not stepping on any
toes, Joyce-moderator!)
Seems to me that "Puddles" started a new list a number of months back for
much the same reasons. Anybody have the list info for that one? It would
save Myranda the trouble of starting her own.
Tia
Fetteroll
on 10/25/02 8:08 PM, Myranda at myrandab@... wrote:
will help people do that are always welcome! :-)
Joyce
> I'd be willing to start another yahoo unschooling list .... (Hope I'm notstepping on any toes,
> Joyce-moderator!)The list is for helping people become better unschoolers. Any resources that
will help people do that are always welcome! :-)
Joyce
Fetteroll
on 10/26/02 3:44 PM, Tia Leschke at leschke@... wrote:
It's UnschoolingFamilies. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingfamilies/
Joyce
> Seems to me that "Puddles" started a new list a number of months back forHers faded away and she finally took it down. But Bridget's is still there.
> much the same reasons. Anybody have the list info for that one? It would
> save Myranda the trouble of starting her own.
It's UnschoolingFamilies. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingfamilies/
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/26/02 5:51:21 PM, leschke@... writes:
<< Seems to me that "Puddles" started a new list a number of months back for
much the same reasons. Anybody have the list info for that one? It would
save Myranda the trouble of starting her own. >>
People need to learn on their own sometimes.
People quit that other list for the same reasons people leave this one. They
feel like an outsider, or they can't stand debate, or they want a place where
people say "lovely, lovely!" about anything.
It's certainly worth a try, though. It is possible to have a group of people
who hardly ever argue. It's probably impossible to maintain it on a list
which is open to anyone who comes along, though.
Sandra
<< Seems to me that "Puddles" started a new list a number of months back for
much the same reasons. Anybody have the list info for that one? It would
save Myranda the trouble of starting her own. >>
People need to learn on their own sometimes.
People quit that other list for the same reasons people leave this one. They
feel like an outsider, or they can't stand debate, or they want a place where
people say "lovely, lovely!" about anything.
It's certainly worth a try, though. It is possible to have a group of people
who hardly ever argue. It's probably impossible to maintain it on a list
which is open to anyone who comes along, though.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/26/02 7:39:05 PM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< Hers faded away and she finally took it down. But Bridget's is still there.
It's UnschoolingFamilies. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingfamilies/
Bridget's but not from the other, I don't think. It never got very big, and
their main topic seemed to be to badmouth this group. The best thing they
were doing was providing websites. Google does that like a charm!! <g>
Sandra
<< Hers faded away and she finally took it down. But Bridget's is still there.
It's UnschoolingFamilies. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingfamilies/
>>Oh. I had those mixed up. Same personnel? I dont know. I saw things from
Bridget's but not from the other, I don't think. It never got very big, and
their main topic seemed to be to badmouth this group. The best thing they
were doing was providing websites. Google does that like a charm!! <g>
Sandra