Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2518
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/21/02 8:14:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< True Christians are the ones who have accepted Jesus, and who live in the
way God said for them to live. Not any way they want to.
Myranda >>
Ok, so who are the "True Christians"?
I call myself Christian, because to me, it is one that follows Christ.
But I don't see myself adhering to ANY of the Christian doctrines that are
popular, in fact, I see them in direct conflict with many things in the Bible
and with Christs teachings.
Every church sees themselves as "truth" usually.....so when SO many different
people interpret what it is God wants in a different way, how does one
decipher a "true Christian"?
Millions of people believe with all their hearts that they are living
according to Gods law, and yet, there are almost as many belief systems and
religions as there are people.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< True Christians are the ones who have accepted Jesus, and who live in the
way God said for them to live. Not any way they want to.
Myranda >>
Ok, so who are the "True Christians"?
I call myself Christian, because to me, it is one that follows Christ.
But I don't see myself adhering to ANY of the Christian doctrines that are
popular, in fact, I see them in direct conflict with many things in the Bible
and with Christs teachings.
Every church sees themselves as "truth" usually.....so when SO many different
people interpret what it is God wants in a different way, how does one
decipher a "true Christian"?
Millions of people believe with all their hearts that they are living
according to Gods law, and yet, there are almost as many belief systems and
religions as there are people.
Ren
Myranda
From: starsuncloud@...
Ok, so who are the "True Christians"?
I call myself Christian, because to me,
it is one that follows Christ.
** Exactly - one that follows Christ's word and laws.
But I don't see myself adhering to ANY of the Christian doctrines that are
popular, in fact, I see them in direct conflict with many things in the Bible
and with Christs teachings.
** Me too. That's why I don't attend any kind of church any longer.
Every church sees themselves as "truth" usually.....so when SO many different
people interpret what it is God wants in a different way, how does one
decipher a "true Christian"?
Millions of people believe with all their hearts that they are living
according to Gods law, and yet, there are almost as many belief systems and
religions as there are people.
Ren
** Maybe I'm over-simplifying things, but I think that accepting God into your heart, keeping his commandmants, and his later teachings (not the Old Testament teachings as most of those were "outdated" when Jesus died on the cross), and honestly repenting when you have gone against those things, is basically what it boils down to. None of the laws are really difficult to follow, most of them are simply about treating others right and taking care of yourself. Things people should be doing, no matter what their religious beliefs. I think most organized religions add way too much of their own twist to things and complicate it much more than necessary.
Myranda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ok, so who are the "True Christians"?
I call myself Christian, because to me,
it is one that follows Christ.
** Exactly - one that follows Christ's word and laws.
But I don't see myself adhering to ANY of the Christian doctrines that are
popular, in fact, I see them in direct conflict with many things in the Bible
and with Christs teachings.
** Me too. That's why I don't attend any kind of church any longer.
Every church sees themselves as "truth" usually.....so when SO many different
people interpret what it is God wants in a different way, how does one
decipher a "true Christian"?
Millions of people believe with all their hearts that they are living
according to Gods law, and yet, there are almost as many belief systems and
religions as there are people.
Ren
** Maybe I'm over-simplifying things, but I think that accepting God into your heart, keeping his commandmants, and his later teachings (not the Old Testament teachings as most of those were "outdated" when Jesus died on the cross), and honestly repenting when you have gone against those things, is basically what it boils down to. None of the laws are really difficult to follow, most of them are simply about treating others right and taking care of yourself. Things people should be doing, no matter what their religious beliefs. I think most organized religions add way too much of their own twist to things and complicate it much more than necessary.
Myranda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/22/02 6:07:56 AM, myrandab@... writes:
<< (not the Old Testament teachings as most of those were "outdated" when
Jesus died on the cross) >>
"Most"?
There's part of the biggest problem. Each church wants to pick and choose
which of those are still in effect and which Jesus' atonement cancels out.
And those who whip their kids use old testament justifications. Yet I don't
see many (ANY, but I don't see so many) Jewish families hitting their
children with sticks or belts or anything else.
There are justifications for slavery and prejudice and multiple marriage in
the Bible. National laws and social realities also affect how people
interpret Bible verses.
Sandra
<< (not the Old Testament teachings as most of those were "outdated" when
Jesus died on the cross) >>
"Most"?
There's part of the biggest problem. Each church wants to pick and choose
which of those are still in effect and which Jesus' atonement cancels out.
And those who whip their kids use old testament justifications. Yet I don't
see many (ANY, but I don't see so many) Jewish families hitting their
children with sticks or belts or anything else.
There are justifications for slavery and prejudice and multiple marriage in
the Bible. National laws and social realities also affect how people
interpret Bible verses.
Sandra
Myranda
Yes, most because there were some that were still to be followed, and it said so in the New Testament. Not many, but a few.
My DH's step-father is a preacher, and compares the Bible to the internet - people can find things in both places to prove or disprove almost any view. You just have to get down to the bare-bones truth, no matter what the subject is. As for the Bible, you can't get away from the fact that it says you do have to believe in God and Jesus to be "saved" and go to heaven. It also commands that people should help each other, respect each other and basically treat each other right and good, not doing things like lying, stealing, and hurting others. I think all the rest is secondary to those main points.
Myranda
From: SandraDodd@...
"Most"?
There's part of the biggest problem. Each church wants to pick and choose
which of those are still in effect and which Jesus' atonement cancels out.
And those who whip their kids use old testament justifications. Yet I don't
see many (ANY, but I don't see so many) Jewish families hitting their
children with sticks or belts or anything else.
There are justifications for slavery and prejudice and multiple marriage in
the Bible. National laws and social realities also affect how people
interpret Bible verses.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My DH's step-father is a preacher, and compares the Bible to the internet - people can find things in both places to prove or disprove almost any view. You just have to get down to the bare-bones truth, no matter what the subject is. As for the Bible, you can't get away from the fact that it says you do have to believe in God and Jesus to be "saved" and go to heaven. It also commands that people should help each other, respect each other and basically treat each other right and good, not doing things like lying, stealing, and hurting others. I think all the rest is secondary to those main points.
Myranda
From: SandraDodd@...
"Most"?
There's part of the biggest problem. Each church wants to pick and choose
which of those are still in effect and which Jesus' atonement cancels out.
And those who whip their kids use old testament justifications. Yet I don't
see many (ANY, but I don't see so many) Jewish families hitting their
children with sticks or belts or anything else.
There are justifications for slavery and prejudice and multiple marriage in
the Bible. National laws and social realities also affect how people
interpret Bible verses.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mike Ebbers
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., starsuncloud@c... wrote:
(I apologize for this being online, but your membership profile has
your e-mail listed as "private" so I couldn't use offline.)
A few days ago another poster said that she and you had discussed a
verse in the Bible that implied that good works is a prerequisite to
being saved. Several other posters and myself are not aware of this
verse, and believe that trusting in Christ is the only prereq, as you
state above in your first sentence.
Can you send me the works verse offline? Thanks much.
Mike
mikeebb@...
> Ok, so who are the "True Christians"? I call myself Christian,Ren,
>because to me, it is one that follows Christ. But I don't see myself
>adhering to ANY of the Christian doctrines that are popular, in
>fact, I see them in direct conflict with many things in the Bible
>and with Christs teachings.
> Ren
(I apologize for this being online, but your membership profile has
your e-mail listed as "private" so I couldn't use offline.)
A few days ago another poster said that she and you had discussed a
verse in the Bible that implied that good works is a prerequisite to
being saved. Several other posters and myself are not aware of this
verse, and believe that trusting in Christ is the only prereq, as you
state above in your first sentence.
Can you send me the works verse offline? Thanks much.
Mike
mikeebb@...
gruvystarchild
> Can you send me the works verse offline? Thanks much.Why offline? If it's something I said, then it is completely
>
> Mike
> mikeebb@y...
defendable...I don't go quoting verses unless I'm sure, believe me.
But I don't recall a conversation in which I quoted a verse about
works.
Who did I speak with and in what context? I have no idea what you're
talking about.
And I wanted to clarify what you quoted of me....
I was saying that I saw most church doctrine as being in opposition
to Christs teachings, not my own beliefs (of course, lol)
But it sounded funny the way I wrote it.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/22/02 2:53:50 PM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< But I don't recall a conversation in which I quoted a verse about
works. >>
No, I asked (to you, but to the group) to remind me which verse it was (I saw
it on one of the webpages you sent me) that said works were required. I
couldn't find it and thought maybe you just knew the verse, or enough to look
it up.
The assertion made here was that ALL Protestants believed in grace, not
works. I said no, not all.
Sandra
<< But I don't recall a conversation in which I quoted a verse about
works. >>
No, I asked (to you, but to the group) to remind me which verse it was (I saw
it on one of the webpages you sent me) that said works were required. I
couldn't find it and thought maybe you just knew the verse, or enough to look
it up.
The assertion made here was that ALL Protestants believed in grace, not
works. I said no, not all.
Sandra
Priss Adams
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Mike Ebbers" <mikeebb@y...> wrote:
up good memories whatsoever but I do remember that they did not
believe that trusting in Christ was the only prerequisite for
salvation. They thought that works were also important and that
someone could lose their salvation even if they still "trusted in
Christ." Here's at one of the portions of the Bible that they
based that on, and there were others:
James 2:20 - 24: You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith
without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered
righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the alter?
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his
faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was
fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him
as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a
person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
Also James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith
without deeds is dead.
*****
I'm not a Christian and don't buy into this or into "trusting in
Christ" so you don't need to argue the point with me. I'm just
pointing out verses that churches, protestant ones at that, who don't
believe in salvation through faith alone use to back up their belief.
Priss
> A few days ago another poster said that she and you had discussed ato
> verse in the Bible that implied that good works is a prerequisite
> being saved. Several other posters and myself are not aware ofthis
> verse, and believe that trusting in Christ is the only prereq, asyou
> state above in your first sentence.Mike, I attended the Church of Christ for a while. It doesn't bring
>
> Can you send me the works verse offline? Thanks much.
>
> Mike
> mikeebb@y...
up good memories whatsoever but I do remember that they did not
believe that trusting in Christ was the only prerequisite for
salvation. They thought that works were also important and that
someone could lose their salvation even if they still "trusted in
Christ." Here's at one of the portions of the Bible that they
based that on, and there were others:
James 2:20 - 24: You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith
without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered
righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the alter?
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his
faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was
fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him
as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a
person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
Also James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith
without deeds is dead.
*****
I'm not a Christian and don't buy into this or into "trusting in
Christ" so you don't need to argue the point with me. I'm just
pointing out verses that churches, protestant ones at that, who don't
believe in salvation through faith alone use to back up their belief.
Priss