Pam Hartley

> 1. Where do you stand with TV? If children chose, may they chose to
> watch TV all day. My 15 year old would never do anything else if I would let
> her.

Yes she would. (I know I'm being presumptuous, but she really would eat,
sleep and go to the bathroom at least -- well, I *hope* she would go to the
bathroom <g>. Those alone would lead to other things. She might even speak
occasionally, such as, "Mom, where's the TV Guide?!" and "Are we out of
Cheetos?")

The first thing is that she really has to believe you are not going to
restrict her again. This might take some time. The second thing is that you
will have to really believe and act like whatever amount of TV she is
watching is just fine with you and you would not rather see her with a book
or a puzzle or a rocket science project.

Some people, given no restrictions, watch more TV than others. My husband
watches more than I do. I watch more than my sister does. So there's that
factor.

There's also the factor (and this is the biggest one, I think) that if
something is limited, it is more craved, and binged on, and that includes
TV. If you actually lifted the TV restriction I am willing to bet actual
money that MAYBE for one full week of her waking hours she would do little
but watch TV. Maybe. After that, she's going to want to wash her hair. Look
out a window. Go for a walk. Bake a cake. Read a book. Something. After a
month or two, she's going to be approaching her own "natural" TV rhythms.
That's assuming the following paragraph is true:

And, last for now, if she has other choices of things to do (books, people,
places to go, organized activities if she's into those) she will turn from
the TV to do them (maybe not in the first week or much for the first month;
maybe not ever as often as you'd prefer).

> 2. Cleaning there rooms.... Do you require that your kids keep their
> room clean or just close the door. I'm afraid I would run out of dishes if I
> did this.

At my daughters' age we clean their room for them and sometimes ask for
their help and sometimes they do some without being asked.

I've thought about what I'll do "when they're older" because I do want to
respect their privacy (right now they don't care, I've asked) but on the
other hand, I'd prefer not to have things actually growing in there. <g> I
will not require them to clean their rooms. I will not poke my nose through
their stuff. I imagine what I might do if I need to is say, "I'm missing 17
plates, can you have a look in your room when you have a chance and bring
them if they're there?" and, if I need to, "My darling one, your room smells
like a pack of rabid hogs in heat, the odor is permeating my pores and last
week as I walked down the street garbage collectors crossed to the other
side to avoid me. Will you clean it or at least let me do it?"

> 3. What about when their messiness intrude on others space. I have a
> child that always leave their clothes on the bathroom floor. It drives
> everyone else crazy to have to step over it.

Put a hamper in the bathroom and the person who is driven crazy can toss
them in there.

> 4 How do your husband on board. And I also have my Mother moving in
> and Father-in-law living with us (he has Alztimers and after my dad died Mom
> got very lonely and is moving in with us.) I know my Mom will have a really
> hard time with my daughters messy room. Do I let my daughter deal with her
> grandma? She told grandma she would do better when she gets moved in which
> should be in the next few months.

Grandma would have to adapt here, I'm afraid. Grandma would be permitted to
keep her room in any state of cleanliness (or lack thereof) she wished, and
would have to respect everyone else's right to do the same.

Husbands are trickier, because they do think they have some say in rearing
their children. ;) I send mine lots of posts from lists like this. <g> He's
really, really, really great. But he's not quite so far along as I am. If he
were unwilling to talk and listen, I don't know what I would do besides run
interference so his attitude affected the kids as little as possible. If he
were really awful, I think I'd find him a good home.

Pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/19/02 2:16:24 PM, pamhartley@... writes:

<< I
will not require them to clean their rooms. I will not poke my nose through
their stuff. >>

Kirby gave me permission to go through his room last fall. We put up new
shelves and I organized most (not all) of his stuff. What I didn't touch is
the walk-in closet.

Marty's closet and room really need a pass through. Were I not gimped up, I
would ask him to do it with my help or to scoot so I could do it without his
help, but it will have to wait a bit.

I think the next time I feel the huge urge to organize (in part, in both
cases, to find things which aren't theirs which are suspected of being lost
in their glaciers of stuff), I will say "If there's anything in there you
don't want me to see, locate it and put it in a safe place elsewhere in the
house."

Probably neither of my guys would have anything secret. But if they DID, I
bet they'd end up cleaning out a fair amount of stuff just to get to their
sensitive possessions.

Sandra

Mica

Lately my son has spoken of his sadness, frustration and disappointment
that his friend always beats him (in their backyard games of football or
cricket).

Being aware that we often don't want to be told how to "fix" our
problems, I've tried to listen and empathise. I have to admit that I
have also at different times suggested different ways to look at it,
offered reassurance that his own skills will improve over time and with
practice.

I find it easier to empathise without advising when the disappointment
is related to football because he is not ambitious in that area - but he
has for years expressed ambitions to play international cricket, so I
worry about the effect of these experiences on his self-image.

What do you all think?

Mica
ghal9720@...
Stawell, Victoria, Australia


> -----Original Message-----
> From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 20 October 2002 11:27 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Few questions from a Newbie
>
>
> In a message dated 10/19/02 2:16:24 PM, pamhartley@...
writes:
>
> << I
> will not require them to clean their rooms. I will not poke my nose
> through
> their stuff. >>
>
> Kirby gave me permission to go through his room last fall. We put up
new
> shelves and I organized most (not all) of his stuff. What I didn't
touch
> is
> the walk-in closet.
>
> Marty's closet and room really need a pass through. Were I not gimped
up,
> I
> would ask him to do it with my help or to scoot so I could do it
without
> his
> help, but it will have to wait a bit.
>
> I think the next time I feel the huge urge to organize (in part, in
both
> cases, to find things which aren't theirs which are suspected of being
> lost
> in their glaciers of stuff), I will say "If there's anything in there
you
> don't want me to see, locate it and put it in a safe place elsewhere
in
> the
> house."
>
> Probably neither of my guys would have anything secret. But if they
DID,
> I
> bet they'd end up cleaning out a fair amount of stuff just to get to
their
> sensitive possessions.
>
> Sandra
>
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the_clevengers

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Mica" <ghal9720@b...> wrote:
> I find it easier to empathise without advising when the
disappointment
> is related to football because he is not ambitious in that area -
but he
> has for years expressed ambitions to play international cricket, so
I
> worry about the effect of these experiences on his self-image.
>
> What do you all think?


I don't know if it's helpful, but my college swim coach told us that
everyone who has ever won has also lost, and probably many more times
than they won. He used to enter us into events that he knew we would
lose, just to keep us humble. I had grown up with a you-must-win
mentality from previous coaches, so I found his attitude very
refreshing. He was always pushing us to try new things, even if we
knew we wouldn't be "good" at them. He always emphasized that what
defined "good" lay in the enjoyment of the sport, not in the winning
or losing. He really lived this example too, since he still swam in
Master's swimming and had a lifelong love of many different sports. A
lot of people who were very into competitive sports at an early age
were completely burnt out by college, but he felt that he would be a
success if he could help us all to enjoy what we were doing as much
as wanting to win. I don't know exactly how to pass any of that on,
but I found it very inspiring at the time.

I think one of the best things I do for my kids is to let them see me
lose, and let them see that I still really enjoy myself. I remember
one of the first triathlons that my son watched me finish, he came
running up and asked me if I had won. When I said "no", he looked
incredibly disappointed, so I explained that I might not ever win,
but that I did this sport because I loved it, and that was what was
important. So, in small ways or big, if there are ways that we show
our kids that winning isn't everything, I think that goes a long
ways. Maybe when playing cards or some non-sport activity, you could
discuss it in a context that isn't so personally threatening to him?

Blue Skies,

-Robin-