(Fwd) Re: [1PP] Single HS Moms
Don and Crys Meaker
[This message contained attachments]
Joel Hawthorne
And now that I have actually finished reading the WHOLE post to which I am responding.... I would like to preface my remarks with expressions of at least sympathy for the terrible dilemma that Susabelle finds herself in. I just don't believe in ADD ADHD.
I believe there are kids who don't fit in with the way we have organized the world for them who would have no particular problems in a more humanely organized world. It is very difficult to reorganize one's personal world to be that more humane place. It
can be done.
"I guess I am not ready to give up my lifestyle in exchange for homeschooling my kids." is the basic challenge. Yes some spirited kids need particular kinds of arrangements in their lives which may be different than more relaxed, at ease, types." People do
what they feel they must. and now I will say what I started to say.
More than anything I would like all people who are Dx with ADD ADHD to research the topic more thoroughly. I personally believe it is a psychiatric construct with about as much usefulness as most other psychiatric constructs which is to say not a whole
heck of a lot.
I think it is primarily, a pharmaceutical industry driven creation which is lining the pockets of stockholders and drugging needlessly tens of thousands of people.
Of course it helps some people with alternate experiences and perceptions feel more comfortable in a world that is intolerant of diversity and shapes people for the heartless
needs of the military/medical/industrial/educational complex. Which services the need for power and control of a tiny fraction of the people at the expense of most people. Hell no I won't go!
And here ends the rant.
If this perennial topic doesn't suit people's needs on the list I would be happy to chat privately.
Don and Crys Meaker wrote:
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
I believe there are kids who don't fit in with the way we have organized the world for them who would have no particular problems in a more humanely organized world. It is very difficult to reorganize one's personal world to be that more humane place. It
can be done.
"I guess I am not ready to give up my lifestyle in exchange for homeschooling my kids." is the basic challenge. Yes some spirited kids need particular kinds of arrangements in their lives which may be different than more relaxed, at ease, types." People do
what they feel they must. and now I will say what I started to say.
More than anything I would like all people who are Dx with ADD ADHD to research the topic more thoroughly. I personally believe it is a psychiatric construct with about as much usefulness as most other psychiatric constructs which is to say not a whole
heck of a lot.
I think it is primarily, a pharmaceutical industry driven creation which is lining the pockets of stockholders and drugging needlessly tens of thousands of people.
Of course it helps some people with alternate experiences and perceptions feel more comfortable in a world that is intolerant of diversity and shapes people for the heartless
needs of the military/medical/industrial/educational complex. Which services the need for power and control of a tiny fraction of the people at the expense of most people. Hell no I won't go!
And here ends the rant.
If this perennial topic doesn't suit people's needs on the list I would be happy to chat privately.
Don and Crys Meaker wrote:
> I have a friend on another list who has been talking about home or unschooling her kids. Would anyone have any advice for her? I have heard of ADD ADHD parents home/unschooling (I hope to be able to do it with Devin myself). I'd hate for her to give up.best wishes
>
> Pax,
> Crys
>
> --
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Lynda
The condition whose current pc title is ADD/ADHD does exist. These kids
were treated with diet change and cognitive "training" prior to the
pharmaceutical companies discovering a "gold mine." What is trully scary
is that 99.9% of the kids that are diagnosed with this are not and their
diagnosis comes from teachers who don't want to be bothered with "normal"
active little boys. Shrinks and GP's have found a "gold mine" also and
don't even do testings, simply take referrals and pass out the pills.
What is really interesting is that the condition was not "discovered/named"
until after the world went bananas vaccinating their children. I read an
article about this a few years ago and the ol' light bulb went on. Here I
sat with four boys, three of whom fit the clinical discription of ADD/ADHD,
one who does not. Guess who wasn't vaccinated.
And the scariest thing of all is that now you aren't even given a choice
about some vaccinations, they do Hep B on defenseless little babies before
they even put them in the isolet in front of the viewing window! Hep B, of
course, is whole other thread and one that makes my teeth grind!
Lynda
----------
least sympathy for the terrible dilemma that Susabelle finds herself in. I
just don't believe in ADD ADHD.
organized world. It is very difficult to reorganize one's personal world
to be that more humane place. It
were treated with diet change and cognitive "training" prior to the
pharmaceutical companies discovering a "gold mine." What is trully scary
is that 99.9% of the kids that are diagnosed with this are not and their
diagnosis comes from teachers who don't want to be bothered with "normal"
active little boys. Shrinks and GP's have found a "gold mine" also and
don't even do testings, simply take referrals and pass out the pills.
What is really interesting is that the condition was not "discovered/named"
until after the world went bananas vaccinating their children. I read an
article about this a few years ago and the ol' light bulb went on. Here I
sat with four boys, three of whom fit the clinical discription of ADD/ADHD,
one who does not. Guess who wasn't vaccinated.
And the scariest thing of all is that now you aren't even given a choice
about some vaccinations, they do Hep B on defenseless little babies before
they even put them in the isolet in front of the viewing window! Hep B, of
course, is whole other thread and one that makes my teeth grind!
Lynda
----------
> From: Joel Hawthorne <jhawthorne@...>am responding.... I would like to preface my remarks with expressions of at
>
> And now that I have actually finished reading the WHOLE post to which I
least sympathy for the terrible dilemma that Susabelle finds herself in. I
just don't believe in ADD ADHD.
> I believe there are kids who don't fit in with the way we have organizedthe world for them who would have no particular problems in a more humanely
organized world. It is very difficult to reorganize one's personal world
to be that more humane place. It
> can be done.
>
Jeff & Diane Gwirtz
> they even put them in the isolet in front of the viewing window! Hep B, ofI'm curious about the Hep B vaccine. Neither of my teenagers have
> course, is whole other thread and one that makes my teeth grind!
>
had it yet, although they did have the other vaccinations when they
were younger.
Diane in KS
Lynda
Well, I have several problems with Hep B. One has nothing to do with the
vaccine itself, simply how it was tested (which can be filed under
genocide). The others are that they haven't a clue how long it lasts, they
know there are severe side affects that appear down the road (neurological)
and they are tooting it with scare tactics to folks that are not (using CDC
guidelines) even remotely likely to be exposed. If you think your children
will be using I.V. drugs, if you think your children will be having sex
with I.V. drug users, if you think your children will be working in a
hospital and be exposed to bodily fluids, well then, think about it. But
please tell me what new born is going to be using I.V. drugs or having sex
with an I.V. drug user????? And why the push to have children have the
shot before starting school??? This is pure unadulterated $$$$ campaign by
the drug companies!!!!
Lynda
----------
vaccine itself, simply how it was tested (which can be filed under
genocide). The others are that they haven't a clue how long it lasts, they
know there are severe side affects that appear down the road (neurological)
and they are tooting it with scare tactics to folks that are not (using CDC
guidelines) even remotely likely to be exposed. If you think your children
will be using I.V. drugs, if you think your children will be having sex
with I.V. drug users, if you think your children will be working in a
hospital and be exposed to bodily fluids, well then, think about it. But
please tell me what new born is going to be using I.V. drugs or having sex
with an I.V. drug user????? And why the push to have children have the
shot before starting school??? This is pure unadulterated $$$$ campaign by
the drug companies!!!!
Lynda
----------
> From: "Jeff & Diane Gwirtz" <jagwirtz@...>B, of
>
> > they even put them in the isolet in front of the viewing window! Hep
> > course, is whole other thread and one that makes my teeth grind!
> >
> I'm curious about the Hep B vaccine. Neither of my teenagers have
> had it yet, although they did have the other vaccinations when they
> were younger.
>
> Diane in KS
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
Lynda
the newest is Hep A. the last testing of Hep B was about 1990 and was done
without consent of all the children using IHS in Alaska. These now young
adults are experiencing many, many neurological problems. The Hep A had
its last testing done in about 1994. Again, it was done without consent on
the children of the Four Corners using IHS services.
Now, Hep A is the one most likely to be caught from unsanitary conditions
(restaurants, etc.). It is also the easiest to cure if caught in a timely
manner. Shot of anti-globulin and watch. In fact, about 25% of the
population has been exposed to Hep A and doesn't even know it and has
suffered no ill effects from this exposure.
Most of these vaccines are here to make drug companies rich and they use
scare tactics to accomplish this. the numbers they use are skewed to sell
the drugs.
For example, they quote somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 deaths a year
from Hep B in children. They don't quote that these deaths occured to
children that had blood transfusions or were born to infected parents. In
the later case, the vaccine wouldn't have done an ounce of good. What they
don't quote is that more kids have died as a direct result of getting the
shots than ever did from the disease.
Lynda
----------
without consent of all the children using IHS in Alaska. These now young
adults are experiencing many, many neurological problems. The Hep A had
its last testing done in about 1994. Again, it was done without consent on
the children of the Four Corners using IHS services.
Now, Hep A is the one most likely to be caught from unsanitary conditions
(restaurants, etc.). It is also the easiest to cure if caught in a timely
manner. Shot of anti-globulin and watch. In fact, about 25% of the
population has been exposed to Hep A and doesn't even know it and has
suffered no ill effects from this exposure.
Most of these vaccines are here to make drug companies rich and they use
scare tactics to accomplish this. the numbers they use are skewed to sell
the drugs.
For example, they quote somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 deaths a year
from Hep B in children. They don't quote that these deaths occured to
children that had blood transfusions or were born to infected parents. In
the later case, the vaccine wouldn't have done an ounce of good. What they
don't quote is that more kids have died as a direct result of getting the
shots than ever did from the disease.
Lynda
----------
>years
> From: Hsmotgo@...
>
> Lynda,
> This Hep B vaccination, is this the new one they started around 9 or 10
> ago? I think that is the one my oldest didn't have, and the doc iswanting
> to do it now. I am holding off cause I don't know all the details. Fillme
> in?
> Teresa
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
[email protected]
Lynda,
This Hep B vaccination, is this the new one they started around 9 or 10 years
ago? I think that is the one my oldest didn't have, and the doc is wanting
to do it now. I am holding off cause I don't know all the details. Fill me
in?
Teresa
This Hep B vaccination, is this the new one they started around 9 or 10 years
ago? I think that is the one my oldest didn't have, and the doc is wanting
to do it now. I am holding off cause I don't know all the details. Fill me
in?
Teresa
David Albert
Hsmotgo@... wrote:
state requirements on this subject, but I take a middle position on the
vaccination issue generally, and think they all should be evaluated
individually, although I have no answer to the argument that the total
load of vaccinations (rather than the negative effects of any individual
vaccine) is responsible for all kinds of ills, from autism to
auto-immune disorders. This may be true, but is impossible to evaluate,
and impossible to separate out from effects, say, of living in homes
made of new building materials, or the fact that most of our food is now
filled with corn products (syrup and starch) to which many may have
minor allergies. I also have no problem with people who will not
vaccinate because they are ethically perturbed by animal testing.
I would never allow my kids to receive hep B vaccine when they were
babies. It is unnecessary and, since the problem years for contracting
hep B are ages 12-25, we don't really know whether successful
immunization would result. Schools are now requiring hep B for school
entry (even though it is relatively expensive), because they figure that
is the time they can hang the school card over parents' heads.
Nonetheless, at ages 9 and 10, I did vaccinate my kids for hep B (and
hep A -- we were going to India) -- there is no such thing as complete
control over teenage behavior, and hep B (and C) are much easier to
transmit than HIV, and can be just as lethal. As a rule, we immunize as
late as possible, only against conditions we figure it is likely the
kids will encounter, and only with those vaccines which we believe
actually work! (hence, no pertussis, or cholera), and, when given a
choice, only with those with the least known side effects (Salk versus
Sabin vaccine for polio.)
A good rule is not to expect your doctor to explain all the options (in
some health systems, his "quality" ranking -- and hence remuneration --
may actually be tied to his immunization rates!) You just have to do
the research yourself, and do the best you can. I promised myself I
wouldn't get into another vaccination debate -- so I won't (and won't
respond to people with other views on this subject, which may be just as
valid) -- just trying to tell you where my family's experience has led.
David Albert
--
Anthony Manousos calls "And the Skylark Sings with Me: Adventures in
Homeschooling and Community-Based Education" "a joyous celebration of
the creative potential in every child." To read a sample chapter,
reviewers' comments, or the foreword, and for ordering info., visit my
website at http://www.skylarksings.com
> From: Hsmotgo@...I used to work in public health -- specifically the body which made
>
> Lynda,
> This Hep B vaccination, is this the new one they started around 9 or
> 10 years
> ago? I think that is the one my oldest didn't have, and the doc is
> wanting
> to do it now. I am holding off cause I don't know all the details.
> Fill me
> in?
> Teresa
state requirements on this subject, but I take a middle position on the
vaccination issue generally, and think they all should be evaluated
individually, although I have no answer to the argument that the total
load of vaccinations (rather than the negative effects of any individual
vaccine) is responsible for all kinds of ills, from autism to
auto-immune disorders. This may be true, but is impossible to evaluate,
and impossible to separate out from effects, say, of living in homes
made of new building materials, or the fact that most of our food is now
filled with corn products (syrup and starch) to which many may have
minor allergies. I also have no problem with people who will not
vaccinate because they are ethically perturbed by animal testing.
I would never allow my kids to receive hep B vaccine when they were
babies. It is unnecessary and, since the problem years for contracting
hep B are ages 12-25, we don't really know whether successful
immunization would result. Schools are now requiring hep B for school
entry (even though it is relatively expensive), because they figure that
is the time they can hang the school card over parents' heads.
Nonetheless, at ages 9 and 10, I did vaccinate my kids for hep B (and
hep A -- we were going to India) -- there is no such thing as complete
control over teenage behavior, and hep B (and C) are much easier to
transmit than HIV, and can be just as lethal. As a rule, we immunize as
late as possible, only against conditions we figure it is likely the
kids will encounter, and only with those vaccines which we believe
actually work! (hence, no pertussis, or cholera), and, when given a
choice, only with those with the least known side effects (Salk versus
Sabin vaccine for polio.)
A good rule is not to expect your doctor to explain all the options (in
some health systems, his "quality" ranking -- and hence remuneration --
may actually be tied to his immunization rates!) You just have to do
the research yourself, and do the best you can. I promised myself I
wouldn't get into another vaccination debate -- so I won't (and won't
respond to people with other views on this subject, which may be just as
valid) -- just trying to tell you where my family's experience has led.
David Albert
--
Anthony Manousos calls "And the Skylark Sings with Me: Adventures in
Homeschooling and Community-Based Education" "a joyous celebration of
the creative potential in every child." To read a sample chapter,
reviewers' comments, or the foreword, and for ordering info., visit my
website at http://www.skylarksings.com
June Hodge
There is a site I've seen once on vaccinations: www.thinktwice.com
June bug
-----Original Message-----
From: Hsmotgo@... <Hsmotgo@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, November 21, 1999 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] (Fwd) Re: [1PP] Single HS Moms
June bug
-----Original Message-----
From: Hsmotgo@... <Hsmotgo@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, November 21, 1999 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] (Fwd) Re: [1PP] Single HS Moms
>From: Hsmotgo@...years
>
>Lynda,
>This Hep B vaccination, is this the new one they started around 9 or 10
>ago? I think that is the one my oldest didn't have, and the doc is wantingme
>to do it now. I am holding off cause I don't know all the details. Fill
>in?
>Teresa
>
>>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
Joel Hawthorne
My understanding of Hep B is that it is primarily blood borne. Injection
drug users and health care workers being primarily high risk groups. Other
than money I don't get the rush to immunize large groups of the population.
Pharmaceutical companies grow fat. I was immunized because I work in a
high risk occupation. I would not allow my kids to be vaccinated for this
one at all unless they were going to be involved in injection drug use
(specifically sharing needles or with habits so out of control that they
don't know they are sharing needles) or becoming health care workers.
I don't quite know why travel would be a risk factor. Hepatitis A is can be
transmitted fecally and so is very contagious but is also not so serious as
B. I could go look this up but am too lazy. Why for travel?
Is B sexually transmitted?.....I am blushing as I should know this but don't
remember. I have only worried about the blood borne version of Hep B & C.
David Albert wrote: snip Schools are now requiring hep B for school snip
I promised myself I
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
drug users and health care workers being primarily high risk groups. Other
than money I don't get the rush to immunize large groups of the population.
Pharmaceutical companies grow fat. I was immunized because I work in a
high risk occupation. I would not allow my kids to be vaccinated for this
one at all unless they were going to be involved in injection drug use
(specifically sharing needles or with habits so out of control that they
don't know they are sharing needles) or becoming health care workers.
I don't quite know why travel would be a risk factor. Hepatitis A is can be
transmitted fecally and so is very contagious but is also not so serious as
B. I could go look this up but am too lazy. Why for travel?
Is B sexually transmitted?.....I am blushing as I should know this but don't
remember. I have only worried about the blood borne version of Hep B & C.
David Albert wrote: snip Schools are now requiring hep B for school snip
I promised myself I
> wouldn't get into another vaccination debate -- so I won't (and won'tbest wishes
> respond to people with other views on this subject, which may be just as
> valid) -- just trying to tell you where my family's experience has led.
>
> David Albert
>
> --
> Anthony Manousos calls "And the Skylark Sings with Me: Adventures in
> Homeschooling and Community-Based Education" "a joyous celebration of
> the creative potential in every child."
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/