Thad Martin

hi,

i'm new to this group (not yet one week). to this point i've only been
skimming this thread, but the concept of witnessing is very interesting. i
grew up the youngest of 5 kids in 6 years (4 girls & 1 boy). we were, in
anyone's definition, abused, primarily through neglect but that was accompanied
by frequent unpredictable outbursts of aggressive and violent behavior. most
people want to believe that this kind of thing is perpetrated due to cold
heartedness, the need for control or disdain for the kids. my experience is
that it's actually not that personal (but it's extremely difficult not to take
it that way), that it's the parents' inability to handle the stresses of their
own choices. it's not that they don't love you or that you are not lovable,
it's just that their own needs are so big and out of control they can't even
begin to realize you have any. hence they do not model for their children how
to handle or release the natural occurring stress that build up in all our
lives but model a sort hypersensitivity which can either produce a paralyzed
sort of personality and/or a highly combative/defensive one (personally i flip
flop).

neither my father nor my mother were abused in this sense but for various
reasons they were not taught how to not put themselves at the very center of
every situation. this they did successfully model. it has been interesting to
see how each us have lived our lives and the choices we've made. what i can
confidently say is that we, my siblings and i, all have developed an emotional
instability that some of us 'witness' and some struggle to. to me this is an
invaluable skill, to be able to emotionally distance yourself so you can
release the stress, but one that has been incredibly difficult, at least for
me, to acquire and maintain because my unconscious understanding of the world
(as a scary unpredictable place where your needs are never met- an emotionally
unstable view) often overrides my conscious understanding of love and
compassion (which i experience daily with my son).

i can relate to the story about the dogs that pam sent (see below) i felt that
way by the time i was thirteen ( i was so tired i prayed to sleep forever) but
at that point my parents' own personal internal problems blocked me from their
view and i was virtually on my own (divine intervention:) but that feeling of
resignation - there is a point were you just stop desiring anything at all and
it takes a long time to get it back. but i whole heartedly believe one can
overcome anything and for me the way to do that is to be kind to yourself,
complete and nonjudgmental acceptance for you as a whole flawed person (much as
a parent naturally does for their children) . this releases stress then
perhaps some clear new understandings can come through. otherwise your life
will maintain itself just exactly the way it has been and the cycle continues.
it really does come down to making conscious choices.

-susan
austin,tx
thad (husband)
rene' (4)



> From: "Lisa Bugg" <LisaBugg@...>
>
> >
> > Yes people make choices. People's choices are shaped by their previous
> > experience. It is very difficult to make choices about which you have
> limited
> > or no experience. People struggle within the limitations of their
> experience.
> > Effective "therapy" is in fact a little world of alternate experience
> which
> > allows people to have experiences that they would never "choose" because
> those
> > experiences are outside their "box" of choices.
>
> Do not people also struggle within the limitations of their inexperience?
> And therapy would allow us to become experienced at analyzing the choices we
> didn't/couldn't make?
> >
>
> > The question of why people with similar experiences make different choices
> is
> > of course central to this discussion. I believe that people who make
> > constructive choices in spite of their painful experiences have had (to
> borrow
> > from Alice Miller) "witnesses" to what was done to them. People who
> choose
> > "destructive" roads have not had "witnesses". this is at least one piece
> of
> > the puzzle.
>
> I have read only one Alice Miller book, a compendium of stories. I think I
> understand the use of the word *witness* here, but would love for you to
> explain more anyway.
>
> My childhood was pretty rotten....when went over the edge of rotten and into
> abuse it was becuase of who *I* am/was. Another child might not have had a
> second thought about things my parents said or did. I am a better parent
> to three of my children than I am to the 4th. I struggle to parent that 4th
> child.
>
> > I am really glad that (thus far) this discussion (this time) has not
> resulted
> > in anyone going off in a snit. I find that this conversation gets people
> > really excited and often "mad as hell".
>
> Ya, know, this list has never had a long lived snit. We all seem hungry for
> more indepth discussions. Some of us have unschooled for a long time and we
> need to analyze where we've been and where we're going. The face of
> homeschooling has changed more than once in the last 20 years and the next 5
> are going to see it change yet again. Frankly, we now have some very clear
> insights that the rest of the culture should take a long hard look
> at......is they'll sit still long enough. <g>
>
> LisaKK

from: "Pam Hartley" <pamhartley@...>
>WARNING TO GENTLER SOULS, READ NO FURTHER.
>
>They took a series of dogs and put them on a metal plate in a square area
>with no exits. They began shocking the dogs (electrically) and of course
>each dog would run around desperately trying to get off the hot plate, to
no
>avail. The dogs tried *really* hard, including spectacular feats of
jumping,
>digging, etc. No way out.
>
>Next day, they took the same dogs, did the same thing, same response.
>
>At some point (I don't remember how many days), they would put the dogs
into
>the room, and the dogs would simply sit down or lay down, utterly defeated,
>and let themselves be shocked without resistance.
>
>The day after each dog "gave up", they put the dog in the square room, but
>this time, major difference: they left a CLEAR AND OBVIOUS EXIT (the same
>door they would take the dogs in and out every day to get into the room).
>
>None of the dogs, when the electrical shocks began, attempted to escape.
>None.
>
>That's learned helplessness. That's what at least some kids in school are
>feeling, probably many, maybe most.
>
>Pam

>
>
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