"Words will never hurt me" is wrong and very untrue.
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/9/02 8:47:28 AM, myrandab@... writes:
<< I find it sad that you think I would do the same. Those who know me would
never think that for a second. >>
was written about:
<<My mom said "I'm not hurting you," regardless of my feelings and
statements. >>
So if he says in five or ten years "Yes, it did really make me feel bad that
you called me lazy, and always thought I was lazy and that I wasn't curious,"
THEN you'll stop?
Because then it will be too late.
Does HE see himself as lazy? Does he have much choice, if that is his name?
I think defining a child as lazy, insisting to a big list of unschoolers that
you KNOW he's lazy but that you don't really mind, and insisting that you
will continue to call him lazybones is as bad as pulling toes until they pop,
or tickling until kids cry.
No, I think it's worse. Because ticking and toe joints aren't a part of a
child's self image and of what they see as their potential and their
limitations.
Here are some other people's opinions on words as harmful:
A Jewish folktale, set in nineteenth century Eastern Europe, tells of a man
who went through a small community slandering the rabbi. One day, feeling
suddenly remorseful, he begged the rabbi for forgiveness and offered to
undergo any form of penance to make amends. The rabbi told him to take a
feather pillow from his home, cut it open, scatter the feathers to the wind.
The man did as he was told and returned to the rabbi. He asked, "Am I now
forgiven?"
"Almost," came the response. "You just have to perform one last task: Go and
gather all the feathers.
"B 栀愀猀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 猀挀愀琀琀攀爀攀搀 琀栀攀洀⸀∀缀∀倀爀攀挀椀猀攀氀礀Ⰰ∀ 琀栀攀 爀愀戀戀
椀 愀渀猀眀攀爀攀搀⸀ 缀缀吀栀攀 爀愀戀戀椀 椀渀 琀栀椀猀 猀琀漀爀礀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀猀 琀栀
愀琀 眀漀爀搀猀 搀攀昀椀渀攀 漀甀爀 瀀氀愀挀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀氀搀⸀ 伀渀挀攀 漀甀爀 瀀氀愀
挀攠ጀ椀渀 漀琀栀攀爀 眀漀爀搀猀Ⰰ 漀甀爀 爀攀瀀甀琀愀琀椀漀渠ጀ椀猀 搀攀昀椀渀攀搀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀
瘀攀爀礀 栀愀爀搀 琀漀 挀栀愀渀最攀Ⰰ 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀氀礀 椀昀 椀琀 椀猀 渀攀最愀琀椀瘀攀⸀
缀缀⠀瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 氀漀渀最攀爀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀Ⰰ 愀琀
http://www.church-at-home.org/editorial/wordsthathurt.html)
----------------
We all have negative echoes of the past, the unkind words said and the
insults hurled when we were small and defenseless. Those elements stored in
our psyche give their consent to someone putting us down. Abusers know it too
well. They try to make the abuse-victims believe that they are worthless and
deserve the treatment meted out to them. When victims buy that, they are
virtually trapped. They stop even trying to get out of the abuse situation.
If somebody says, "You are no good, or you are a worthless human being, " and
you say to yourself , "That's right! I am no good, I am worthless, " you have
bit the hook. When you endorse a negative label emotional upset, anger,
sadness, and hurt, are bound to follow.
http://www.mindpub.com/art102.htm
----------------------------------
the following is from an article on the connection between low self esteem
and chronic illness:
http://fibrofighter.tripod.com/29selfest.htm
To help pinpoint possible contributors to your feelings about your
self-worth, ask yourself these questions:
Is there anyone in your life right now who is feeding you negative,
inappropriate messages about yourself?
How do these messages make you feel?
What are you going to do about it?
What circumstances of your life have lowered your self-esteem and
self-confidence?
How valid were these circumstances as determinants of your worth?
No one has the right to offer information or opinions that might have lo
ng-term negative impacts on another’s self-esteem. Children, however,
don’t have the ability (or the power) to question the validity of negative,
inappropriate messages that they receive about themselves. They tend to
believe anything that is said to them, especially by their families and peers.
Raising self-esteem takes a long time and is often a very difficult process.
Negative thoughts about ourselves, especially those that originated in
childhood and were reinforced by others during adolescence, are deeply
ingrained, and hard to dislodge. Nevertheless, the end result is worth any
amount of hard work.
<< I find it sad that you think I would do the same. Those who know me would
never think that for a second. >>
was written about:
<<My mom said "I'm not hurting you," regardless of my feelings and
statements. >>
So if he says in five or ten years "Yes, it did really make me feel bad that
you called me lazy, and always thought I was lazy and that I wasn't curious,"
THEN you'll stop?
Because then it will be too late.
Does HE see himself as lazy? Does he have much choice, if that is his name?
I think defining a child as lazy, insisting to a big list of unschoolers that
you KNOW he's lazy but that you don't really mind, and insisting that you
will continue to call him lazybones is as bad as pulling toes until they pop,
or tickling until kids cry.
No, I think it's worse. Because ticking and toe joints aren't a part of a
child's self image and of what they see as their potential and their
limitations.
Here are some other people's opinions on words as harmful:
A Jewish folktale, set in nineteenth century Eastern Europe, tells of a man
who went through a small community slandering the rabbi. One day, feeling
suddenly remorseful, he begged the rabbi for forgiveness and offered to
undergo any form of penance to make amends. The rabbi told him to take a
feather pillow from his home, cut it open, scatter the feathers to the wind.
The man did as he was told and returned to the rabbi. He asked, "Am I now
forgiven?"
"Almost," came the response. "You just have to perform one last task: Go and
gather all the feathers.
"B 栀愀猀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 猀挀愀琀琀攀爀攀搀 琀栀攀洀⸀∀缀∀倀爀攀挀椀猀攀氀礀Ⰰ∀ 琀栀攀 爀愀戀戀
椀 愀渀猀眀攀爀攀搀⸀ 缀缀吀栀攀 爀愀戀戀椀 椀渀 琀栀椀猀 猀琀漀爀礀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀猀 琀栀
愀琀 眀漀爀搀猀 搀攀昀椀渀攀 漀甀爀 瀀氀愀挀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀氀搀⸀ 伀渀挀攀 漀甀爀 瀀氀愀
挀攠ጀ椀渀 漀琀栀攀爀 眀漀爀搀猀Ⰰ 漀甀爀 爀攀瀀甀琀愀琀椀漀渠ጀ椀猀 搀攀昀椀渀攀搀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀
瘀攀爀礀 栀愀爀搀 琀漀 挀栀愀渀最攀Ⰰ 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀氀礀 椀昀 椀琀 椀猀 渀攀最愀琀椀瘀攀⸀
缀缀⠀瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 氀漀渀最攀爀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀Ⰰ 愀琀
http://www.church-at-home.org/editorial/wordsthathurt.html)
----------------
We all have negative echoes of the past, the unkind words said and the
insults hurled when we were small and defenseless. Those elements stored in
our psyche give their consent to someone putting us down. Abusers know it too
well. They try to make the abuse-victims believe that they are worthless and
deserve the treatment meted out to them. When victims buy that, they are
virtually trapped. They stop even trying to get out of the abuse situation.
If somebody says, "You are no good, or you are a worthless human being, " and
you say to yourself , "That's right! I am no good, I am worthless, " you have
bit the hook. When you endorse a negative label emotional upset, anger,
sadness, and hurt, are bound to follow.
http://www.mindpub.com/art102.htm
----------------------------------
the following is from an article on the connection between low self esteem
and chronic illness:
http://fibrofighter.tripod.com/29selfest.htm
To help pinpoint possible contributors to your feelings about your
self-worth, ask yourself these questions:
Is there anyone in your life right now who is feeding you negative,
inappropriate messages about yourself?
How do these messages make you feel?
What are you going to do about it?
What circumstances of your life have lowered your self-esteem and
self-confidence?
How valid were these circumstances as determinants of your worth?
No one has the right to offer information or opinions that might have lo
ng-term negative impacts on another’s self-esteem. Children, however,
don’t have the ability (or the power) to question the validity of negative,
inappropriate messages that they receive about themselves. They tend to
believe anything that is said to them, especially by their families and peers.
Raising self-esteem takes a long time and is often a very difficult process.
Negative thoughts about ourselves, especially those that originated in
childhood and were reinforced by others during adolescence, are deeply
ingrained, and hard to dislodge. Nevertheless, the end result is worth any
amount of hard work.
Myranda
OK, I'll bite, since this is turning into such a big thing. Why is the word "lazy" a negative word to you? Is it not possible for you to think that it may not be a negative, but a positive or even just an indifferent, word to others? If not, why not? What about other words? Don't you think there are words out there that mean totally different things to different people? Why shouldn't people have the freedom to look at words any way they want to?
I find it really odd that in a group of unschoolers, that it is not understandable that people may think of different words and phrases differently. It's ok for kids but not adults? Or it shouldn't be done at all? Other languages have different pronunciations to lend different tones to words, but we don't. In the absence of that, it should make perfect sense that the words hold different meanings for different people.
Myranda
<< I find it sad that you think I would do the same. Those who know me would
never think that for a second. >>
was written about:
<<My mom said "I'm not hurting you," regardless of my feelings and
statements. >>
So if he says in five or ten years "Yes, it did really make me feel bad that
you called me lazy, and always thought I was lazy and that I wasn't curious,"
THEN you'll stop?
Because then it will be too late.
Does HE see himself as lazy? Does he have much choice, if that is his name?
I think defining a child as lazy, insisting to a big list of unschoolers that
you KNOW he's lazy but that you don't really mind, and insisting that you
will continue to call him lazybones is as bad as pulling toes until they pop,
or tickling until kids cry.
No, I think it's worse. Because ticking and toe joints aren't a part of a
child's self image and of what they see as their potential and their
limitations.
Here are some other people's opinions on words as harmful:
A Jewish folktale, set in nineteenth century Eastern Europe, tells of a man
who went through a small community slandering the rabbi. One day, feeling
suddenly remorseful, he begged the rabbi for forgiveness and offered to
undergo any form of penance to make amends. The rabbi told him to take a
feather pillow from his home, cut it open, scatter the feathers to the wind.
The man did as he was told and returned to the rabbi. He asked, "Am I now
forgiven?"
"Almost," came the response. "You just have to perform one last task: Go and
gather all the feathers.
"B 栀愀猀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 猀挀愀琀琀攀爀攀搀 琀栀攀洀⸀∀缀∀倀爀攀挀椀猀攀氀礀Ⰰ∀ 琀栀攀 爀愀戀戀
椀 愀渀猀眀攀爀攀搀⸀ 缀缀吀栀攀 爀愀戀戀椀 椀渀 琀栀椀猀 猀琀漀爀礀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀猀 琀栀
愀琀 眀漀爀搀猀 搀攀昀椀渀攀 漀甀爀 瀀氀愀挀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀氀搀⸀ 伀渀挀攀 漀甀爀 瀀氀愀
挀攠ጀ椀渀 漀琀栀攀爀 眀漀爀搀猀Ⰰ 漀甀爀 爀攀瀀甀琀愀琀椀漀渠ጀ椀猀 搀攀昀椀渀攀搀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀
瘀攀爀礀 栀愀爀搀 琀漀 挀栀愀渀最攀Ⰰ 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀氀礀 椀昀 椀琀 椀猀 渀攀最愀琀椀瘀攀⸀
缀缀⠀瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 氀漀渀最攀爀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀Ⰰ 愀琀
http://www.church-at-home.org/editorial/wordsthathurt.html)
----------------
We all have negative echoes of the past, the unkind words said and the
insults hurled when we were small and defenseless. Those elements stored in
our psyche give their consent to someone putting us down. Abusers know it too
well. They try to make the abuse-victims believe that they are worthless and
deserve the treatment meted out to them. When victims buy that, they are
virtually trapped. They stop even trying to get out of the abuse situation.
If somebody says, "You are no good, or you are a worthless human being, " and
you say to yourself , "That's right! I am no good, I am worthless, " you have
bit the hook. When you endorse a negative label emotional upset, anger,
sadness, and hurt, are bound to follow.
http://www.mindpub.com/art102.htm
----------------------------------
the following is from an article on the connection between low self esteem
and chronic illness:
http://fibrofighter.tripod.com/29selfest.htm
To help pinpoint possible contributors to your feelings about your
self-worth, ask yourself these questions:
Is there anyone in your life right now who is feeding you negative,
inappropriate messages about yourself?
How do these messages make you feel?
What are you going to do about it?
What circumstances of your life have lowered your self-esteem and
self-confidence?
How valid were these circumstances as determinants of your worth?
No one has the right to offer information or opinions that might have lo
ng-term negative impacts on another’s self-esteem. Children, however,
don’t have the ability (or the power) to question the validity of negative,
inappropriate messages that they receive about themselves. They tend to
believe anything that is said to them, especially by their families and peers.
Raising self-esteem takes a long time and is often a very difficult process.
Negative thoughts about ourselves, especially those that originated in
childhood and were reinforced by others during adolescence, are deeply
ingrained, and hard to dislodge. Nevertheless, the end result is worth any
amount of hard work.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I find it really odd that in a group of unschoolers, that it is not understandable that people may think of different words and phrases differently. It's ok for kids but not adults? Or it shouldn't be done at all? Other languages have different pronunciations to lend different tones to words, but we don't. In the absence of that, it should make perfect sense that the words hold different meanings for different people.
Myranda
<< I find it sad that you think I would do the same. Those who know me would
never think that for a second. >>
was written about:
<<My mom said "I'm not hurting you," regardless of my feelings and
statements. >>
So if he says in five or ten years "Yes, it did really make me feel bad that
you called me lazy, and always thought I was lazy and that I wasn't curious,"
THEN you'll stop?
Because then it will be too late.
Does HE see himself as lazy? Does he have much choice, if that is his name?
I think defining a child as lazy, insisting to a big list of unschoolers that
you KNOW he's lazy but that you don't really mind, and insisting that you
will continue to call him lazybones is as bad as pulling toes until they pop,
or tickling until kids cry.
No, I think it's worse. Because ticking and toe joints aren't a part of a
child's self image and of what they see as their potential and their
limitations.
Here are some other people's opinions on words as harmful:
A Jewish folktale, set in nineteenth century Eastern Europe, tells of a man
who went through a small community slandering the rabbi. One day, feeling
suddenly remorseful, he begged the rabbi for forgiveness and offered to
undergo any form of penance to make amends. The rabbi told him to take a
feather pillow from his home, cut it open, scatter the feathers to the wind.
The man did as he was told and returned to the rabbi. He asked, "Am I now
forgiven?"
"Almost," came the response. "You just have to perform one last task: Go and
gather all the feathers.
"B 栀愀猀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 猀挀愀琀琀攀爀攀搀 琀栀攀洀⸀∀缀∀倀爀攀挀椀猀攀氀礀Ⰰ∀ 琀栀攀 爀愀戀戀
椀 愀渀猀眀攀爀攀搀⸀ 缀缀吀栀攀 爀愀戀戀椀 椀渀 琀栀椀猀 猀琀漀爀礀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀猀 琀栀
愀琀 眀漀爀搀猀 搀攀昀椀渀攀 漀甀爀 瀀氀愀挀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀氀搀⸀ 伀渀挀攀 漀甀爀 瀀氀愀
挀攠ጀ椀渀 漀琀栀攀爀 眀漀爀搀猀Ⰰ 漀甀爀 爀攀瀀甀琀愀琀椀漀渠ጀ椀猀 搀攀昀椀渀攀搀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀
瘀攀爀礀 栀愀爀搀 琀漀 挀栀愀渀最攀Ⰰ 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀氀礀 椀昀 椀琀 椀猀 渀攀最愀琀椀瘀攀⸀
缀缀⠀瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 氀漀渀最攀爀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀Ⰰ 愀琀
http://www.church-at-home.org/editorial/wordsthathurt.html)
----------------
We all have negative echoes of the past, the unkind words said and the
insults hurled when we were small and defenseless. Those elements stored in
our psyche give their consent to someone putting us down. Abusers know it too
well. They try to make the abuse-victims believe that they are worthless and
deserve the treatment meted out to them. When victims buy that, they are
virtually trapped. They stop even trying to get out of the abuse situation.
If somebody says, "You are no good, or you are a worthless human being, " and
you say to yourself , "That's right! I am no good, I am worthless, " you have
bit the hook. When you endorse a negative label emotional upset, anger,
sadness, and hurt, are bound to follow.
http://www.mindpub.com/art102.htm
----------------------------------
the following is from an article on the connection between low self esteem
and chronic illness:
http://fibrofighter.tripod.com/29selfest.htm
To help pinpoint possible contributors to your feelings about your
self-worth, ask yourself these questions:
Is there anyone in your life right now who is feeding you negative,
inappropriate messages about yourself?
How do these messages make you feel?
What are you going to do about it?
What circumstances of your life have lowered your self-esteem and
self-confidence?
How valid were these circumstances as determinants of your worth?
No one has the right to offer information or opinions that might have lo
ng-term negative impacts on another’s self-esteem. Children, however,
don’t have the ability (or the power) to question the validity of negative,
inappropriate messages that they receive about themselves. They tend to
believe anything that is said to them, especially by their families and peers.
Raising self-esteem takes a long time and is often a very difficult process.
Negative thoughts about ourselves, especially those that originated in
childhood and were reinforced by others during adolescence, are deeply
ingrained, and hard to dislodge. Nevertheless, the end result is worth any
amount of hard work.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/9/02 10:07:13 AM, myrandab@... writes:
<< OK, I'll bite, since this is turning into such a big thing. Why is the
word "lazy" a negative word to you? >>
It always has been.
<<Is it not possible for you to think that it may not be a negative, but a
positive or even just an indifferent, word to others? >>
No. Not positive in ANY way, and not 'indifferent' (by which I think you
mean neutral).
<<If not, why not?>>
Because I've spoken English 49 years, had a great interest in child
development and education since I was six, and played with dictionaries A LOT
since I bought my first one with my own money when I was nine. Nowhere in
any of that have I ever heard "lazy" in any good connotation except "lazy
river" or "lazy day," and uses of lazy rivers and lazy days go against much
of what is prized in our culture, which is hard work and diligence.
<<Don't you think there are words out there that mean totally different
things to different people? Why shouldn't people have the freedom to look at
words any way they want to? >>
Words are for communication, and you communicate real things when you write,
when you speak, and when you address or refer to people.
If I decide to call my couch a dog and ask people if they want to sit on my
dog, I won't be communicating well at all. Even if I tell them all that I
really think dog and couch are the same thing, they won't want to go along
with me about it.
<<I find it really odd that in a group of unschoolers, that it is not
understandable that people may think of different words and phrases
differently. It's ok for kids but not adults? Or it shouldn't be done at all?
Other languages have different pronunciations to lend different tones to
words, but we don't. In the absence of that, it should make perfect sense
that the words hold different meanings for different people. >>
That was nonsense. And by "nonsense," I mean it wasn't sensible
communication. It was noise made to cover over a disregard for and lack of
knowledge about language.
If you really want to say LA LA LA LA LA I AM NOT LISTENING
about people's suggestions about not calling your child lazy, then just
ignore it quietly, okay?
You will not write enough words to get people here to say "OH!!!!! THAT's
what you meant!! Then we agree that it will not harm your child in any way
for his mother to tell him and others that he is lacking in energy,
curiosity, and the natural desire to do and learn."
You won't win this one.
Even if you were to go far away and never think of this again (which isn't
likely to happen), name-calling is still harmful.
Sandra
<< OK, I'll bite, since this is turning into such a big thing. Why is the
word "lazy" a negative word to you? >>
It always has been.
<<Is it not possible for you to think that it may not be a negative, but a
positive or even just an indifferent, word to others? >>
No. Not positive in ANY way, and not 'indifferent' (by which I think you
mean neutral).
<<If not, why not?>>
Because I've spoken English 49 years, had a great interest in child
development and education since I was six, and played with dictionaries A LOT
since I bought my first one with my own money when I was nine. Nowhere in
any of that have I ever heard "lazy" in any good connotation except "lazy
river" or "lazy day," and uses of lazy rivers and lazy days go against much
of what is prized in our culture, which is hard work and diligence.
<<Don't you think there are words out there that mean totally different
things to different people? Why shouldn't people have the freedom to look at
words any way they want to? >>
Words are for communication, and you communicate real things when you write,
when you speak, and when you address or refer to people.
If I decide to call my couch a dog and ask people if they want to sit on my
dog, I won't be communicating well at all. Even if I tell them all that I
really think dog and couch are the same thing, they won't want to go along
with me about it.
<<I find it really odd that in a group of unschoolers, that it is not
understandable that people may think of different words and phrases
differently. It's ok for kids but not adults? Or it shouldn't be done at all?
Other languages have different pronunciations to lend different tones to
words, but we don't. In the absence of that, it should make perfect sense
that the words hold different meanings for different people. >>
That was nonsense. And by "nonsense," I mean it wasn't sensible
communication. It was noise made to cover over a disregard for and lack of
knowledge about language.
If you really want to say LA LA LA LA LA I AM NOT LISTENING
about people's suggestions about not calling your child lazy, then just
ignore it quietly, okay?
You will not write enough words to get people here to say "OH!!!!! THAT's
what you meant!! Then we agree that it will not harm your child in any way
for his mother to tell him and others that he is lacking in energy,
curiosity, and the natural desire to do and learn."
You won't win this one.
Even if you were to go far away and never think of this again (which isn't
likely to happen), name-calling is still harmful.
Sandra
Myranda
<< OK, I'll bite, since this is turning into such a big thing. Why is the
word "lazy" a negative word to you? >>
It always has been.
**OK. I'm sorry. It brings such a warm-happy-relaxed feeling to me.
<<Is it not possible for you to think that it may not be a negative, but a
positive or even just an indifferent, word to others? >>
No. Not positive in ANY way, and not 'indifferent' (by which I think you
mean neutral).
**Fair enough.
<<If not, why not?>>
Because I've spoken English 49 years, had a great interest in child
development and education since I was six, and played with dictionaries A LOT
since I bought my first one with my own money when I was nine. Nowhere in
any of that have I ever heard "lazy" in any good connotation except "lazy
river" or "lazy day," and uses of lazy rivers and lazy days go against much
of what is prized in our culture, which is hard work and diligence.
** Laziness (or vacation time or relaxation or other words like that) should be prized as well.
<<Don't you think there are words out there that mean totally different
things to different people? Why shouldn't people have the freedom to look at
words any way they want to? >>
Words are for communication, and you communicate real things when you write,
when you speak, and when you address or refer to people.
If I decide to call my couch a dog and ask people if they want to sit on my
dog, I won't be communicating well at all. Even if I tell them all that I
really think dog and couch are the same thing, they won't want to go along
with me about it.
** Hmmm. My kids love to make up names for things and call them by it. I encourage. We watch a box (tv), feed the furballs (cats), watch the sky cry (rain), etc.
<<I find it really odd that in a group of unschoolers, that it is not
understandable that people may think of different words and phrases
differently. It's ok for kids but not adults? Or it shouldn't be done at all?
Other languages have different pronunciations to lend different tones to
words, but we don't. In the absence of that, it should make perfect sense
that the words hold different meanings for different people. >>
That was nonsense. And by "nonsense," I mean it wasn't sensible
communication. It was noise made to cover over a disregard for and lack of
knowledge about language.
** Not hardly. I wouldn't waste my time or other's time. I look at words as things to play with, tools. Not the absolute, be all and end all to everything.
If you really want to say LA LA LA LA LA I AM NOT LISTENING
about people's suggestions about not calling your child lazy, then just
ignore it quietly, okay?
** Do not doubt that I would, if that is what I really wanted to say.
You will not write enough words to get people here to say "OH!!!!! THAT's
what you meant!! Then we agree that it will not harm your child in any way
for his mother to tell him and others that he is lacking in energy,
curiosity, and the natural desire to do and learn."
You won't win this one.
Even if you were to go far away and never think of this again (which isn't
likely to happen), name-calling is still harmful.
** I wasn't aware this was a battle to be won. There is no across-the-board right or wrong. It's our choice as a family (not just my choice) and that's as it should be. And, yes, name-calling is harmful, and I would never do that.
Myranda
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
word "lazy" a negative word to you? >>
It always has been.
**OK. I'm sorry. It brings such a warm-happy-relaxed feeling to me.
<<Is it not possible for you to think that it may not be a negative, but a
positive or even just an indifferent, word to others? >>
No. Not positive in ANY way, and not 'indifferent' (by which I think you
mean neutral).
**Fair enough.
<<If not, why not?>>
Because I've spoken English 49 years, had a great interest in child
development and education since I was six, and played with dictionaries A LOT
since I bought my first one with my own money when I was nine. Nowhere in
any of that have I ever heard "lazy" in any good connotation except "lazy
river" or "lazy day," and uses of lazy rivers and lazy days go against much
of what is prized in our culture, which is hard work and diligence.
** Laziness (or vacation time or relaxation or other words like that) should be prized as well.
<<Don't you think there are words out there that mean totally different
things to different people? Why shouldn't people have the freedom to look at
words any way they want to? >>
Words are for communication, and you communicate real things when you write,
when you speak, and when you address or refer to people.
If I decide to call my couch a dog and ask people if they want to sit on my
dog, I won't be communicating well at all. Even if I tell them all that I
really think dog and couch are the same thing, they won't want to go along
with me about it.
** Hmmm. My kids love to make up names for things and call them by it. I encourage. We watch a box (tv), feed the furballs (cats), watch the sky cry (rain), etc.
<<I find it really odd that in a group of unschoolers, that it is not
understandable that people may think of different words and phrases
differently. It's ok for kids but not adults? Or it shouldn't be done at all?
Other languages have different pronunciations to lend different tones to
words, but we don't. In the absence of that, it should make perfect sense
that the words hold different meanings for different people. >>
That was nonsense. And by "nonsense," I mean it wasn't sensible
communication. It was noise made to cover over a disregard for and lack of
knowledge about language.
** Not hardly. I wouldn't waste my time or other's time. I look at words as things to play with, tools. Not the absolute, be all and end all to everything.
If you really want to say LA LA LA LA LA I AM NOT LISTENING
about people's suggestions about not calling your child lazy, then just
ignore it quietly, okay?
** Do not doubt that I would, if that is what I really wanted to say.
You will not write enough words to get people here to say "OH!!!!! THAT's
what you meant!! Then we agree that it will not harm your child in any way
for his mother to tell him and others that he is lacking in energy,
curiosity, and the natural desire to do and learn."
You won't win this one.
Even if you were to go far away and never think of this again (which isn't
likely to happen), name-calling is still harmful.
** I wasn't aware this was a battle to be won. There is no across-the-board right or wrong. It's our choice as a family (not just my choice) and that's as it should be. And, yes, name-calling is harmful, and I would never do that.
Myranda
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/9/02 11:11:54 AM, myrandab@... writes:
<< ** Laziness (or vacation time or relaxation or other words like that)
should be prized as well. >>
See? There ARE other words!!!!
Someone who is lazy would be too lazy to get off the couch and go somewhere
else to relax.
<<I wasn't aware this was a battle to be won. There is no across-the-board
right or wrong. >>
If your child ends up harmed in the last way by your labelling him lazy,
there will have been a wrong done. By holding fast to your position, you
might end up hoping he is unharmed just so you will have been proven right,
instead of caring SO much about his future happiness that you don't use a
derogatory nickname.
Sandra
<< ** Laziness (or vacation time or relaxation or other words like that)
should be prized as well. >>
See? There ARE other words!!!!
Someone who is lazy would be too lazy to get off the couch and go somewhere
else to relax.
<<I wasn't aware this was a battle to be won. There is no across-the-board
right or wrong. >>
If your child ends up harmed in the last way by your labelling him lazy,
there will have been a wrong done. By holding fast to your position, you
might end up hoping he is unharmed just so you will have been proven right,
instead of caring SO much about his future happiness that you don't use a
derogatory nickname.
Sandra
Myranda
<< ** Laziness (or vacation time or relaxation or other words like that)
should be prized as well. >>
See? There ARE other words!!!!
Someone who is lazy would be too lazy to get off the couch and go somewhere
else to relax.
**Exactly! That's my son! He'd rather sit somewhere he's uncomfortable that get up and move somewhere else, just for the sake of getting more comfortable. There would have to be some other reason for him to move.
<<I wasn't aware this was a battle to be won. There is no across-the-board
right or wrong. >>
If your child ends up harmed in the last way by your labelling him lazy,
there will have been a wrong done. By holding fast to your position, you
might end up hoping he is unharmed just so you will have been proven right,
instead of caring SO much about his future happiness that you don't use a
derogatory nickname.
**Well, I may be wrong, but I'm not going to explain to my son that we're not going to be using one of his beloved nicknames any longer because he might, at some point in the future, decide he doesn't like it. Whenever he decides he doesn't like it, then we'll quit using it. He decided at age 3 he didn't like his "baby" nickname of Ty-bug, so we quit using that one. No harm done. Bug was not a label, it was a description - from the time he could crawl, he would follow patches of sunlight around the room, just like many bugs are drawn to light.
Myranda
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
should be prized as well. >>
See? There ARE other words!!!!
Someone who is lazy would be too lazy to get off the couch and go somewhere
else to relax.
**Exactly! That's my son! He'd rather sit somewhere he's uncomfortable that get up and move somewhere else, just for the sake of getting more comfortable. There would have to be some other reason for him to move.
<<I wasn't aware this was a battle to be won. There is no across-the-board
right or wrong. >>
If your child ends up harmed in the last way by your labelling him lazy,
there will have been a wrong done. By holding fast to your position, you
might end up hoping he is unharmed just so you will have been proven right,
instead of caring SO much about his future happiness that you don't use a
derogatory nickname.
**Well, I may be wrong, but I'm not going to explain to my son that we're not going to be using one of his beloved nicknames any longer because he might, at some point in the future, decide he doesn't like it. Whenever he decides he doesn't like it, then we'll quit using it. He decided at age 3 he didn't like his "baby" nickname of Ty-bug, so we quit using that one. No harm done. Bug was not a label, it was a description - from the time he could crawl, he would follow patches of sunlight around the room, just like many bugs are drawn to light.
Myranda
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Myranda,
I'm just wondering if you can see that even if you feel warm fuzzies when you say or hear lazy, your son might not. Even if he laughs or looks happy,
You say that you havn't called him lazy, but yet you've said lazy-bones. Have you asked him if he likes those names? I don't know, just maybe get his take on it.
I'm just trying to help because my brother, who is 47, is just now coming to my mother with things that bothered him. He never realized how much her little comments affected him. And she never out in out insulted him or anything but just the way she and my dad treated us growing up. The whole shame thing.
Its just amazing what children can absorb even if we don't say it.
Kelli
Myranda wrote:
<< OK, I'll bite, since this is turning into such a big thing. Why is the
word "lazy" a negative word to you? >>
It always has been.
**OK. I'm sorry. It brings such a warm-happy-relaxed feeling to me.
<<Is it not possible for you to think that it may not be a negative, but a
positive or even just an indifferent, word to others? >>
No. Not positive in ANY way, and not 'indifferent' (by which I think you
mean neutral).
**Fair enough.
<<If not, why not?>>
Because I've spoken English 49 years, had a great interest in child
development and education since I was six, and played with dictionaries A LOT
since I bought my first one with my own money when I was nine. Nowhere in
any of that have I ever heard "lazy" in any good connotation except "lazy
river" or "lazy day," and uses of lazy rivers and lazy days go against much
of what is prized in our culture, which is hard work and diligence.
** Laziness (or vacation time or relaxation or other words like that) should be prized as well.
<<Don't you think there are words out there that mean totally different
things to different people? Why shouldn't people have the freedom to look at
words any way they want to? >>
Words are for communication, and you communicate real things when you write,
when you speak, and when you address or refer to people.
If I decide to call my couch a dog and ask people if they want to sit on my
dog, I won't be communicating well at all. Even if I tell them all that I
really think dog and couch are the same thing, they won't want to go along
with me about it.
** Hmmm. My kids love to make up names for things and call them by it. I encourage. We watch a box (tv), feed the furballs (cats), watch the sky cry (rain), etc.
<<I find it really odd that in a group of unschoolers, that it is not
understandable that people may think of different words and phrases
differently. It's ok for kids but not adults? Or it shouldn't be done at all?
Other languages have different pronunciations to lend different tones to
words, but we don't. In the absence of that, it should make perfect sense
that the words hold different meanings for different people. >>
That was nonsense. And by "nonsense," I mean it wasn't sensible
communication. It was noise made to cover over a disregard for and lack of
knowledge about language.
** Not hardly. I wouldn't waste my time or other's time. I look at words as things to play with, tools. Not the absolute, be all and end all to everything.
If you really want to say LA LA LA LA LA I AM NOT LISTENING
about people's suggestions about not calling your child lazy, then just
ignore it quietly, okay?
** Do not doubt that I would, if that is what I really wanted to say.
You will not write enough words to get people here to say "OH!!!!! THAT's
what you meant!! Then we agree that it will not harm your child in any way
for his mother to tell him and others that he is lacking in energy,
curiosity, and the natural desire to do and learn."
You won't win this one.
Even if you were to go far away and never think of this again (which isn't
likely to happen), name-calling is still harmful.
** I wasn't aware this was a battle to be won. There is no across-the-board right or wrong. It's our choice as a family (not just my choice) and that's as it should be. And, yes, name-calling is harmful, and I would never do that.
Myranda
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm just wondering if you can see that even if you feel warm fuzzies when you say or hear lazy, your son might not. Even if he laughs or looks happy,
You say that you havn't called him lazy, but yet you've said lazy-bones. Have you asked him if he likes those names? I don't know, just maybe get his take on it.
I'm just trying to help because my brother, who is 47, is just now coming to my mother with things that bothered him. He never realized how much her little comments affected him. And she never out in out insulted him or anything but just the way she and my dad treated us growing up. The whole shame thing.
Its just amazing what children can absorb even if we don't say it.
Kelli
Myranda wrote:
<< OK, I'll bite, since this is turning into such a big thing. Why is the
word "lazy" a negative word to you? >>
It always has been.
**OK. I'm sorry. It brings such a warm-happy-relaxed feeling to me.
<<Is it not possible for you to think that it may not be a negative, but a
positive or even just an indifferent, word to others? >>
No. Not positive in ANY way, and not 'indifferent' (by which I think you
mean neutral).
**Fair enough.
<<If not, why not?>>
Because I've spoken English 49 years, had a great interest in child
development and education since I was six, and played with dictionaries A LOT
since I bought my first one with my own money when I was nine. Nowhere in
any of that have I ever heard "lazy" in any good connotation except "lazy
river" or "lazy day," and uses of lazy rivers and lazy days go against much
of what is prized in our culture, which is hard work and diligence.
** Laziness (or vacation time or relaxation or other words like that) should be prized as well.
<<Don't you think there are words out there that mean totally different
things to different people? Why shouldn't people have the freedom to look at
words any way they want to? >>
Words are for communication, and you communicate real things when you write,
when you speak, and when you address or refer to people.
If I decide to call my couch a dog and ask people if they want to sit on my
dog, I won't be communicating well at all. Even if I tell them all that I
really think dog and couch are the same thing, they won't want to go along
with me about it.
** Hmmm. My kids love to make up names for things and call them by it. I encourage. We watch a box (tv), feed the furballs (cats), watch the sky cry (rain), etc.
<<I find it really odd that in a group of unschoolers, that it is not
understandable that people may think of different words and phrases
differently. It's ok for kids but not adults? Or it shouldn't be done at all?
Other languages have different pronunciations to lend different tones to
words, but we don't. In the absence of that, it should make perfect sense
that the words hold different meanings for different people. >>
That was nonsense. And by "nonsense," I mean it wasn't sensible
communication. It was noise made to cover over a disregard for and lack of
knowledge about language.
** Not hardly. I wouldn't waste my time or other's time. I look at words as things to play with, tools. Not the absolute, be all and end all to everything.
If you really want to say LA LA LA LA LA I AM NOT LISTENING
about people's suggestions about not calling your child lazy, then just
ignore it quietly, okay?
** Do not doubt that I would, if that is what I really wanted to say.
You will not write enough words to get people here to say "OH!!!!! THAT's
what you meant!! Then we agree that it will not harm your child in any way
for his mother to tell him and others that he is lacking in energy,
curiosity, and the natural desire to do and learn."
You won't win this one.
Even if you were to go far away and never think of this again (which isn't
likely to happen), name-calling is still harmful.
** I wasn't aware this was a battle to be won. There is no across-the-board right or wrong. It's our choice as a family (not just my choice) and that's as it should be. And, yes, name-calling is harmful, and I would never do that.
Myranda
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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---------------------------------
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faith.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Hi Kelli,
Yes, of course, I have asked him. I wouldn't call anyone anything without first making sure it was ok with them. It was his idea for it to be his nickname (among a few others), and he will not hesitate to remind us to call him that if we haven't used it in a few days or a week. Like I said, we all love our nicknames and we all use them regularly.
I have a lot of problems with things my mom said and did when I was growing up, too. The biggest was that no matter who she saw, she would think of some way to put them down, make a rude comment about them, etc. It's made me always look for something good to say/think about everyone.
Myranda
Myranda,
I'm just wondering if you can see that even if you feel warm fuzzies when you say or hear lazy, your son might not. Even if he laughs or looks happy,
You say that you havn't called him lazy, but yet you've said lazy-bones. Have you asked him if he likes those names? I don't know, just maybe get his take on it.
I'm just trying to help because my brother, who is 47, is just now coming to my mother with things that bothered him. He never realized how much her little comments affected him. And she never out in out insulted him or anything but just the way she and my dad treated us growing up. The whole shame thing.
Its just amazing what children can absorb even if we don't say it.
Kelli
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes, of course, I have asked him. I wouldn't call anyone anything without first making sure it was ok with them. It was his idea for it to be his nickname (among a few others), and he will not hesitate to remind us to call him that if we haven't used it in a few days or a week. Like I said, we all love our nicknames and we all use them regularly.
I have a lot of problems with things my mom said and did when I was growing up, too. The biggest was that no matter who she saw, she would think of some way to put them down, make a rude comment about them, etc. It's made me always look for something good to say/think about everyone.
Myranda
Myranda,
I'm just wondering if you can see that even if you feel warm fuzzies when you say or hear lazy, your son might not. Even if he laughs or looks happy,
You say that you havn't called him lazy, but yet you've said lazy-bones. Have you asked him if he likes those names? I don't know, just maybe get his take on it.
I'm just trying to help because my brother, who is 47, is just now coming to my mother with things that bothered him. He never realized how much her little comments affected him. And she never out in out insulted him or anything but just the way she and my dad treated us growing up. The whole shame thing.
Its just amazing what children can absorb even if we don't say it.
Kelli
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
See, I never would have thought to ask my kids that until I started thinking in the unschooling parenting style.
I'll shut up now,
Kelli
Myranda wrote:Hi Kelli,
Yes, of course, I have asked him. I wouldn't call anyone anything without first making sure it was ok with them. It was his idea for it to be his nickname (among a few others), and he will not hesitate to remind us to call him that if we haven't used it in a few days or a week. Like I said, we all love our nicknames and we all use them regularly.
I have a lot of problems with things my mom said and did when I was growing up, too. The biggest was that no matter who she saw, she would think of some way to put them down, make a rude comment about them, etc. It's made me always look for something good to say/think about everyone.
Myranda
Myranda,
I'm just wondering if you can see that even if you feel warm fuzzies when you say or hear lazy, your son might not. Even if he laughs or looks happy,
You say that you havn't called him lazy, but yet you've said lazy-bones. Have you asked him if he likes those names? I don't know, just maybe get his take on it.
I'm just trying to help because my brother, who is 47, is just now coming to my mother with things that bothered him. He never realized how much her little comments affected him. And she never out in out insulted him or anything but just the way she and my dad treated us growing up. The whole shame thing.
Its just amazing what children can absorb even if we don't say it.
Kelli
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'll shut up now,
Kelli
Myranda wrote:Hi Kelli,
Yes, of course, I have asked him. I wouldn't call anyone anything without first making sure it was ok with them. It was his idea for it to be his nickname (among a few others), and he will not hesitate to remind us to call him that if we haven't used it in a few days or a week. Like I said, we all love our nicknames and we all use them regularly.
I have a lot of problems with things my mom said and did when I was growing up, too. The biggest was that no matter who she saw, she would think of some way to put them down, make a rude comment about them, etc. It's made me always look for something good to say/think about everyone.
Myranda
Myranda,
I'm just wondering if you can see that even if you feel warm fuzzies when you say or hear lazy, your son might not. Even if he laughs or looks happy,
You say that you havn't called him lazy, but yet you've said lazy-bones. Have you asked him if he likes those names? I don't know, just maybe get his take on it.
I'm just trying to help because my brother, who is 47, is just now coming to my mother with things that bothered him. He never realized how much her little comments affected him. And she never out in out insulted him or anything but just the way she and my dad treated us growing up. The whole shame thing.
Its just amazing what children can absorb even if we don't say it.
Kelli
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Myranda
Really? I thought it'd be more of a parenting thing than an unschooling thing. But then again, I guess you could say we've been unschooling since our first son was born over 7 years ago, and the line between the two gets blurry after a time! LOL
Myranda
See, I never would have thought to ask my kids that until I started thinking in the unschooling parenting style.
I'll shut up now,
Kelli
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Myranda
See, I never would have thought to ask my kids that until I started thinking in the unschooling parenting style.
I'll shut up now,
Kelli
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