Pam Hartley

> But earlier you said that Brett goes over every Saturday.
>
> ** No, I said Sunday's. He goes to church with them.
>
> And here you say
> (in the very first sentence) that he gets one every time he goes over,
>
> ** No, I said usually, not every time. As long as he's getting them
> regularly, that's usually to me. When he starts getting them once every six
> months or so, then that'll be "occasionally".
>
> (and
> in the next sentence) you go right on to say it's no big deal, he only eats
> one every two months.
>
> ** Yup, that's usually.
>
> In an earlier post you say his Nana gives them to him,
> now you say they are on a counter.
>
> ** So they can't sit on a counter AND be offered to him at the same time?
> Why not? I know she keeps them on the counter and I seriously doubt my son
> would be rude enough to take them without permission.
>
> In another post you say that your parents
> deal with their own allergies. If so, then why would they, knowing how
> allergies are, give an allergic child said allergen?
> ** I already answered this. They think he should be growing out of the
> allergy. Their allergies are the serious, life-threatening kind. They don't
> understand as much about the lesser, so to speak, allergies. My dad didn't
> believe in allergies at all til the third time he was hospitalized unable
> to breathe.
>
>
> Myranda, I know you are feeling picked on, but you have cried "No, you don't
> understand" so often that we are just trying to get you to see the
> inconsistencies in your posts.
>
> ** You know, it is hard to stick to one discussion or opinion or topic
> when so many OT or side-topic things keep getting thrown in. Like this...
> no one is interested in discussing the rude woman who upset Brett to no
> end, but let's have tons of posts discussing bananas? Or how reporting
> child abuse got turned into not helping a girl that drunks were sexually
> abusing. It makes no sense to me, honestly, and is hard to follow.
>
> How when you post we see different sides of
> the same story because you respond with something a little different each
> time someone asks you a question.
>
> ** Yeah, well, everyone does that! You start off with a little
> information, someone asks for more info, you give it.
>
>
> If this were a group of people IRL (that's
> in real life) standing around talking, you might get away with
> inconsistencies because you could say things like "no I didn't say that' or
> "no, you misunderstood" you can't say those things here. All your posts get
> sent to us in our mailboxes either individually or in digest. All your posts
> are archived on Yahoo for years.
>
> ** And I do wish some people would check those archives before saying
> that I said things I never did. I've been accused of saying things that
> other people said, stating views I never stated, etc. No offense meant, but
> I find it ironic that in a post accusing me of not being consistant and
> quoting me, you said two things wrong - that I said he went over on
> Saturdays and that he had a banana every time. Almost every single post
> argueing with me about my views, there are at least one or two such
> mistakes, but I'm taken to task for not being consistant? Interesting.
>
> Don't believe me? Go read something I posted
> 6 months ago, or Sandra posted 2 years ago, or Joyce posted 15 months ago,
or
> Todd posted last month or or or... take your pick.
>
> ~Nancy
>
> ** Why would you assume I wouldn't believe you? Besides, I own a yahoo
> list, and am a member on many more. I know how they work.
> Myranda



I just had to post this whole thing uncut and unedited, because it's a
perfect synopsis of what Myranda is filling the list with.

Myranda, if you are really this confused I suggest you stop posting and read
here and at www.unschooling.com message boards for a few weeks and try to
sort it all out in your own head.

Hopefully that will clear things up for you. As it is now, your credibility
is zero, because it appears that you simply make things up as you go along.
This could be a limitation in your writing skills at this moment. It could
be that you're intentionally lying. Right now, no one can tell the
difference, and you're not doing yourself or the list's stated purpose any
good.

MHO, as always,

Pam

Myranda

People are misquoting me left and right, subjects I post about get turned into 5 or more different OT subjects/debates by others while the original subject is all but ignored, I'm told my opinions shouldn't change even tho situations change, bananas cannot both sit on a counter and be offered to someone, and I'm the one who needs to sort things out, and am possibly lying? Okaaaayyy.
Myranda

From: Pam Hartley
I just had to post this whole thing uncut and unedited, because it's a
perfect synopsis of what Myranda is filling the list with.

Myranda, if you are really this confused I suggest you stop posting and read
here and at www.unschooling.com message boards for a few weeks and try to
sort it all out in your own head.

Hopefully that will clear things up for you. As it is now, your credibility
is zero, because it appears that you simply make things up as you go along.
This could be a limitation in your writing skills at this moment. It could
be that you're intentionally lying. Right now, no one can tell the
difference, and you're not doing yourself or the list's stated purpose any
good.

MHO, as always,

Pam

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Peggy

> People are misquoting me left and right, subjects I post about get turned into 5 or more different OT
> subjects/debates by others while the original subject is all but ignored, I'm told my opinions shouldn't change even
> tho situations change, bananas cannot both sit on a counter and be offered to someone, and I'm the one who needs
> to sort things out, and am possibly lying? Okaaaayyy.
> Myranda

People quote your exact words and you deny you said them. Maybe you're not
lying. Maybe you're just dumb as a brick and enjoy wasting bandwidth.

Peggy

Myranda

Yup, guess I'm so dumb that I didn't read where someone misquoted that I'd said "I did not say that" and that I said Saturday instead of Sunday, and all the others over the past few days. Sure I'm dumb. Explains everything! Dumb, stay-at-home, unschooling, ex-home-business-operating, former-regional-manager-for-national-company, party-planner-and-organizer, pro-children-and-healthy-living mom.
Myranda
People quote your exact words and you deny you said them. Maybe you're not
lying. Maybe you're just dumb as a brick and enjoy wasting bandwidth.

Peggy

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

margotapple

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Myranda" <myrandab@b...> wrote:
> Yup, guess I'm so dumb that I didn't read where someone misquoted
that I'd said "I did not say that" and that I said Saturday instead of
Sunday, and all the others over the past few days. Sure I'm dumb.
Explains everything! Dumb, stay-at-home, unschooling,
ex-home-business-operating,
former-regional-manager-for-national-company,
party-planner-and-organizer, pro-children-and-healthy-living mom.
> Myranda

I personally don't find all that much that is pro-children in your
posts. I see a lot of self aggrandizement and not a whole lot of
sensitivity for what your children are actually experiencing. Lack of
self awareness doesn't came across as bright. Purile, junior high
school level snide comments don't inspire respect.

That whole bit about the game boy? Rent him one for a weekend and see
how it goes instead of turning it into some kind of pathology. Let him
figure out himself that it doesn't work for him. Look for solutions
instead of making excuses or expecting us to believe that a stranger's
passing comment is the problem. Take responsibility for not just the
good in your children's lives but also the pain. That's deserving of
respect.


Peggy

Myranda

From: margotapple
I personally don't find all that much that is pro-children in your
posts.

**Okay.... I post because I'm worried of what interference can do to children, I post a question because I'm worried about young children cooking, etc. and none of that is pro-children?

I see a lot of self aggrandizement and not a whole lot of
sensitivity for what your children are actually experiencing. Lack of
self awareness doesn't came across as bright. Purile, junior high
school level snide comments don't inspire respect.
** Nope, but neither does a lot of other things I've seen come across on here. I'm not the only one being mis-quoted and accused of things never said/done/meant. Seems when someone doesn't agree with you and can't change your mind, they resort to name-calling, mis-quoting, and deliberate twisting of words and topics.


That whole bit about the game boy? Rent him one for a weekend and see
how it goes instead of turning it into some kind of pathology. Let him
figure out himself that it doesn't work for him.

** Did you miss where I said that it would hurt him??? If I'm not willing to let him lay his arm on a hot burner to realize it would hurt, you really think I'm going to un-do years of work on his eyes so he realizes it would hurt? I think not!

Look for solutions

** We have solutions. We have TV-based game systems.

instead of making excuses or expecting us to believe that a stranger's
passing comment is the problem.
Take responsibility for not just the
good in your children's lives but also the pain. That's deserving of
respect.

** So by what you're saying, I should leave him at home when I go out. That's taking responsibility to make sure strangers don't cause him more pain. Or are you saying I caused the pain??? I caused him to cry because he wanted to believe what a stranger told him? Either way, that just doesn't make sense.
Myranda



Peggy




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

>From: "Myranda" <myrandab@...>

<<People are misquoting me left and right, subjects I post about get turned
into 5 or more different OT subjects/debates by others while the original
subject is all but ignored, I'm told my opinions shouldn't change even tho
situations change, bananas cannot both sit on a counter and be offered to
someone, and I'm the one who needs to sort things out, and am possibly
lying? Okaaaayyy.


When you are on a list and posting, it just stands to reason that something
you say will touch someone and then they remark on that one thing and it
leads to another. That's just a fact. We started to talk about food
restrictions and it turned into one little discussion about whether blue
Gatorade stains or not. If we talked about just one thing only, how boring
would that be? You seem to only have a problem when someone challenges you.
You never said anything else about posts going off on a tangent.

Mary B

_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp

Mary Bianco

>From: "Myranda" <myrandab@...>

<<So by what you're saying, I should leave him at home when I go out. That's
taking responsibility to make sure strangers don't cause him more pain. Or
are you saying I caused the pain??? I caused him to cry because he wanted to
believe what a stranger told him? Either way, that just doesn't make
sense.>>


What doesn't make sense to all of us who know we have done something with at
least one of our children we probably shouldn't have, is that you don't want
to take responsibility for possibly handling a situation in the least
effective way. It was NOT the fault of the stranger in the store. What I see
as a problem is that your son is believing, from what you said, a total
stranger instead of his mom and the Dr. who he supposedly believed before.
You say that you talk to your son all the time and he understands and gets
stuff. Why would he not believe you now because of a fleeting moment in a
store from someone you both don't know??

Mary B


_________________________________________________________________
Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN!
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

Peggy

Myranda wrote:
>
> From: margotapple
> I personally don't find all that much that is pro-children in your
> posts.
>
> **Okay.... I post because I'm worried of what interference can do to children, I post a question because I'm worried about young children cooking, etc. and none of that is pro-children?

Honestly? No. Writing about children isn't necessarily writing for them. I
think you are a young and a bit overwhelmed by having three kids by age, is it
25 or less? I've had plenty of friends like you in the past. Just getting by
and trying their best but still young enough to be working through their own
issues instead of seeing their kid's issues as separate from them.

>
> I see a lot of self aggrandizement and not a whole lot of
> sensitivity for what your children are actually experiencing. Lack of
> self awareness doesn't came across as bright. Purile, junior high
> school level snide comments don't inspire respect.

> ** Nope, but neither does a lot of other things I've seen come across on here. I'm not the only one being mis-quoted and accused of things never said/done/meant. Seems when someone doesn't agree with you and can't change your mind, they resort to name-calling, mis-quoting, and deliberate twisting of words and topics.

This is what I mean about the junior high school stuff. Who cares? This isn't
conversation it is just static. Why bother? Why stay if that is what you
really think? This isn't how grown-ups talk.

>
> That whole bit about the game boy? Rent him one for a weekend and see
> how it goes instead of turning it into some kind of pathology. Let him
> figure out himself that it doesn't work for him.
>
> ** Did you miss where I said that it would hurt him??? If I'm not willing to let him lay his arm on a hot burner to realize it would hurt, you really think I'm going to un-do years of work on his eyes so he realizes it would hurt? I think not!

You can go on and on about you and it still isn't going to convince anyone
that you have heard anything here. The point is that all we can change is
ourselves, right? This situation bothered you with that woman? Why? Your
reaction to it and how you responded to your son have NOTHING to do with that
woman. Get it? It is all about you. You can make up one dramatic scenario
after another and it still isn't going to convince anyone here that your only
option was how you treated your son. That's just foolish. So, you didn't
handle it that well, admit it, admit it to *him* and tell yourself that next
time you'll have better options available for him. It isn't about that woman
or him, it is about how you dealt with the stress. You can write a hundred
posts to the contrary and still no grown up here is going to believe it
because we've been there, done that, and have at least tried to grow beyond
blaming our own actions on the circumstances. That's what taking
responsibility is.

>
> Look for solutions
>
> ** We have solutions. We have TV-based game systems.

>
> instead of making excuses or expecting us to believe that a stranger's
> passing comment is the problem.
> Take responsibility for not just the
> good in your children's lives but also the pain. That's deserving of
> respect.
>
> ** So by what you're saying, I should leave him at home when I go out.

No, that isn't what I said. Either/or thinking doesn't help find real
solutions that work for everyone in the family.

>That's taking responsibility to make sure strangers don't cause him more pain. Or are you saying I caused the pain??? I caused him to cry because he wanted to believe what a stranger told him? Either way, that just doesn't make sense.

No, you need to take responsibility by learning from your mistakes. Finding
REAL solutions to problems that just aren't temporary Band-Aids so that you
lay the groundwork of trust and respect in your son's life. When that trust is
solid then these little things don't shake a kid so. When they sincerely
believe the mom or dad really has their best interests at heart then a parent
doesn't have to spend most of their time putting out little fires of
misunderstanding. That's what people keep saying here. That's what you are
not hearing. You can start today to have a different life with him or you can
just keep making up elaborate rationales that have everything to do with you
and little to do with him. He has his own needs. Try to meet them honestly and
you'll have a better life together. What you can't do is tell us you are
meeting his needs and then give horrendous examples of how very little you
understand what his real needs are and expect us to somehow not notice.

Peggy

Kelli Traaseth

Myranda,
I don't know if anyone has said this, I'm trying to keep up on posts but had to do some other things than sit on the computer yesterday, so ignore me if this is repetitive.

Maybe, this is all an age thing and what you've been raised with thing?
Possibly, you have been raised in an environment that is totally different than what some of these posters see as unschooling? And in your eyes it is unschooling, fine.

But sometimes we have to pause and think through alot of what we are going to say before we say it or type it. Meaning, people sometimes learn this with age.
And maybe with age, and this doesn't mean you are dumb or anything, you'll understand some of what we are saying?

I don't know, but I'm just taking a stab.
Kelli
margotapple <peggy@...> wrote:--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Myranda" <myrandab@b...> wrote:
> Yup, guess I'm so dumb that I didn't read where someone misquoted
that I'd said "I did not say that" and that I said Saturday instead of
Sunday, and all the others over the past few days. Sure I'm dumb.
Explains everything! Dumb, stay-at-home, unschooling,
ex-home-business-operating,
former-regional-manager-for-national-company,
party-planner-and-organizer, pro-children-and-healthy-living mom.
> Myranda

I personally don't find all that much that is pro-children in your
posts. I see a lot of self aggrandizement and not a whole lot of
sensitivity for what your children are actually experiencing. Lack of
self awareness doesn't came across as bright. Purile, junior high
school level snide comments don't inspire respect.

That whole bit about the game boy? Rent him one for a weekend and see
how it goes instead of turning it into some kind of pathology. Let him
figure out himself that it doesn't work for him. Look for solutions
instead of making excuses or expecting us to believe that a stranger's
passing comment is the problem. Take responsibility for not just the
good in your children's lives but also the pain. That's deserving of
respect.


Peggy



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myranda

Because he WANTS it to be ok, very, very badly. Because he knows situations and sometimes answers change, and is used to going by whatever the latest answer was. Because he can't understand that someone would say something that's not true, and he's very confused. Because he is used to being able to trust any adult, and here are two that are telling him completely different things, and the person he loves and trusts is NOT the one saying the answer he wants so badly to hear.

I don't see how you can say it's not the fault of the stranger, when she very obviously interfered in a situation that was absolutely none of her business, when very obviously no one's help was needed or wanted, and when now, days later, my son is still upset, confused, and brooding over it. Not to mention confused and hurt because he realizes that SOMEONE had to have lied to him. So when it finally gets all straightened out, I doubt he's going to trust anything he is told by others for a very, very, long time. I know I still remember the first time I was lied to by a stranger, and how much it hurt, and I don't think he'll be forgetting it any time soon. Yes, SHE caused this damage and hurt to my son with her careless words. Quit trying to blame me for it, and think about what you could be doing to a child before you step in and interfere in someone else's life.

You can say all you want to that I shouldn't have left the store, that Brett should have still gotten the other things, and whatever else, but NOTHING changes the fact that the only thing he was hurt by was this woman's words. It doesn't matter whether or not he had a banana, sure that made it worse while in the store, but it doesn't change the fact that he was lied to and is hurt.
Myranda

From: Mary Bianco
What doesn't make sense to all of us who know we have done something with at
least one of our children we probably shouldn't have, is that you don't want
to take responsibility for possibly handling a situation in the least
effective way. It was NOT the fault of the stranger in the store. What I see
as a problem is that your son is believing, from what you said, a total
stranger instead of his mom and the Dr. who he supposedly believed before.
You say that you talk to your son all the time and he understands and gets
stuff. Why would he not believe you now because of a fleeting moment in a
store from someone you both don't know??

Mary B





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 10/24/02 7:47 AM, Myranda at myrandab@... wrote:

> I don't see how you can say it's not the fault of the stranger, when she very
> obviously interfered in a situation that was absolutely none of her business

You can write a thousand posts, believe with your entire being, tell
everyone you meet that it isn't right for outsiders to interfere between a
parent and child. But it won't stop people from interfering. The chance that
someone might say something to us when we're out in public is as much a part
of life as the chance that it might rain.

What if your son hears something on TV that conflicts with what you've said
and gets upset? Is it the TV's fault?

Figuring out how to solve the problems life dumps on us is a more useful
life skill than figuring out what or who to blame.

Joyce

Myranda

From: Peggy
Honestly? No. Writing about children isn't necessarily writing for them. I
think you are a young and a bit overwhelmed by having three kids by age, is it
25 or less?

** Overwhelmed? No. I've been taking care of at least two children since I was 14. I've worked full-time jobs with two, as well as kept the house up and took care of my mom who has a lot of health problems. This is the absolute least-stressful and overwhelming time in my entire life, now that I'm home with my children with no outside obligations. 25? Yup, for a couple more weeks, at least.

I've had plenty of friends like you in the past. Just getting by
and trying their best but still young enough to be working through their own
issues instead of seeing their kid's issues as separate from them.
** No offense, but you don't know what I'm like. This nonsense that keeps going on here is NOTHING like I am. Just getting by? For now. Since we made a bad choice and moved to SC where the cost of living is much higher than we were used to. Working thru my own issues? Nah, those were settled years ago. No matter my age now, I've been on my own for 10 years, married for 8 years, a parent for over 7 years, and have seen and experienced enough to know that life is never guarenteed and to live, enjoy, and love every minute of it.


This is what I mean about the junior high school stuff. Who cares? This isn't
conversation it is just static. Why bother? Why stay if that is what you
really think? This isn't how grown-ups talk.

** And attacking and putting others down for their opinions is grown-up talk? I don't think so. Sounds more like grade-school to me - if you can't agree to our rules, you can't join our club. The reason I'm here is to hopefully find more ideas, links, and anything else that we can do and enjoy.
Myranda



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myranda

Kelli,
I *do* understand what is being said, I just don't agree with it all. A lot of it goes into things I really don't want to discuss on a list of people that I don't know well. Yes, I've found that my idea of unschooling is different from most posters here. I see unschooling as an educational choice, nothing more or less. All of this other about it being a way of parenting, I don't agree with. Sure, most unschoolers choose to respect their children, to give them freedom of choice in all areas, to put their rights above all else, but to me those are parenting choices, not unschooling choices. I read these posts, everyone dealing with learning to have patience with their kids, learning to let them get their anger out in other ways, learning how to talk to them so that they'll listen, and so on, and I went through all that years ago. Not as much as some people, I imagine, because I started out with many of the respect and allow philosophies to begin with. I understand, but I'm already past that point. I've already sifted through what this expert suggests and what that expert swears by. We've already figured out what works for us and what doesn't, and we've had our "system" in effect for years now. Yes, it changes as it needs to in order to fit everyone's needs, but it's still based on the same philosophies. I'm not going to change years of what has worked for us and kept us all happy just because someone has an opinion that something should be done differently.

Many people here keep saying things to me like "how do you know if you have limits", not realizing that the limits ONLY come when there is a need for them to begin with. Re-reading some of the posts about my son and the woman in the store, I think some people are suggesting (without actually saying so) that I should have just stayed in the store and kept on shopping instead of leaving. I know from experience that that would have been the worst thing for us to do at that point. The other two would have ended up upset and crying, Brett would have kept on crying, and I would be trying to calm down 3 while trying to finish shopping and get out before the yogurt got too warm - that, combined with the rude woman and the looks I'd be getting from other customers, would push my frustration level way too high to be able to deal with 3 upset kids. I know when to quit.
Myranda

From: Kelli Traaseth
Myranda,
I don't know if anyone has said this, I'm trying to keep up on posts but had to do some other things than sit on the computer yesterday, so ignore me if this is repetitive.

Maybe, this is all an age thing and what you've been raised with thing?
Possibly, you have been raised in an environment that is totally different than what some of these posters see as unschooling? And in your eyes it is unschooling, fine.

But sometimes we have to pause and think through alot of what we are going to say before we say it or type it. Meaning, people sometimes learn this with age.
And maybe with age, and this doesn't mean you are dumb or anything, you'll understand some of what we are saying?

I don't know, but I'm just taking a stab.
Kelli



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Peggy

Myranda wrote:

> ** Overwhelmed? No. I've been taking care of at least two children since I was 14. I've worked full-time jobs with two, as well as kept the house up and took care of my mom who has a lot of health problems. This is the absolute least-stressful and overwhelming time in my entire life, now that I'm home with my children with no outside obligations. 25? Yup, for a couple more weeks, at least.

And where in that time was your time? That's what I mean. Just because a
person was brought up to meet other people's needs without their own needs
being met, doesn't mean that's all there is. Sure people survive all the time
but that isn't optimal. We all have needs and the very deepest one is to be
loved and accepted for just us, not because we helped our own parents or
caretakers in some way, not because we helped them meet their needs.

>
> I've had plenty of friends like you in the past. Just getting by
> and trying their best but still young enough to be working through their own
> issues instead of seeing their kid's issues as separate from them.

> ** No offense, but you don't know what I'm like. This nonsense that keeps going on here is NOTHING like I am. Just getting by? For now. Since we made a bad choice and moved to SC where the cost of living is much higher than we were used to. Working thru my own issues? Nah, those were settled years ago. No matter my age now, I've been on my own for 10 years, married for 8 years, a parent for over 7 years, and have seen and experienced enough to know that life is never guarenteed and to live, enjoy, and love every minute of it.

And yet you don't really understand what I'm saying at all. I'm not talking
about money. I'm taking about being the kind of emotionally sound individual
who can support their children fully. A person can't give to their children
what they don't have themselves. No issues? For starters anyone who doesn't
think they have issues has some. ;)


>
> This is what I mean about the junior high school stuff. Who cares? This isn't
> conversation it is just static. Why bother? Why stay if that is what you
> really think? This isn't how grown-ups talk.
>
> ** And attacking and putting others down for their opinions is grown-up talk? I don't think so. Sounds more like grade-school to me - if you can't agree to our rules, you can't join our club. The reason I'm here is to hopefully find more ideas, links, and anything else that we can do and enjoy.
> Myranda

How many posts have you made the last week? What people are asking of you is
honest self examination if you are going to keep flinging your thoughts to the
group without first considering them carefully. Just saying something is so
doesn't make it so, especially around a bunch of women who have heard it all
before. Our experience can work for you instead of against you, if you just
open yourself up and accept your vulnerability. We're all vulnerable. Many of
us have peeled off some very tough callouses ourselves in searching for the
real us underneath. We have sympathy for that pain.

Peggy

Myranda

From: Peggy
Myranda wrote:

> ** Overwhelmed? No. I've been taking care of at least two children since I was 14. I've worked full-time jobs with two, as well as kept the house up and took care of my mom who has a lot of health problems. This is the absolute least-stressful and overwhelming time in my entire life, now that I'm home with my children with no outside obligations. 25? Yup, for a couple more weeks, at least.

And where in that time was your time? That's what I mean. Just because a
person was brought up to meet other people's needs without their own needs
being met, doesn't mean that's all there is. Sure people survive all the time
but that isn't optimal. We all have needs and the very deepest one is to be
loved and accepted for just us, not because we helped our own parents or
caretakers in some way, not because we helped them meet their needs.

** OK, not trying to pick on you Peggy, but this is what I'm talking about how things I say, and the meaning of what I say, gets twisted around. I was not brought up to meet others needs, or even to do nice things for other people. I wasn't just surviving, I did what I did because I wanted to, because I chose to, because it made me happy and a more complete person to do so. I took enough time for me, usually at night, my absolute favorite time. I still take enough "me" time, although as I've gotten older I don't need half as much time as I used to.

And yet you don't really understand what I'm saying at all. I'm not talking
about money. I'm taking about being the kind of emotionally sound individual
who can support their children fully. A person can't give to their children
what they don't have themselves. No issues? For starters anyone who doesn't
think they have issues has some. ;)

** Well, ok, I do have issues with people telling others how they should act, believe, think, or talk. That's one that's here for good, I think. Otherwise, not a thing. I am totally at peace with myself, and if/when anything does come up, a few hours alone, or even a few minutes here or there, and it will be settled. I never realized how odd that particular ability was until my DH and I married and I saw how he had issues with his past that he just has never been able to let go of. He still has a hard time with that, poor guy.


How many posts have you made the last week?


** Way too many, but I think it would be rather rude to ignore direct questions.


What people are asking of you is
honest self examination if you are going to keep flinging your thoughts to the
group without first considering them carefully.


** Which I definitely did before posting my original post about being careful about what you say IF you just have to interfere in others' parenting. I'm still confused how that one got turned into a spanking debate.

Just saying something is so
doesn't make it so, especially around a bunch of women who have heard it all
before. Our experience can work for you instead of against you, if you just
open yourself up and accept your vulnerability. We're all vulnerable. Many of
us have peeled off some very tough callouses ourselves in searching for the
real us underneath. We have sympathy for that pain.

Peggy

** I've done the same thing, it can be painful or it can be empowering. Experience is a wonderful help, I agree. So far, though, I haven't read one bit of parenting advice that I haven't heard/read before, at least a dozen times. These ideas are not new to me. I've read, heard, researched, read some more, weighed, considered, sometimes tested, sometimes accepted, sometimes rejected, I think every parenting philosophy you can think of. I've found our balance, together with the children and DH. I'm happy, kids are happy, and DH is occasionally happy. Can't do anything about him though, he has to find his own happiness.
Myranda




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

>From: "Myranda" <myrandab@...>

<<Because he WANTS it to be ok, very, very badly. Because he knows
situations and sometimes answers change, and is used to going by whatever
the latest answer was. Because he can't understand that someone would say
something that's not true, and he's very confused. Because he is used to
being able to trust any adult, and here are two that are telling him
completely different things, and the person he loves and trusts is NOT the
one saying the answer he wants so badly to hear.

I don't see how you can say it's not the fault of the stranger, when she
very obviously interfered in a situation that was absolutely none of her
business, when very obviously no one's help was needed or wanted, and when
now, days later, my son is still upset, confused, and brooding over it. Not
to mention confused and hurt because he realizes that SOMEONE had to have
lied to him. So when it finally gets all straightened out, I doubt he's
going to trust anything he is told by others for a very, very, long time. I
know I still remember the first time I was lied to by a stranger, and how
much it hurt, and I don't think he'll be forgetting it any time soon. Yes,
SHE caused this damage and hurt to my son with her careless words. Quit
trying to blame me for it, and think about what you could be doing to a
child before you step in and interfere in someone else's life.

You can say all you want to that I shouldn't have left the store, that Brett
should have still gotten the other things, and whatever else, but NOTHING
changes the fact that the only thing he was hurt by was this woman's words.
It doesn't matter whether or not he had a banana, sure that made it worse
while in the store, but it doesn't change the fact that he was lied to and
is hurt.>>



Well I'm convinced now more than ever that you just don't "get" what most of
us here have been trying to say. I'm sorry your son was so hurt by being
"lied" to. Have you talked with him about stranger danger and how one can't
always believe someone just because they are an adult? A sad thing but
necessary in this day and age. I wish you luck with your parenting and hope
all goes well.

Mary B


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In a message dated 10/23/02 6:58:44 PM Central Daylight Time,
mummyone24@... writes:

> We started to talk about food
> restrictions and it turned into one little discussion about whether blue
> Gatorade stains or not.

I have to say that every time I read the words "blue Gatorade" it makes me
smile. Never seen it, tasted it, smelled it. But it makes me smile.

Elizabeth