Honor (was re: bible questions)
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In a message dated 10/15/02 4:19:30 PM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:
<< ***I don't know how you can deem who is worthy of honor and not
worthy......isn't that being self righteous and judgemental?***
accompanying behaviors such as respect, honor, devotion, love, etc. involve
the mindset and judgment of the person who is going to respect, honor, etc.
Someone can tell me to worship God, honor my parents and respect my elders,
and if I deem that to be God telling me that, I will try to do it if my
primary philosophical consideration is to obey God.
Did God love Jesus and Judas equally?
Do we respect a serial killer lying on the witness stand as much as we
respect an ultra-patient and wise judge?
Do I respect a neighbor whose kids are happy and attached to their parents as
much as one who screams insults frequently, and whose children are already
sneaky and lying?
If you only "honor" someone or something because you were told to there
really is not any "honor" involved, but only some surface etiquette.
Did someone already put up a definition of "honor"?
Lots of everyday words are used by people who have never spent half a minute
pondering what that really means, what that would really feel like.
This is in SCA terms, but it was written by me a few years ago, and it's
applicable:
http://sandradodd.com/humility/formality7
Sandra
<< ***I don't know how you can deem who is worthy of honor and not
worthy......isn't that being self righteous and judgemental?***
>>I don't know this thread back to the beginning, but any of the emotions and
accompanying behaviors such as respect, honor, devotion, love, etc. involve
the mindset and judgment of the person who is going to respect, honor, etc.
Someone can tell me to worship God, honor my parents and respect my elders,
and if I deem that to be God telling me that, I will try to do it if my
primary philosophical consideration is to obey God.
Did God love Jesus and Judas equally?
Do we respect a serial killer lying on the witness stand as much as we
respect an ultra-patient and wise judge?
Do I respect a neighbor whose kids are happy and attached to their parents as
much as one who screams insults frequently, and whose children are already
sneaky and lying?
If you only "honor" someone or something because you were told to there
really is not any "honor" involved, but only some surface etiquette.
Did someone already put up a definition of "honor"?
Lots of everyday words are used by people who have never spent half a minute
pondering what that really means, what that would really feel like.
This is in SCA terms, but it was written by me a few years ago, and it's
applicable:
http://sandradodd.com/humility/formality7
Sandra
Joseph Fuerst
Honor: In Search of a Definition
By Dr. Robert K. Holyer
Dean of the Faculty
"One can know honor without defining it." At least, this is what one of our
sister institutions assures its students. And there is, no doubt, something
to it. There are many concepts of which we have a working knowledge for
which we cannot give a precise definition. And honor may be one of them.
To be an honorable person, then, is not just to do the right thing, nor
simply to give moral considerations a central place in our lives. It is also
to want to be known and trusted by others -- especially by other honorable
people -- as this sort of person. And honorable people will go to great
lengths to maintain these bonds of trust or to re-establish them when they
are broken.
But again, if we were to stop here we would miss the most difficult and
challenging dimension of honor. To belong to a community of honor is to take
a special interest in the moral health of that community and its members
Sandra,
I found the above quote through a google search. I tried to look it up in
the dictionary....but I can't seem to find mine since our crazy move to the
new house! I think your article explored the issue from the angle I tried
to get at. The original post was something about how someone didn't think
anyone should need to follow the commandment to honor you father and mother
since many mothers and father are abusive to children.
I responded with some of my experience in choosing to honor my mother
and father (who had been abusive....especially dad). I would think truly
'honoring' could only come from one's personal decision and
commitment.....*not* becuse one has been told to by God or a a minister.
It will take me some time to sort out all that this experience meant to
me. I think I decided to 'honor' my parents years ago (when I became a
mature adult)....meaning to look at them more in terms of your
description....to see them and grow in understanding of their wonderfulness.
Yet, it has changed me ....though I don't yet fully know or realize the
changes. After dad's funeral 10/5....it was as if I went into a cocoon for
a week - 10 days. Right now I'm slowly emerging from that cocoon. We'll
see what the results are with time!
Susan
By Dr. Robert K. Holyer
Dean of the Faculty
"One can know honor without defining it." At least, this is what one of our
sister institutions assures its students. And there is, no doubt, something
to it. There are many concepts of which we have a working knowledge for
which we cannot give a precise definition. And honor may be one of them.
To be an honorable person, then, is not just to do the right thing, nor
simply to give moral considerations a central place in our lives. It is also
to want to be known and trusted by others -- especially by other honorable
people -- as this sort of person. And honorable people will go to great
lengths to maintain these bonds of trust or to re-establish them when they
are broken.
But again, if we were to stop here we would miss the most difficult and
challenging dimension of honor. To belong to a community of honor is to take
a special interest in the moral health of that community and its members
Sandra,
I found the above quote through a google search. I tried to look it up in
the dictionary....but I can't seem to find mine since our crazy move to the
new house! I think your article explored the issue from the angle I tried
to get at. The original post was something about how someone didn't think
anyone should need to follow the commandment to honor you father and mother
since many mothers and father are abusive to children.
I responded with some of my experience in choosing to honor my mother
and father (who had been abusive....especially dad). I would think truly
'honoring' could only come from one's personal decision and
commitment.....*not* becuse one has been told to by God or a a minister.
It will take me some time to sort out all that this experience meant to
me. I think I decided to 'honor' my parents years ago (when I became a
mature adult)....meaning to look at them more in terms of your
description....to see them and grow in understanding of their wonderfulness.
Yet, it has changed me ....though I don't yet fully know or realize the
changes. After dad's funeral 10/5....it was as if I went into a cocoon for
a week - 10 days. Right now I'm slowly emerging from that cocoon. We'll
see what the results are with time!
Susan
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 6:48 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Honor (was re: bible questions)
>
> In a message dated 10/15/02 4:19:30 PM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:
>
> << ***I don't know how you can deem who is worthy of honor and not
> worthy......isn't that being self righteous and judgemental?***
> >>
>
> I don't know this thread back to the beginning, but any of the emotions
and
> accompanying behaviors such as respect, honor, devotion, love, etc.
involve
> the mindset and judgment of the person who is going to respect, honor,
etc.
>
> Someone can tell me to worship God, honor my parents and respect my
elders,
> and if I deem that to be God telling me that, I will try to do it if my
> primary philosophical consideration is to obey God.
>
> Did God love Jesus and Judas equally?
> Do we respect a serial killer lying on the witness stand as much as we
> respect an ultra-patient and wise judge?
> Do I respect a neighbor whose kids are happy and attached to their parents
as
> much as one who screams insults frequently, and whose children are already
> sneaky and lying?
>
> If you only "honor" someone or something because you were told to there
> really is not any "honor" involved, but only some surface etiquette.
>
> Did someone already put up a definition of "honor"?
> Lots of everyday words are used by people who have never spent half a
minute
> pondering what that really means, what that would really feel like.
>
> This is in SCA terms, but it was written by me a few years ago, and it's
> applicable:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/humility/formality7
>
> Sandra
>
>
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In a message dated 10/18/02 6:38:27 AM, fuerst@... writes:
<< To be an honorable person, then, is not just to do the right thing, nor
simply to give moral considerations a central place in our lives. It is also
to want to be known and trusted by others -- especially by other honorable
people -- as this sort of person. And honorable people will go to great
lengths to maintain these bonds of trust or to re-establish them when they
are broken. >>
But that's about being honorable--behaving in such a way that others will
trust you, respect you, want to be like you... so that they will honor you.
Something can be digestible or bendable or photographable, but unless someone
else digests, bends or photographs, there is no completion of the circuit.
You can take care to become and remain honorable (having the worthy potential
to be honored by others) but only the others can honor you. And you can't
send them the bill. <g> They have to come to that feeling about you
naturally and spontaneously.
Sandra
<< To be an honorable person, then, is not just to do the right thing, nor
simply to give moral considerations a central place in our lives. It is also
to want to be known and trusted by others -- especially by other honorable
people -- as this sort of person. And honorable people will go to great
lengths to maintain these bonds of trust or to re-establish them when they
are broken. >>
But that's about being honorable--behaving in such a way that others will
trust you, respect you, want to be like you... so that they will honor you.
Something can be digestible or bendable or photographable, but unless someone
else digests, bends or photographs, there is no completion of the circuit.
You can take care to become and remain honorable (having the worthy potential
to be honored by others) but only the others can honor you. And you can't
send them the bill. <g> They have to come to that feeling about you
naturally and spontaneously.
Sandra