Alan & Brenda Leonard

10/22/02 06:05:

> Brenda,
> I have to empathize with you on your last comment, it must be a phonomena
> that a few of us get to live with. I just returned from four days over with
> my parents and let's say, it wasn't the most relaxing!
>
> Kelli, feeling so much better being back home/ whewwww, good luck with your
> dilemma, (also not wanting to check spelling)

Now that it's not midnight, I'm realizing that the big problem for me is
that I'm just out of step with the world, period.

I just came back from a cub scout party. I've never heard so many parents
yell at their kids for no obvious reason, all at once. One mother
complained to me about her son's loud voice. I told her I enjoyed his
joyous energy (and I do!). She looked at me like I'm from another planet.
I'm getting used to that look! <g>

I think we're just different. Probably a good thing.

brenda

Julie Stauffer

<<...doesn't even punish them anymore. AND I am very concerned about
parental rights>>

Concerned about the parent's rights to do what exactly? Parental rights
usually are thought to consist of raising the child as they see fit and
punishing the child as they see fit. If punishment is taken out of the
equation, we are really talking about the rights of the individual to live
as they choose without undue interference from the government. Couldn't
those individual rights be granted to children rather than parents....that
is if control of the child is not the core issue?

Julie

Kelli Traaseth

Yeah, I guess so, that its a good thing, but sometimes its such a hard thing.
Kelli
Alan & Brenda Leonard <abtleo@...> wrote:10/22/02 06:05:

> Brenda,
> I have to empathize with you on your last comment, it must be a phonomena
> that a few of us get to live with. I just returned from four days over with
> my parents and let's say, it wasn't the most relaxing!
>
> Kelli, feeling so much better being back home/ whewwww, good luck with your
> dilemma, (also not wanting to check spelling)

Now that it's not midnight, I'm realizing that the big problem for me is
that I'm just out of step with the world, period.

I just came back from a cub scout party. I've never heard so many parents
yell at their kids for no obvious reason, all at once. One mother
complained to me about her son's loud voice. I told her I enjoyed his
joyous energy (and I do!). She looked at me like I'm from another planet.
I'm getting used to that look! <g>

I think we're just different. Probably a good thing.

brenda


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kayb85

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@g...> wrote:
> <<...doesn't even punish them anymore. AND I am very concerned
about
> parental rights>>
>
> Concerned about the parent's rights to do what exactly? Parental
rights
> usually are thought to consist of raising the child as they see fit
and
> punishing the child as they see fit. If punishment is taken out of
the
> equation, we are really talking about the rights of the individual
to live
> as they choose without undue interference from the government.
Couldn't
> those individual rights be granted to children rather than
parents....that
> is if control of the child is not the core issue?
>
> Julie

No. When I was a teenager, I lived in a house where I was punished
and had a lot of strict rules. I often threatened to hurt myself in
a way that I would be bruised so that I could call the police and get
them in trouble. I told them that I would lie and say they did it.
I never went through with it, and now I am SO glad I didn't. As
strict as my parents were, they were the parents God gave me and they
were the right parents for me. That's not to say they couldn't have
done some things differently, but they also did a lot of things
right. Had I done that, I probably would have been placed in foster
care and would have been emotionally scarred for life.

And as much as I don't agree with the way many parents raise their
kids, God placed those families there and they have the right to
raise them as they see fit, even if it means the kids get punished in
ways I don't approve of.

I don't like spanking, but I will stick up for a parent's right to do
it. I don't see it as abuse. As a boy, my grandpa was taken out to
the barn to be punished with his father's belt. His 9 brothers and
sisters were punished this way too. Yes, I think it's terrible, but
he and all his brothers and sisters grew up to be healthy, productive
adults. It wouldn't have been a good thing to take those kids away
from their parents because they feared their dad's belt.

As far as a child's total rights to do anything at all--hang out with
anyone or wear any kind of clothing at all--no. I am very free with
what my kids can wear, but I would have my limits. If, for example,
my kids wanted to hang out with satanists or wear satanic t-shirts,
they would be strictly forbidden. I don't think they ever would, but
I reserve the right at any time to step in and say, "You've crossed
the line, God gave you to me to raise, and I will someday have to
answer to Him for how I raise you. You may not go there, you may not
wear that, and you may not spend time with those people."

Sheila

[email protected]

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 04:05:06 -0000 "kayb85" <sheran@...> writes:
> And as much as I don't agree with the way many parents raise their
> kids, God placed those families there and they have the right to
> raise them as they see fit, even if it means the kids get punished
> in ways I don't approve of.

UG! This whole post is just really, really repulsive to me. Do you have
any idea what kind of crap people do to their kids out there? Is it okay
for parents to make their kids drink piss because they forgot to flush
the toilet? How about beating them bloody for not brushing their hair
right and then locking them in a hot, stuffy attic room for 3 days with
no bathroom and no food? Is that really all okay with God? If he
intentionally places kids with those parents then he's one sick bastard.

Dar

kayb85

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., freeform@j... wrote:
>
> On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 04:05:06 -0000 "kayb85" <sheran@p...> writes:
> > And as much as I don't agree with the way many parents raise
their
> > kids, God placed those families there and they have the right to
> > raise them as they see fit, even if it means the kids get
punished
> > in ways I don't approve of.
>
> UG! This whole post is just really, really repulsive to me. Do you
have
> any idea what kind of crap people do to their kids out there? Is it
okay
> for parents to make their kids drink piss because they forgot to
flush
> the toilet? How about beating them bloody for not brushing their
hair
> right and then locking them in a hot, stuffy attic room for 3 days
with
> no bathroom and no food? Is that really all okay with God? If he
> intentionally places kids with those parents then he's one sick
bastard.
>
> Dar

I'm not advocating abuse. If someone beats a child bloody or
withholds food for 3 days, you're going to have a hard time finding
anyone who says that the parents shouldn't be prosecuted.

I was talking more about parents who yell at their kids and withhold
privelages for things that I think are trivial. Or parents who spank
their children in controlled ways. I know many, many parents who
discipline according to the recommendations of James Dobson. I don't
agree with Dobson (I used to!) but I know plenty of parents who spank
and I don't know any of them whose children wouldn't be traumatized
if their children were removed from their parents.

As far as how God places children, I believe that He matches the
correct child with the correct parents all the time, but that sin
often gets in the way and parents don't parent the way God intended
for them to.

Sheila

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/24/02 11:08:15 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< I'm not advocating abuse. If someone beats a child bloody or
withholds food for 3 days, you're going to have a hard time finding
anyone who says that the parents shouldn't be prosecuted. >>

What if they just beat them bruised a little and send them to bed without
supper?