Alan & Brenda Leonard

> So I was speaking less from an organization stand point and more from a how
> does one motivate the little ones and dh to pitch in.

Rachel Ann,

How about a direct request? As in, "I'm going to clean up the stuff in the
living room. Could you please help me do it?" I usually state that *I'm*
going to do such and such, and would ds or dh please help. It's more fun
with someone else. We toss things to each other, whoever's closer to where
it goes. I also dish out liberal doses of, "Wow, the house looks GREAT!
Thanks for your help." when we're done.

If I want the house clean, then I need to go clean it. That's not
martyrdom, but the bottom line. My dh will clean, but his tolerance for a
mess is more than mine. Do I want to wait until it bothers him, or could I
ask him to help with it now? My choice.

When all else fails, I pick up the cordless phone and call a friend to chat.
I tend to pick up clutter while I'm on the phone! :)

brenda

Betsy

**We toss things to each other, whoever's closer to where
it goes.**

I also use a cleaning method that involves a lot of throwing, typically
throwing things half–way across the room into open bins. Sitting on the
floor and throwing stuff is a lot easier on the joints than repeatedly
bending over and straigtening up to straighten up. <g>

Betsy

Mary Bianco

>From: Betsy <ecsamhill@...>

<<I also use a cleaning method that involves a lot of throwing, typically
throwing things half�way across the room into open bins. Sitting on the
floor and throwing stuff is a lot easier on the joints than repeatedly
bending over and straigtening up to straighten up. <g>>


Heck, that's when I get my exercise!!!

Mary B


_________________________________________________________________
Broadband?�Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

Alan & Brenda Leonard

2/1/03 19:54:

> People on this list have said that their houses don't look like
> tornadoes have gone through them. If that's true, I don't understand
> how they do it.

I have one child. He's six. And he likes to help clean.

My house looks very different when he's had a couple friends over for the
day. Simple mulitiplication -- mess times 3 kids. And one of yours is 3.

Wait. Be patient. They will grow. In the meantime, as my dh says, you put
out fires and shovel the rest under. :)

brenda

Mary Bianco

>From: Alan & Brenda Leonard <abtleo@...>

> > People on this list have said that their houses don't look like
tornadoes have gone through them. If that's true, I don't understand
how they do it.>>



It's really what's important to you and making the time to do what matters.
I have a 17 year old who pretty much cleans up after herself. I do all
laundry though and occasionally glasses and plates from her as well. The
other three are 8, 7 (today) and 2. They DON'T clean up after themselves
regularly without me asking. Then there's my husband who is just as bad as
the 2 year old!!! It's important to me to have a clean neat house. On any
given day, you can walk in here and find order. Sometimes toys are on the
floor but very rarely looking like a tornado. The kids rooms on the other
hand do look like that. I have a hard time seeing it, but it's their rooms
and I bite my tongue a lot. I do need to be able to get into a room in the
dark at night without killing myself. So I ask for at least a path. We can
all live with that. I also need to vacuum in there occasionally. More the
two girls room than my sons. The baby takes food in her room that she shares
with her sister so crumbs abound. I need to vacuum the rug at least every
other day. The girls are good and I usually get in there every day. My son
is a different story. I get in there with the vacuum once a week if I'm
lucky. His floor is scattered with bits of paper and games he's making. It
bothers me but I live with it. He needs to clean tomorrow as we are having a
house full and he knows he can't play with kids in there as there is no
floor room left. The playroom is mostly mine to clean. Only because it
bothers me to see it messed. It's a playroom so the kids don't need it neat.
Neither does my husband. I do. Therefore I clean it. Most of the time, kids
pitch in when they see me cleaning. Sometimes I ask, sometimes not. The
youngest will say no to helping, the others don't. I breeze through the
house often picking up every chance I get. That way it's not overwhelming.
My mom can't stand to talk to me because she can't keep up with me. I'm
constantly from one room to another taking care of whatever needs taking
care of. That's not just cleaning but dogs, cats and kids as well. It's what
I do and what I do well and it's important to me. Just because someone
thinks someone else will see there house as messy is no reason to frett over
what it looks like. If it's a problem, then just do it. If not, it will get
done eventually.

Mary B

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

Heidi <[email protected]>

I also need to vacuum in there occasionally. More the
> two girls room than my sons. The baby takes food in her room that
she shares
> with her sister so crumbs abound. I need to vacuum the rug at least
every
> other day.

Vacuuming in the kids' rooms! aaaagh! It'd void the warranty on my
vacuum cleaner, just going in there with it! LOL

> It's really what's important to you and making the time to do what
matters.


Mary, I like what you have to say about "what's important to you and
making time to do what matters." My mom's not a housekeeper and I
grew up in sloppy (to say the least) surroundings. It was "an issue"
in my childhood. Now that I'm taking care of a house of my own, I
keep it tidier than my mom did. Not because she taught it to me,
though. The place just gets to a certain point and I go "aaaaagh!"
and pick up, just to save my sanity. This happens frequently. my
mom's place is still very cluttered, but not trashed like it was (no
kids to help it along!) My mom isn't as bugged by clutter as I am,
and so I do more picking up than she does.

This comes back to that modeling thing, too. I can't imagine my own
self going ahead and picking up around the place, as a kid, just
because my mom asked me to. My kids do, though. Why? Because they see
me doing it. I'm sure that's it. And me as a kid, NOT picking
up...well, if I never saw my mom doing that...My daughter has a
friends whose house is pretty messy, and her mom has a real hard time
getting her kids to pick up. In homes where things are pristine all
the time, I bet the kids pick up as they go, not ever letting a mess
develop...because their moms do it that way, and they're learning
from her model.

The difference here, between my mom and Sheila is...that Sheila is
spending all this time with her kids. I grew up in an atmosphere
of "benevolent neglect" where my most common after school memory is
my mom napping on the couch with a book over her face, and us
watching TV OR... trashing the house! She loved us, and we were fed
and clothed, but our parents really didn't do things with us. Took us
to various lessons and sports events and the like, but play with us?
Visit? Do a project with us? nah.

Sheila says her kids are creative and energetic, ...I bet anything,
Sheila is herself creative and energetic, and always into cool things.
Gee, I'd trade a clean house for an attentive, fun mom any day, if
that's the trade-off.

peace, Heidi

Angela

Would someone please write something so I have something to read. :0)



Angela in Maine
mailto:unschooling@...
My Unschooling Page
http://userpages.prexar.com/rickshaw/

"What you are shouts so loudly in my ears I cannot hear what you say."
Emerson






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barb Eaton

Angela,
I just copied this off of the HEM Unschooling archives. I just s*bbed
and I'm reading the archives. I'm pretty sure it may have come from here.
It's really good so I wanted to make sure I had a copy. :-)

Barb E
"Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the
seeds you plant."

- Robert Louis Stevenson, Author




Exercises for Mindful Parenting

With these meditative techniques,

raising children can be

a spiritual practice.


by Myla and Jon Kabat-Zinn

1. Try to imagine the world from your child's point of view, purposefully
letting go of your own. Do this every day for at least a few moments to
remind you of who this child is and what he or she faces in the world.

2. Imagine how you appear and sound from your child's point of view, i.e.,
having you as a parent today, in this moment. How might this modify how you
carry yourself in your body and in space, how you speak, and what you say?
How do you want to relate to your child in this moment?

3. Practice seeing your children as perfect just the way they are. See if
you can stay mindful of their sovereignty from moment to moment, and work at
accepting them as they are when it is hardest for you to do so.

4. Be mindful of your expectations of your children and consider whether
they are truly in your child's best interest. Also, be aware of how you
communicate those expectations and how they affect your children.

5. Practice altruism, putting the needs of your children above your own
whenever possible. Then see if there isn't some common ground, where your
true needs can also be met. You may be surprised at how much overlap is
possible, especially if you are patient and strive for balance.

6. When you feel lost, or at a loss, remember to stand still and meditate on
the whole by bringing your full attention to the situation, to your child,
to yourself, to the family. In doing so, you may go beyond thinking, even
good thinking, and perceive intuitively, with the whole of your being, what
needs to be done. If that is not clear in any moment, maybe the best thing
is to not do anything until it becomes clearer. Sometimes it is good to
remain silent.

7. Try embodying silent presence. This will grow out of both formal and
informal mindfulness practice over time if you attend to how you carry
yourself and what you project in body, mind, and speech. Listen carefully.

8. Learn to live with tension without losing your own balance. In Zen and
the Art of Archery, Herrigel describes how he was taught to stand at the
point of highest tension effortlessly without shooting the arrow. At the
right moment, the arrow mysteriously shoots itself. Practice moving into any
moment, however difficult, without trying to change anything and without
having to have a particular outcome occur. Simply bring your full awareness
and presence to this moment. Practice seeing that whatever comes up is
"workable" if you are willing to trust your intuition. Your child needs you
to be a center of balance and trustworthiness, a reliable landmark by which
he or she can take a bearing within his or her own landscape. Arrow and
target need each other. They will find each other best through wise
attention and patience.

9. Apologize to your child when you have betrayed a trust in even a little
way. Apologies are healing. An apology demonstrates that you have thought
about a situation and have come to see it more clearly, or perhaps more from
your child's point of view. But be mindful of being "sorry" too often. It
loses its meaning if you are always saying it, making regret into a habit.
Then it can become a way not to take responsibility for your actions.
Cooking in remorse on occasion is a good meditation. Don't shut off the
stove until the meal is ready.

10. Every child is special, and every child has special needs. Each sees in
an entirely unique way. Hold an image of each child in your heart. Drink in
their being, wishing them well.

11. There are important times when we need to be clear and strong and
unequivocal with children. Let this come as much as possible out of
awareness, generosity, and discernment, rather than out of fear,
self-righteousness, or the desire to control. Mindful parenting does not
mean being overindulgent, neglectful, or weak; nor does it mean being rigid,
domineering, and controlling.

12. The greatest gift you can give your child is your self. This means that
part of your work as a parent is to keep growing in self-knowledge and
awareness. This ongoing work can be furthered by making a time for quiet
contemplation in whatever ways feel comfortable to us. We only have right
now. Let us use it to its best advantage, for our children's sake, and for
our own.

Mindfulness expert Jon Kabat-Zinn is the author of Wherever You Go, There
You Are. Myla Kabat-Zinn has worked as a childbirth educator, birthing
assistant, and environmental activist. Excerpted from Everyday Blessings:
The Inner Work of Mindful Parenting. Copyright 1997 by Myla Kabat-Zinn and
Jon Kabat-Zinn

Shyrley

Angela wrote:

>
> Would someone please write something so I have something to read. :0)
>
>

OK.
Ummmm.
How about this....
Subject: [psychiatry-research] The ADD Hoax: Protect
> Your Child from the False Diagnosis That Is
> Threatening a Generation
>
>
> The ADD Hoax: Protect Your Child from the False
> Diagnosis That Is Threatening a
> Generation
> by Craig Hovey
> Hardcover: 256 pages
> Publisher: Prima Publishing; (January 28, 2003)
> ISBN: 0761535896
> AMAZON - US
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0761535896/darwinanddarwini
> AMAZON - Uk
>
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0761535896/humannaturecom
>
> Book Description
> More than five million children are currently taking
> Ritalin as a result of
> being diagnosed with attention deficit disorder
> (ADD). In some school
> districts, 20 percent of the students are medicated,
> lining up each day at the
> nurse's office to receive their midday dose. With
> such staggering numbers, one
> would think there is indisputable evidence that ADD
> exists and that Ritalin is
> the ideal way to treat it. But the exact opposite is
> true. The ADD Hoax is an
> in-depth look at the crime being committed against
> our children--children who
> are "diagnosed" with ADD and then exposed to the
> effects of Ritalin, a drug
> with massive distribution that is matched in volume
> only by the number of
> uncertainties surrounding it. This up-to-date book
> chronicles the ADD hoax and
> gives parents and other concerned people the
> necessary ammunition to fight this
> epidemic of mistreatment.
>
>
>
>
> News in Brain and Behavioural Sciences - Issue 84 -
> 25th January, 2003
> http://human-nature.com/nibbs/issue84.html
>

Angela

Thanks Shyrley and Barb!! You guys are great!!


Angela in Maine
mailto:unschooling@...
My Unschooling Page
http://userpages.prexar.com/rickshaw/

"What you are shouts so loudly in my ears I cannot hear what you say."
Emerson




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Angela

Barb,
I am in the middle of reading a book by Myla and Jon Kabat-Zinn as we speak.
If fact, I was just thinking I could go and pick it up AND it is the book
that those quotes came from. It is good. It is called "Everyday Blessings,
The inner work of mindful parenting." It is a book that I need to have some
semblance of quiet to absorb though. The kids are busy building houses
underneath the kitchen chairs, taping construction paper to the rungs with
doors and windows cut in it, so they are fairly quiet. Might be a good
time. I like having a list like that I can print out and tack up somewhere
to read often. Thanks Barb!



Angela in Maine
mailto:unschooling@...
My Unschooling Page
http://userpages.prexar.com/rickshaw/

"What you are shouts so loudly in my ears I cannot hear what you say."
Emerson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shyrley

> Angela wrote:
>
> >
> > Would someone please write something so I have something to read. :0)
> >
> >
>

How about this, from a British newspaper.

I'm losing patience with my neighbours, Mr Bush
>
> Terry Jones
> Sunday January 26, 2003
> The Observer
>
> I'm really excited by George Bush's latest reason for bombing
Iraq: he's
> running out of patience. And so am I!
>
> For some time now I've been really pissed off with Mr Johnson,
who lives a
> couple of doors down the street. Well, him and Mr Patel, who
runs the health
> food shop. They both give me queer looks, and I'm sure Mr
Johnson is
> planning something nasty for me, but so far I haven't been able
to discover
> what. I've been round to his place a few times to see what he's
up to, but
> he's got everything well hidden. That's how devious he is.
>
> As for Mr Patel, don't ask me how I know, I just know - from
very good
> sources - that he is, in reality, a Mass Murderer. I have
leafleted the
> street telling them that if we don't act first, he'll pick us
off one by
> one.
>
> Some of my neighbours say, if I've got proof, why don't I go to
the police?
> But that's simply ridiculous. The police will say that they
need evidence of
> a crime with which to charge my neighbours.
>
> They'll come up with endless red tape and quibbling about the
rights and
> wrongs of a pre-emptive strike and all the while Mr Johnson
will be
> finalising his plans to do terrible things to me, while Mr
Patel will be
> secretly murdering people. Since I'm the only one in the street
with a
> decent range of automatic firearms, I reckon it's up to me to
keep the
> peace. But until recently that's been a little difficult. Now,
however,
> George W. Bush has made it clear that all I need to do is run
out of
> patience, and then I can wade in and do whatever I want!
>
> And let's face it, Mr Bush's carefully thought-out policy
towards Iraq is
> the only way to bring about international peace and security.
The one
> certain way to stop Muslim fundamentalist suicide bombers
targeting the US
> or the UK is to bomb a few Muslim countries that have never
threatened us.
>
> That's why I want to blow up Mr Johnson's garage and kill his
wife and
> children. Strike first! That'll teach him a lesson. Then he'll
leave us in
> peace and stop peering at me in that totally unacceptable way.
>
> Mr Bush makes it clear that all he needs to know before bombing
Iraq is that
> Saddam is a really nasty man and that he has weapons of mass
destruction -
> even if no one can find them. I'm certain I've just as much
justification
> for killing Mr Johnson's wife and children as Mr Bush has for
bombing Iraq.
>
> Mr Bush's long-term aim is to make the world a safer place by
eliminating
> 'rogue states' and 'terrorism'. It's such a clever long-term
aim because how
> can you ever know when you've achieved it? How will Mr Bush
know when he's
> wiped out all terrorists? When every single terrorist is dead?
But then a
> terrorist is only a terrorist once he's committed an act of
terror. What
> about would-be terrorists? These are the ones you really want
to eliminate,
> since most of the known terrorists, being suicide bombers, have
already
> eliminated themselves.
>
> Perhaps Mr Bush needs to wipe out everyone who could possibly
be a future
> terrorist? Maybe he can't be sure he's achieved his objective
until every
> Muslim fundamentalist is dead? But then some moderate Muslims
might convert
> to fundamentalism. Maybe the only really safe thing to do would
be for Mr
> Bush to eliminate all Muslims?
>
> It's the same in my street. Mr Johnson and Mr Patel are just
the tip of the
> iceberg. There are dozens of other people in the street who I
don't like and
> who - quite frankly - look at me in odd ways. No one will be
really safe
> until I've wiped them all out.
>
> My wife says I might be going too far but I tell her I'm simply
using the
> same logic as the President of the United States. That shuts
her up.
>
> Like Mr Bush, I've run out of patience, and if that's a good
enough reason
> for the President, it's good enough for me. I'm going to give
the whole
> street two weeks - no, 10 days - to come out in the open and
hand over all
> aliens and interplanetary hijackers, galactic outlaws and
interstellar
> terrorist masterminds, and if they don't hand them over nicely
and say
> 'Thank you', I'm going to bomb the entire street to kingdom
come.
>
> It's just as sane as what George W. Bush is proposing - and, in
contrast to
> what he's intending, my policy will destroy only one street.
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/2/2003 8:47:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

> And me as a kid, NOT picking
> up...well, if I never saw my mom doing that...

I think that one sentence has just given me an answer I've long wondered
about.

When my children were little I cleaned when they were asleep, even if it took
me until morning to scrub everything, when they woke up it was perfect again.
I wanted to not miss a single minute of being with them.

Even now with them being older, I don't think they see me really clean, I do
that when no one is home or everyone is in bed, STILL!

They do see me cook but they don't offer to take part in that... maybe
that's part of the problem, they think elves do it at night and the elves
haven't been visiting THEIR rooms lately!

My youngest has no over taken TWO bedrooms that are both piled high with who
knows what...

Maybe after all these years of mothering it's time to change some things!

Thanks for your post, it was very enlightening.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

>From: "Heidi <bunsofaluminum60@...>"

<<Gee, I'd trade a clean house for an attentive, fun mom any day, if
that's the trade-off.>>



I agree whole heartedly on that one. You can be anal and so crazy about
what's important to you that you do forget about others. When you have
children, you can't do that. I try hard to make sure that doesn't happen.
Occasionally it does, but I still work on that. Believe it or not, my
husband and children have helped me to ease up on what I see as a mess and
what actually is. (can you imagine me worse?!)

That's why I always seem like I'm running around here. Every spare minute
that the kids are eating or doing creepy crawlers is time for me to run and
clean or straighten or wash something. It's what I've grown accustom to
doing. That's also why my husband calls me during the day to make sure I
stopped to eat. I don't have time for it because it's the kids first and
then the animals and then the house. I'll inconvenience myself all day long
for my kids, they won't be in this house and little forever. Then I'll
probably wish they were around to mess things up so I'll have something to
do in my old age without them. Then again, I'll still have Joe. <BEG>

Mary B


_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Kelli Traaseth

Thank you Barb for posting this,

it was on this list before, I love it, I'm going to post it to my Minnesota unschooling list. Thanks!

Kelli


Barb Eaton <homemama@...> wrote:Angela,
I just copied this off of the HEM Unschooling archives. I just s*bbed
and I'm reading the archives. I'm pretty sure it may have come from here.
It's really good so I wanted to make sure I had a copy. :-)

Barb E
"Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the
seeds you plant."

- Robert Louis Stevenson, Author




Exercises for Mindful Parenting

With these meditative techniques,

raising children can be

a spiritual practice.


by Myla and Jon Kabat-Zinn

1. Try to imagine the world from your child's point of view, purposefully
letting go of your own. Do this every day for at least a few moments to
remind you of who this child is and what he or she faces in the world.

2. Imagine how you appear and sound from your child's point of view, i.e.,
having you as a parent today, in this moment. How might this modify how you
carry yourself in your body and in space, how you speak, and what you say?
How do you want to relate to your child in this moment?

3. Practice seeing your children as perfect just the way they are. See if
you can stay mindful of their sovereignty from moment to moment, and work at
accepting them as they are when it is hardest for you to do so.

4. Be mindful of your expectations of your children and consider whether
they are truly in your child's best interest. Also, be aware of how you
communicate those expectations and how they affect your children.

5. Practice altruism, putting the needs of your children above your own
whenever possible. Then see if there isn't some common ground, where your
true needs can also be met. You may be surprised at how much overlap is
possible, especially if you are patient and strive for balance.

6. When you feel lost, or at a loss, remember to stand still and meditate on
the whole by bringing your full attention to the situation, to your child,
to yourself, to the family. In doing so, you may go beyond thinking, even
good thinking, and perceive intuitively, with the whole of your being, what
needs to be done. If that is not clear in any moment, maybe the best thing
is to not do anything until it becomes clearer. Sometimes it is good to
remain silent.

7. Try embodying silent presence. This will grow out of both formal and
informal mindfulness practice over time if you attend to how you carry
yourself and what you project in body, mind, and speech. Listen carefully.

8. Learn to live with tension without losing your own balance. In Zen and
the Art of Archery, Herrigel describes how he was taught to stand at the
point of highest tension effortlessly without shooting the arrow. At the
right moment, the arrow mysteriously shoots itself. Practice moving into any
moment, however difficult, without trying to change anything and without
having to have a particular outcome occur. Simply bring your full awareness
and presence to this moment. Practice seeing that whatever comes up is
"workable" if you are willing to trust your intuition. Your child needs you
to be a center of balance and trustworthiness, a reliable landmark by which
he or she can take a bearing within his or her own landscape. Arrow and
target need each other. They will find each other best through wise
attention and patience.

9. Apologize to your child when you have betrayed a trust in even a little
way. Apologies are healing. An apology demonstrates that you have thought
about a situation and have come to see it more clearly, or perhaps more from
your child's point of view. But be mindful of being "sorry" too often. It
loses its meaning if you are always saying it, making regret into a habit.
Then it can become a way not to take responsibility for your actions.
Cooking in remorse on occasion is a good meditation. Don't shut off the
stove until the meal is ready.

10. Every child is special, and every child has special needs. Each sees in
an entirely unique way. Hold an image of each child in your heart. Drink in
their being, wishing them well.

11. There are important times when we need to be clear and strong and
unequivocal with children. Let this come as much as possible out of
awareness, generosity, and discernment, rather than out of fear,
self-righteousness, or the desire to control. Mindful parenting does not
mean being overindulgent, neglectful, or weak; nor does it mean being rigid,
domineering, and controlling.

12. The greatest gift you can give your child is your self. This means that
part of your work as a parent is to keep growing in self-knowledge and
awareness. This ongoing work can be furthered by making a time for quiet
contemplation in whatever ways feel comfortable to us. We only have right
now. Let us use it to its best advantage, for our children's sake, and for
our own.

Mindfulness expert Jon Kabat-Zinn is the author of Wherever You Go, There
You Are. Myla Kabat-Zinn has worked as a childbirth educator, birthing
assistant, and environmental activist. Excerpted from Everyday Blessings:
The Inner Work of Mindful Parenting. Copyright 1997 by Myla Kabat-Zinn and
Jon Kabat-Zinn


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barb Eaton

Since it is sunday and the paper is so big...Have you made rolled up
tubes and built dome houses (with triangles) and such? It's a lot of fun.
Cover it and you could take it outside and cover it with snow to make an
igloo. Masking tape to hold the tube together. We used duct tape to join
them together. Now if we'd only get enough snow. I was thinking about
covering with trash bags and putting snow ( a little) over it all. Oh well
we still have this month.

Barb E
"Just as our eyes need light in order to see, our minds
need ideas in order to conceive. "

- Napoleon Hill, Author




on 2/2/03 11:12 AM, Angela at unschooling@... wrote:

> Barb,
> I am in the middle of reading a book by Myla and Jon Kabat-Zinn as we speak.
> If fact, I was just thinking I could go and pick it up AND it is the book
> that those quotes came from. It is good. It is called "Everyday Blessings,
> The inner work of mindful parenting." It is a book that I need to have some
> semblance of quiet to absorb though. The kids are busy building houses
> underneath the kitchen chairs, taping construction paper to the rungs with
> doors and windows cut in it, so they are fairly quiet. Might be a good
> time. I like having a list like that I can print out and tack up somewhere
> to read often. Thanks Barb!
>
>
>
> Angela in Maine

[email protected]

I'm not suggesting all housecleaning is compulsion, but it can't be denied
that some is! <g>

I was trying to find, on google, the twin studies with the twins separated at
birth. Haven't found it, but this had a twin study mention.


Compulsions:  can be thought of as attempts to counteract the anxiety caused
by the obsessions

* obssesion about dirt leads to compulsive handwashing

* obsession with neatness leads to compulsive organizing and straitening of
things for hours on end


* these often begin in childhood, typically worsen if untreated

* 2 to 3% of population experiences some degree of disorder

* some genetic factor indicated by twin studies

* serotonin levels have been implicated as a possible source

Rachel Ann

So what about us slobs?
Are we just missing a relevant gene or are we actually a superior being ;-)
I vote for superior just because it makes me feel better about never being
able to find the broom and or dustpan....

be well,
Rachel Ann,
slob since birth




-------Original Message-------

From: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, February 02, 2003 12:35:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: housekeeping

I'm not suggesting all housecleaning is compulsion, but it can't be denied
that some is! <g>

I was trying to find, on google, the twin studies with the twins separated
at
birth. Haven't found it, but this had a twin study mention.


Compulsions: can be thought of as attempts to counteract the anxiety caused

by the obsessions

* obssesion about dirt leads to compulsive handwashing

* obsession with neatness leads to compulsive organizing and straitening of
things for hours on end


* these often begin in childhood, typically worsen if untreated

* 2 to 3% of population experiences some degree of disorder

* some genetic factor indicated by twin studies

* serotonin levels have been implicated as a possible source

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.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shyrley

Rachel Ann wrote:

> So what about us slobs?
>
> Are we just missing a relevant gene or are we actually a superior being ;-)
> I vote for superior just because it makes me feel better about never being
> able to find the broom and or dustpan....
>
> be well,
>
> Rachel Ann,
>
> slob since birth
>

It's because we have more fun things too do and are more broad minded. We are special :-)
My mum always said, have fun with your kids while you can cos all too soon they will be gone. You can clean the house up then.

Shyrley

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/2/03 10:51:29 AM, hindar@... writes:

<< So what about us slobs?
Are we just missing a relevant gene or are we actually a superior being ;-)
>>

Maybe both!

Or not.

I can usually find things. It looks like mounds and piles, but I know
generally what's in them. It's sad, but I've given up thinking I'll grow out
of it. I'll probably grow out of remembering what's where, though.

Sandra

Kelli Traaseth

Exactly Shyrley!

I wouldn't want my children to think back and think I chose housework over them.
The dirty dishes will always be there, the kids, nope! Run out of dishes, yes they need to be done; run out of clothes, yes they to be done.
But I try and let the whole super clean thing slip by.

Kelli




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/2/03 12:51:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
hindar@... writes:

> So what about us slobs?
> Are we just missing a relevant gene or are we actually a superior being ;-)
>
> I vote for superior just because it makes me feel better about never being
> able to find the broom and or dustpan....
>
> be well,
> Rachel Ann,
> slob since birth
>

ME TOO! My mom modeled appropiate behavior. She cleaned up after me all the
time.. She was the "old school" mindset of a womans place is in the home..
being a wife and mother and taking care of everyone. She would ask us to
help, but we rarely did. My dad MADE us wash dishes That was ALL we had to
do 3 girls washing dishes for supper.. not a lot of "work. And by making, he
simply said.."girls, get these dishes done" I hated washing dishes and
fussed about it all the time. My room was atrocious .. when it got piled up
so bad that it bugged Mom.. she cleaned it up. I was terrible then and I've
been a terrible house keeper all my life.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/2/03 7:14:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, grlynbl@...
writes:


> ME TOO! My mom modeled appropiate behavior. She cleaned up after me all
> the
> time.. She was the "old school" mindset of a womans place is in the home..
> being a wife and mother and taking care of everyone. She would ask us to
>
> help, but we rarely did. My dad MADE us wash dishes That was ALL we had to
>
> do 3 girls washing dishes for supper.. not a lot of "work. And by making,
> he
> simply said.."girls, get these dishes done" I hated washing dishes and
> fussed about it all the time. My room was atrocious .. when it got piled
> up
> so bad that it bugged Mom.. she cleaned it up. I was terrible then and
> I've
> been a terrible house keeper all my life.
>

sounds like me, but I didn't even have to wash dishes...... hate cleaning
then hate cleaning now..... just close your eyes when you come in or write
your name in the dust.

Heidi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/2/03 2:30:45 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< So what about us slobs?

Are we just missing a relevant gene or are we actually a superior being ;-)
I vote for superior just because it makes me feel better about never being
able to find the broom and or dustpan.... >>

LeaAnn has a magnet on her fridge that I really like.
It says "women with immaculate houses are boring" or something along those
lines.
Maybe she'll be along shortly to tell us.

Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

Stephanie Elms

> That's why I always seem like I'm running around here. Every
> spare minute
> that the kids are eating or doing creepy crawlers is time for
> me to run and
> clean or straighten or wash something.

Ahhh. SO that is my problem. I am too lazy! LOL! You make me tired Mary just
reading about everything you do....

Stephanie E.

Heidi <[email protected]>

they won't be in this house and little forever. Then I'll
> probably wish they were around to mess things up so I'll have
something to
> do in my old age without them.

Whenever I find a permanent reminder (stain on carpet, nick in wall,
etc) of the messes my kids make, I picture my future self saying "Oh,
yes! This is where Katie sloshed lemonade, when the kids had a fancy
tea party on the round table (fancy coffee table). And here is where
Robby nearly put his box of blocks through the wall, trying to heft
the whole thing upstairs to build a road for his cars..."

And Mary, I bet I know someone "worse" than you. A friend, who has
the cleanest house I've EVER seen, who got ticked at her kids last
year when they *gasp* put a stain on her counter top dyeing Easter
eggs. She actually threatened never to let them do Easter eggs again!
Some day she'll wish she had an Easter dye stain to remind herself
that she has kids.

peace, Heidi

Heidi <[email protected]>

Oh, I love this! My kids are fort-builders to no end. This is
definitely an idea to share with them! We don't have any snow, and do
we EVER have wind! but you could do this and put in the basement and
cover with sheets...wouldn't that be a cool fort?
:D thanks Barb!
Heidi

--- In [email protected], Barb Eaton <homemama@i...>
wrote:
> Since it is sunday and the paper is so big...Have you made
rolled up
> tubes and built dome houses (with triangles) and such?

Heidi <[email protected]>

Did you ever seen the Saturday Night LIve skit, a spoof
on "Obsession" (the perfume) commercials? It's just like an Obsession
commercial, with a white background, and lots of people in classy
black clothing, being sophisticated and sexy, at a party...and one
woman, going around cleaning up! They called it "Compulsion." Pretty
funny. One of the funny skits that came out after the Original Not
Ready for Prime Time Players moved on.

On the topic of OCD, best friend's hubby has OCD, and it is serotonin
related. He takes serotonin re-uptake inhibitors to correct his
problem...anti-depressants, essentially.

peace, Heidi


--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> I'm not suggesting all housecleaning is compulsion, but it can't be
denied
> that some is! <g>
>
> I was trying to find, on google, the twin studies with the twins
separated at
> birth. Haven't found it, but this had a twin study mention.
>
>
> Compulsions:  can be thought of as attempts to counteract the
anxiety caused
> by the obsessions
>
> * obssesion about dirt leads to compulsive handwashing
>
> * obsession with neatness leads to compulsive organizing and
straitening of
> things for hours on end
>
>
> * these often begin in childhood, typically worsen if untreated
>
> * 2 to 3% of population experiences some degree of disorder
>
> * some genetic factor indicated by twin studies
>
> * serotonin levels have been implicated as a possible source

Barb Eaton

Heidi,
Your welcome. :-) I'm also pretty sure one of the funshops at SC
conference did some of this too. It's lots of fun. <G>

Barb E

The best preparation for the future is a happy today :-)

-Sandra Dodd



on 2/3/03 8:31 AM, Heidi <bunsofaluminum60@...> at
bunsofaluminum60@... wrote:

> Oh, I love this! My kids are fort-builders to no end. This is
> definitely an idea to share with them! We don't have any snow, and do
> we EVER have wind! but you could do this and put in the basement and
> cover with sheets...wouldn't that be a cool fort?
> :D thanks Barb!
> Heidi

Heidi <[email protected]>

Yeah, I have a feeling my oldest girl is going to be like my mom. The
modeling...model LOL...doesn't go across the board. There's got to be
something genetic to it, too. My mom isn't a tidy person, but my dad
is, but he didn't keep the house tidy, just griped about it all the
time. I think I got my organization "gene" from him. My girl, OTOH,
is a non-putter-away-of-things-when-she's-finished, just like my mom.
Even though she's seen me put things away when finished, and she will
do so when I ask her...but wouldn't if she weren't asked. She just
wouldn't see it.

I pray she finds a relaxed hubby, OR a tidy hubby who is willing to
clean house!

Heidi

>
> ME TOO! My mom modeled appropiate behavior. She cleaned up after
me all the
> time.. She was the "old school" mindset of a womans place is in the
home..
> being a wife and mother and taking care of everyone. She would
ask us to
> help, but we rarely did. My dad MADE us wash dishes That was ALL
we had to
> do 3 girls washing dishes for supper.. not a lot of "work. And by
making, he
> simply said.."girls, get these dishes done" I hated washing
dishes and
> fussed about it all the time. My room was atrocious .. when it got
piled up
> so bad that it bugged Mom.. she cleaned it up. I was terrible
then and I've
> been a terrible house keeper all my life.
>
> Teresa
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]